Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Revision 11

[Black Hand]

Magnesium has some interesting properties, and could possibly make a nice round. light, Cheap, strong and if you use incendiary rounds it'll be a nice assistant.

The reason I'm looking at alternatives to steel and copper in green bullets is because they're already too light. I don't want to go lighter.

If possible you could use a plastic jacketed mercury round..... I have no clue how the fuck it would work but it would be interesting.
page 455 glory!

[Ea90]

Aluminium and brass are both plausible and have been used before.
Aluminium also has the advantage of being bloody cheap, but it has a really low density.

On an unrelated note, what's the longest a cartridge can be and still fit into a pistol grip comfortably?

[The Republic of Lanos]

On an unrelated note, what's the longest a cartridge can be and still fit into a pistol grip comfortably?

10mm Auto?

[Ea90]

On an unrelated note, what's the longest a cartridge can be and still fit into a pistol grip comfortably?

10mm Auto?

10mm Auto is only 32mm long; 5.7x28 FN is over 8mm longer.

[Black Hand]

On an unrelated note, what's the longest a cartridge can be and still fit into a pistol grip comfortably?

10mm Auto?

nope, that's 10X25, the 5-7 is 5.7X28
I'd argue that you could possibly use even a 39mm cartridge in there.... it would need to be a Very thin and light frame but it would work.
I issue a 9X39 service automatic.
and a 9X39R notNagantm1895 revolver

[Galla-]

Aluminium and brass are both plausible and have been used before.
Aluminium also has the advantage of being bloody cheap, but it has a really low density.

On an unrelated note, what's the longest a cartridge can be and still fit into a pistol grip comfortably?

42mm

[Aqizithiuda]

The reason I'm looking at alternatives to steel and copper in green bullets is because they're already too light. I don't want to go lighter.

What's denser than lead but cheaper?

It also has to be less toxic. So far, it looks like nothing meets that criteria.

The reason I'm looking at alternatives to steel and copper in green bullets is because they're already too light. I don't want to go lighter.

If possible you could use a plastic jacketed mercury round..... I have no clue how the fuck it would work but it would be interesting.
page 455 glory!

...

This isn't worth the block of text I was going to write explaining why this is such a horribly bad idea.

Aluminium and brass are both plausible and have been used before.
Aluminium also has the advantage of being bloody cheap, but it has a really low density.

On an unrelated note, what's the longest a cartridge can be and still fit into a pistol grip comfortably?

A discussion on the subject.

[Galla-]

You should just use whatever M855A1 does, steel/copper or whatever.

If there were a cheaper alternative, the US Army would be using it.

Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure the M855A1 is more expensive than Nammo's green ammunition, and the US military doesn't always make the best choices guaranteed.

It usually makes the cheapest choices. o:

And Nammo's "green" ammo causes heavy metal poisoning. More proof Norway should just outsource all defence development to Saab-Bofors.

[Aqizithiuda]

Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure the M855A1 is more expensive than Nammo's green ammunition, and the US military doesn't always make the best choices guaranteed.

It usually makes the cheapest choices. o:

So they've never bought or used something that costs way more than it should?

And Nammo's "green" ammo causes heavy metal poisoning.

Based on the primer and decoppering agents in the propellant, IIRC.

[Galla-]

Who's Nammo?

Amazing.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Who's Nammo?

Amazing.

Excuse me for not being well versed in ammunition manufacturers.

[Galla-]

It usually makes the cheapest choices. o:

So they've never bought or used something that costs way more than it should?

And Nammo's "green" ammo causes heavy metal poisoning.

Based on the primer and decoppering agents in the propellant, IIRC.

1) Read it again, see if you understand this time.

2) Probably, since that makes the fumes you breathe. It also probably decreases the cost of the ammunition.

[Aqizithiuda]

So they've never bought or used something that costs way more than it should?



Based on the primer and decoppering agents in the propellant, IIRC.

1) Read it again, see if you understand this time.

2) Probably, since that makes the fumes you breathe. It also probably decreases the cost of the ammunition.

Still don't get it.

I think the price has more to do with the manufacturing process. Simpler steel core, no reverse drawing, etc.

[Yes Im Biop]

Maybe this is why they're not used IRL?

This is NS.

Everyone is an autarky with infinite resources whose only purpose to exist is to make war for amusement.

Yes, I figured that was why they weren't used IRL. I'm not stupid. I was asking the thread if there were any alternatives to copper and steel in case I'd missed anything.

I just use Incendiary Paste with lead and Tungsten. You really can't beat lead for what you want.


If you want Heavier bullets use a small DU core surrounded by lead. That should bump the mass up quite a bit

[Galla-]

1) Read it again, see if you understand this time.

2) Probably, since that makes the fumes you breathe. It also probably decreases the cost of the ammunition.

Still don't get it.

I think the price has more to do with the manufacturing process. Simpler steel core, no reverse drawing, etc.

1) There's a key word. Starts with a "u".

2) Because propellant isn't something that can be easily substituted to reduce cost of manufacture.

