Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Revision 11

[Elan Valleys]

So decent enough.

Oh yea, it will kill you dead, but its not as good as, say, 5.56x45 and 5.45x39mm.
Its wound cavity probably looks like am exaggerated 5.7x28. But I cant justify hating 4.85 like I can 5.7x28.

Could you make a 4.85mm round with the bullet having the same design principles as the 5.45 5N7? Would that help the effectiveness?

[United states of brazilian nations]

so, i'd like to present you people my idea.
as i've finally decided a history for my nation, i now have to design it's first standard-issue rifle. it will be something around 1900, so i was thinking about something based/inspired on the Mosin-Nagant.
so i've got a question, the first mosins had the sights graduated in meters or arshins? because if they're graduated in arshins, then i guess i'll need to explain the sights were changed from arshins to meters.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Arshins I believe. Also if you're interested I could custom tailor one of my own rifles from that period to suit your needs.

[Bezombia]

Arshins I believe. Also if you're interested I could custom tailor one of my own rifles from that period to suit your needs.

yeah but then he wouldn't be using a mosin

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Sexy, no?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Arshins I believe. Also if you're interested I could custom tailor one of my own rifles from that period to suit your needs.

yeah but then he wouldn't be using a mosin

He said based around/inspired by a mosin. Hence why I offered to change my rifle to satisfy him. Keep up Beno.

[Bezombia]

yours has the bolt behind the ejection port! heresy, and not of mosin

[Puzikas]

so, i'd like to present you people my idea.
as i've finally decided a history for my nation, i now have to design it's first standard-issue rifle. it will be something around 1900, so i was thinking about something based/inspired on the Mosin-Nagant.
so i've got a question, the first mosins had the sights graduated in meters or arshins? because if they're graduated in arshins, then i guess i'll need to explain the sights were changed from arshins to meters.

arshini, Meter-based sights appeared in 1930 and most rifles in service that were not M91/30s were upgraded or re-arsenaled to Meters.

What do you mean by "based on the mosin"? The action or inspires by its design?

For those that don't know, arshini are an archaic Russian unit of measure equal to 28 inches/71.12cm. If I remember right it was based off of the English Inch. It means "yard" basically.

[United states of brazilian nations]

Arshins I believe. Also if you're interested I could custom tailor one of my own rifles from that period to suit your needs.

thanks, however i prefer to make my rifles myself

yeah, actually i guess i used the wrong words. mine will almost be a copy of the mosin, some modifications here and there but at heart almost the same weapon.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Arshins I believe. Also if you're interested I could custom tailor one of my own rifles from that period to suit your needs.

thanks, however i prefer to make my rifles myself

Fair enough. I'm the same way.

[Fordorsia]

yours has the bolt behind the ejection port! heresy, and not of mosin

Bolt behind the ejection port? The hell are you talking about?

[United states of brazilian nations]

Arshins I believe. Also if you're interested I could custom tailor one of my own rifles from that period to suit your needs.

thanks, however i prefer to make my rifles myself

yeah, actually i guess i used the wrong words. mine will almost be a copy of the mosin, some modifications here and there but at heart almost the same weapon.

edit:

arshini, Meter-based sights appeared in 1930 and most rifles in service that were not M91/30s were upgraded or re-arsenaled to Meters.

What do you mean by "based on the mosin"? The action or inspires by its design?

thanks. yeah, as described before almost a copy of the mosin, like a locally-produced version.

oh shit, was going to edit and made another post instead. shit.

[Premislyd]

Oh yea, it will kill you dead, but its not as good as, say, 5.56x45 and 5.45x39mm.
Its wound cavity probably looks like am exaggerated 5.7x28. But I cant justify hating 4.85 like I can 5.7x28.

Could you make a 4.85mm round with the bullet having the same design principles as the 5.45 5N7? Would that help the effectiveness?

It would be rather interesting if you could do it.

[Puzikas]

Could you make a 4.85mm round with the bullet having the same design principles as the 5.45 5N7? Would that help the effectiveness?

It would be rather interesting if you could do it.

Oh, didn't see that.

No. The designers didn't do it for a reason, I assume its because it was not designed for it and basically would make for a bad ballistics profile.

[Bezombia]

yours has the bolt behind the ejection port! heresy, and not of mosin

Bolt behind the ejection port? The hell are you talking about?

See the difference?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

tbf my rifle fires almost as fast an an enfield (bolt placement), as accurately as a Mauser (barrel nearly a straight rip, action is pillar bedded), and shoots a round bigger and meaner than a Mosin (8mm Mazon doesn't fuck around). I think the notmosinnotmausernotenfieldnotremington700 heresy is well worth it.

