Main Military Weapon of Your Country, Type-9 [Read OP pl0x]

[San-Silvacian]

So, would weight increase if I designed a HE firing RPG-18?

[Aqizithiuda]

So, would weight increase if I designed a HE firing RPG-18?

Most probably, unless you wanted pure blast performance, in which case you could possibly find a way to keep the weight similar.

[Puzikas]

I know I asked Puz and Aqi this on IRC last night, but I don't remember what the answer was, so figured I'd ask (again) here: Would it be better/easier to just shorten a 7.92x57mm Mauser M48 round to 36mm case length rather than trying to modernize the original 7.92x36mm EPK round?

I believe we said yes.
I'm going with yes.

[Boer Republics (Ancient)]

Were there any automatic or semi-automatic conversions of the Mosin Nagant, similar to the Charlton Automatic Rifle?

[Vareiln]

(Image)
Last version for the night. M57 CGB machine gun. Has a overly complex mechanism that results in controllable recoil, extreme performance, and a scary rate of fire.

So basically the best gun in the world, save for its reliability, which is a tad lower than similar (less ridiculously complex) machine guns. 10x57 Benomian, which is straight sided for all of teh blowbakz.

The stock is... Well, you know.
The sights seem a little too small.
And personally, I don't like the trigger guard, but I suppose that's negligible.
Overall, it looks good and has potential.

[Anemos Major]

(Image)

Here, have a horrible, horrible compressed version of the AR10 Production Variant because of NS dimensiontyranny.

The original is here.

Is of most glory!

Is of much thanks!

[Black Hand]

The basic plan for my low tech SPIW style weapon:

The HE component:

- smoothbore, 3" 12 gauge shotgun.
- custom, rimless shells with a brass base and polymer body.
- feeds from a 6 or 12 round double stacked mag.
- primary ammunition is a FRAG-12 style fragmentation grenade current estimate gives it a weight of 50-60 grams and a HE content of 5 grams.
- buckshot, SCMITR flechettes, flares, flashbangs, TASER rounds, etc are all available as well.
- DI, gas operated rotating bolt, AR style buffer tube.
- semi auto only.

The KE component:

- 5.7mm Johnson (40gr bullet @ 2900 ft/s)
- blowback? Roller delayed?
- P90 style 50 round horizontal mag
- semi and full auto.

There will be two models. One, the cheap monkey model, will probably weigh around 5.5 kg or so unloaded. The expensive model will use things like titanium alloys, carbon fiber overwraps, etc to try and keep the weight down to hopefully 4.2 kg unloaded.

WELL FUCK ME.
This is rather similar to mine which I might as well throw out here now.
PIW (personal infantry weapon)

-General features
Rear mounted HE/Modular component with magwell to acommadate all standard issue magazines
Underslung Carbine/Assualt weapon
Polymer body for Smooth Design for ergonmics
p90/PDR style foregrip
top mounted rail for optics.
Iron sights
Integral Mounted light/laser combination
Single trigger for both weapons operated using Hydraulics
Fire selector for the carbine and separate Weapon selector (HE/ Modular component original Fire selector is used instead to reduce clutter)

-HE
A Saiga-12 gen IV "Operkun" (courtesy of Puzikas)
that Feeds from standard issue 5 or 10 Rnd magazines.
Primary ammunition being HESH 4" shells With the capacity to feed most other 4" Shells Including #1 shot, AP slugs, low-recoil slugs and 00 buck.
the shotgun is mounted rear wards of the KE component
- modular
The weapon itself is designed To take any AK variant in exchange for the Saiga-12 Gen IV the most common being the PSL and its 9.3X64mm Variant ( still haven't named it) for designated marksmen and Sniper spotters, and is patterned to make all of the Controls available for use with the exception of the trigger. The RPK-9 (I can have this right? 9X39mm RPK) is also similarly Issued for automatic rifleman.

