Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.V

[Vorkova]

A valid strategy against distant targets?

It's called "suppressing fire".
When you have a couple dozen guys and a handful of vehicles doing it, accuracy is not at all required.

Though the Georgian conflict was a huge wakeup call for Russia and their forces.

I didn't think of it in terms of suppressing fire, that could actually be useful. I originally thought it was just badly trained soldiers trying to be cool.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I'm positive this is the video in question But it isn't shown in its' entirety. The full clip clearly shows soldiers firing from the hip. Are they Georgians or Russians?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Because a couple of Youtube videos are indicative of an entire military's capability.

hey look the US and western nations all suck too!

At least those aren't during an actual firefight.

[Transnapastain]

Because a couple of Youtube videos are indicative of an entire military's capability.

hey look the US and western nations all suck too!

At least those aren't during an actual firefight.

but look how untrained and undisciplined they are, goofing off, expending ordinance on washing machines, ruining cars over with tanks, knocking over valuable latrines, and look at how they flub up their training, and even the failure rate of their weapons systems

They are obviously nothing more than an undisciplined rabble. Surely this impacts their battle performance!

[maximum sarcasm achieved]

[Vorkova]

I'm positive this is the video in question But it isn't shown in its' entirety. The full clip clearly shows soldiers firing from the hip. Are they Georgians or Russians?

I'm not sure. The Russian T-90s with ERA look awesome though.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

At least those aren't during an actual firefight.

but look how untrained and undisciplined they are, goofing off, expending ordinance on washing machines, ruining cars over with tanks, knocking over valuable latrines, and look at how they flub up their training, and even the failure rate of their weapons systems

They are obviously nothing more than an undisciplined rabble. Surely this impacts their battle performance!

[maximum sarcasm achieved]

OK. Next time we serve together I'll shoot my rifle while actually aiming at something and you do your thing.

At least in Western militaries incompetence isn't tacitly endorsed as seems to be the case with the Russians. There will always be bad soldiers, but a military can be judged by how it deals with them. Tell me, did anything happen to the soldiers that attacked or robbed TV crews during the war? I guess not.

EDIT: I can pull out evidence of Western forces behaving poorly too. Here's a video of the famous Blackwater PMC . Blackwater isn't even called Blackwater anymore. Shitstorm after shitstorm ensued with both the Iraqi and US govt.

[Virana]

hey look the US and western nations all suck too!

You didn't know that already?

[Purpelia]

And that my good sirs and madams is why Purpelian soldiers are not allowed to film them self during active service or in uniform outside of orchestrated propaganda.

[Dostanuot Loj]

I'm positive this is the video in question But it isn't shown in its' entirety. The full clip clearly shows soldiers firing from the hip. Are they Georgians or Russians?

I'm not sure. The Russian T-90s with ERA look awesome though.

The vehicles around 2:20 in the video (Only tanks I found in a quick skim) are all T-72B.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I'm not sure. The Russian T-90s with ERA look awesome though.

The vehicles around 2:20 in the video (Only tanks I found in a quick skim) are all T-72B.

I'm specifically referring to the 2:30 scene

[Transnapastain]

but look how untrained and undisciplined they are, goofing off, expending ordinance on washing machines, ruining cars over with tanks, knocking over valuable latrines, and look at how they flub up their training, and even the failure rate of their weapons systems

They are obviously nothing more than an undisciplined rabble. Surely this impacts their battle performance!

[maximum sarcasm achieved]

OK. Next time we serve together I'll shoot my rifle while actually aiming at something and you do your thing.

At least in Western militaries incompetence isn't tacitly endorsed as seems to be the case with the Russians. There will always be bad soldiers, but a military can be judged by how it deals with them. Tell me, did anything happen to the soldiers that attacked or robbed TV crews during the war? I guess not.

You have just gone from discussing their ability in battle to how they treat occupied areas....two totally different categories. Both sides of that war committed human rights violations according to HRW. Does it make it right, nope. Does it mean the entire Russian military is shit? Nope. Again, what are we discussing, their ability in battle, or the human rights violations committed afterward?

Also you better call his commander, he's aiming! TO THE GULOG COMRADE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUXSZRp0xCc#t=111

That one too. Also, was that possibly the video you were looking for. I think, maybe, I saw some hip-firing in there?

