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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #3

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:41 am
by Transnapastain
Previous thread

This thread is devoted to the presentation and discussion of military technology, tactics and concepts in a realistic setting, as well as the development, deployment and discussion of general military technology. Images are welcome, though we ask that excessively large images (to be determined at presentation) be spoiler'd.

Please keep in mind: If you post a design or concept here, you automatically accept that it may, nay will, be criticized. You do not have to agree to accept the criticism and act on it but you forfeited the right to whine about it when you posted. Such is the nature of a public forum. Further, players are encouraged to ask questions, and answer questions to the best of their ability. The adage "Better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt" is apt. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post. If you don't know, ask. Someone will tell you. Try to learn from what the more experienced players have to say, and use that knowledge to improve your understanding. As always, to the veterans, this is not an excuse to flame, troll or otherwise act in an insulting way towards posters. Finally, while some people believe there "is no such thing as a stupid question", posts which are judged by moderation to be made with the express intent to anger, upset or other wise piss off the regular posters of the thread will be treated as trolling.

Useful links to basic concepts will be added to this OP from time to time.

Finally, at page 400 (or there abouts) the OP will take nominations for the creator of the next thread. Up to 10 nominations will be accepted. Players will use the following format to nominate a player. You may not nominate yourself....because I said so

Kouralia wrote:
Code: Select all
[size=120]This is my Nomination.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.[/size]
[b]Nominee:[/b]


You must use this template to make a vote: if you don't, no one's going to bother trawling through pages when they can't search for your vote.


Beyond that, let the discussion begin.

Oh, and
Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen wrote:by posting in this thread you concede that nuclear warfare is 100% normal and rational, amirite?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:46 am
by Kouralia
first.

^_^

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:47 am
by Allmann
How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then. :)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:48 am
by Kouralia
Allmann wrote:How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.
I'd still recommend around the 1% mark.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?
I don't see any reason why or why not. I mean, it's not going to make a major difference what beret they wear, is it?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then.
lrn2dwi

:D

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:49 am
by Registug
I'M SORRY GUYS

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:49 am
by The Akasha Colony
Allmann wrote:How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then.


A few hundred thousand at best. Switzerland's national service is universal, but its military service is not, particularly given declining fitness rates in most modern countries. The biggest impact a Swiss system will have is on the reserves, which will be large, but not quite as large as people like to claim in the media and elsewhere. Switzerland is perhaps the most abused example for everything militant in the world.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:57 am
by Allmann
Kouralia wrote:
Allmann wrote:How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.
I'd still recommend around the 1% mark.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?
I don't see any reason why or why not. I mean, it's not going to make a major difference what beret they wear, is it?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then.
lrn2dwi

:D


Wut iz lrn2dwi. I iz K├Ânfused.
And pft berets we do not use berets.

The Akasha Colony wrote:
Allmann wrote:How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then.


A few hundred thousand at best. Switzerland's national service is universal, but its military service is not, particularly given declining fitness rates in most modern countries. The biggest impact a Swiss system will have is on the reserves, which will be large, but not quite as large as people like to claim in the media and elsewhere. Switzerland is perhaps the most abused example for everything militant in the world.


Affirmative, I was not thinking of having a 4 million strong military or anything.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:04 am
by Immoren
Allmann wrote:How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then. :)


Peacetime military or war mobilized? :P


Notamod: Tag posts are spam. :P

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:09 am
by Moriskov
Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:20 am
by The Akasha Colony
Moriskov wrote:Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!


You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:22 am
by Allmann
Immoren wrote:
Allmann wrote:How big should my military be if my population is 11 million and I am doing Switzerland-like/Finnish conscription?
Mind that I am landlocked and thus have no need for a Navy.

Also I was thinking, should perhaps paratroopers go under the air force instead of the army?

EDIT: Kouralia you thief.. 2nd then. :)


Peacetime military or war mobilized? :P


Notamod: Tag posts are spam. :P


Hm.. peacetime and perhaps we could talk about war mobilized afterwards? From what I saw of the Finnish Defence Forces on wikipedia they got about 30 thousand active personnel with a 100 000ish ready.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:24 am
by Immoren
Allmann wrote:
Immoren wrote:
Peacetime military or war mobilized? :P


Notamod: Tag posts are spam. :P


Hm.. peacetime and perhaps we could talk about war mobilized afterwards? From what I saw of the Finnish Defence Forces on wikipedia they got about 30 thousand active personnel with a 100 000ish ready.


~30000 doing peacetime service
~200000-300000 after wartime mobilization has been done. At least on paper. :P

Edit:I must note number of peacetime servicemen is legacy of Paris Peace Treaty.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:58 am
by Moriskov
The Akasha Colony wrote:
Moriskov wrote:Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!


You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image

WHAT!? SWEET MOTHER OF ALL THINGS TASTY AND TOASTY, THAT THING IS MASSIVE! (That's what she said herherher)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am
by Republica Newland
The Akasha Colony wrote:
Moriskov wrote:Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!


You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image


That's a fucking landship.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:30 am
by Samozaryadnyastan
The People's Standing Army forces (the PSA is the official name of the land army, yet is also used as a catch-all for the entire Samozniy military) are large, well-trained and highly-organised.
High motivation and compliance with conscription programmes (until the last few IC years) stems from a form of a continued cold-war environment within the region.

