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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #4

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Who should OP the next Military Realism Consultation Thread?

Imperializt Russia
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60%
The Kievan People
21
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Velkanika
8
8%
Vitaphone Racing
11
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Total votes : 99

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The Akasha Colony
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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #4

Postby The Akasha Colony » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:17 am

This thread is devoted to the presentation and discussion of military technology, tactics and concepts in a realistic setting, as well as the development, deployment and discussion of general military technology. Images are welcome, though we ask that excessively large images (to be determined at presentation) be spoiler'd.

Please keep in mind: If you post a design or concept here, you automatically accept that it may, nay will, be criticized. You do not have to agree to accept the criticism and act on it but you forfeited the right to whine about it when you posted. Such is the nature of a public forum. Further, players are encouraged to ask questions, and answer questions to the best of their ability. The adage "Better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" is apt. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post. If you don't know, ask. Someone will tell you. Try to learn from what the more experienced players have to say, and use that knowledge to improve your understanding. As always, to the veterans, this is not an excuse to flame, troll or otherwise act in an insulting way towards posters. Finally, while some people believe there "is no such thing as a stupid question", posts which are judged by moderation to be made with the express intent to anger, upset or other wise piss off the regular posters of the thread will be treated as trolling.

Useful links to basic concepts will be added to this OP from time to time, but for now, a FAQ:

Frequently Asked Questions

  • How big should my military be?
    Before you just fire off that question in this thread, think about a few things, namely what the military's strategic role is supposed to be and how you plan to use it. A small home defense force not expected to be deployed will need fewer men and less money than a big expeditionary military or an enemy-at-the-gates Israel-like mmilitary. It seems common to compare militaries as a percentage of population, so it should be pointed out that in real-life, nations with a military population greater than 1% are exceptionally rare. In fact, out of the top six defense spenders globally, only one (Russia) has an active-duty strength greater than 0.5% of the population, and it's still well short of 1%. Of course, this is still NS, so there's a bit more latitude, but for a nation that expects to have a functioning economy, 2-3% is the limit for a standing military in peacetime. It can surge further in war time when economics are a bit more flexible, but otherwise, keep it reasonable.
  • Should I model my military after Israel? I hear they're badass!
    They are. But unless your strategic situation is like Israel's, there's no point. And by strategic situation I mean surrounded by angry neighbors who'd like nothing better than to wipe you off the face of the planet if they could and supported by a global superpower that showers money and defense contracts to support a military beyond your means. Israel's military is geared toward a very specific type of conflict, and it is not a good model for a general-purpose expeditionary military like many prefer to have on NS.
  • Is [x] concept a good idea?
    First, stop and ask yourself 'Has anyone thought of this before?' If the answer is yes, ask yourself why it's not common today. Why have centuries of engineers, theorists, strategists, tacticians, and politicians not considered it a good idea themselves? Has anything changed to suddenly make this idea practical when it wasn't before? Does it seem too good to be true?
    Could another nation use this idea? Generally speaking, whatever one nation can develop it can be reasonably expected another nation can develop the same general concept. How effective would it be if they developed it? If it seems like something only your nation can use for some reason, there's likely something wrong with it.
    Could anything go wrong? Does it pass the grin test? Put perhaps a bit more simply,
    Purpelia wrote:When looking at Wikipedia for fun stuff to use look at things that were a success. Not at things that were abandoned.

Finally, at page 450 (or thereabouts) the OP will take nominations for the creator of the next thread. Up to 10 nominations will be accepted. Players will use the following format to nominate a player. Nominations will close at page 460 or thereabouts and voting will begin. You may not nominate yourself....because I said so

Kouralia wrote:
Code: Select all
[size=120]This is my Nomination.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.[/size]
[b]Nominee:[/b]


You must use this template to make a vote: if you don't, no one's going to bother trawling through pages when they can't search for your vote.


Beyond that, let the discussion begin.

