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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #3

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Who will OP the next realism consolation thread?

The Akasha Colony
35
35%
The Kievan People
7
7%
New Vihenia
4
4%
Purpelia
5
5%
Samozaryadnyastan (Para)
28
28%
Transnapastain
13
13%
Lamoni
9
9%
 
Total votes : 101

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Yes Im Biop
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Founded: Feb 29, 2012
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Postby Yes Im Biop » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:48 am

Transnapastain wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
...I hate you Tras :shock:


Take a number. :-P

At the end of this one, they'll be voting like there was in the weapons thread. Get someone to nominate you and the OP (and all the meaninglessness there of) could be yours.


*Grabs Money bag*
Time for Bribery by Donuts.
Scaile, Proud, Dangerous
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Founded: Jul 01, 2011
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...

Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.

Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
Yes, I Am infact Biop.


Rest in Peace Riley. Biopan Embassy Non Military Realism Thread
Seeya 1K Cat's Miss ya man. Well, That Esclated Quickly

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New Vihenia
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Founded: Apr 03, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Vihenia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:55 am

Ok..so new thread.. hmm anyway i'm just releasing something old and simple.. why old because this thing has around since hmm April 29th 2012.. And why simple because this thing does not really take complex range calculation problems thus applicable to general form of Radar.

Nonetheless i built this mainly to help building a sound statblock for my 1967 Interceptor fighter phased array radar..may not be perfect and obviously spartan look..but hey i believe someone here smarter than me can improve it somewhat :D

The download link.

Radar Range Calculator

So what this calculator can do ?
-Calculating range of radar based on typical parameter (power aperture product..etc) AND something which is not featured..as far as i know in many radar range calculator online.. The Search Area.. We know that radar in its operation have area of searching which also determine the detection range. Basically the wider the search area, the more time it took to search and in case of Radar..search time or usually called as "Time Frame" is quite limited, numbered in mere seconds (in my calculator it would be 5 seconds derived from an DTIC paper about phased array radar).

The search area are denoted in "Steradian" unit which can be calculated by converting both the horizontal and vertical search angle (in my calculator it's already done) to radians and multiply them.

-Determining Target Tracking Capacity of the Radar.
Beside detection range.. my simple calculator can also be used for determining how many targets my radar can track simultaneously. This feature however is well... pretty much experimental as the reference book (RF and Microwave Handbook) does not really specify on how to use this and some variables like "target track rate" have no clear "baseline numbers" and definitions thus i will have to experiment using say.. 50 track/seconds which i interpreted as the radar will update the track 50 times per seconds.

Another weird stuff in the tracking capacity equation is that it's some sort of scoring with left hand equation determine the "Design Budget" of the Radar and Right hand side which determine the "Requirement" thus if the Design budget did not equivalent or exceed the requirement the radar would not be able to track all of the targets. Readers may found the equation within the calculator.

What my calculator did not do :
-It is not taking account atmospheric attenuations, path propagation factors and ground clutter, i did attempt to make radar range calculator that do take account clutter however it's rather complicated and some equations have no closed loop solutions. Thus i had to leave it for a while to keep my sanity.

If interested however i reccommend a Radar book titled "Radar Design Principles 2nd Edition" By F.E Nathanson which have very good info and theoritical background related to clutter and RCS data of some important clutter like sea, land and even flock of bugs And some method to calculate RCS of complex objects like Sattelites or Ship (Soviet ships have different RCS Equation compared to NATO one).

Thus calculated range from the calculator should be treated as "Free Space Range" which assume the Radar search in a wide vacuum empty space. Might not be quite realistic but well.. it's quite helpful for me..and assuming high altitude intercepts where my interceptor will fly high altitude. The free space range calculated may be realistic as in high altitude air density is low thus lower atmospheric refraction and absorption and the multipath event will likely to be nonexistent.

this is the screenshot of the calculator :

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 5x4yxg.png

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/ ... 5x4yxv.png

Well first of all.. The box/coloumns marked in Green are EDITABLE, where you may edit the value inside it while the Yellow one MUST NOT BE EDITED as it contains the equations required for the calculations.

