Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Revision 11

[Black Hand]

belt fed rocket launcher. Which now that I think about it would be perfect for you Biop, I was thinking a 70mm beltfed MG (rockets being modified CRV7's) with it still being a non rifled Barrel and open rear tube. our troops actually might be able to Carry Such a monstrosity And use it as a Emplaced weapon.

Eh... I already have one... KInda.

Oh never mind then. do you have the write up for it? (I might still make it and mount it on armored vehicles for the Lulz think weird Tos-1 Style vehicle but direct fire)
EDIT: relevant gunporn

[Yes Im Biop]

Eh... I already have one... KInda.

Oh never mind then. do you have the write up for it? (I might still make it and mount it on armored vehicles for the Lulz think weird Tos-1 Style vehicle but direct fire)

It's more of a DURP From 2 years ago so That's why I say Kinda. I use what? 72mm Rockets but that being said, I'm a lot more defined now XD

[Aqizithiuda]

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Assault Rifle, Caliber 6.8mm, ARC-9

(Image)
(The standard ARC-9 with loaded 30 round magazine offset)

ARC-9

• Type: Assault rifle
• Place of Origin: Benomia

Service History

• In Service: 2013 - Present
• Used By: Benomian National Defense Force (Army & Navy)

Production History

• Designed: 2009-2013
• Designer: Khakhov Markop
• Manufactured by: The Markop Company; King cobra ArMs
• Produced: 2013 - Present
• Number Built: ~200
• Variants:
  • ARC-9
  • ARC9E1
  • ARC9-H
  • ARU-9
  • SORC-9
  • SRC-13
    
    • SRC13E1
    • SRC13H
    • SRU-13
    • ORC-13

Specifications

• Weight: 7.1 lb (empty)
• Length: 590mm
• Barrel Length: 400mm
  

  ---

• Cartridge(s):
  • 6.8x50mm LPAC
  • 7.62x25 (.300 Tok)(SORC-9/ORC-13)
• Action: Twin-piston, rising/falling breech
• Rate of Fire: 650 rounds/min (adjustable)
• Feed System: 30- or 45-round box magazines
• Sights: Any mounted sights

Background

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After years of service, the aging Viper rifle (formerly used by the Benomian military) was beginning to show its major drawbacks. The heavy brass rounds were preventing the soldiers from carrying much needed ammunition, and the sheer weight prevented decent sized magazines and lightweight paratrooper models. Also, the heavy recoil the round produced kept long range and extended encounters from being handled effectively by Benomian soldiers. In late 2011, the Benomian SOC issued a request for proposals to replace the Viper and Terronium rifles still in their possession. In December of that year, the Benomian Army issued the same request. That program led to the official adoptation of the "M64A1 6.8x70 Caseless Rifle", although it's inability to chamber a round at all in damp conditions, combined with its exessive recoil (even with the BARS mechanism), heavy weight, and litteral inability to dissasemble the rifle without physically breaking it led to it never actually getting issued. In Febuary 2012 the Benomian National Defense Force issued a worldwide request for proposals for a new rifle (dubbed the "ARC", or "Advanced Rifle Competition"), and although every entry failed the moderate succes of an outside caseless rifle led Benomian weapon engineers to rethink the failed M64 as just that - a failure of rifle, not of concept.
Foreign "AK-14" caseless rifles (produced in The Archangel Cologmerate) became the starting point for many new Benomian designs. In late March 2012 a new competition for Benomian makes only (dubbed "ARC-2") with one of the requirements being a caseless design. A total of six rifles entered the competition, but like ARC-1 before it all were rejected and the makes given notice of their rifle's flaws. The competition was set up yet again (as ARC-3), and yet again no rifle met all requirements. This chain of restarting and cancelling the ARC program occured eight times, before one was finally accepted on the ninth version of the competition. The rifle, designed by Khakhov Markop and produced by his corporation, used the same mechanism as late 70s caseless prototypes but in a bullpup format. The rifle was formally adopted on June 19th, 2013, and redesigns for various roles began almost immediately. The Navy branch of the NDF adopted the ARC9E1 rifle on July 8th 2013.