Previous Threads:
Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Last edited by The Akasha Colony on Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anemos Major
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Postby Anemos Major » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:25 am

can I into AMX-13 style tank divisions

Image

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Galla-
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Postby Galla- » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:27 am

Anemos Major wrote:can I into AMX-13 style tank divisions

(Image)


no skirts

weak

drive me closer, i want to hit them with my plasma lance
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Crookfur
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Postby Crookfur » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:28 am

How much haggis and condensed milk should there be in the Crookfur 24hr ration pack.


it does actually concern me that almost nobody seems to issue condensed milk in their ration packs/MREs on NS. The sweet sickly stuff too distinctly british?
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Anemos Major
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Postby Anemos Major » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:49 am

Anemos Major wrote:can I into AMX-13 style tank divisions

(Image)


fixed

Image

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Themiclesia
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Postby Themiclesia » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:22 am

Here's my flagship... still in use... ceremonially...

HMS Cotton Candy

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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:40 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TCJIpUjW2M

Woah.

This stuff really is impressive. Glad I covered my tank in it. :lol:
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Lubyak
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Postby Lubyak » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:50 am

Reposting for new thread.
Lubyak wrote:As a question, in my current doctrine, I have separate 'battle armour' and 'exploitation armour' divisions, each of which are equipped with different vehicles. Battle Armour divisions are equipped with heavier vehicles, prioritising protection and firepower over range and reliability. Exploitation Armour divisions are equipped more with lighter vehicles that prioritise range and reliability. Of course each formation isn't solely equipped with their respective vehicles, but they definitely have more of them.

Using Soviet operations as an example, the current plan would be for the battle armour divisions to make up the first echelon of forces, while exploitation armour would be kept in the second echelon and manuver groups. The idea would be that the battle armour engages and destroys enemy forces, thus clearing the path for the exploitation armour to pass through and begin seeking out and destroying hostile C&C facilities, logistics, and other Line of communications things.

Does this plan seem practical? One flaw I could see is that the two different types of vehicle would increase logistical strain...but I'm hoping that specializing the vehicles would increase combat efficiency enough to make up for the more difficult logistics.

Lubyak wrote:
The Kievan People wrote:
More concerning would be what happens if you end up with the divisions in the wrong place. You will need to cut weight if you want to boost operational mobility significantly, and that just about requires cutting KE protection, probably below what most tanks can throw at it. This does not augur well if a division heavy in such tanks is confronted with a real defense.


This is true, but it might be a sacrifice my military decided was worth making and why an exploitation division is still going to have one of its armoured regiments be battle armour. Not to mention, IIRC, ERA has begun to be able to stop KEPs, no? It might not be perfect, but it's something.

The overall logic might well be that it's impossible to have enough armour to defend the tank against KE rounds while still being mobile enough to properly exploit, so why even try beyond stuff like ERA? I'm imagining a little that on the more tactical level, the 'battle armour regiment in an exploitation armour division would be broken up and individual battalions assigned to the exploitation armour regiments in order to stiffen them somewhat if there is a significant threat of encountering enemy armour.
Last edited by Lubyak on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Elan Valleys
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Postby Elan Valleys » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:56 am

Crookfur wrote:How much haggis and condensed milk should there be in the Crookfur 24hr ration pack.


it does actually concern me that almost nobody seems to issue condensed milk in their ration packs/MREs on NS. The sweet sickly stuff too distinctly british?

Condensed milk, no. Too sickly.

Haggis is however issued in Elan Valleys rations.


You also seem a good person to ask: Could I replace the 6x .50 in the P-40E Kittyhawk with 4x 20mm Hispanos? It seems it's only an extra 10 kilos, but would ammo size/weight be to different??
Last edited by Elan Valleys on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Albynia
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Postby Albynia » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:17 am

Elan Valleys wrote:You also seem a good person to ask: Could I replace the 6x .50 in the P-40E Kittyhawk with 4x 20mm Hispanos? It seems it's only an extra 10 kilos, but would ammo size/weight be to different??


Plausible, there were some Hurricanes that swapped out x8 .303 machine guns for x4 Hispanos.

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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:21 am

Crookfur wrote:How much haggis and condensed milk should there be in the Crookfur 24hr ration pack.


it does actually concern me that almost nobody seems to issue condensed milk in their ration packs/MREs on NS. The sweet sickly stuff too distinctly british?

