Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.V

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I don't understand where you're going with this.. of course you don't just remove the 100mm and slap the 125mm in just like that. By "just fine" I meant that they can withstand the recoil of a HV 125mm gun, they can retain decent ammo capacity, and so on.

You'd have to replace the turret, the powerplant, the autoloader, heavily modify the hull, install a new FCS and appropriate electronics (and a fair bit more) - by the point at which you do that, you effectively have a new tank. You can convert a T-55 into what is essentially a cramped T-72, fair does, but if you look at the price tag of a full structural overhaul it'd probably cost as much to just buy a T-72 and bring it up to the same standards.

Why exactly do you think you'd need a different powerplant? The T-55 would benefit from a different turret anyways. Replace the carrousel with a bustle autoloader.

[Lemanrussland]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

I always cringe when I see the SAA operating their vehicles like this in cities. Driving down narrow city streets, buttoned up, no dismounts out... ackkk.

The video of an unsupported, helpless SAA T-72 platoon being attacked by FSA anti-tank teams with RPG-29s is one of the worst examples of that.

[Oaledonia]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

I always cringe when I see the SAA operating their vehicles like this in cities. Driving down narrow city streets, buttoned up, no dismounts out... ackkk.

The video of an unsupported, helpless SAA T-72 platoon being attacked by FSA anti-tank teams with RPG-29s is one of the worst examples of that.

Anyone know why the gun slowly lowered, then shot back up really quickly?

[Vorkova]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

Drifting in a BMP. Now that's a real sport.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Here you go. At some point I will attempt a better drawing. I've sort of got it taped now tho.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/870 ... 20this.png

Not quite.

When the cassette (for lack of a better word) comes into place, the arm raises the shell to vertical. But rather then stack it atop the propellent, it stays beside the propellent (forward of it in reference to the gun technically). Propellant is stored pointing downward, so that when the arm raises the round to the breach to load, the projectile is pivoted counter clockwise (from gunner's side view) and the propellent clockwise, with the pivot point the hinge at the bottom between the two.

You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JV7jN925sY

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

You know what'd be really funny, a FSA kid with an RPG-7 running after them

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

I always cringe when I see the SAA operating their vehicles like this in cities. Driving down narrow city streets, buttoned up, no dismounts out... ackkk.

The video of an unsupported, helpless SAA T-72 platoon being attacked by FSA anti-tank teams with RPG-29s is one of the worst best examples of that.

There. Fixed that for you.

What do you expect? Lack of proper discipline and training seems to be a recurring theme throughout the "Eastern" world, if you can call it that. Next on the list: Russian soldiers firing from the hip in Georgia.

[Imperializt Russia]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

Sick skills. Looks like the BMP's already taken some kind of shell to its left side, and when it turns right again, is it just me, or is its right track stopped? It definitely doesn't look to be moving as fast as its left track.

Here you go. At some point I will attempt a better drawing. I've sort of got it taped now tho.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/870 ... 20this.png

Not quite.

When the cassette (for lack of a better word) comes into place, the arm raises the shell to vertical. But rather then stack it atop the propellent, it stays beside the propellent (forward of it in reference to the gun technically). Propellant is stored pointing downward, so that when the arm raises the round to the breach to load, the projectile is pivoted counter clockwise (from gunner's side view) and the propellent clockwise, with the pivot point the hinge at the bottom between the two.

You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JV7jN925sY

So essentially, there are two hoists in the cassette and a rammer assembly?
The rammer looks pretty flimsy when it withdraws though, what's up with that?

Is there something on the shell itself that engages with the barrel to lock it into position? Or does it just fall back onto its propellant?

[Oaledonia]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

You know what'd be really funny, a FSA kid with an RPG-7 running after them

Sometimes it amazes me on how poorly they are trained

[Lemanrussland]

I always cringe when I see the SAA operating their vehicles like this in cities. Driving down narrow city streets, buttoned up, no dismounts out... ackkk.

The video of an unsupported, helpless SAA T-72 platoon being attacked by FSA anti-tank teams with RPG-29s is one of the worst best examples of that.