Well G2G.. crash course coming soon.. meanwhile feel free to have a play :D
We make planes,ships,missiles,helicopters, radars and mecha musume
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Kamchastkia
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Postby Kamchastkia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:59 am

My Nation rply only has a population of 1.5 million, assuming that there is conscription from 18-21, and taxes are mediocre. Would my nation be able to afford an attack helicopter? I have the only airforce base in my nation having 2 fighter-bombers from the 90s already, and most equipment is outdated, so gasoline would prolly be a huge part of the budget for the military D:.

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Transnapastain
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Transnapastain » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:06 am

Kamchastkia wrote:My Nation rply only has a population of 1.5 million, assuming that there is conscription from 18-21, and taxes are mediocre. Would my nation be able to afford an attack helicopter? I have the only airforce base in my nation having 2 fighter-bombers from the 90s already, and most equipment is outdated, so gasoline would prolly be a huge part of the budget for the military D:.


I'd think so. The AH-1 is only ~12 million, or you could go super cheap and get a light attack/observation and utility chopper like the OH-58 at somewhere around 4 million.

Do choppers, at least US ones, use the same jet fuel Air Force aircraft do?
Last edited by Transnapastain on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Yes Im Biop
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Founded: Feb 29, 2012
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Postby Yes Im Biop » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:10 am

Kamchastkia wrote:My Nation rply only has a population of 1.5 million, assuming that there is conscription from 18-21, and taxes are mediocre. Would my nation be able to afford an attack helicopter? I have the only airforce base in my nation having 2 fighter-bombers from the 90s already, and most equipment is outdated, so gasoline would prolly be a huge part of the budget for the military D:.


...
I'm sorry People But I must
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Trans you don't by any chance have Corda's Gavin song do you?
Last edited by Yes Im Biop on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scaile, Proud, Dangerous
Ambassador
Posts: 1653
Founded: Jul 01, 2011
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...

Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.

Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
Yes, I Am infact Biop.


Rest in Peace Riley. Biopan Embassy Non Military Realism Thread
Seeya 1K Cat's Miss ya man. Well, That Esclated Quickly

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North Mesquite
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Posts: 191
Founded: Jan 22, 2013
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Postby North Mesquite » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:29 am

The Akasha Colony wrote:
Moriskov wrote:Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!


You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image

Here's something you can add on it - Phalanx CIWS

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Samozaryadnyastan
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Posts: 19987
Founded: Mar 08, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:33 am

North Mesquite wrote:
The Akasha Colony wrote:
You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image

Here's something you can add on it - Phalanx CIWS

Inferior to Quick Kill. or RIM-161.
Sapphire's WA Regional Delegate.
Call me Para.
In IC, I am to be referred to as The People's Republic of Samozniy Russia
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^ trufax
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I unfortunately don't RP.
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Central and Eastern Visayas
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
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Postby Central and Eastern Visayas » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:38 am

The Akasha Colony wrote:
Moriskov wrote:Oh boy, new thread. QUICKLY EVERYONE INTO THE MAUS!


You think too small. I've got a ride for this thread!
Image

This isn't a joke, right?
If believing in God means I am less than human in the eyes of some, fine; I will wear my yellow badge with pride.

TIMEZONE: GMT +8
1. In a gunless society, the strong prey on the weak with utter impunity.
2. Yes, I'm a Roman Catholic from the Philippines. And I know how much ass PH sucks at the moment.
3. Bastard with ADHD. Yep.
4. PDAF can go to hell!
Economic Left/Right: 6.62
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New Vihenia
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Founded: Apr 03, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Vihenia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:42 am

OK..next time i'll make a Land battleship 8)
We make planes,ships,missiles,helicopters, radars and mecha musume
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Purpelia
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:47 am

I find it ironic that for all the talk of the Landcruiser the closest thing to a land battleship ever built, that being the largest tank ever to be fielded in any kind of military function and not just for show was made by the French.
Last edited by Purpelia on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Lolzieristan
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
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Postby Lolzieristan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:10 am

Kamchastkia wrote:My Nation rply only has a population of 1.5 million, assuming that there is conscription from 18-21, and taxes are mediocre. Would my nation be able to afford an attack helicopter? I have the only airforce base in my nation having 2 fighter-bombers from the 90s already, and most equipment is outdated, so gasoline would prolly be a huge part of the budget for the military D:.