-KE
The assault rifle/ Carbine Weapon is a AN-94 based rifle chambered in 9X39mm Supersonic ammunition (while Subsonic is Available for more covert use and used in the standalone it is not issued for this weapon) and feeds from any standard magazine.

So am i missing anything?

[Triplebaconation]

Were there any automatic or semi-automatic conversions of the Mosin Nagant, similar to the Charlton Automatic Rifle?

Yes. There were a couple of Russian conversions before WW1.

A handful of US Mosins were fitted for Pedersen devices.

[Aqizithiuda]

The basic plan for my low tech SPIW style weapon:

The HE component:

- smoothbore, 3" 12 gauge shotgun.
- custom, rimless shells with a brass base and polymer body.
- feeds from a 6 or 12 round double stacked mag.
- primary ammunition is a FRAG-12 style fragmentation grenade current estimate gives it a weight of 50-60 grams and a HE content of 5 grams.
- buckshot, SCMITR flechettes, flares, flashbangs, TASER rounds, etc are all available as well.
- DI, gas operated rotating bolt, AR style buffer tube.
- semi auto only.

The KE component:

- 5.7mm Johnson (40gr bullet @ 2900 ft/s)
- blowback? Roller delayed?
- P90 style 50 round horizontal mag
- semi and full auto.

There will be two models. One, the cheap monkey model, will probably weigh around 5.5 kg or so unloaded. The expensive model will use things like titanium alloys, carbon fiber overwraps, etc to try and keep the weight down to hopefully 4.2 kg unloaded.

WELL FUCK ME.
This is rather similar to mine which I might as well throw out here now.
PIW (personal infantry weapon)

-General features
Rear mounted HE/Modular component with magwell to acommadate all standard issue magazines
Underslung Carbine/Assualt weapon
Polymer body for Smooth Design for ergonmics
p90/PDR style foregrip
top mounted rail for optics.
Iron sights
Integral Mounted light/laser combination
Single trigger for both weapons operated using Hydraulics
Fire selector for the carbine and separate Weapon selector (HE/ Modular component original Fire selector is used instead to reduce clutter)

-HE
A Saiga-12 gen IV "Operkun" (courtesy of Puzikas)
that Feeds from standard issue 5 or 10 Rnd magazines.
Primary ammunition being HESH 4" shells With the capacity to feed most other 4" Shells Including #1 shot, AP slugs, low-recoil slugs and 00 buck.
the shotgun is mounted rear wards of the KE component
- modular
The weapon itself is designed To take any AK variant in exchange for the Saiga-12 Gen IV the most common being the PSL and its 9.3X64mm Variant ( still haven't named it) for designated marksmen and Sniper spotters, and is patterned to make all of the Controls available for use with the exception of the trigger. The RPK-9 (I can have this right? 9X39mm RPK) is also similarly Issued for automatic rifleman.

-KE
The assault rifle/ Carbine Weapon is a AN-94 based rifle chambered in 9X39mm Supersonic ammunition (while Subsonic is Available for more covert use and used in the standalone it is not issued for this weapon) and feeds from any standard magazine.

So am i missing anything?

So, are you saying that the HE component can be mounted on any rifle?

[Black Hand]

WELL FUCK ME.
This is rather similar to mine which I might as well throw out here now.
PIW (personal infantry weapon)

-General features
Rear mounted HE/Modular component with magwell to acommadate all standard issue magazines
Underslung Carbine/Assualt weapon
Polymer body for Smooth Design for ergonmics
p90/PDR style foregrip
top mounted rail for optics.
Iron sights
Integral Mounted light/laser combination
Single trigger for both weapons operated using Hydraulics
Fire selector for the carbine and separate Weapon selector (HE/ Modular component original Fire selector is used instead to reduce clutter)

-HE
A Saiga-12 gen IV "Operkun" (courtesy of Puzikas)
that Feeds from standard issue 5 or 10 Rnd magazines.
Primary ammunition being HESH 4" shells With the capacity to feed most other 4" Shells Including #1 shot, AP slugs, low-recoil slugs and 00 buck.
the shotgun is mounted rear wards of the KE component
- modular
The weapon itself is designed To take any AK variant in exchange for the Saiga-12 Gen IV the most common being the PSL and its 9.3X64mm Variant ( still haven't named it) for designated marksmen and Sniper spotters, and is patterned to make all of the Controls available for use with the exception of the trigger. The RPK-9 (I can have this right? 9X39mm RPK) is also similarly Issued for automatic rifleman.