[Dostanuot Loj]

The vehicles around 2:20 in the video (Only tanks I found in a quick skim) are all T-72B.

I'm specifically referring to the 2:30 scene

2:31 has a BMD.

At 2:25 is another line of vehicles, which are a mix of T-72AV and T-72B variants. In fact, the same mix is present from 2:20 through to 2:26. There is not a single T-90 in that video.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

OK. Next time we serve together I'll shoot my rifle while actually aiming at something and you do your thing.

At least in Western militaries incompetence isn't tacitly endorsed as seems to be the case with the Russians. There will always be bad soldiers, but a military can be judged by how it deals with them. Tell me, did anything happen to the soldiers that attacked or robbed TV crews during the war? I guess not.

You have just gone from discussing their ability in battle to how they treat occupied areas....two totally different categories. Both sides of that war committed human rights violations according to HRW. Does it make it right, nope. Does it mean the entire Russian military is shit? Nope. Again, what are we discussing, their ability in battle, or the human rights violations committed afterward?

Also you better call his commander, he's aiming! TO THE GULOG COMRADE!

Some more legendary Russian transparency and PR.

Add fighting alongside dubious militias to the list.

Perhaps that guy shooting his gun from the hip was a rare event, perhaps not. The main thing that troubles me is discipline and how closely rules of engagement are followed. Or more specifically how situations where soldiers step outside the line are handled. e.g. attacking the press, robbing civilians, making them disappear, you know, that kind of stuff. I suspect that line isn't even there though and barbarity is widely but tacitly endorsed.

[Transnapastain]

You have just gone from discussing their ability in battle to how they treat occupied areas....two totally different categories. Both sides of that war committed human rights violations according to HRW. Does it make it right, nope. Does it mean the entire Russian military is shit? Nope. Again, what are we discussing, their ability in battle, or the human rights violations committed afterward?

Also you better call his commander, he's aiming! TO THE GULOG COMRADE!

Some more legendary Russian transparency and PR.

Add fighting alongside dubious militias to the list.

Perhaps that guy shooting his gun from the hip was a rare event, perhaps not. The main thing that troubles me is discipline and how closely rules of engagement are followed.

Which does not necessarily reflect their actual ability in combat. I'll be the first to admit the Russians tend to give no fucks regarding humans rights, that doesn't make them shit soldiers in terms of tactical and strategic ability.

Also, I edited my post with another video, was that maybe one you were looking for? I may have seen some hip firing in there, too.

[Imperializt Russia]

It was quite difficult to work out what was going on from just four seconds and a limited field of view. Judging from the T-72 graphic, each cartridge has that hinged hoist (I assume this is what you were describing as the cassette?), which the loading arm raises, actions, levels and loads?
(Image)
I knew I'd seen something similar to this description before.
So the propellant is physically connected to the round, like the two halves of the Kobra missile?

I'm thinking you might be getting convoluted on this.

The image you posted is T-64/80 autoloader. That is how they are stored.
The second video I posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY) is a T-80, and clearly shows the process.

You will note from 0:09 to 0:19 it shows a blank round being loaded and fired. As the breach recoils the cartridge stub is ejected right into the spent stub collector, when the next round is loaded the stub is placed in its cassette and kept. This is why it does not need to be ejected.

On the T-72/90 the propellent and round are stored in a single cassette piece with one over the other, two stories if you will. The cassette moves into place vertically, a rammer pushes the round in, then the cassette moves again vertically, and the propellent is pushed in. When the stub is ejected a tray catches it and throws it out the back of the turret when the next round is loaded.

Sorry, one of the things that was confusing me was how does that cassette pick up cartridges (since Mat didn't include it in his diagram).
Looking at the T-72 graphic, it occurred to me that each shell must have its own cassette in the T-64 loader - like on the T-72. Right?

I posted the Kobra because of what you mentioned about the cassette being hinged. I knew I'd seen a picture of a cartridge for the T-80 in some peculiar-looking hinged contraption, and it finally occurred to me this was its autoloader cassette.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Some more legendary Russian transparency and PR.

Add fighting alongside dubious militias to the list.

Perhaps that guy shooting his gun from the hip was a rare event, perhaps not. The main thing that troubles me is discipline and how closely rules of engagement are followed.

