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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #4

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Who should OP the next Military Realism Consultation Thread?

Imperializt Russia
59
60%
The Kievan People
21
21%
Velkanika
8
8%
Vitaphone Racing
11
11%
 
Total votes : 99

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Horizont
Senator
 
Posts: 3539
Founded: Jun 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:19 am

Updated the map. This now needs significantly more stations, but oh well; that's no problem.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Posts: 25020
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:31 am

Horizont wrote:Updated the map. This now needs significantly more stations, but oh well; that's no problem.

This is so open to defeat in detail it's not even funny. What's wrong with having a navy instead of this multitrillion dollar system that has dozens or more visible gaps?

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Horizont
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Founded: Jun 10, 2013
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Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:34 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Horizont wrote:Updated the map. This now needs significantly more stations, but oh well; that's no problem.

This is so open to defeat in detail it's not even funny. What's wrong with having a navy instead of this multitrillion dollar system that has dozens or more visible gaps?


I do have a strong navy; this system complements it. Why, what faults can you see in it?

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:43 am

The fact that the costs of building and maintaining this in an environment where petrol freezes solid every six months is more than you can handle, and yet grant you this powerful navy.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:31 am

Oaledonia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:For the sake of sanity I pray that those full stops mean a separation of the different things into ideas that are not at all connected.

I don't know, I'm feeling pretty :NS:ified right now.

Sonar aside, many detection methods aren't especially effective underwater. Hence why torpedoes are still guided by wires.
Inyourfaceistan wrote:
United States of PA wrote:
Classified?

Honestly i doubt anyone can give you a remotely accurate answer. It all comes down to variables of like how powerful is your own radars/the enemy's radar, how far they are etc.


Alright, I'm just wondering how close I have to get to an enemy ship to jam it in support of an advancing missile attack.

Use a number of nuclear-tipped AShMs on its surface group, followed up by the killer missile attack.
Canuckland wrote:How would a missile battleship do? Like a longer destroyer, with three times as many missiles or something. I'm just wondering. I'm not actually planning to do something like this, I'm just curious.

It offers you more missiles than you likely need, and gives you a significantly larger and more expensive warship to lose to attack.
Even Kirov is frankly needlessly oversized (though that's largely because it has nuclear and conventional propulsion).
Horizont wrote:So, I have a system (called RADIT: RAdio/RAdar Detection, Interception and Tracking) that I use to perform surveillence of my territorial waters. It consists of several stations that can detect radio signals in a certain radius around them, which I'm pretty sure is possible.

Now, what could the enemy do (apart from not use radar and maintai radio silence) against this system, and what measures could I take against that?

They could launch anti-radiation missiles at your facilities to kill the radar emitters and receivers very accurately.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Regnum Albion
Diplomat
 
Posts: 725
Founded: Jun 11, 2011
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Postby Regnum Albion » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:18 am

May I ask if this table of organisation and equipment is realistic? My main concern is the ratios of personnel to equipment. I appreciate that it's fairly detailed, so thank you for taking the time to go through it.

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Connori Pilgrims
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1794
Founded: Nov 14, 2012
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Connori Pilgrims » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:31 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Canuckland wrote:How would a missile battleship do? Like a longer destroyer, with three times as many missiles or something. I'm just wondering. I'm not actually planning to do something like this, I'm just curious.

It offers you more missiles than you likely need, and gives you a significantly larger and more expensive warship to lose to attack.
Even Kirov is frankly needlessly oversized (though that's largely because it has nuclear and conventional propulsion).


It only offers "more than you'll likely need" in an IRL warfare scenario where there are not many targets to actually expend on. It does have its use in a full fleet battle (especially one in NSTM) where saturation (aka lots of missiles) will be needed.

Doesn't deny though that it is a larger and more expensive thing to lose; also unless you will always be involved in NSTM fleet battles, such a missile battleship (which is really just an oversized cruiser) will likely not see much use (unless you're the kind of guy to use sledgehammers on ants).
LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR YOU. HATE.

Overview of the United Provinces of Connorianople (MT)
FT - United Worlds of Connorianople/The Connori Pilgrims
MT-PMT - United Provinces of Connorianople
PT (19th-Mid-20th Century) - Republic of Connorianople/United States of America (1939 World of Tomorrow RP)
FanT - The Imperium Fremen

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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:35 am

"Full fleet battles" is what the Soviets built nuclear-tipped AShMs for and salvo-fired them.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Horizont
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Posts: 3539
Founded: Jun 10, 2013
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Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:11 am

How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.
Last edited by Horizont on Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:16 am

Horizont wrote:How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.

Difficult to say. Note that Tsar Bomba's 50Mt yield was attained with an inactive lead third-stage in place.
Neutron bombs generate roughly 50% of their yield as high energy neutrons, so it'd probably have the blast and heat effects of a 25Mt weapon.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Horizont
Senator
 
Posts: 3539
Founded: Jun 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:18 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Horizont wrote:How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.

Difficult to say. Note that Tsar Bomba's 50Mt yield was attained with an inactive lead third-stage in place.
Neutron bombs generate roughly 50% of their yield as high energy neutrons, so it'd probably have the blast and heat effects of a 25Mt weapon.


What about fallout? It's particularly the radiation I'm interested in.

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65248
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:18 am

Horizont wrote:How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.