-KE
The assault rifle/ Carbine Weapon is a AN-94 based rifle chambered in 9X39mm Supersonic ammunition (while Subsonic is Available for more covert use and used in the standalone it is not issued for this weapon) and feeds from any standard magazine.

So am i missing anything?

So, are you saying that the HE component can be mounted on any rifle?

No the Idea is that you can replace the HE component With Any other AK Series rifle The idea being the RPK-9 (still hopeful) PSL or 9.3X64 PSl.
That way you can still have the Underslung carbine Even when you have A DMR, Sniper, IAR, or Shotgun/HE Weapon. just like the Xm29 was to give a Carbine to a grenadier had a decent weapon For direct/ volume fire.

[Nua Corda]

WELL FUCK ME.
This is rather similar to mine which I might as well throw out here now.
PIW (personal infantry weapon)

-General features
Rear mounted HE/Modular component with magwell to acommadate all standard issue magazines
Underslung Carbine/Assualt weapon
Polymer body for Smooth Design for ergonmics
p90/PDR style foregrip
top mounted rail for optics.
Iron sights
Integral Mounted light/laser combination
Single trigger for both weapons operated using Hydraulics
Fire selector for the carbine and separate Weapon selector (HE/ Modular component original Fire selector is used instead to reduce clutter)

-HE
A Saiga-12 gen IV "Operkun" (courtesy of Puzikas)
that Feeds from standard issue 5 or 10 Rnd magazines.
Primary ammunition being HESH 4" shells With the capacity to feed most other 4" Shells Including #1 shot, AP slugs, low-recoil slugs and 00 buck.
the shotgun is mounted rear wards of the KE component
- modular
The weapon itself is designed To take any AK variant in exchange for the Saiga-12 Gen IV the most common being the PSL and its 9.3X64mm Variant ( still haven't named it) for designated marksmen and Sniper spotters, and is patterned to make all of the Controls available for use with the exception of the trigger. The RPK-9 (I can have this right? 9X39mm RPK) is also similarly Issued for automatic rifleman.

-KE
The assault rifle/ Carbine Weapon is a AN-94 based rifle chambered in 9X39mm Supersonic ammunition (while Subsonic is Available for more covert use and used in the standalone it is not issued for this weapon) and feeds from any standard magazine.

So am i missing anything?

So, are you saying that the HE component can be mounted on any rifle?

The same could be said for mine. At least, the standalone version can be mounted on any rifle, along with the Optic. It's designed to allow people to bring old weapons up to spec. with a sort of "my first OICW kit"

[Puzikas]

Were there any automatic or semi-automatic conversions of the Mosin Nagant, similar to the Charlton Automatic Rifle?

Yes. Peterson device.
Few others.

[Boer Republics (Ancient)]

Were there any automatic or semi-automatic conversions of the Mosin Nagant, similar to the Charlton Automatic Rifle?

Yes. There were a couple of Russian conversions before WW1.

A handful of US Mosins were fitted for Pedersen devices.

Eh. Not quite what I was hoping for. I was hoping for something that still used the 7.62x53R. With the tiny cartridge of the Pendersen, I might as well just start issuing the SKS and make the transition to semi-automatic/automatic weapons and intermediate cartridges in earnest. (This is for 1953 on the NS Europe forums.)

