Main Military Weapon of Your Country, Type-9 [Read OP pl0x]

[Anemos Major]

I've been wondering. Who would win in an unarmed fight: an average street cop or an average foot soldier?

I'm leaning towards the cop as they have to fight unarmed a lot more, but I'm not certain.

I'd argue military - policemen on the beat are generally trained with two assumptions in mind; fight to disable, and the fact that they're in an easily reinforced environment (which encourages fairly conservative, defensive combat). A hand-to-hand-combat trained soldier will generally be aiming to dispatch the enemy quickly and lethally, and with that sort of training and mentality in mind the average policeman is probably going to have a fair bit of trouble engaging the soldier on equal terms.

E: Worth noting that this is a generalisation; remember, some police forces are geared towards military action (i.e. Gendarmerie Nationale during the Cold War) and some militaries are geared towards police action (i.e. the IDF), so you'll obviously see force-specific quirks acting in different directions if you actually start comparing real world examples.

[Nua Corda]

I've been wondering. Who would win in an unarmed fight: an average street cop or an average foot soldier?

I'm leaning towards the cop as they have to fight unarmed a lot more, but I'm not certain.

Depends on the training. Israeli soldiers are, iirc, trained in martial arts, and the Marines have a mixed martial art as well, though that might only be taught to special forces.

Lots of wonderful detail Corda, looks great thus far.

Muchas graciás

[Fischermann]

I've been wondering. Who would win in an unarmed fight: an average street cop or an average foot soldier?

I'm leaning towards the cop as they have to fight unarmed a lot more, but I'm not certain.

I'd argue military - policemen on the beat are generally trained with two assumptions in mind; fight to disable, and the fact that they're in an easily reinforced environment (which encourages fairly conservative, defensive combat). A hand-to-hand-combat trained soldier will generally be aiming to dispatch the enemy quickly and lethally, and with that sort of training and mentality in mind the average policeman is probably going to have a fair bit of trouble engaging the soldier on equal terms.

I believe that'd largely depend on the military force.

For example, here in Turkey, I believe the cop would hand your average foot soldier his ass on a silver platter, because the standard for your average foot soldier is low. But same goes for the cop's standard, so it'd boil to individual skill and tenacity.

[Anemos Major]

I believe that'd largely depend on the military force.

For example, here in Turkey, I believe the cop would hand your average foot soldier his ass on a silver platter, because the standard for your average foot soldier is low.

Then again, the standard for your average street cop is also low.

It would, but he asked a general question (it'd have been a tad difficult to answer it on the basis of a comparison of every country's military and law enforcement forces) and I gave a general answer.

[Fischermann]

I believe that'd largely depend on the military force.

For example, here in Turkey, I believe the cop would hand your average foot soldier his ass on a silver platter, because the standard for your average foot soldier is low.

Then again, the standard for your average street cop is also low.

It would, but he asked a general question (it'd have been a tad difficult to answer it on the basis of a comparison of every country's military and law enforcement forces) and I gave a general answer.

I could guess.

I just think that the question's far too generalized to get a proper answer.

[Anemos Major]

I just think that the question's far too generalized to get a proper answer.

We make do with what we have, I guess.

Though amusingly enough, most of France's domestic counter-special operations forces during the Cold War consisted of Gendarmerie irregulars led by GIGN operators - the rationale was that the GIGN was too small a force to be effective as a whole unit during a war, so they were to be split up and assigned to regional Gendarmerie as coordinators and training officers if the Russians invaded.

(from what I saw, the gendarmes were pretty defeatist about the whole arrangement)

[Spreewerke]

When it was invented, people were as likely to die from the infection caused by an open wound as the gunshot itself.

Yes but unless you being mugged in a nudist colony that doesn't matter. at which point i don't want to know where they hid it if it gets stopped by a empty milk carton than It won' kill you, and like I said would be stopped by a reasonably thick jacket.

.25ACP was designed as a centerfire alternative to .22LR in pocket handguns of the time. I believe the casing size is what it is simply to it can house a centerfire primer.

Mind You it was An empty milk carton At 20 Feet. The Mugging will probably Be less than 6 Feet at Most.