The Federal Republic of Lolzieristan could easily provide you with some budget-friendly military equipment; I'm considering opening up an official storefront for it, but in the meantime we could easily sell you our outdated Mi-24 mid-models, like the -24D and the -24A, for pennies on the dollar. Noticed a question up top about it, Mi-24 uses standard avionic jet fuel.

The way I RP, we shelve every weapon and vehicle until we can either sell it, use it as a target, or it just stops working. No scrapping here.

And Purpelia, it's weird you mention that; I'm actually reading a book about those God-awful things...called Hitler's Panzers, offhandedly mentions that French tank. When you put a full-size tank turret on the front, and then mount a howitzer on the back like a freaking scorpion tail, you're either the smartest person I know or a total dumbass with no understanding of engineering whatsoever...not sure on which way it would have turned out.
Last edited by Lolzieristan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sometimes I'm reading through military threads here, and I stop and think "What the hell is wrong with all of us?" But then I get on Facebook, and realize I'd rather be insane than an idiot.
04/17/13: Got my wish, it seems, in terms of major depressive disorder. I'm sorry to everyone for any inactivity, it's...well, hard.

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Kamchastkia
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Founded: Jan 16, 2013
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Postby Kamchastkia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:25 am

Lolzieristan wrote:
Kamchastkia wrote:My Nation rply only has a population of 1.5 million, assuming that there is conscription from 18-21, and taxes are mediocre. Would my nation be able to afford an attack helicopter? I have the only airforce base in my nation having 2 fighter-bombers from the 90s already, and most equipment is outdated, so gasoline would prolly be a huge part of the budget for the military D:.



The Federal Republic of Lolzieristan could easily provide you with some budget-friendly military equipment; I'm considering opening up an official storefront for it, but in the meantime we could easily sell you our outdated Mi-24 mid-models, like the -24D and the -24A, for pennies on the dollar. Noticed a question up top about it, Mi-24 uses standard avionic jet fuel.

The way I RP, we shelve every weapon and vehicle until we can either sell it, use it as a target, or it just stops working. No scrapping here.

And Purpelia, it's weird you mention that; I'm actually reading a book about those God-awful things...called Hitler's Panzers, offhandedly mentions that French tank. When you put a full-size tank turret on the front, and then mount a howitzer on the back like a freaking scorpion tail, you're either the smartest person I know or a total dumbass with no understanding of engineering whatsoever...not sure on which way it would have turned out.

Thanks but I'm contemplating the Ka50 for purchase, get a somewhat moderate defense force, but I may have to get a 24.

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Immoren
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Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:28 am

I am again pondering if it would be worthless to group air assault and armoured brigades under same corps. :P
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
I ᴛʜɪɴᴋ I'ᴠᴇ ᴊᴜsᴛ ʜᴀᴅ ᴀ ɴᴇᴀʀ Aʀᴀʀᴀɢɪ ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴇɴᴄᴇ.
— Death. Probably.

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Kamchastkia
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Postby Kamchastkia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:36 am

Immoren wrote:I am again pondering if it would be worthless to group air assault and armoured brigades under same corps. :P

Uhm, depends on the type of aircraft? Primarily Air-Ground it wuld make sense, say the A10 but an Air SUpremacy group should be seperate. Assuming I understood what you were saying.

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Lolzieristan
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Postby Lolzieristan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:37 am

Kamchastkia wrote:
Lolzieristan wrote:

The Federal Republic of Lolzieristan could easily provide you with some budget-friendly military equipment; I'm considering opening up an official storefront for it, but in the meantime we could easily sell you our outdated Mi-24 mid-models, like the -24D and the -24A, for pennies on the dollar. Noticed a question up top about it, Mi-24 uses standard avionic jet fuel.

The way I RP, we shelve every weapon and vehicle until we can either sell it, use it as a target, or it just stops working. No scrapping here.