[Black Hand]

If possible you could use a plastic jacketed mercury round..... I have no clue how the fuck it would work but it would be interesting.
page 455 glory!

...

This isn't worth the block of text I was going to write explaining why this is such a horribly bad idea.

You asked for alternatives that were heavier.... I never claimed it was better. Seriously though.... steel, nothing but steel or lead, nothing will be cheaper, if you must to cut costs you could have a steel cased, steel cored, Steel jacketed round. no brass and you could focus on one of the most readily available industrial materials.

[Yes Im Biop]

If I wasn't so Tired I would Post the Black hawks in my house. My .357 and my step dad's .44mag.


Non related question How does one register a weapon in one's name?

[New Randia]

You asked for alternatives that were heavier.... I never claimed it was better. Seriously though.... steel, nothing but steel or lead, nothing will be cheaper, if you must to cut costs you could have a steel cased, steel cored, Steel jacketed round. no brass and you could focus on one of the most readily available industrial materials.

you are going to want some lead, copper or other soft metal in there somewhere so the bullet can compress, deform, and engage the rifleing, unless you want to go pointlessly more expensive (thus missing the point) and have a fin stabilized discarding sabot round.

still, in agreement with black hand on this point, you can make a projectile out of anything you want. perhaps plastic and ceramic, or wood and aluminum, its is just very hard to justify the expense unless you are using the alternate material to defeat a specific target. it is usually better both in terms of cost and performance to use lead, steel, and copper.

[Aqizithiuda]

Still don't get it.

I think the price has more to do with the manufacturing process. Simpler steel core, no reverse drawing, etc.

1) There's a key word. Starts with a "u".

2) Because propellant isn't something that can be easily substituted to reduce cost of manufacture.

Then what was with the ":o" smiley?

You miss my point. My point is that it's likely not the propellant that's making it cheaper, but the projectile itself. The propellant more than likely won't have anything to do with making it cheaper.

...

This isn't worth the block of text I was going to write explaining why this is such a horribly bad idea.

You asked for alternatives that were heavier.... I never claimed it was better. Seriously though.... steel, nothing but steel or lead, nothing will be cheaper, if you must to cut costs you could have a steel cased, steel cored, Steel jacketed round. no brass and you could focus on one of the most readily available industrial materials.

*looks at my post above your mercury one*

*bolds the key word*

Magnesium has some interesting properties, and could possibly make a nice round. light, Cheap, strong and if you use incendiary rounds it'll be a nice assistant.

The reason I'm looking at alternatives to steel and copper in green bullets is because they're already too light. I don't want to go lighter.

Mercury is in no way, shape or form green, and the idea of putting a dense, toxic liquid inside a polymer jacket, which will most likely pop inside the barrel of the rifle, allowing the heat of the burning propellant to vaporise it, so you can breath it all in is in no way, shape or form a green idea.

[New Randia]

why green bullets anyway? aren't we talking military ammo. if your nation is in danger anything goes.

[Transnapastain]

Military already switched from lead to copper in an effort to be green anyways. Did that back after, like, World War 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_bullet
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfiel ... en-bullet/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO#M855A1

Its green damnit!

[Aqizithiuda]

why green bullets anyway? aren't we talking military ammo. if your nation is in danger anything goes.

What Trans said.

I've given up on it, though. I can't get the performance I want with copper and steel, so there's going to be some lead after all.

[European Prussia]

<weapon>
<part id="Foregrip003" x="1094" y="748.95" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,666666"/>
<part id="RedDot006" x="871" y="654.95" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,666666,fffffd"/>
<part id="FlashHider006" x="1349" y="706.45" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
<group x="904.15" y="727.7" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1">
<part id="Shape05" x="43.85" y="-21" rotation="180" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
<part id="Bolt004" x="7.3" y="-25.85" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="e1e1e1,666666"/>
<part id="UReceiver011" x="2.9" y="-26.15" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,666666"/>
<part id="LReceiver006" x="0" y="5.9" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,666666"/>
<part id="DustCover02" x="44.3" y="-22.45" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,cccccc,999999"/>
</group>
<part id="RIS007" x="1120.3" y="705.3" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,666666,666666,999999"/>
<group x="1247.05" y="698.45" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1">
<part id="ISight016A" x="0" y="-15.75" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
<part id="ISight016B" x="8.05" y="0.55" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,999999"/>
</group>
<part id="GasTube06" x="1112.4" y="692.15" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="e1e1e1"/>
<part id="PGrip001" x="840.2" y="788.55" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
<part id="Barrel012" x="1184" y="706.95" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
<group x="736" y="732.95" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1">
<part id="OStock07A" x="0" y="0.05" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666,666666,444444"/>
<part id="OStock07B" x="24.5" y="-39.2" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
</group>
<part id="RMag009" x="952" y="778.95" rotation="0" scale="1" flip="1,1" colors="666666"/>
</weapon>

what do you think?

[Transnapastain]

I think you need to figure out how image hosting works.

would you like some help?

[European Prussia]

I think you need to figure out how image hosting works.

would you like some help?

I have fixed it,posting the image version soon