Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.V

[Registug]

Why is it a rear-facing gun? The Israelis put a 90mm turret from an AML armoured car on one of their old halftracks and it worked just fine.

I based it on a design by Novorden.

Rear-facing guns have advantages. Lower profile, more traverse, and like Soodean mentioned, when they fired from an ambush position they were able to drive away quickly.

[Lydenburg]

Unless you hetzerise it by removing the turret and moding the hull to accept a gun at which point the sky is the limit.

Casemates are super lame

Flawed.

How much traverse does that get?

Limited by the frame of the vehicle, obviously. But it's all good.

More forward-facing goodness:

[Lydenburg]

Why is it a rear-facing gun? The Israelis put a 90mm turret from an AML armoured car on one of their old halftracks and it worked just fine.

It was inspired by one of Novorden's designs.

You basically have a gun tractor, or a towed anti-tank gun. You don't really have an effective tank hunter.

Why not reduce the length of the vehicle a great deal and simply mount the turret on top?

[Kouralia]

It was inspired by one of Novorden's designs.

You basically have a gun tractor, or a towed anti-tank gun. You don't really have an effective tank hunter.

Why not reduce the length of the vehicle a great deal and simply mount the turret on top?

#archer

[Sevvania]

It was inspired by one of Novorden's designs.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1239/tnu0.png

You basically have a gun tractor, or a towed anti-tank gun. You don't really have an effective tank hunter.

Why not reduce the length of the vehicle a great deal and simply mount the turret on top?

Well it appears to be trade length for height, or trade height for length. Perhaps I will use the rear-facing gun primarily for ambush scenarios due to its low profile and ability to drive away in the opposite direction, and devise an alternate model with a forward-facing gun for other purposes.

[Registug]

More forward-facing goodness:

(Image)

(Image)

Ew, a 75mm M3. Get that shit outta here.

You basically have a gun tractor, or a towed anti-tank gun. You don't really have an effective tank hunter.

Why not reduce the length of the vehicle a great deal and simply mount the turret on top?

that would increase height by a hilarious amount; it'd be taller than a Sherman at that point. Structural integrity of half-tracks in the era was questionable, and without an electric motor you'd have to hand crank the turret.

How would you shorten the vehicle, anyway? You can't exactly cut the tracks in half.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Halftrackers were like:
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ gib tank gun for fight tanks

So I put this together:
(Image)
M2 Halftrack fitted with a pair of 7.62x54mmR M1919 machine guns and a rear-facing ~88mm cannon for anti-tank purposes. I'd like to know whether this is a practical approach, how effective such a vehicle might be when faced with enemy armor, and what other applications it might also be suited for.

Why is it a rear-facing gun? The Israelis put a 90mm turret from an AML armoured car on one of their old halftracks and it worked just fine.

why in gods name would they do such a thing

[Sevvania]

How would you shorten the vehicle, anyway? You can't exactly cut the tracks in half.

I think there were variants that had rear wheels instead of treads, and that they were shorter than the models that had treads, but at that point it's not a halftrack anymore.

[Lydenburg]

More forward-facing goodness:

(Image)

(Image)

Ew, a 75mm M3. Get that shit outta here.

You basically have a gun tractor, or a towed anti-tank gun. You don't really have an effective tank hunter.

Why not reduce the length of the vehicle a great deal and simply mount the turret on top?

that would increase height by a hilarious amount; it'd be taller than a Sherman at that point. Structural integrity of half-tracks in the era was questionable, and without an electric motor you'd have to hand crank the turret.

How would you shorten the vehicle, anyway? You can't exactly cut the tracks in half.

No, but you can build a smaller cab. Look, if height's an issue simply forgo a gigantic turret like the 75mm M3 and pull off something more along the lines of what the IDF did with a GIAT 90mm. Structural integrity? The very fact that vehicles like these M3 hybrids existed proves that it can be done.

Most of all...

What is wrong with hand cranking the turret? Get a strong, experienced, crewman and he can even fire accurately on the move without stabilisers. Very difficult but I've watched it being demonstrated with the manual traverse on an Eland armoured car.

[Registug]

How would you shorten the vehicle, anyway? You can't exactly cut the tracks in half.

I think there were variants that had rear wheels instead of treads, and that they were shorter than the models that had treads, but at that point it's not a halftrack anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_Greyhound
???

Also, another thing against the turret idea, the gun would be too big for any turret put on the M3 half track. I don't think it's wide enough to have a large enough turret ring for an 88mm gun, let alone a 76.5mm.

No, but you can build a smaller cab. Look, if height's an issue simply forgo a gigantic turret like the 75mm M3 and pull off something more along the lines of what the IDF did with a GIAT 90mm. Structural integrity? The very fact that vehicles like these M3 hybrids existed proves that it can be done.

Most of all...

What is wrong with hand cranking the turret? Get a strong, experienced, crewman and he can even fire accurately on the move without stabilisers. Very difficult but I've watched it being demonstrated with the manual traverse on an Eland armoured car.

Difference is, the Israelis stuck a 90mm into a turret in what, the 50s/60s? We're talking 1941-43 here.

[Lydenburg]

How would you shorten the vehicle, anyway? You can't exactly cut the tracks in half.