And Purpelia, it's weird you mention that; I'm actually reading a book about those God-awful things...called Hitler's Panzers, offhandedly mentions that French tank. When you put a full-size tank turret on the front, and then mount a howitzer on the back like a freaking scorpion tail, you're either the smartest person I know or a total dumbass with no understanding of engineering whatsoever...not sure on which way it would have turned out.

Thanks but I'm contemplating the Ka50 for purchase, get a somewhat moderate defense force, but I may have to get a 24.


Now's probably not the best place for negotiating prices, but I could let the Mi-24A go for as low as $5 million apiece. Mi-24D would go for around $7.5 million.

And if you need anything else Soviet-bloc and aging, talk to the Lolzi Army Quartermaster Corps. We're not saying it's good, we're saying it's cheap.


And Immoren, I think it would actually be pretty worthless...I could see the benefits in doing that, but I don't think they'd need to be under the same official corps command to reap them. If you want to send the air assault brigade ahead of the armor, you don't really have to put them under the same organic command; though you totally could, I think a separate air assault brigade would work pretty much as well.

But, then again, corps-level units are very diverse in terms of their composition. Stranger combinations have occurred.

And Kamchastkia, in this context "air assault" refers to (typically) heli-borne infantry and their supporting elements. Basically air cavalry.
Sometimes I'm reading through military threads here, and I stop and think "What the hell is wrong with all of us?" But then I get on Facebook, and realize I'd rather be insane than an idiot.
04/17/13: Got my wish, it seems, in terms of major depressive disorder. I'm sorry to everyone for any inactivity, it's...well, hard.

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Elan Valleys
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Postby Elan Valleys » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:38 am

Immoren wrote:I am again pondering if it would be worthless to group air assault and armoured brigades under same corps. :P

Combined-arms.

Go for it.

Especially at corps level.
Last edited by Elan Valleys on Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished for ever.

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Lolzieristan
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Postby Lolzieristan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:40 am

Elan Valleys wrote:
Immoren wrote:I am again pondering if it would be worthless to group air assault and armoured brigades under same corps. :P

Combined-arms.

Go for it.

Especially at corps level.



Important question, what type of corps are we talking here? Mechanized corps, armored corps, etc...

Because I think that would make a difference.
Sometimes I'm reading through military threads here, and I stop and think "What the hell is wrong with all of us?" But then I get on Facebook, and realize I'd rather be insane than an idiot.
04/17/13: Got my wish, it seems, in terms of major depressive disorder. I'm sorry to everyone for any inactivity, it's...well, hard.

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Immoren
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Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:45 am

Lolzieristan wrote:
Elan Valleys wrote:Combined-arms.

Go for it.

Especially at corps level.



Important question, what type of corps are we talking here? Mechanized corps, armored corps, etc...

Because I think that would make a difference.


Armoured corps. Which is built around four hilariously large Hexagonal armoured brigades. :P
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
I ᴛʜɪɴᴋ I'ᴠᴇ ᴊᴜsᴛ ʜᴀᴅ ᴀ ɴᴇᴀʀ Aʀᴀʀᴀɢɪ ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴇɴᴄᴇ.
— Death. Probably.

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Kamchastkia
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Founded: Jan 16, 2013
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Postby Kamchastkia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:47 am

Lolzieristan wrote:
Kamchastkia wrote: Thanks but I'm contemplating the Ka50 for purchase, get a somewhat moderate defense force, but I may have to get a 24.


Now's probably not the best place for negotiating prices, but I could let the Mi-24A go for as low as $5 million apiece. Mi-24D would go for around $7.5 million.

And if you need anything else Soviet-bloc and aging, talk to the Lolzi Army Quartermaster Corps. We're not saying it's good, we're saying it's cheap.


And Immoren, I think it would actually be pretty worthless...I could see the benefits in doing that, but I don't think they'd need to be under the same official corps command to reap them. If you want to send the air assault brigade ahead of the armor, you don't really have to put them under the same organic command; though you totally could, I think a separate air assault brigade would work pretty much as well.

But, then again, corps-level units are very diverse in terms of their composition. Stranger combinations have occurred.

