Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.V

[Khavar]

Which is what I was referring to before, you were talking about extra gears which confused me a little.

So let me get this straight, in a world war 2 tank, you want to add some extra clutches and reversing gear sets in order to have more reverse gears to enhance rearward mobility? That's what's being talked about, yes?

A slight interjection (though you likely both already know this), there were many armoured cars during WWII that had this feature. Some had a rear driving position, and some even had an extra crew member for the purpose. Not just WWII either. Check out Ferrets and Fox, for example.

[New Vihenia]

It's for my FanT side.

Just use Yoko Littner for this.. It'll work just fine.

Revised for some modern-day sense and sensibility.

M.70A3 'Mars' Main Battle Tank
Type: Main Battle Tank
Unit Cost: $14,750,000 NSD
Variants: M.70/ARV, M.70/AVLB, M.70/CEV

---

Weight: 54.5 tons
Length:

• Hull: 8.8 m
• Gun-Forward: 9.1 m

Width: 3.5 m
Height:

• Turret Roof: 2.2 m
• RWS: 2.7 m

Crew: 3

---

Armor: RHA, Composite

• Modular Applique: RHA/Composite/NERA/ERA

Protection:

• Frontal: 120mm APFSDS, 155mm HEAT
• Side: 40mm APFSDS
• Top: 20mm AP, 155mm HE Shrapnel
• Rear: 15.5mm AP

Passive Protection: Radar-Absorbent Paint, Multi-Spectral Camouflage Netting
Active Protection: MUSS, AMAP-ADS

---

Main Armament: 150mm L/30 Smoothbore Gun

• Ready: 24 Rounds in Bustle
• Stowed: 24 Rounds in Hull

Secondary Armament:

• 15.5mm Coaxial Machinegun (1,200 Rounds)
• 7.62mm RWS Machinegun (600 Rounds)

---

Engine: 1750 hp Multifuel Turbine
Power/Weight Ratio: 32.11 hp/ton
Transmission: Hydraulic Automatic; Five Forward/Two Reverse Gears
Suspension: Hydropneumatic
Ground Clearance: 0.5 m (± 0.3 m)
Operational Range: 600 km
Speed:

• Road (Governed): 75km/h
• Off-Road: 60km/h

Not using 20mm RWS and Co-ax...Not using guided missiles=Not MBT-70

[Purpelia]

Yes. Also, as far as I understand there are no extra gears per se. There is only a single additional step in the clutch that mechanically connects the existing shaft going out of the gear box with either a direct input or a direction reversing gear. As in, it's not two gear boxes pointing opposite ways next to one another. It's one gear box and one binary forward or reverse selector.

You could do it with just one drive shaft, a pair of conical gears and a selector to move the input shaft left or right really.

Which is what I was referring to before, you were talking about extra gears which confused me a little.

So let me get this straight, in a world war 2 tank, you want to add some extra clutches and reversing gear sets in order to have more reverse gears to enhance rearward mobility? That's what's being talked about, yes?

Basically yes, you can accomplish it with just one drive shaft and two oppositely facing conical gears, both of whom are facing 90 degrees to the entry shaft. That way, if you move the entry shaft toward one end or the other it drives the output shaft forward or reverse respectively.

That video I linked to shows a tank where it was done. And while they don't explain the system you can guess it based on the fact that shifting gears consists of shifting into gear and than into direction.

Which is what I was referring to before, you were talking about extra gears which confused me a little.

So let me get this straight, in a world war 2 tank, you want to add some extra clutches and reversing gear sets in order to have more reverse gears to enhance rearward mobility? That's what's being talked about, yes?

A slight interjection (though you likely both already know this), there were many armoured cars during WWII that had this feature. Some had a rear driving position, and some even had an extra crew member for the purpose. Not just WWII either. Check out Ferrets and Fox, for example.

I even linked to a video of one.