Yes now remember that when you shoot me with your sad pistol at 6 feet and I'm wearing a jacket (it's a mugging odds are it's at night so it's cold) And i have my G.I. Tanto (I love this Knife) you shoot me it goes through my jacket and buries itself lets say a centimeter in me. you are now defenseless and I still have a 7 inch blade..... your not gonna have a good time. From my experience with martial arts (with practice knives)even with training you will still get cut up pretty bad. You want a personal defense weapon get a derringer they have some that are Capable of taking both .410 and .45 ACP interchangeably so that would be a much better bet and then you get 2 shots. or go the Spree way and Get a PM With the conceal holster. Basically any single stack handgun makes a good thin Personal defense weapon.

First off, .410 is a piece of shit shotgun cartridge that you should never use for self-defense, ever.

Secondly, the Spree. ways is not a PM with a concealment holster. The Spree. way is a PM in an EFA-2k riding at 2:00-2:30 open with a 3" assisted opening knife on the front-right most belt loop of my pants. This is only at work/public, however. In my vehicle, the '103 typically rides console on pavement, lap on gravel. At home..? That should be obvious.



Also, good luck concealing a seven inch blade.

If you want something concealed, look into a G19, PM, PK380, PPK, LC9, LC380, Colt Defender, Springfield Champion Operator, Colt Mustang, etc., etc.

Derringers are worse than .25ACP.

I think this is what... Mod. 5?

(Image)
AK-93

Name: AK-76 (Автоматyка Ковача Взоре 1976 tr. Avtomatyka Kovača Vzore 1976; "Kovač's Automatic Model of 1976")
Origin : Islamic Social Republic of Premislyd
Designer: Uros Kovač, Republic State Armament Bureau
Manufacturer Republican Defense Works
Produced: 1975-Present
In service: 1976-Present
Cost: $400 (AK-93)
Weight: 3.7 kg (AK-76)

• 3.29 kg (AK-77)
• 3.3 kg (AK-93)
• 2.91 kg (AK-95)

Length: 942 mm (AK-76)

• 942 mm (AK-77, Stock Extended)
• 636 mm (AK-77, Stock Folded)
• 942 mm (AK-93, Stock Extended)
• 651 mm (AK-93, Stock Folded)
• 819 mm (AK-95, Stock Extended)
• 513 mm (AK-95, Stock Folded)

Barrel length: 418 mm (AK-76/77/93); 300 mm (AK-95)
Cartridge: 7.92x36mmShV
Action: Long-stroke piston, rotating bolt, BARS (AK-93/95 only)
Rate of fire: 600 rpm (AK-76/77); 800rpm (AK-93/95)
Effective range: 500 m
Feed system: 30, 45 round detachable box magazine, 60 round casket magazine
Sights: Rear sight notch on sliding tangent, front post. Equipped with optical plate for attaching various scopes

Baseline model that was introduced in 1976. The AK-76 features a wooden fixed stock and handguard with an integral foregrip.

Introduced in 1977 the AK-77 shares all of the features of the original AK-76, save for the fixed stock being replaced by an underfolding stock. Although it was originally intended for use by paratroopers, naval infantry, mechanized forces, and special forces, the AK-77 quickly became the main frontline variant across all branches. It has been replaced by the AK-93, but still sees usage with internal police forces, and most units within the Republican Army.

The AK-93 (Anarkaevich/Kovač Vzore 1993) is a modernization of the original AK-76. Introduced in 1993, the AK-93 replaced the old Kovač action with the newer Balanced Automatics Recoil System ("Anarkaevich-recoil system"). The wooden furniture has been replaced with black, high-impact polymer that decreases the weight significantly. Unlike most other AK modernizations, the AK-93 retains the 7.92x36mmShV round. The fixed stock has been replaced with a side-folding, skeletal, high-impact polymer stock. The stock features an ambidextrous button located at the the bottom of the folding mechanism. To fold, one just pushes this button and turn the stock to the left; to unfold, one simply lifts the stock up slightly and pulls it back out.