There. Fixed that for you.

What do you expect? Lack of proper discipline and training seems to be a recurring theme throughout the "Eastern" world, if you can call it that. Next on the list: Russian soldiers firing from the hip in Georgia.

Well, I meant "worst" as in "most cringe-worthy", wasn't saying it was a bad example. Sorry for the confusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbHcA6mXX7o

This one is pretty bad as well. Literally just a bunched up column of armored vehicles sitting there taking contact with no infantry support to be seen. As for your point, I agree. I am perhaps expecting a little much from them, though I would think they eventually learn some lessons from the prolonged fighting.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Rumor has it Syria is using street racers as drivers now

Sick skills. Looks like the BMP's already taken some kind of shell to its left side, and when it turns right again, is it just me, or is its right track stopped? It definitely doesn't look to be moving as fast as its left track.

Not quite.

When the cassette (for lack of a better word) comes into place, the arm raises the shell to vertical. But rather then stack it atop the propellent, it stays beside the propellent (forward of it in reference to the gun technically). Propellant is stored pointing downward, so that when the arm raises the round to the breach to load, the projectile is pivoted counter clockwise (from gunner's side view) and the propellent clockwise, with the pivot point the hinge at the bottom between the two.

You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JV7jN925sY

So essentially, there are two hoists in the cassette and a rammer assembly?
The rammer looks pretty flimsy when it withdraws though, what's up with that?

Is there something on the shell itself that engages with the barrel to lock it into position? Or does it just fall back onto its propellant?

The rammer doesn't have to be very strong.

The propellent/round are in the same case, with a hinge. And the hoist moves both.

More videos. This one shows the T-64's mechanical indexer for specifying round type so the autoloader computer can pick the right round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32slFNgbOo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY

Now you can compare that with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIaoOabF_0
Which is the T-72/90 autoloader. You can tell right from the start the T-64/80 is faster, more efficient, and takes up less space. But the T-72/90 is easier to manufacture and maintain, therefore cheaper.

[Oaledonia]

I remember hearing on an interview that the Syrians idea of "mechanized warfare" meant overwhelming the enemy with armored vehicles. In the video, they had thrown BMPs carrying ammunition into the fight instead of carrying infantry, and they extensively used IFVs simply as resupply vehicles. Then, SPAAGS happened. Which, they are now using in conjunction with T-72s for their ability to have absurd gun elevation.

[Vorkova]

Next on the list: Russian soldiers firing from the hip in Georgia.

Really?

[Oaledonia]

Next on the list: Russian soldiers firing from the hip in Georgia.

Really?

Close

[Imperializt Russia]

Sick skills. Looks like the BMP's already taken some kind of shell to its left side, and when it turns right again, is it just me, or is its right track stopped? It definitely doesn't look to be moving as fast as its left track.
So essentially, there are two hoists in the cassette and a rammer assembly?
The rammer looks pretty flimsy when it withdraws though, what's up with that?

Is there something on the shell itself that engages with the barrel to lock it into position? Or does it just fall back onto its propellant?

The rammer doesn't have to be very strong.

The propellent/round are in the same case, with a hinge. And the hoist moves both.

More videos. This one shows the T-64's mechanical indexer for specifying round type so the autoloader computer can pick the right round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32slFNgbOo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY

Now you can compare that with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIaoOabF_0
Which is the T-72/90 autoloader. You can tell right from the start the T-64/80 is faster, more efficient, and takes up less space. But the T-72/90 is easier to manufacture and maintain, therefore cheaper.

It was quite difficult to work out what was going on from just four seconds and a limited field of view. Judging from the T-72 graphic, each cartridge has that hinged hoist (I assume this is what you were describing as the cassette?), which the loading arm raises, actions, levels and loads?

I knew I'd seen something similar to this description before.
So the propellant is physically connected to the round, like the two halves of the Kobra missile?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Next on the list: Russian soldiers firing from the hip in Georgia.

Really?