[Imperializt Russia]

Can 12.7mm be effective against the tops of tanks? If not: then what is the minimum caliber?

Modern times? 12.7 mm was unable to pen WW2 era tank armor. It needed 20 mm canons.
Edit: 30 mm Vulcan guns of the A 10 are known to penetrate armor. But they use a special type of ammo for that.

Well, yes, it uses armour-piercing ammunition. Just so happens it's depleted uranium.

*Note, Avenger gun.
Vulcan is the 20mm gun.

hmmm, alright.
I'm aware of the Vulcan, I'm making an anti-tank rifle.

Such a round would produce extreme recoil. pretty much may torn someone's arm off. So honestly I doubt about its use as a anti tank rifle.

A tripod-mounted 30x165mm AT "rifle" does exist.

The best counter to this (dust skirts) have been employed by a few tanks in NS, and even fewer RL.

Like hell "dust skirt" will bring up a google result.
Is it just a really low armour skirt, or are there actually dust suppression mechanisms in it?
If not, would there be significant value to a dust suppression system?

Revised for some modern-day sense and sensibility.

M.70A3 'Mars' Main Battle Tank
Type: Main Battle Tank
Unit Cost: $14,750,000 NSD
Variants: M.70/ARV, M.70/AVLB, M.70/CEV

---

Weight: 54.5 tons
Length:

• Hull: 8.8 m
• Gun-Forward: 9.1 m

Width: 3.5 m
Height:

• Turret Roof: 2.2 m
• RWS: 2.7 m

Crew: 3

---

Armor: RHA, Composite

• Modular Applique: RHA/Composite/NERA/ERA

Protection:

• Frontal: 120mm APFSDS, 155mm HEAT
• Side: 40mm APFSDS
• Top: 20mm AP, 155mm HE Shrapnel
• Rear: 15.5mm AP

Passive Protection: Radar-Absorbent Paint, Multi-Spectral Camouflage Netting
Active Protection: MUSS, AMAP-ADS

---

Main Armament: 150mm L/30 Smoothbore Gun

• Ready: 24 Rounds in Bustle
• Stowed: 24 Rounds in Hull

Secondary Armament:

• 15.5mm Coaxial Machinegun (1,200 Rounds)
• 7.62mm RWS Machinegun (600 Rounds)

---

Engine: 1750 hp Multifuel Turbine
Power/Weight Ratio: 32.11 hp/ton
Transmission: Hydraulic Automatic; Five Forward/Two Reverse Gears
Suspension: Hydropneumatic
Ground Clearance: 0.5 m (± 0.3 m)
Operational Range: 600 km
Speed:

• Road (Governed): 75km/h
• Off-Road: 60km/h

>:ns: mbt-70
>replaces 20mm autocannon with 7.62mm machine gun with low stowage
:wut:

[Yezidistan]

Since my question got burried, I'll ask again. Should I go with 23mm autocannon / 7.62 coaxial MG for my MT-LB-based IFV, or 14.5mm MG / 35mm coaxial AGL?

[Immoren]

Since my question got burried, I'll ask again. Should I go with 23mm autocannon / 7.62 coaxial MG for my MT-LB-based IFV, or 14.5mm MG / 35mm coaxial AGL?

Why not both?

[Purpelia]

Since my question got burried, I'll ask again. Should I go with 23mm autocannon / 7.62 coaxial MG for my MT-LB-based IFV, or 14.5mm MG / 35mm coaxial AGL?

Honestly I'd go with either a 30mm/7.62 coaxial combo or a 14.5, which ever you prefer. Anything less than 30mm won't really be worth it in terms of autocanons, so you might as well not bother. And anything more than 30mm is going to be far too large or in the case of an AGL pointless.

My own tank uses a 123mm main gun and a 30mm autocanon chambered in 30x173mm.

Than again, a 23mm AC would basically be the same as on an AMX-30 just a tad better. So French... so yea, go for that.