The AK-95 (Anarkaevich/Kovač Vzore 1995) is a carbine version of the AK-93. It shares the same features as the AK-93, with the exceptions of an underfolding stock seen on the AK-77, and a different handguard that doesn't have an integral foregrip. The AK-95 is intended for use by special forces and vehicle crews due to its length.

dat stock

Hahahaha no.
That is seriously the least of your concerns(Depending on your location and depth, at least).

Don't tell me sharks are the least of my concerns.

There are more sharks in the canals here than there are on the beach.

That's probably because sharks don't live on land.

.22lr is a decent round, I just yesterday I was shooting at 200m with my Marlin model 60. It will kill all the same. This is, obviously, not me making a case for the .22 as a service round, but you can shoot and kill with it.
Also, .22lr is far from useless. I take all manner of varmints and such with mine, and the many people who are killed every year by "just a .22" would argue otherwise.

Have rung steel at 200m continuously with 95%+ accuracy utilizing iron sights with a .22LR bolt-action: can confirm. .22LR will fuck you up, just not as fast as other cartridges might.

Go for it.

I can't really call it .22 ACP because all ACP cartridges are straight.
So I call it .22 NRP. Yep.
It theoretically should be better than the .22LR. It's 5.6x18 as opposed to the LR's 5.6x15, and it has a lighter bullet. That means it's faster, which means more energy and stuff.
Of course, it's still bloody useless, but so is every .22 pistol cartridge.

With this round...I will dominate the foreign market!

ACP stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol." It really has nothing to do with its shape. Since over ~95% of pistol cartridges are straight-walled, it's no wonder all the ACPs from the early 1900s are, too.

[Triplebaconation]

Guys, 1918 OICW?

Straight pull carbine with a permanently mounted grenade cup with an underbarrel SMG/pistol carbine. I actually have a prototype like this in the mid-30s for my MT alt.

I can only shake my had sadly at a lack of miniature Delattre mortars.

[Aqizithiuda]

Straight pull carbine with a permanently mounted grenade cup with an underbarrel SMG/pistol carbine. I actually have a prototype like this in the mid-30s for my MT alt.

I can only shake my had sadly at a lack of miniature Delattre mortars.

Okay, those are pretty cool. I'd never heard of them before now.

[Anemos Major]

Finally got around to colouring the prototype variant. The production variant will have rails and so on.

[Aqizithiuda]

Finally got around to colouring the prototype variant. The production variant will have rails and so on.

Damn, that looks good.

I take it that you're using a conventional action and a case with a brass base?

[UNSC REACH II]

[Anemos Major]

Finally got around to colouring the prototype variant. The production variant will have rails and so on.

Damn, that looks good.

I take it that you're using a conventional action and a case with a brass base?

Conventional in what sense? It's CTA, not caseless - still considering the more specific aspects of the design, but I think I *might* end up opting for push-through. Otherwise the action is very much based off the AR9R1/AR5R2.

E: And thank you very much I'm really, really rusty, having been away from this all for a good year and then some, so it'll be a bit shabby here and there. I'll try to patch it up.

[Aqizithiuda]

Damn, that looks good.

I take it that you're using a conventional action and a case with a brass base?

Conventional in what sense? It's CTA, not caseless - still considering the more specific aspects of the design, but I think I *might* end up opting for push-through. Otherwise the action is very much based off the AR9R1/AR5R2.

Conventional action, as in not push through. I think you probably answered this question back when you posted the plain line art, but I couldn't remember exactly what you'd said.

[Anemos Major]

Conventional action, as in not push through. I think you probably answered this question back when you posted the plain line art, but I couldn't remember exactly what you'd said.

I'm still debating this. Push-through could well be an option, but it's entirely dependent on how I choose to design the ammunition. The design specifics are yet to be finalised, so I'll have to work it out.

[Aqizithiuda]

Conventional action, as in not push through. I think you probably answered this question back when you posted the plain line art, but I couldn't remember exactly what you'd said.

I'm still debating this. Push-through could well be an option, but it's entirely dependent on how I choose to design the ammunition. The design specifics are yet to be finalised, so I'll have to work it out.

Fair enough.