Which does not necessarily reflect their actual ability in combat. I'll be the first to admit the Russians tend to give no fucks regarding humans rights, that doesn't make them shit soldiers in terms of tactical and strategic ability.

Also, I edited my post with another video, was that maybe one you were looking for? I may have seen some hip firing in there, too.

Fair enough.

And thanks. That is indeed the video in question. Although ironically I find it hard now to spot where exactly the hip firing is taking place but I'll keep watching. After all, are they or are they not Russian forces? If they are, I think they might be Chechen?

EDIT: That looks like a BMD-1? I don't think Georgians had any, did they? Also they appear to be pretty unfazed by that (most probably Russian) helicopter flying by.

[Krazeria]

for a military that everyone seems to think is massively incompetent, the Russian army completely crushed the US trained Georgian army in only 9 days, while incurring less then 100 casualties regardless of the fact there were some major communications issues and the bulk of russian forces being underpaid conscripts.

[Transnapastain]

Which does not necessarily reflect their actual ability in combat. I'll be the first to admit the Russians tend to give no fucks regarding humans rights, that doesn't make them shit soldiers in terms of tactical and strategic ability.

Also, I edited my post with another video, was that maybe one you were looking for? I may have seen some hip firing in there, too.

Fair enough.

And thanks. That is indeed the video in question. Although ironically I find it hard now to spot where exactly the hip firing is taking place but I'll keep watching. After all, are they or are they not Russian forces? If they are, I think they might be Chechen?

I am fairly confident from the description they are Russian, since the video says its a ambush on a Russian convoy, and they seem to be on the defensive around that BMP-3.

Maybe what you saw was them holding the rifle at the hip? Because I'm seeing a lot of unclear shots, but most of what I can see is aimed firing.

[Krazeria]

Which does not necessarily reflect their actual ability in combat. I'll be the first to admit the Russians tend to give no fucks regarding humans rights, that doesn't make them shit soldiers in terms of tactical and strategic ability.

Also, I edited my post with another video, was that maybe one you were looking for? I may have seen some hip firing in there, too.

Fair enough.

And thanks. That is indeed the video in question. Although ironically I find it hard now to spot where exactly the hip firing is taking place but I'll keep watching. After all, are they or are they not Russian forces? If they are, I think they might be Chechen?

Could be chechen or south ossetin (They supported the russian forces)

[Oaledonia]

for a military that everyone seems to think is massively incompetent, the Russian army completely crushed the US trained Georgian army in only 9 days, while incurring less then 100 casualties regardless of the fact there were some major communications issues and the bulk of russian forces being underpaid conscripts.

Just because Georgia was Us trained doesn't mean that they executed it, at all.
Nor am I an advocate that Russia is incompetent.

[Imperializt Russia]

You can tell right from the start the T-64/80 is faster, more efficient, and takes up less space. But the T-72/90 is easier to manufacture and maintain, therefore cheaper.

Can it really be that much simpler though?
From my non-mechanical basic understanding of it from these videos, the T-72-type has a series of extra movements which would probably require additional machinery to do, would it not?
Or does the T-72 type also forgo the cartridge selection mechanism and other features?

[Krazeria]

for a military that everyone seems to think is massively incompetent, the Russian army completely crushed the US trained Georgian army in only 9 days, while incurring less then 100 casualties regardless of the fact there were some major communications issues and the bulk of russian forces being underpaid conscripts.

Just because Georgia was Us trained doesn't mean that they executed it, at all.
Nor am I an advocate that Russia is incompetent.

I understand, I was just pointing out that gorgian military was't a completely untrained rabble

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

How did I mistake a BMP-3 for a BMD-1? I think the lack of sleep is taking its' toll.

[Oaledonia]

Just because Georgia was Us trained doesn't mean that they executed it, at all.
Nor am I an advocate that Russia is incompetent.

I understand, I was just pointing out that gorgian military was't a completely untrained rabble

The way they went about combat? They may has well have been.

[Krazeria]

I understand, I was just pointing out that gorgian military was't a completely untrained rabble

The way they went about combat? They may has well have been.

hum, they did shoot down a few russian jets (I don't recall which types (lack of sleep))

even if the gorgian war didn't do much to test the Russian military, I think we can all agree that the second Chechnya war is a whole other can of beans