Construction & Design

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The ARC-9's construction is relatively basic. It is constructed from a solid polymer block, with both receivers being milled seperately; the two recievers are rivetted together. The interior workings are mostly constructed out of lightweight aluminum. The magazines are constructed mainly from polymer as well, but some aluminum magazines also exist. Barrels are chrome lined as standard.
The design of the weapon is much more unconventional. It is piston operated (with a gas adjustment system), but there are two phyisical operating rods. The gas from the projectile is extracted at the gas block near the edge of the rifle, and pushed at a 90 degree angle onto the piston (the exess gas is then vented into the surrounding air). The piston (and charging handle) then move rearwards, which acts on a lever which moves the second piston, located behind the trigger under the barrel. This bottom piston pushes the cartridge rearward, directly into the breechblock. The upper piston continues rearward which moves a large, flat cam profile attached to the side of the breech, which moves backwards, shifting the breechblock directly upwards in line with the barrel. If the trigger is depressed, when the breechblock gets in line with the barrel the hammer will fire the cartridge, which also actutes the cam lever, pushing forward the piston, down the breechblock, etc. When there is no cartridge left in the magazine, the first half of operation will complete itself, leaving the breechblock in the upper position and the charging handle rearward. A magazine must then be inserted, a bolt release (located on the left side of the rifle) hit, and then the charging handle pumped to load a new cartridge. If a cartridge is loaded and must be ejected, the magazine must be removed, the charging handle pushed forward, and the rifle tilted to the front until the cartridge falls out.
The magazines are completely closed on the top, which prevents exessive moisture from entering the magazines as well as simplifying the feeding process. Magazines can be loaded by depressing a thumbpart on the side of the magazine, and then placing the cartridges in one by one.
The rifle features seperate a seperate safety and fire selector. The selector can select from full-automatic or semi-automatic. The magazine release is ergonomically built into the stock, and the compensator is removable to attach sound suppresors.


Variants

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Many variations of the ARC-9 concept are planned, with some already in production. The main version, the ARC-9, features a 400mm barrel. The version adopted by the navy, featuring a lengthed 508mm barrel, is known as the ARC9E1 (sometimes the hyphen is included, but formal military designation does not indclude hyphens for "E" or "A" rifles varients). There is also a civilian version known as the SRC-13, that is semi-automatic only and lacks the gas adjustment system,

In addition to these main versions, there are multiple planned versions of the rifle. The ARC9-H is a variant with a 650mm barrel to be issued in the infantry automatic rifle role, with some versions featuring modified magwells and 100-round drum magazines replacing some belt fed light machineguns. The ARU-9 is an ultrashort version of the ARC-9 with a greatly shortened front handguard/receiver and a 275mm barrel. The SORC-9 is a modified version of the rifle with a different magwel and chambered for the 7.62x25mm round standard in Benomian pistols and PDWs. This version lacks a gas regulator, as adjusting the system either direction caused severe reliability concerns.
The SRC-13 civilian line also has versions the mirror the above military-spec rifles. They are the SRC13E1, SRC13H, SRU-13, and ORC-13, respectively.

There was also plans to produce an export rifle chambered in a telescoped version of the 6.8x43mm SPC cartridge, although this specific program has been postponed until sufficient military production lines can be established.

This BBcode format courtesy of Corda

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Weight seems too low, I don't see any mention of an ejection port, the construction of the rifle is overly complex, the mechanism seems more complex than it needs to be, and it almost seems to me as though there isn't enough room in the image for weapon to function.

You're right. Technically, I suppose it's a selective-fire submachine gun.

I'd issue something a bit bigger for a standard issue weapon.

Except that caseless propellants are too fragile to form a rim.

Special ''outer case'' propellant-disintegrating material that's strong enough to do so?

Just an idea, though. I think it'd make for an interesting spec ops round.

Plastic isn't strong enough for that, let alone a combustible case. Trust me, I've looked into this .

[Yes Im Biop]

Except that caseless propellants are too fragile to form a rim.

Special ''outer case'' propellant-disintegrating material that's strong enough to do so?

Just an idea, though. I think it'd make for an interesting spec ops round.

A hard combustible metal? It may not totally desentgrate but no one will realize it's a bullet or case

[Benomia]

Weight seems too low,

I kinda just guessed for the weight, considering I have very little experience with the weights of stuff like this. Will adjust.

I don't see any mention of an ejection port,

Weird. I wrote in in Notepad, but it seems to have deleted itself...