I suppose, I could make something based on the Charlton Automatic Rifle though, for use as a squad automatic rifle. Save the SKSs for fancy elite units that can use them.

Nevermind. Forget the Mosin Nagant automatic conversion. I'll just use the Lahti-Saloranta M/26 instead. Derp.

[Aqizithiuda]

So, are you saying that the HE component can be mounted on any rifle?

No the Idea is that you can replace the HE component With Any other AK Series rifle The idea being the RPK-9 (still hopeful) PSL or 9.3X64 PSl.
That way you can still have the Underslung carbine Even when you have A DMR, Sniper, IAR, or Shotgun/HE Weapon. just like the Xm29 was to give a Carbine to a grenadier had a decent weapon For direct/ volume fire.

The OICW was, IIRC, meant to be issued to everyone, originally.

Honestly, looking at your concept, it seems like it will be too heavy, bulky and complex for general issue.

[Triplebaconation]

The Tokarev conversion was full-power and not as awkward looking as most similar efforts, but there's not much information on it.

[Black Hand]

No the Idea is that you can replace the HE component With Any other AK Series rifle The idea being the RPK-9 (still hopeful) PSL or 9.3X64 PSl.
That way you can still have the Underslung carbine Even when you have A DMR, Sniper, IAR, or Shotgun/HE Weapon. just like the Xm29 was to give a Carbine to a grenadier had a decent weapon For direct/ volume fire.

The OICW was, IIRC, meant to be issued to everyone, originally.

Honestly, looking at your concept, it seems like it will be too heavy, bulky and complex for general issue.

Yeah it seems Pretty heavy over all That is my main issue. And well It can't be all that bad and The idea is to give it primarily to specialists Like Automatic riflemen DM, Sniper spotters (who in the US Army are Usually issued the M16 w/m203 and a SSR/DMR ) And grenadiers for greater overall squad firepower and effectiveness.

[Aqizithiuda]

The OICW was, IIRC, meant to be issued to everyone, originally.

Honestly, looking at your concept, it seems like it will be too heavy, bulky and complex for general issue.

Yeah it seems Pretty heavy over all That is my main issue. And well It can't be all that bad and The idea is to give it primarily to specialists Like Automatic riflemen DM, Sniper spotters (who in the US Army are Usually issued the M16 w/m203 and a SSR/DMR ) And grenadiers for greater overall squad firepower and effectiveness.

Automatic riflemen will more likely than not dislike having the weight of an extra rifle and mags in addition to the LMG/IAR and all the ammunition they need to carry for it, and the same will go for the DM. They should really be issued with a PDW at most.

[Black Hand]

Yeah it seems Pretty heavy over all That is my main issue. And well It can't be all that bad and The idea is to give it primarily to specialists Like Automatic riflemen DM, Sniper spotters (who in the US Army are Usually issued the M16 w/m203 and a SSR/DMR ) And grenadiers for greater overall squad firepower and effectiveness.

Automatic riflemen will more likely than not dislike having the weight of an extra rifle and mags in addition to the LMG/IAR and all the ammunition they need to carry for it, and the same will go for the DM. They should really be issued with a PDW at most.

Yeah.... about that my PDW is a shortened AN-94 in 9X39mm.... Might make a bullpup one A la PDR body. SO a PDW wouldn't be any better. Just longer to switch to. and probably the same overall weight.

[Fischermann]

It'll be used as a DMR/Battle Rifle.

Why not use an HK417 then

ICly quite a bit of the Empire's weaponry were based off bought patents for unused prototypes (such as the MAS Type 62), and since usage is so wide they simply keep modernizing the weapon rather than actually replacing it.

[Aqizithiuda]

Automatic riflemen will more likely than not dislike having the weight of an extra rifle and mags in addition to the LMG/IAR and all the ammunition they need to carry for it, and the same will go for the DM. They should really be issued with a PDW at most.