And Kamchastkia, in this context "air assault" refers to (typically) heli-borne infantry and their supporting elements. Basically air cavalry.

Airborne infantry with armor Why?

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Discordant Schism
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Postby Discordant Schism » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:47 am

Could an iron warhead weighing 1lbs 1.8oz traveling at 24f/s penetrate two millimeters of bronze?

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Elan Valleys
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Postby Elan Valleys » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:47 am

Lolzieristan wrote:
Elan Valleys wrote:Combined-arms.

Go for it.

Especially at corps level.



Important question, what type of corps are we talking here? Mechanized corps, armoured corps, etc...

Because I think that would make a difference.

It allows a rapid exploitation of an opportunity, you don't have to wait for approval.

Even if you don't use them to air assault you have a unit of crack light infantry available.

If used sensibly the air assault can attack in company/battalion strength to secure bridges for the armour (but not as far as Arnhem!)
Last edited by Elan Valleys on Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists, and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished for ever.

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Lolzieristan
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
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Postby Lolzieristan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:50 am

Immoren wrote:
Lolzieristan wrote:

Important question, what type of corps are we talking here? Mechanized corps, armored corps, etc...

Because I think that would make a difference.


Armoured corps. Which is built around four hilariously large Hexagonal armoured brigades. :P



I've been looking over WarPac TO&Es, and from what I can tell airborne operations are subordinate directly to the Army Group commander, and often the Supreme High Command itself. Evidently the Russkies didn't like their airborne decentralized.

But, irritatingly enough, they don't seem to officially define air assault troops...I'm operating under the assumption that they treated their "special purpose" units as air assault, which means you wouldn't be too far off attaching one to two battalions per corps.
Sometimes I'm reading through military threads here, and I stop and think "What the hell is wrong with all of us?" But then I get on Facebook, and realize I'd rather be insane than an idiot.
04/17/13: Got my wish, it seems, in terms of major depressive disorder. I'm sorry to everyone for any inactivity, it's...well, hard.

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Immoren
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:52 am

Kamchastkia wrote:Airborne infantry with armor Why?

Because corps even its original form was intended as "plug" and used as army level reserve to desperately gap any large breakthrough, and I though having some faster reacting units to pin enemy advance for a moment till tanks can arrive would be good.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
I ᴛʜɪɴᴋ I'ᴠᴇ ᴊᴜsᴛ ʜᴀᴅ ᴀ ɴᴇᴀʀ Aʀᴀʀᴀɢɪ ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴇɴᴄᴇ.
— Death. Probably.

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Kamchastkia
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Postby Kamchastkia » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:57 am

Immoren wrote:
Kamchastkia wrote:Airborne infantry with armor Why?

Because corps even its original form was intended as "plug" and used as army level reserve to desperately gap any large breakthrough, and I though having some faster reacting units to pin enemy advance for a moment till tanks can arrive would be good.

Being anti-military IRL, Im clueless as to the purpose and intent of certan units except for the basics. So yea imma ogo hide in a hole xD.

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San-Silvacian
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Founded: Aug 11, 2011
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Postby San-Silvacian » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:01 am

Kamchastkia wrote:
Lolzieristan wrote:
Now's probably not the best place for negotiating prices, but I could let the Mi-24A go for as low as $5 million apiece. Mi-24D would go for around $7.5 million.

And if you need anything else Soviet-bloc and aging, talk to the Lolzi Army Quartermaster Corps. We're not saying it's good, we're saying it's cheap.


And Immoren, I think it would actually be pretty worthless...I could see the benefits in doing that, but I don't think they'd need to be under the same official corps command to reap them. If you want to send the air assault brigade ahead of the armor, you don't really have to put them under the same organic command; though you totally could, I think a separate air assault brigade would work pretty much as well.

But, then again, corps-level units are very diverse in terms of their composition. Stranger combinations have occurred.

And Kamchastkia, in this context "air assault" refers to (typically) heli-borne infantry and their supporting elements. Basically air cavalry.

Airborne infantry with armor Why?


Because they need it?

Image

BMD-4M - Russian Airborne IFV

Image

Spurt-SD Russian Airborne Self-Propelled Anti-Tank Gun
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