Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.V

[New Korongo]

What is it and why does it exist?

UDES XX20, because Sweden.

[Val Nube]

What cannon is that packing?

120mm

How did you mount it? Like what did you have to alter? I'm trying to upgun some Shermans but am running into a problem where the gun likely won't fit into the turret.

[Gallia-]

(Image)

You guys are all fascists

Get dem commies.

[Oaledonia]

120mm

How did you mount it? Like what did you have to alter? I'm trying to upgun some Shermans but am running into a problem where the gun likely won't fit into the turret.

Look to the Israelis, or try mounting it sideways.

[Val Nube]

How did you mount it? Like what did you have to alter? I'm trying to upgun some Shermans but am running into a problem where the gun likely won't fit into the turret.

Look to the Israelis, or try mounting it sideways.

The Israelis chopped a sizable length off of the 105mm they mounted. I don't understand what you mean by mounting it sideways.

[Imperializt Russia]

What is it and why does it exist?

UDES XX20, because Sweden.

Silly internet thought it was Polish and wouldn't tell me what it was.

[Anemos Major]

UDES XX20, because Sweden.

Silly internet thought it was Polish and wouldn't tell me what it was.

Just read through this.

Interesting stuff.

[Purpelia]

Say the project had been completed and adopted as a service vehicle. How good would it have been overall, given the technology of the time? And how well would it have matched up to its contemporaries?

Also, who would in in a fight? A Strv 2000 or a modernized MBT-70?

[Oaledonia]

Say the project had been completed and adopted as a service vehicle. How good would it have been overall, given the technology of the time? And how well would it have matched up to its contemporaries?

Also, who would in in a fight? A Strv 2000 or a modernized MBT-70?

Well the MBT-70 is still an MBT-70, so it'll suffer massive amounts of fail and probably explode or something

[Purpelia]

Say the project had been completed and adopted as a service vehicle. How good would it have been overall, given the technology of the time? And how well would it have matched up to its contemporaries?

Also, who would in in a fight? A Strv 2000 or a modernized MBT-70?

Well the MBT-70 is still an MBT-70, so it'll suffer massive amounts of fail and probably explode or something

The idea is that both projects are taken to their ultimate finished product stage where all the bugs are worked out and they work as the designers intended them to.

[Ea90]

Say the project had been completed and adopted as a service vehicle. How good would it have been overall, given the technology of the time? And how well would it have matched up to its contemporaries?

Also, who would in in a fight? A Strv 2000 or a modernized MBT-70?

Strv 2000 I suppose.
(although of course it would depend a lot more on the crew and situation then the vehicle)

[Oaledonia]

Well the MBT-70 is still an MBT-70, so it'll suffer massive amounts of fail and probably explode or something

The idea is that both projects are taken to their ultimate finished product stage where all the bugs are worked out and they work as the designers intended them to.

In the end though, it's still an MBT-70

[Purpelia]

The idea is that both projects are taken to their ultimate finished product stage where all the bugs are worked out and they work as the designers intended them to.

In the end though, it's still an MBT-70

What's so bad about the MBT-70? Or rather, what is not awesome about it?

[Ea90]

In the end though, it's still an MBT-70

What's so bad about the MBT-70? Or rather, what is not awesome about it?

Galla likes it

[Imperializt Russia]

Silly internet thought it was Polish and wouldn't tell me what it was.

Just read through this.

Interesting stuff.

Can't help but think it's more vulnerable to M-Kill than a conventional vehicle.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Say the project had been completed and adopted as a service vehicle. How good would it have been overall, given the technology of the time? And how well would it have matched up to its contemporaries?

Also, who would in in a fight? A Strv 2000 or a modernized MBT-70?

MBT-70 would have GLATGMs off the bat as part of its weapons, so in theory it'd have the longer engagement range over the Strv 2000 (I only know of APFSDS and HE projectiles planned for that thing - unless anybody out there has more info for a 140mm-class GLATGM for the thing).

Armourwise, the Strv is probably better, since it was designed in time to fully take advantage of composite armour technology and looks modular; the MBT-70 was designed before composite tech was integrated; most it can get is what can be added-on (so applique armour and ERA and maybe APS) - which the Strv can get as well. So if the Strv can survive the GLATGM assault of the 70 in time to get in range for its 140mm weapon, it might stand a chance.

[Oaledonia]

Does anybody know the name of the digital camouflage China is using on their vehicles?