There is this one video where there are a bunch of AFVs around on a street (highway?) The reporter/cameraman lay down on the ground iirc and they film slightly upwards. You can clearly see the Russians firing from the hip at some distant targets. I'll show it to you when I find it.

[Vorkova]

Really?

There is this one video where there are a bunch of AFVs around on a street (highway?) The reporter/cameraman lay down on the ground iirc and they film slightly upwards. You can clearly see the Russians firing from the hip at some distant targets. I'll show it to you when I find it.

And I'm basing my military off of theirs... Seriously, how could they be that incompetent?

[Purpelia]

There is this one video where there are a bunch of AFVs around on a street (highway?) The reporter/cameraman lay down on the ground iirc and they film slightly upwards. You can clearly see the Russians firing from the hip at some distant targets. I'll show it to you when I find it.

And I'm basing my military off of theirs... Seriously, how could they be that incompetent?

Because walking fire from the hip to suppress enemies is totally not a valid strategy...

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

There is this one video where there are a bunch of AFVs around on a street (highway?) The reporter/cameraman lay down on the ground iirc and they film slightly upwards. You can clearly see the Russians firing from the hip at some distant targets. I'll show it to you when I find it.

And I'm basing my military off of theirs... Seriously, how could they be that incompetent?

Maybe I'm mistaking Georgians for Russians but I don't think so. I should find it any minute now and will post to confirm

[Vorkova]

And I'm basing my military off of theirs... Seriously, how could they be that incompetent?

Because walking fire from the hip to suppress enemies is totally not a valid strategy...

A valid strategy against distant targets?

[Transnapastain]

Because a couple of Youtube videos are indicative of an entire military's capability.

hey look the US and western nations all suck too!

[Purpelia]

Because walking fire from the hip to suppress enemies is totally not a valid strategy...

A valid strategy against distant targets?

If they are too distant to reliably hit why not? I mean, if someone is 1000m away from you it does not matter how you shoot as long as stuff is going down range. You are not going to hit anyway.

At least that's my logic.

[Imperializt Russia]

Because walking fire from the hip to suppress enemies is totally not a valid strategy...

A valid strategy against distant targets?

It's called "suppressing fire".
When you have a couple dozen guys and a handful of vehicles doing it, accuracy is not at all required.
Firing ports have exceedingly limited accuracy, if any at all, but the idea is to send rounds in someone's general direction and make them get down.

Though the Georgian conflict was a huge wakeup call for Russia and their forces.

[Oaledonia]

Because a couple of Youtube videos are indicative of an entire military's capability.

In some cases...

[Dostanuot Loj]

The rammer doesn't have to be very strong.

The propellent/round are in the same case, with a hinge. And the hoist moves both.

More videos. This one shows the T-64's mechanical indexer for specifying round type so the autoloader computer can pick the right round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32slFNgbOo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY

Now you can compare that with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIaoOabF_0
Which is the T-72/90 autoloader. You can tell right from the start the T-64/80 is faster, more efficient, and takes up less space. But the T-72/90 is easier to manufacture and maintain, therefore cheaper.

It was quite difficult to work out what was going on from just four seconds and a limited field of view. Judging from the T-72 graphic, each cartridge has that hinged hoist (I assume this is what you were describing as the cassette?), which the loading arm raises, actions, levels and loads?

I knew I'd seen something similar to this description before.
So the propellant is physically connected to the round, like the two halves of the Kobra missile?

I'm thinking you might be getting convoluted on this.

The image you posted is T-64/80 autoloader. That is how they are stored.
The second video I posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY) is a T-80, and clearly shows the process.

You will note from 0:09 to 0:19 it shows a blank round being loaded and fired. As the breach recoils the cartridge stub is ejected right into the spent stub collector, when the next round is loaded the stub is placed in its cassette and kept. This is why it does not need to be ejected.

On the T-72/90 the propellent and round are stored in a single cassette piece with one over the other, two stories if you will. The cassette moves into place vertically, a rammer pushes the round in, then the cassette moves again vertically, and the propellent is pushed in. When the stub is ejected a tray catches it and throws it out the back of the turret when the next round is loaded.