Condensed/powdered milk seems to be a staple ingredient of chocolate milks.
Since I've developed a ludicrous taste for the stuff over the last couple of weeks, I might give ration packs more thought than "just Russia's".
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Central and Eastern Visayas
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Postby Central and Eastern Visayas » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:27 am

Anyone have any idea what the Flight III Burkes would be kitted out with, or do I assume no different from the Flight IIA?
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:29 am

The Kievan People wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TCJIpUjW2M

Woah.

This stuff really is impressive. Glad I covered my tank in it. :lol:

Enter, 3BK-31?
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:31 am

this is interest to my relevant
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:31 am

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:
Crookfur wrote:How much haggis and condensed milk should there be in the Crookfur 24hr ration pack.


it does actually concern me that almost nobody seems to issue condensed milk in their ration packs/MREs on NS. The sweet sickly stuff too distinctly british?

Condensed/powdered milk seems to be a staple ingredient of chocolate milks.
Since I've developed a ludicrous taste for the stuff over the last couple of weeks, I might give ration packs more thought than "just Russia's".

I just star eating the chocolate milk powder, tastes great bothers my friends. And I should probably think more on my ration packs to.

Fist page thought experiment: making a amphibious assault ship for use with ground effect craft? How would you do it? I'm talking about medium to small stuff, not the FULL RUSSIAN big stuff.
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:34 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Samozaryadnyastan wrote:Condensed/powdered milk seems to be a staple ingredient of chocolate milks.
Since I've developed a ludicrous taste for the stuff over the last couple of weeks, I might give ration packs more thought than "just Russia's".

I just star eating the chocolate milk powder, tastes great bothers my friends. And I should probably think more on my ration packs to.

Fist page thought experiment: making a amphibious assault ship for use with ground effect craft? How would you do it? I'm talking about medium to small stuff, not the FULL RUSSIAN big stuff.

I reckon ekranoplans are pretty niche and only work well if you Go Big or Go Home.

Personally, I'd ram my amphibious assault carrier with hovercraft.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:42 am

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:I just star eating the chocolate milk powder, tastes great bothers my friends. And I should probably think more on my ration packs to.

Fist page thought experiment: making a amphibious assault ship for use with ground effect craft? How would you do it? I'm talking about medium to small stuff, not the FULL RUSSIAN big stuff.

I reckon ekranoplans are pretty niche and only work well if you Go Big or Go Home.

Personally, I'd ram my amphibious assault carrier with hovercraft.


I was thinking 50-150 man sized vehicles. Might not be able to carry the same amount of equipment, but they would be faster and more stable than a hovercraft. Speed deploy infantry while the heavier elements come in more slowly.
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:43 am

If you're not using your Amphibious Assault Carrier to land armoured platoons, what are you using them for?
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Central and Eastern Visayas
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Postby Central and Eastern Visayas » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:48 am

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:If you're not using your Amphibious Assault Carrier to land armoured platoons, what are you using them for?

If I were to guess, as a light carrier a la the America-class.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:51 am

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:If you're not using your Amphibious Assault Carrier to land armoured platoons, what are you using them for?

Landing the infantry first so that they can secure the beach head, using a fast means of transportation. You could even probably fit an APC into a 150 man version. This would be working with more traditional landing systems.
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The IASM
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Postby The IASM » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:07 am

Hmmm, new thread smell.
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New Vihenia
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Postby New Vihenia » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:34 am

oh new thread..i'll get something in later.
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Ea90
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Postby Ea90 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:42 am

@Lubyak: it could work, but I doubt it would work well enough to make up for the logistical worries.
I guess if you were hell-bent on it, you might as well make the two vehicles as similar and compatible as possible.

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The Republic of Lanos
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Postby The Republic of Lanos » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:42 am

Add commentary later.

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Lubyak
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Postby Lubyak » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:46 am

Ea90 wrote:@Lubyak: it could work, but I doubt it would work well enough to make up for the logistical worries.
I guess if you were hell-bent on it, you might as well make the two vehicles as similar and compatible as possible.


I could and yeah the logistic issues seem to be the big stepping stone here...though it might well be fun to have to RP out that my leaders made a decision that seemed good on paper, but turned out to be not the best one in actual combat.

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