On the Type 99

[The Kievan People]

MBT-70 would have GLATGMs off the bat as part of its weapons, so in theory it'd have the longer engagement range over the Strv 2000 (I only know of APFSDS and HE projectiles planned for that thing - unless anybody out there has more info for a 140mm-class GLATGM for the thing).

Armourwise, the Strv is probably better, since it was designed in time to fully take advantage of composite armour technology and looks modular; the MBT-70 was designed before composite tech was integrated; most it can get is what can be added-on (so applique armour and ERA and maybe APS) - which the Strv can get as well. So if the Strv can survive the GLATGM assault of the 70 in time to get in range for its 140mm weapon, it might stand a chance.

The Strv. 2000's gun could penetrate the MBT-70 right out to the horizon. It would have no trouble dispatching the MBT-70 even in a long range fight.

Unsurprisingly a tank designed thirty years later has a significant edge.

[The Greater Luthorian Empire]

What's so bad about the MBT-70? Or rather, what is not awesome about it?

Galla likes it

Because it is badass. A gun launcher MBT, crew sitting in a massive turret, minimum height of 2 metres, 20 mm cannon on top of the turret. Honestly make the gun a full length gun and add 20 tons of armour and you have an NS tank.

[Lydenburg]

What is it and why does it exist?

UDES XX20, because Sweden.

Silhouette killing me.

[Lydenburg]

Does anybody know the name of the digital camouflage China is using on their vehicles?
(Image)
On the Type 99

I see they've retained their Soviet fascination with whitewalls, even on tracks.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Anybody here recall that PLA forces are still wearing the Bata-pattern boots from the Vietnam era?

[Dostanuot Loj]

Look to the Israelis, or try mounting it sideways.

The Israelis chopped a sizable length off of the 105mm they mounted. I don't understand what you mean by mounting it sideways.

Go super-low-pressure tiny-stub 120mm, 120mm breach loading mortar, or give up now.

No proper 120mm tank gun will fit into a Sherman. The turret ring is just too tiny.

The Israeli's managed to fit the CN105D1 into Shermans by dramatically reducing the recoil range of a weapon which is already on the low pressure side. They cut length to reduce the end-pressure, added a very good muzzle break, and stuck it in sideways so the crew could fit. Gun depression was horrible, as was loading.

It could not have been done with a 105mm L7 because the recoil force is too great. And when you step into 120mm tank guns you go bigger.

Putting a bigger gun into a tank means you have to deal with recoil forces. You have three options:
1) Lower power gun: Much lower pressure so the gun fits the recoil needs.
2) Heavier vehicle: A heavier vehicle can absorb the recoil forces better, so you don't need as much travel room, or a lower power.
3) More recoil travel: longer travel means you can move the recoil over more time.

Now, most tanks and other AFVs use a combination of these. And in addition, you can cheat 1 with muzzle breaks etc. But turret ring diameter will still be a factor if you have too narrow a diameter. Lightweight, large gun vehicles (Centauro) tend to use a combination of cheating-1, and large diameter turret ring for room.

A Sherman has neither turret diameter, nor weight. You are stuck with 1. And you can only cheat so far, the Israeli's already did it.

[Registug]

Above argument can be applied to the discussion we were having about sticking WWII 90mm guns into WWII half tracks

[Lydenburg]

1) Lower power gun: Much lower pressure so the gun fits the recoil needs.
2) Heavier vehicle: A heavier vehicle can absorb the recoil forces better, so you don't need as much travel room, or a lower power.
3) More recoil travel: longer travel means you can move the recoil over more time.

Now, most tanks and other AFVs use a combination of these. And in addition, you can cheat 1 with muzzle breaks etc. But turret ring diameter will still be a factor if you have too narrow a diameter. Lightweight, large gun vehicles (Centauro) tend to use a combination of cheating-1, and large diameter turret ring for room.

Very interesting. But I can think of another cheat. If it's got wheels, let the vehicle rock backwards to help absorb the recoil. It's what the SADF did with the Ratel - a vehicle originally designed to accept a 20mm autocannon. Without a heavily braced roof or reworked suspension, it couldn't accept the huge 90mm gun that somebody tried to put on it for anti-tank work. The first time a Ratel 90 prototype fired, it suffered a structural failure. Another one lost its axles. Drivers were thusly trained to depress the clutch just as the gun fired, allowing the vehicle freedom to roll.

A Saracen gunner, who had some experience with prototypes and proposed putting a 90mm MECAR into that particular car like the blokes at Bovington, made a similar proposal back in the '80s.

[Internal Union]

STRYKER apc and is used as an anti-tank when fitted with a tank cannon and aditional armor and treads also gecos are employed on a massive scale