"I am just asking, because my neighbor is building neutron bomb. I've nothing to do with it"
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Horizont
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Posts: 3539
Founded: Jun 10, 2013
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Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:19 am

Immoren wrote:
Horizont wrote:How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.


"I am just asking, because my neighbor is building neutron bomb. I've nothing to do with it"


Well, I've got a friend of a friend who's building a Neutron Bomb...

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The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:20 am

Regnum Albion wrote:May I ask if this table of organisation and equipment is realistic? My main concern is the ratios of personnel to equipment. I appreciate that it's fairly detailed, so thank you for taking the time to go through it.


A lot of those battalions are far too big.

Third Battalion (Infantry): 2000 infantry personnel; 100 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ APCs; 70 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ IFVs; 10 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ ATGM Systems; 15 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ Mobile Guns; 7 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ Ambulances; 1 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ Command and Signals System; 30 ‘Pseudonaja’ Protected Mobility Vehicles.


This for example is basically a regiment or a brigade.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65248
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:21 am

Horizont wrote:
Immoren wrote:
"I am just asking, because my neighbor is building neutron bomb. I've nothing to do with it"


Well, I've got a friend of a friend who's building a Neutron Bomb...


Reminds me of school.
"Can I do this?/Is this sensible or legal thing to do? Not me, but because my neighbor is going to do that." :P
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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Regnum Albion
Diplomat
 
Posts: 725
Founded: Jun 11, 2011
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Postby Regnum Albion » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:23 am

The Kievan People wrote:
Regnum Albion wrote:May I ask if this table of organisation and equipment is realistic? My main concern is the ratios of personnel to equipment. I appreciate that it's fairly detailed, so thank you for taking the time to go through it.


A lot of those battalions are far too big.

Third Battalion (Infantry): 2000 infantry personnel; 100 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ APCs; 70 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ IFVs; 10 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ ATGM Systems; 15 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ Mobile Guns; 7 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ Ambulances; 1 LY219 ‘Ironheart’ Command and Signals System; 30 ‘Pseudonaja’ Protected Mobility Vehicles.


This for example is basically a regiment or a brigade.


Thank you for the response. So should I separate the Divisions into more Brigades, or simply add more Battalions to the Brigades?

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The Kievan People
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Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
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Postby The Kievan People » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:24 am

Horizont wrote:How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.


It would be basically worthless. Neutrons are attenuated rapidly by the atmosphere, and a massive increase in yield does not lead to a massive increase in the area of effect.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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Horizont
Senator
 
Posts: 3539
Founded: Jun 10, 2013
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Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:25 am

The Kievan People wrote:
Horizont wrote:How destructive would a Neutron Bomb the size of the Tsar Bomba (50MT) be? And what would be the best height at which to detonate it to cause maximum damage?

Just out of interest, btw.


It would be basically worthless. Neutrons are attenuated rapidly by the atmosphere, and a massive increase in yield does not lead to a massive increase in the area of effect.


I see. What kind of weapon would be best if I want to create the highest amount of fallout possible?

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65248
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:28 am

Regnum Albion wrote:
The Kievan People wrote:
A lot of those battalions are far too big.



This for example is basically a regiment or a brigade.


Thank you for the response. So should I separate the Divisions into more Brigades, or simply add more Battalions to the Brigades?


Separated into more brigades and reduce number of personnel in battalions so that they've up to 500-750 persons.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:30 am

Regnum Albion wrote:Thank you for the response. So should I separate the Divisions into more Brigades, or simply add more Battalions to the Brigades?


You need more divisions. A lot more divisions. Maybe four times as many.

Your divisions already have an exceptionally larger number of brigades, and your brigades an exceptionally large number of battalions (which are in turn exceptionally large).
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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Regnum Albion
Diplomat
 
Posts: 725
Founded: Jun 11, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Regnum Albion » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:31 am

Immoren wrote:Separated into more brigades and reduce number of personnel in battalions so that they've up to 500-750 persons.


Should I also reduce the number of vehicles by the same ratio, in that case?

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65248
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:32 am

Regnum Albion wrote:
Immoren wrote:Separated into more brigades and reduce number of personnel in battalions so that they've up to 500-750 persons.


Should I also reduce the number of vehicles by the same ratio, in that case?


Yes.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

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The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:32 am

Horizont wrote:I see. What kind of weapon would be best if I want to create the highest amount of fallout possible?


A good old fission bomb is what you want. Detonated on the ground.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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Horizont
Senator
 
Posts: 3539
Founded: Jun 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Horizont » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:35 am

The Kievan People wrote:
Horizont wrote:I see. What kind of weapon would be best if I want to create the highest amount of fallout possible?


A good old fission bomb is what you want. Detonated on the ground.


Just fission? No fusion, right?

Would making it a cobalt bomb release more than usual?

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The Kievan People
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11387
Founded: Jul 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kievan People » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:43 am

Cobalt bombs may not even work.

I've never entirely understood the appeal of fallout generating weapons, seems like a waste of perfectly good bomb material to me, but for that purpose fissions bombs work extremely well. The ideal bomb would probably be a hypothetical two-stage fission device (large fission device triggered by a smaller fission device the same way a the fusion device in thermonuclear weapons are triggered) but its not certain if one of these has ever even been built.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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