[Dostanuot Loj]

The best counter to this (dust skirts) have been employed by a few tanks in NS, and even fewer RL.

Like hell "dust skirt" will bring up a google result.
Is it just a really low armour skirt, or are there actually dust suppression mechanisms in it?
If not, would there be significant value to a dust suppression system?

I'm not sure how you would have a "dust suppression system", as it is everywhere.
But here is a picture of a Chally 2 sporting a dust skirt for Iraq.


That's right, canvass hanging from the bottom of the armoured skirt.

If you've seen most variants of the MCA-7, you've seen them.

Believe it or not that is so effective to keeping the dust and dirt kicked up by tanks down that a tank firing its gun will kick up more then it will moving with these. It's a real model of KISS.

[Purpelia]

Any idea how it would perform in the muddy marshes of say Eastern Europe?

[Dostanuot Loj]

Since my question got burried, I'll ask again. Should I go with 23mm autocannon / 7.62 coaxial MG for my MT-LB-based IFV, or 14.5mm MG / 35mm coaxial AGL?

Honestly I'd go with either a 30mm/7.62 coaxial combo or a 14.5, which ever you prefer. Anything less than 30mm won't really be worth it in terms of autocanons, so you might as well not bother. And anything more than 30mm is going to be far too large or in the case of an AGL pointless.

My own tank uses a 123mm main gun and a 30mm autocanon chambered in 30x173mm.

Than again, a 23mm AC would basically be the same as on an AMX-30 just a tad better. So French... so yea, go for that.

Actually, anything under 30mm is fine. Your IFV's goal for the main gun should not be killing AFVs but supporting infantry, so any autocannon that can be useful is good. You want fragmentation, versatility, etc. etc. Larger will allow more options, but less ammo. If you're going on the cheap side, go with what you have in inventory, so if you have 23mm go with it (There are some twin-23mm turrets around RL, and have been fitted to MT-LB).

If you're rich, modern, and western, new gun with air burst capability.

But definitely get the 23mm. Add the coaxial, and add the GPMG too. Options! Options are a must!

[Dostanuot Loj]

Any idea how it would perform in the muddy marshes of say Eastern Europe?

I have been told they work there too, but operationally the hassle involved in them getting bogged down/torn off is not worth the worry.

If you really think you need to hide armoured formations, give it a go, but I think anyone who thinks they can make any kind of dent in the physical detection of their tank formations at that level is kidding themselves.

[Registug]

Any idea how it would perform in the muddy marshes of say Eastern Europe?

I have been told they work there too, but operationally the hassle involved in them getting bogged down/torn off is not worth the worry.

If you really think you need to hide armoured formations, give it a go, but I think anyone who thinks they can make any kind of dent in the physical detection of their tank formations at that level is kidding themselves.

Honestly though, what are the downsides to using a dust skirt?

[Novorden]

WIP for Premislyd

[Registug]

(Image)
WIP for Premislyd

No idea what to think about this

Any stats?

[Dostanuot Loj]

I have been told they work there too, but operationally the hassle involved in them getting bogged down/torn off is not worth the worry.

If you really think you need to hide armoured formations, give it a go, but I think anyone who thinks they can make any kind of dent in the physical detection of their tank formations at that level is kidding themselves.

Honestly though, what are the downsides to using a dust skirt?

They snag on things, get torn off, and you have to replace them. You have to pick them up too, because littering is bad mmmkay.

[Novorden]

(Image)
WIP for Premislyd

No idea what to think about this

Any stats?

I was asked for a design based on the Panzer 68.

[Rich and Corporations]

I'm not sure what the Turks actually intend, but it wouldn't work out that way in practice. For one, whether you use an electric or a mechanical transmission, you still need an engine, and this is where the exhaust comes from. Unless you go 100% battery, but batteries also get hot and you will get pitiful range.