Yeah.... about that my PDW is a shortened AN-94 in 9X39mm.... Might make a bullpup one A la PDR body. SO a PDW wouldn't be any better. Just longer to switch to. and probably the same overall weight.

In which case a pistol would be a good idea.

An AN-94 PDW sounds like a horrible idea to me, though.

[Fischermann]

Were there any automatic or semi-automatic conversions of the Mosin Nagant, similar to the Charlton Automatic Rifle?

Yes. Peterson device.
Few others.

I recall a custom made semi auto Mosin from the dusty pages of /k/.

[Black Hand]

Yeah.... about that my PDW is a shortened AN-94 in 9X39mm.... Might make a bullpup one A la PDR body. SO a PDW wouldn't be any better. Just longer to switch to. and probably the same overall weight.

In which case a pistol would be a good idea.

An AN-94 PDW sounds like a horrible idea to me, though.

Expensive yes but no more than handing out M4's like candy Like the US does.Or the PDR and besides It should provide more than plenty Firepower And it's basically A AN-94 styled like a AKS-74 it uses a Side folding Metal Skeletal stock and a Shortened Barrel. (yes I know that it already has A folding stock)

[Puzikas]

I had a thought.

The Model 1895 Winchester (hear forth referred to as the lever nugget) Was exported (in NS) In significantly larger amounts to Russia on demand of the Russian military (from 1908). It was modified from its factory configeration to have a 10 round magazine, still able to charge with Mosin clips. The chamber was strengthened in order to allow it to fire the higher pressure 7.62x54r rounds, and eventually the rifle was converted to the .404 Slav round in large numbers, approximately 20%. The levernuggest eventually became a standard issue of the Russian empire, and saw service right though the second global war.

Yes/no?

[Aqizithiuda]

In which case a pistol would be a good idea.

An AN-94 PDW sounds like a horrible idea to me, though.

Expensive yes but no more than handing out M4's like candy Like the US does.Or the PDR and besides It should provide more than plenty Firepower And it's basically A AN-94 styled like a AKS-74 it uses a Side folding Metal Skeletal stock and a Shortened Barrel. (yes I know that it already has A folding stock)

Weight, complexity, ammunition weight and recoil will all count against it.

I had a thought.

The Model 1895 Winchester (hear forth referred to as the lever nugget) Was exported (in NS) In significantly larger amounts to Russia on demand of the Russian military (from 1908). It was modified from its factory configeration to have a 10 round magazine, still able to charge with Mosin clips. The chamber was strengthened in order to allow it to fire the higher pressure 7.62x54r rounds, and eventually the rifle was converted to the .404 Slav round in large numbers, approximately 20%. The levernuggest eventually became a standard issue of the Russian empire, and saw service right though the second global war.

Yes/no?

The idea I like, but my concern would be how well the troops will like the lever action when prone.

[Puzikas]

Expensive yes but no more than handing out M4's like candy Like the US does.Or the PDR and besides It should provide more than plenty Firepower And it's basically A AN-94 styled like a AKS-74 it uses a Side folding Metal Skeletal stock and a Shortened Barrel. (yes I know that it already has A folding stock)

Weight, complexity, ammunition weight and recoil will all count against it.

I had a thought.

The Model 1895 Winchester (hear forth referred to as the lever nugget) Was exported (in NS) In significantly larger amounts to Russia on demand of the Russian military (from 1908). It was modified from its factory configeration to have a 10 round magazine, still able to charge with Mosin clips. The chamber was strengthened in order to allow it to fire the higher pressure 7.62x54r rounds, and eventually the rifle was converted to the .404 Slav round in large numbers, approximately 20%. The levernuggest eventually became a standard issue of the Russian empire, and saw service right though the second global war.

Yes/no?

The idea I like, but my concern would be how well the troops will like the lever action when prone.

I always found that issue strange, I never had the issue shooting prone with lever action. And I tried to see where it came from, but honest to god I just never found any merit to it.

Plus, it would be used for mostly Calvary.