Anyway due to how it operates it's physically impossible for there to be an ejection port. The rifle I based it off of didn't have one either.

the construction of the rifle is overly complex,

Pretty sure that's just because I went into detail. I just described what I thought most rifles were manufactured like,

the mechanism seems more complex than it needs to be,

Of the options I had available, this was actually the least complex. I agree it's a lot more than just a simple piston, but with caseless ammunition it's kinda assumed that it'll be complex.

and it almost seems to me as though there isn't enough room in the image for weapon to function.

This I actually did check. It BARELY fits, but it does fit.

[Yes Im Biop]

Beno. You NEED and ejection port.

[Fischermann]

Plastic isn't strong enough for that, let alone a combustible case. Trust me, I've looked into this .

Sheeeeeeyiit

[Benomia]

Beno. You NEED and ejection port.

It's not like last time (I finished that rifle btw) where I could have one but chose not to. The action for this rifle literally would not function if there was a method for the cartridge to leave the breech after firing.

[Red Schrattal]

Beno. You NEED and ejection port.

It's not like last time (I finished that rifle btw) where I could have one but chose not to. The action for this rifle literally would not function if there was a method for the cartridge to leave the breech after firing.

The cartridge needs to be able to leave the breech after firing on the off chance that the caseless round misfires. If you designed a weapon that can't be fired safely, you're killing your own men.

Edit: I might not know how to design a good mid-20th century "cheap" weapon, but I know for damn sure I would never touch a weapon that couldn't be made safe after a misfire.

[Benomia]

It's not like last time (I finished that rifle btw) where I could have one but chose not to. The action for this rifle literally would not function if there was a method for the cartridge to leave the breech after firing.

The cartridge needs to be able to leave the breech after firing on the off chance that the caseless round misfires. If you designed a weapon that can't be fired safely, you're killing your own men.

It is possible to do that, just in a method that doesn't involve opening the breech.

You have to manually push forward the charging handle and then tilt the rifle forward, which will drop the cartridge.
Because the cartridge never leaves the breechblock, the breechblock must be completely sealed or else pressure will escape and the round won't fire.

[Yes Im Biop]

The cartridge needs to be able to leave the breech after firing on the off chance that the caseless round misfires. If you designed a weapon that can't be fired safely, you're killing your own men.

It is possible to do that, just in a method that doesn't involve opening the breech.

You have to manually push forward the charging handle and then tilt the rifle forward, which will drop the cartridge.
Because the cartridge never leaves the breechblock, the breechblock must be completely sealed or else pressure will escape and the round won't fire.

Then get a new action because that won't work.

[Benomia]

It is possible to do that, just in a method that doesn't involve opening the breech.

You have to manually push forward the charging handle and then tilt the rifle forward, which will drop the cartridge.
Because the cartridge never leaves the breechblock, the breechblock must be completely sealed or else pressure will escape and the round won't fire.

Then get a new action because that won't work.

It's that or the G11's action.

[Red Schrattal]

I could be wrong, but didn't you just say that pushing the charging handle forward would cause the barrel to dilate?

Edit: I have it on good authority that the G11 actually works.

[Yes Im Biop]

Then get a new action because that won't work.

It's that or the G11's action.

AT least the G11 works.

[Aqizithiuda]

Beno. You NEED and ejection port.

It's not like last time (I finished that rifle btw) where I could have one but chose not to. The action for this rifle literally would not function if there was a method for the cartridge to leave the breech after firing.

Yes it could. The new cartidge pushes the old one out, just like on every other push through caseless design ever.

Plastic isn't strong enough for that, let alone a combustible case. Trust me, I've looked into this .

Sheeeeeeyiit

Pretty much.

You could, in theory, use a brass stub and combustible forward case like 120mm tank ammo does, but it's notgoing to offer any real advantage, and, IIRC, similar designs done by the US military in the 60s didn't work out so well.

[Yes Im Biop]

It's not like last time (I finished that rifle btw) where I could have one but chose not to. The action for this rifle literally would not function if there was a method for the cartridge to leave the breech after firing.

Yes it could. The new cartidge pushes the old one out, just like on every other push through caseless design ever.

Sheeeeeeyiit

Pretty much.

You could, in theory, use a brass stub and combustible forward case like 120mm tank ammo does, but it's notgoing to offer any real advantage, and, IIRC, similar designs done by the US military in the 60s didn't work out so well.

Not much done by the U.S. In the 60's worked well.