EDIT: though to be fair the pillar bedding is really only relevant to post-war rearsenaled rifles.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

tbf my rifle fires almost as fast an an enfield (bolt placement), as accurately as a Mauser (barrel nearly a straight rip, action is pillar bedded), and shoots a round bigger and meaner than a Mosin (8mm Mazon doesn't fuck around). I think the notmosinnotmausernotenfieldnotremington700 heresy is well worth it.

EDIT: though to be fair the pillar bedding is really only relevant to post-war rearsenaled rifles.

Could you please explain to me again why an intermediate cartridge like .280 British / 6.5mm Grendel / whatever would have overpenetration issues with police use if JHP were to be used? Even if the bullet passed through someone it would have already mushroomed by the time it exited said person so what you're left with is an already decelerated counter-aerodynamic flying mushroom that would slow down much faster than say a FMJ going through air and that would anyways have a large surface area and thus low pressure when and if it were to hit someone. I assume that by this time you'd get at most a bruise, if that?

EDIT: Relevant read for general purpose cartridges

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

tbf my rifle fires almost as fast an an enfield (bolt placement), as accurately as a Mauser (barrel nearly a straight rip, action is pillar bedded), and shoots a round bigger and meaner than a Mosin (8mm Mazon doesn't fuck around). I think the notmosinnotmausernotenfieldnotremington700 heresy is well worth it.

EDIT: though to be fair the pillar bedding is really only relevant to post-war rearsenaled rifles.

Could you please explain to me again why an intermediate cartridge like .280 British / 6.5mm Grendel / whatever would have overpenetration issues with police use if JHP were to be used? Even if the bullet passed through someone it would have already mushroomed by the time it exited said person so what you're left with is an already decelerated counter-aerodynamic flying mushroom that would slow down much faster than say a FMJ going through air and that would anyways have a large surface area and thus low pressure when and if it were to hit someone. I assume that by this time you'd get at most a bruise, if that?

I was talking about my 8.7mm JHP +p+ at the time.

But still a mushroomed bullet is still a hunk of led flying through the air at several hundred fps (bare minimum) heading towards a soft target. It's just a common sense thing.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Could you please explain to me again why an intermediate cartridge like .280 British / 6.5mm Grendel / whatever would have overpenetration issues with police use if JHP were to be used? Even if the bullet passed through someone it would have already mushroomed by the time it exited said person so what you're left with is an already decelerated counter-aerodynamic flying mushroom that would slow down much faster than say a FMJ going through air and that would anyways have a large surface area and thus low pressure when and if it were to hit someone. I assume that by this time you'd get at most a bruise, if that?

I was talking about my 8.7mm JHP +p+ at the time.

But still a mushroomed bullet is still a hunk of led flying through the air at several hundred fps (bare minimum) heading towards a soft target. It's just a common sense thing.

8.7mm is definitely not what I'm going for, and definitely not +P+ for police issue.

I'm looking at 6.5mm Grendel ~ ballpark, and with standard pressures ( no +P or +P+ for JHP ).

What I'm thinking is:

+P+ FMJ / FMJ AP for the military
+P FMJ / FMJ AP for police armored target use
JHP for police soft target use ( standard issue pretty much )

EDIT: Surprisingly ( for me at least as I haven't really thought of it ) rifle JHP has a lower risk of going through walls etc. b/c of higher velocities than handgun JHPs. B/c of lower velocities with handgun cartridges, their JHPs may not mushroom when hitting a wall and rather go straight through.

[Bezombia]

Here's a list.

First off, I just want to say sorry it took me so long to reply to this. I've been meaning to get back to it, but every time I get around to it I find another gap in my nation's military that's more pressing.
That or other shit gets in the way. You all know the deal.
So, without further ado...

[*]The weapon cannot fully cycle due to the up-swept charging handle being in the way of the receiver cover.

Not exactly sure what a receiver cover is (and google is not helpful), but the charging handle would be very similar to the Galil's, which functions rather well.

[*]The front end of the receiver cover is not secured by anything, so it will never hold a zero. Typical AKs have a groove on the rear sight block for the receiver cover to fit in, and even though they don't have a rear sight in this location, even the Galil and Valmet have a block here to secure the front of the cover.

Again not quite sure what a receiver cover is. I'm looking at a picture of a Galil now...are you referring to the handguard? The rear of it on the Galil appears to have some sort of block.

[*]Gas tube is not secured to anything, either, so it's just going to rattle all the time and likely move around enough to not guide the piston properly, causing it to smash into the gas block itself rather than sit inside of it. This would either cause the weapon to remain out-of-battery or could even result in an out-of-battery ignition of the cartridge that would kill/injure the user.

What do you mean by not secured to anything?

[*]There is no exposed portion of the recoil spring poking out the back of the receiver cover. Not only does this mean the receiver cover is now 100% likely to fly off every shot, but it also means the weapon is incapable of being disassembled if, for some reason, the receiver cover was not to fall off. Which it will.

Again don't know where the receiver cover is on an AK and I'm not seeing any exposed springs on the Type-III, -74M, or Galil, which I used as references.