I've still not worked out what to properly cap my population at (a continuation of a fragmented post-Soviet Russia, following a civil war shortly after the collapse of the USSR's grip on Europe, prior to the formation of the CIS) so actual military numbers are not thought up as present.
Though the PSA forces land army closely follows the organisational layout of the Soviet Union's 1984 ORBAT, with a lot of unit names carried over as legacy (reversing the 1990 re-organisational shift), the Navy and Air Force have been completely overhauled. In ways I have no idea.

As such, the two major land units of the PSA remain as being the Motor Rifle Division, and the Tank Division.
These units are laid out as follows:
    Motor Rifle Division
    ~13500 men including 7500 infantry, ~1000 IFV/APC, ~220 MBT, 18 122mm Towed Howitzers, 12 152mm Towed Howitzers, 90 152mm SPG, 18 122mm MLRS, ~60 SPAA, plus support vehicles, helicopters
  • Motor Rifle Regiment (BTR)
    ~2500 men, ~320 BTR-110M2 (David LTD), 40 T-108M (HAV-2 King David), 18 D-30M1 122mm autoloaded howitzer
  • Motor Rifle Regiment (BTR)
    ~2500 men, ~320 BTR-110M2 (David LTD), 40 T-108M (HAV-2 King David), 12 D-20 Khitin 152mm howitzer,
  • Motor Rifle Regiment (BMP)
    ~2500 men, ~320 BMP-4M (David LTD, tracked), 40 T-108M2 (HAV-2 King David), 18 2S38 (BMP-4/M with 152mm gun)
  • Tank Regiment
    ~1200 men, 100 T-108MS (HAV-2 King David ILS), 18 2S38 (BMP-4/M with 152mm gun)
  • Artillery Regiment
    ~1300 men, 42 2S33 Msta-SM, 12 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV, 18 BM-21 122mm MLRS
  • Anti-Aircraft Regiment
    ~500 men, 18 HAV-3, ~40 as-yet-unknown SAM vehicles (analogous to SA-6), unknown MANPADS
  • Helicopter Squadron
    ~200 men, unknown numbers of HIND-X-3, Mi-8 variant, unknown light helicopters
  • Various Battalion and smaller other units, accommodating ~2500 personnel

    Tank Division
    ~11500 men, ~500 IFV/APC, ~340 MBT, 108 152mm SPG, 18 122mm MLRS, ~60 SPAA, plus support vehicles, helicopters
  • Tank Regiment
    ~1650 men, 100 T-108MS (HAV-2 King David ILS), ~60 BMP-4M (David LTD, tracked), 18 2S38 (BMP-4/M with 152mm gun)
  • Tank Regiment
    ~1650 men, 100 T-108MS (HAV-2 King David ILS), ~60 BMP-4M (David LTD, tracked), 18 2S38 (BMP-4/M with 152mm gun)
  • Tank Regiment
    ~1650 men, 100 T-108MS (HAV-2 King David ILS), ~60 BMP-4M (David LTD, tracked), 18 2S38 (BMP-4/M with 152mm gun)
  • Motor Rifle Regiment (BMP)
    ~2500 men, ~320 BMP-4M (David LTD, tracked), 40 T-108M2 (HAV-2 King David), 18 2S38 (BMP-4/M with 152mm gun)
  • Artillery Regiment
    ~1000 men, 30 2S33 Msta-SM, 6 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV, 18 BM-21 122mm MLRS
  • Anti-Aircraft Regiment
    ~500 men, 18 HAV-3, ~40 as-yet-unknown SAM vehicles (analogous to SA-6), unknown MANPADS
  • Helicopter Squadron
    ~200 men, unknown numbers of HIND-X-3, Mi-8 variant, unknown light helicopters
  • Various Battalion and smaller other units, accommodating ~2500 personnel


As you can plainly tell, these still need plenty of work.
Taken from:
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=2181340

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:41 am
by Elan Valleys
Would using the Swedish Centurion upgrades from the 80's for reserve armoured forces be feasible?
Image

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:41 am
by Immoren
Elan Valleys wrote:Would using the Swedish Centurion upgrades from the 80's for reserve armoured forces be feasible?
(]Image[/url])


Yes.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:51 am
by Samozaryadnyastan
Elan Valleys wrote:Would using the Swedish Centurion upgrades from the 80's for reserve armoured forces be feasible?
([url=NEIN]Image[/url])

Chrome is giving me "web page not available" and malwarebytes is giving me "harmful connection blocked".

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:56 am
by Elan Valleys
Changed.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:02 am
by Samozaryadnyastan
Elan Valleys wrote:Would using the Swedish Centurion upgrades from the 80's for reserve armoured forces be feasible?
(Image)

You'd get no style points, but certainly cool points from Centurion + Sverige :3

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:24 am
by Jagalonia
The Akasha Colony wrote:
Moriskov wrote:Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!


You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image

Please tell me that's on rails.....

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:40 am
by Yes Im Biop

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:44 am
by Transnapastain


No, they aren't. You're lucky I didn't see that previously or I'd have locked it then. No warning since you had already posted it (even though you shouldn't have) Do not repost

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:44 am
by Yes Im Biop
Transnapastain wrote:


No, they aren't. You're lucky I didn't see that previously or I'd have locked it then.


...I hate you Tras :shock:


Can i file for Corruption? I remember Paying Trans for letting me get the 3rd Thread XD. Aw well. I'll win one of these times.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:47 am
by Transnapastain
Yes Im Biop wrote:
Transnapastain wrote:
No, they aren't. You're lucky I didn't see that previously or I'd have locked it then.


...I hate you Tras :shock:


Take a number. :-P

At the end of this one, they'll be voting like there was in the weapons thread. Get someone to nominate you and the OP (and all the meaninglessness there of) could be yours.