[Benomia]

I could be wrong, but didn't you just say that pushing the charging handle forward would cause the barrel to dilate?

...no I never said anything like that. Ever.

Pushing the charging handle forward lowers the breech. As the cartridge is always in the breech, this gives the user access to the cartridge, provided a magazine is not present.

Edit: I have it on good authority that the G11 actually works.

In the words of this thread, "The G11 is a good model for how not to do a caseless rifle".

[Benomia]

It's not like last time (I finished that rifle btw) where I could have one but chose not to. The action for this rifle literally would not function if there was a method for the cartridge to leave the breech after firing.

Yes it could. The new cartidge pushes the old one out, just like on every other push through caseless design ever.

Um...
The video I watched on it showed that the cartridge never actually enters the barrel. So no, that wouldn't even make sense.

[Rich and Corporations]

Metalstorm is an excellent caseless rifle technology.

[Benomia]

Metalstorm is an excellent caseless rifle technology.

Metalstorm? You mean the make that puts a bunch of rounds in front of each other and fires them at once?

[Yes Im Biop]

I could be wrong, but didn't you just say that pushing the charging handle forward would cause the barrel to dilate?

...no I never said anything like that. Ever.

Pushing the charging handle forward lowers the breech. As the cartridge is always in the breech, this gives the user access to the cartridge, provided a magazine is not present.

Edit: I have it on good authority that the G11 actually works.

In the words of this thread, "The G11 is a good model for how not to do a caseless rifle".

The G11 is also one of the few Real world Caseless AR's to be known to work.

That and Like Rich said. Metalstorm. But they just shove a stick down a barrel and if one bullet misfires it rides along with the one behind it.

[Benomia]

...no I never said anything like that. Ever.

Pushing the charging handle forward lowers the breech. As the cartridge is always in the breech, this gives the user access to the cartridge, provided a magazine is not present.



In the words of this thread, "The G11 is a good model for how not to do a caseless rifle".

The G11 is also one of the few Real world Caseless AR's to be known to work.

That and Like Rich said. Metalstorm. But they just shove a stick down a barrel and if one bullet misfires it rides along with the one behind it.

And this rifle was based on one of the other real world caseless rifles to be known to work.

Hell it was San (?) that first brought my attention to the action. Wouldn't have recommended it if it didn't work.

[Yes Im Biop]

Metalstorm is an excellent caseless rifle technology.

Metalstorm? You mean the make that puts a bunch of rounds in front of each other and fires them at once?

Nope. They fire one by one. But at 1 Mill a minute they fire faster than you can think.

[Aqizithiuda]

Yes it could. The new cartidge pushes the old one out, just like on every other push through caseless design ever.

Um...
The video I watched on it showed that the cartridge never actually enters the barrel. So no, that wouldn't even make sense.

You don't make sense. Where on earth, in the post you quoted and in the dozens of posts i've made re: caseless weapons, have I suggested or insinuated that the cartridge enters the barrel. Further more, if the cartridge is in the barrel and fails to fire, it can't be pushed out.

Go look at the Hughes caseless demonstrator, the G11 PDW and the LSAT and then come back and try this argument again.

Metalstorm is an excellent caseless rifle technology.

It really isn't.

Metalstorm is an excellent caseless rifle technology.

Metalstorm? You mean the make that puts a bunch of bullets in front of each other and fires them at once?

That's not what MS has claimed to be, ever.

The G11 is also one of the few Real world Caseless AR's to be known to work.

That and Like Rich said. Metalstorm. But they just shove a stick down a barrel and if one bullet misfires it rides along with the one behind it.

And this rifle was based on one of the other real world caseless rifles to be known to work.

Hell it was San (?) that first brought my attention to the action. Wouldn't have recommended it if it didn't work.

Which other successful caseless rifle?

[Benomia]

Um...
The video I watched on it showed that the cartridge never actually enters the barrel. So no, that wouldn't even make sense.

You don't make sense. Where on earth, in the post you quoted and in the dozens of posts i've made re: caseless weapons, have I suggested or insinuated that the cartridge enters the barrel. Further more, if the cartridge is in the barrel and fails to fire, it can't be pushed out.

Go look at the Hughes caseless demonstrator, the G11 PDW and the LSAT and then come back and try this argument again.

Ironic because this rifle was based on the action used by the Hughes rifle.