[*]Since there is no front sight detent pin to hold the muzzle device in place, you will have to use a jamb nut to ensure proper positioning of the device. You are not.

Wait a minute, don't they just screw on?

[*]There is no hinge pin for the magazine catch. Have fun loading/unloading.

[*]There is no hammer pin, I'm questioning how the firearm can fire without a hammer.

[*]There is no sear pin ("third hole"), so this weapon is either semi-automatic only,or more likely, just drawn incorrectly.

[*]There does not appear to be a barrel pin securing the barrel in place. Yes -- even some milled variants also have this. There are also no pins securing the barrel-mounted items (gas block) in place.[/list

Better now?

[The Interplanetary Ottoman Caliph-States]

Name: HTd-3i Assault Rifle (Hücum Tüfeği dizayn 3 İthalat/ARd-3 Export)
Origin: Fischermann/Turkey
Designer: Ahmet Yarımcan
Manufacturer: Makine Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu MKEK
Produced: 1994-Present
In service: Depends on user
Weight: about 3.5kg
Length: no idea
Barrel length: no idea
Cartridge: 5.45x39
Action: Gas Operated, Rotating bolt, long stroke gas piston
Rate of fire: 500 RPM
Effective range: 650m
Feed system: 30 round box magazine
Sights: Adjustable iron up to 1000

A retake on the HTd-3 Assault Rifle made primarily for export with the intended customer being Balkan/Middle Eastern countries. The HTd-3i is effectively a next generation assault rifle that combines the modularity of Western rifles with the well known reliability of the AK series. While primarily chambered in 5.45x39, it is also sold in 5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7x45 variants. Differences from the original version include a changed magwell (the new, unusual magwell was made for modularity, hoping that it could feed from enemy magazines of the same caliber), a gas regulator just behind the handguard and a different muzzle brake. The design is technically the same aside from these differences.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

"The fear of over-penetration is a misconception which was created back when law
enforcement was trying to overcome misinformed public resistance to the use of hollow
point ammunition. In the process, we began to believe it ourselves. First, our
lawyers are unaware of any successful legal action resulting from the injury of a
bystander due to a round over-penetrating the subject. We are aware of numerous
instances of Agents/officers being killed because their round did not penetrate enough
(Grogan and Dove, for example). Further, if you examine shooting statistics you will
see that officers hit the subject somewhere around 20-30% of the time. Thus 70-80%
of the shots fired never hit their intended target, and nobody ever worries about them -
only the ones that might “overpenetrate” the bad guy. Third, as our testing shows, even
the most frangible bullets designed specifically for shallow penetration will plug up
when striking wood or wallboard and then penetrate like full metal jacketed ammunition.

We are aware of successful legal actions where an innocent party has been struck by a shot
passing through a wall, but as we have proven, ALL of them will do that.

Another overlooked factor is that frequently the bullet must penetrate some obstacle
before reaching the desired target area, such as glass, clothing, arms, etc. If all of
our shots were at the subject’s unobstructed, frontal chest area then the required
penetration could be less, but such ideal conditions are seldom present."

-FBI, supposedly.

where is your god now, NS?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Police shouldn't get +p anything tbh.

"The fear of over-penetration is a misconception which was created back when law
enforcement was trying to overcome misinformed public resistance to the use of hollow
point ammunition. In the process, we began to believe it ourselves. First, our
lawyers are unaware of any successful legal action resulting from the injury of a
bystander due to a round over-penetrating the subject. We are aware of numerous
instances of Agents/officers being killed because their round did not penetrate enough
(Grogan and Dove, for example). Further, if you examine shooting statistics you will
see that officers hit the subject somewhere around 20-30% of the time. Thus 70-80%
of the shots fired never hit their intended target, and nobody ever worries about them -
only the ones that might “overpenetrate” the bad guy. Third, as our testing shows, even
the most frangible bullets designed specifically for shallow penetration will plug up
when striking wood or wallboard and then penetrate like full metal jacketed ammunition.

We are aware of successful legal actions where an innocent party has been struck by a shot
passing through a wall, but as we have proven, ALL of them will do that.

Another overlooked factor is that frequently the bullet must penetrate some obstacle
before reaching the desired target area, such as glass, clothing, arms, etc. If all of
our shots were at the subject’s unobstructed, frontal chest area then the required
penetration could be less, but such ideal conditions are seldom present."

-FBI, supposedly.

FBI also call AK type 1-3 AK47. Or was that the CIA?

[The Republic of Lanos]

(Image)
Better now?

Still won't cycle. Check out this AKM:

Why? Because there is still no place for the bolt to fully cycle.

[Bezombia]

Police shouldn't get +p anything tbh.

-FBI, supposedly.

FBI also call AK type 1-3 AK47. Or was that the CIA?

CIA at first, although I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI did it as well.