[Ulfr-Reich]

Guys, 1918 OICW?

Spring-powered grenade thrower on top of magazine fed machinegun (a la Lewis).

Actually, gents, I was thinking of angle-mounting my rather hefty 50mm grenade launcher above the rifle frame (pistol grip equipped version of the M1918 Tjeneste-Gevaer). The mechanism will pop open via a modification of the "LFG" or "Light Field Gun" breach mechanism made and given to allies within Ulfheim ( the region).Just swivel the gren launcher's chamber open, yank out spent shell, load a 50mm Wyrm cartridge, blast apart an enemy hard point (if the 13mm aimed fire didn't already do so).

[Ulfr-Reich]

Either having the 50mm, or, making a 6 bore HE launcher that's just a top mounted M1905 Thunderbusse with a side mounted lever for opening the breach mounted atop a magazine fed variant of the M1918 Tjeneste-Gevar.

[United Republics of Aralon]

(My first time on a thread like this, and I suppose I'll share a design of a pistol you'll likely gut me over, go ahead, prepare the gallows)

([url=http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a514/TheWellDweller/WP-32A1Standard.jpg]Image)[/url]

The WP-32 is the most common handgun in Mallaska, designed for Mallaskan military and police, being standard issue to Mallaskans in these fields, and Mallaska utilizing conscription combined with Swiss-styled laws involving the keeping service arms, they are about as common as bread. Produced by Monsi Firearms out of Chessex, Mallaska, these firearms are produced in a myriad of variations. The A1 variation denotes the 9x19mm variation, B1 denoting a heavier .45 ACP, the C1 signifying the .22LR variation, and a myriad of others produced. These firearms, when not in military use, have become a very popular firearm among sport shooters for its ability of quick sustained fire and many aftermarket upgrades and easy takedown. They cost about $600 NSD per gun, but varies greatly between model, cheapest being the lighter C1 at about $300 NSD.

Stats (A1)

Name: Weapon, Pistol- Model 32
Caliber: 9x19mm Parabellum
Weight: 1,220 grams (2 lbs 11 Oz.)
Capacity: 10 rounds (12, 15, 20, and 30 round extended magazines are available)
Effective Range: 140 feet
Muzzel velocity: 1,270 Feet per Second

Nice gun.Now time for you to dive deep and describe the working mechanism. Something tells me it'll go okay.

[Aqizithiuda]

Either having the 50mm, or, making a 6 bore HE launcher that's just a top mounted M1905 Thunderbusse with a side mounted lever for opening the breach mounted atop a magazine fed variant of the M1918 Tjeneste-Gevar.

Sounds badass.

[DuThaal Craftworld]

Either having the 50mm, or, making a 6 bore HE launcher that's just a top mounted M1905 Thunderbusse with a side mounted lever for opening the breach mounted atop a magazine fed variant of the M1918 Tjeneste-Gevar.

SHIT! RUN! THE ARMOR DOES NOTHING!

[Ulfr-Reich]

Either having the 50mm, or, making a 6 bore HE launcher that's just a top mounted M1905 Thunderbusse with a side mounted lever for opening the breach mounted atop a magazine fed variant of the M1918 Tjeneste-Gevar.

SHIT! RUN! THE ARMOR DOES NOTHING!

I haven't even made an Ulfran AMR/AT-Rifle yet..........

[DuThaal Craftworld]

SHIT! RUN! THE ARMOR DOES NOTHING!

I haven't even made an Ulfran AMR/AT-Rifle yet..........

Fucking.
Hell.
Why do you have to force me to use Orbital Bombardment as my sole possible tactic against you? And why do none of your weapons seem wank-ish in the least?

[Ulfr-Reich]

I haven't even made an Ulfran AMR/AT-Rifle yet..........

Fucking.
Hell.
Why do you have to force me to use Orbital Bombardment as my sole possible tactic against you? And why do none of your weapons seem wank-ish in the least?

Because I prefer butch and destructive weapons tech from glorious bygone ages? Plus, I believe in the principles of fair play.

[Triplebaconation]

I've decided to make my OICW less bulky by putting the KE barrel inside the HE barrel.