In any event, a tank's largest thermal signature is from the running gear. An Abrams after running for a while can exhibit temperatures exceeding 300 F on the roadwheels and inner surface of the tracks.

Fun story: A tank's largest thermal signature is from the running gear, but not because it gets hot.

When a tank drives anywhere but pavement, it throws up dirt and dust into the air. This dust is as warm as the ground, which means it is likely a different temperature then the air. These coulds show up on thermal sights.

So, honestly, if your tanks are moving, they're going to show up on FLIR like a lighthouse on a clear calm night. The more tanks, the worse. This also applies to trucks, infantry, horses, sleds, and high speed watercraft.

The best counter to this (dust skirts) have been employed by a few tanks in NS, and even fewer RL.

Running gear gets very hot. According to DTIC, the Abram's running gear gets around 200 F.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Fun story: A tank's largest thermal signature is from the running gear, but not because it gets hot.

When a tank drives anywhere but pavement, it throws up dirt and dust into the air. This dust is as warm as the ground, which means it is likely a different temperature then the air. These coulds show up on thermal sights.

So, honestly, if your tanks are moving, they're going to show up on FLIR like a lighthouse on a clear calm night. The more tanks, the worse. This also applies to trucks, infantry, horses, sleds, and high speed watercraft.

The best counter to this (dust skirts) have been employed by a few tanks in NS, and even fewer RL.

Running gear gets very hot. According to DTIC, the Abram's running gear gets around 200 F.

Oh I'm well aware of that.
The problem is, unless you are looking effectively right at the vehicle, it doesn't make a huge difference. Whereas the biggest thermal signature is all that dust, and exhaust for that matter, floating around and above your vehicle which is visible over hills, past buildings, etc. etc.

The amount of friction in the running gear is hilarious. But maximum temperature of any one part is only a small part.

[Novorden]

(Image)
WIP for Premislyd

[Imperializt Russia]

Like hell "dust skirt" will bring up a google result.
Is it just a really low armour skirt, or are there actually dust suppression mechanisms in it?
If not, would there be significant value to a dust suppression system?

I'm not sure how you would have a "dust suppression system", as it is everywhere.
But here is a picture of a Chally 2 sporting a dust skirt for Iraq.


That's right, canvass hanging from the bottom of the armoured skirt.

If you've seen most variants of the MCA-7, you've seen them.

Believe it or not that is so effective to keeping the dust and dirt kicked up by tanks down that a tank firing its gun will kick up more then it will moving with these. It's a real model of KISS.

Air or water system just trying to limit the amount that gets kicked up. Nothing extraordinarily complex but obviously more so than a dust skirt.

[United States of PA]

Air might kick up even more dust unless your proposing a vaccum system to suck generated dust up. Water raises the question of where do you store the aforementioned water? Do you take away fuel storage or what?

[Dostanuot Loj]

Air might kick up even more dust unless your proposing a vaccum system to suck generated dust up. Water raises the question of where do you store the aforementioned water? Do you take away fuel storage or what?

Chally redirects its exhaust down onto the sprocket area with the Op Herrick kit to spread the thermal signature down over the ground. It also, to a very limited degree, is supposed to help keep the dust kicked from the sprocket down. Probably a side bonus though, like getting an extra MM in your box. Nothing you'd really notice much.

[United States of PA]

I'd just stick to the dust skirts meself. Not really perfect but than again, better than what Abrams has.

[Imperializt Russia]

Air might kick up even more dust unless your proposing a vaccum system to suck generated dust up. Water raises the question of where do you store the aforementioned water? Do you take away fuel storage or what?

Chally redirects its exhaust down onto the sprocket area with the Op Herrick kit to spread the thermal signature down over the ground. It also, to a very limited degree, is supposed to help keep the dust kicked from the sprocket down. Probably a side bonus though, like getting an extra MM in your box. Nothing you'd really notice much.

In that case, I may consider it.

[Questers]

how many times to repost tank to get comment?