I think there were variants that had rear wheels instead of treads, and that they were shorter than the models that had treads, but at that point it's not a halftrack anymore.

You're right. At that point may as well use an M6 Gun Motor Carriage.

Difference is, the Israelis stuck a 90mm into a turret in what, the 50s/60s? We're talking 1941-43 here.

Not possible during WWII if somebody had thought of it sooner?

[Registug]

Difference is, the Israelis stuck a 90mm into a turret in what, the 50s/60s? We're talking 1941-43 here.

Not possible during WWII if somebody had thought of it sooner?

but the GIAT F1 90mm was literally designed to be put into tiny fuckin' turrets. 90mm guns in WWII were not.

[Sevvania]

Not possible during WWII if somebody had thought of it sooner?

but the GIAT F1 90mm was literally designed to be put into tiny fuckin' turrets. 90mm guns in WWII were not.

Does the Israeli 90mm-equipped halftrack have the gun in an actual turret, or is the cannon just sticking out of where the passenger side of the cab used to be?

[Crookfur]

I suppose facing froward vs facing rearwards depends a lot on who the vehcile/gun belongs to and what it is for:

if its for armoured units or infatry support i.e moving forwards shooting targets of opertunity on the attack then froward facing is the order of the day.

if it belongs to the artillery and is basically a more mobile/portee AT gun that sets up on the defensive or in a position to to cover an offensive then rearward facing is the biz essepcially if you moutn it so that with the side panels down you cna fire and operate it over a stupily huge arc

[Lydenburg]

but the GIAT F1 90mm was literally designed to be put into tiny fuckin' turrets. 90mm guns in WWII were not.

Does the Israeli 90mm-equipped halftrack have the gun in an actual turret, or is the cannon just sticking out of where the passenger side of the cab used to be?

There's actually part of a cannibalised turret in there - came off the AML-90.

[Sevvania]

I suppose facing froward vs facing rearwards depends a lot on who the vehcile/gun belongs to and what it is for:

if its for armoured units or infatry support i.e moving forwards shooting targets of opertunity on the attack then froward facing is the order of the day.

if it belongs to the artillery and is basically a more mobile/portee AT gun that sets up on the defensive or in a position to to cover an offensive then rearward facing is the biz essepcially if you moutn it so that with the side panels down you cna fire and operate it over a stupily huge arc

*takes note*

Does the Israeli 90mm-equipped halftrack have the gun in an actual turret, or is the cannon just sticking out of where the passenger side of the cab used to be?

There's actually part of a cannibalised turret in there - came off the AML-90.

Ahh, I see.

[Velkanika]

Does the Israeli 90mm-equipped halftrack have the gun in an actual turret, or is the cannon just sticking out of where the passenger side of the cab used to be?

There's actually part of a cannibalised turret in there - came off the AML-90.

You basically are turning a half-track into a shitty light tank at this point. If you want a light tank, buy a light tank.

[Lydenburg]

There's actually part of a cannibalised turret in there - came off the AML-90.

You basically are turning a half-track into a shitty light tank at this point. If you want a light tank, buy a light tank.

What about the 75mm "Gun Motor Carriage"?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

the aml 90 is a perfectly fine little vehicle ... why anyone would stick its turret on a truck is beyond me

[Registug]

You basically are turning a half-track into a shitty light tank at this point. If you want a light tank, buy a light tank.

What about the 75mm "Gun Motor Carriage"?

It uses this gun

You won't be killing many tanks with that one. it's more for anti-infantry work and infantry support rather than tank killing.

[Purpelia]

What about the 75mm "Gun Motor Carriage"?

It uses this gun

You won't be killing many tanks with that one. it's more for anti-infantry work and infantry support rather than tank killing.

I disagree. A 75mm HE shot to the tracks, turret ring or anything else on a tank would still mess it up just fine. And in the time of petrol fueled tanks with no spal liners things get interesting.

And than we have this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Pak_97/38

You must remember that HEAT was first used as early back as 1941.

[Lydenburg]

the aml 90 is a perfectly fine little vehicle ... why anyone would stick its turret on a truck is beyond me

The smashing thing about those H-90 turrets was that you could fit them on just about anything. BTRs, Ratels, you name it. Hell, they even put one on a Saladin for trials.

http://www.jedsite.info/afv-bravo/bravo-btr/btr60_series/djaml90/plusaml90_001.jpg
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/LAND/RG34%20%281%29.JPG

[Registug]

It uses this gun

You won't be killing many tanks with that one. it's more for anti-infantry work and infantry support rather than tank killing.

I disagree. A 75mm HE shot to the tracks, turret ring or anything else on a tank would still mess it up just fine. And in the time of petrol fueled tanks with no spal liners things get interesting.

Nevermind, according to wiki AP shot from it could penetrate eight fucking centimetres of armour.

[Purpelia]

I disagree. A 75mm HE shot to the tracks, turret ring or anything else on a tank would still mess it up just fine. And in the time of petrol fueled tanks with no spal liners things get interesting.

Nevermind, according to wiki AP shot from it could penetrate eight fucking centimetres of armour.

Newer forget. French [item] = best [item]!

[Registug]

Nevermind, according to wiki AP shot from it could penetrate eight fucking centimetres of armour.

Newer forget. French [item] = best [item]!

Revision, eight centimetres was not as big as I thought it was