NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #3

[The Corparation]

Member how I said when I hit 10k words for my Orion I'd stop and put it on sale? While its 10,064 words long. Now taking orders

[Purpelia]

Member how I said when I hit 10k words for my Orion I'd stop and put it on sale? While its 10,064 words long. Now taking orders

Does it come in pink?

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Ah, right.
Well, that would make a fair bit of sense, I guess.

Penetrating a helmet at 650m is getting into BR territory though, but the ultra-slim bullet might pull off a .280 British and outperform larger rounds due to improved energy retention.

Yeah... it made sense to me.

If 650m is BR territory, what kind of range would you expect from a quasi DMR/RPK-alike?

[The Corparation]

Member how I said when I hit 10k words for my Orion I'd stop and put it on sale? While its 10,064 words long. Now taking orders

Does it come in pink?

Default color scheme is white but customers are encouraged to provide their own markings and nose art during the final construction design.

[Grand Britannia]

Member how I said when I hit 10k words for my Orion I'd stop and put it on sale? While its 10,064 words long. Now taking orders

If it can make toast it will be beyond godly.

[Elan Valleys]

Ah, right.
Well, that would make a fair bit of sense, I guess.

Penetrating a helmet at 650m is getting into BR territory though, but the ultra-slim bullet might pull off a .280 British and outperform larger rounds due to improved energy retention.

Yeah... it made sense to me.

If 650m is BR territory, what kind of range would you expect from a quasi DMR/RPK-alike?

650m is DMR territory.

[The Corparation]

Member how I said when I hit 10k words for my Orion I'd stop and put it on sale? While its 10,064 words long. Now taking orders

If it can make toast it will be beyond godly.

Toasters are provided standard in the primary galley. Due to the crumbly goodness of Toast it is advised that your nations toast consumption be confined to the habitat rings in order to prevent stray crumbs from interfering with ship systems.

[Spirit of Hope]

Member how I said when I hit 10k words for my Orion I'd stop and put it on sale? While its 10,064 words long. Now taking orders

I'm just going to order one for fun and profit...

[Purpelia]

Does it come in pink?

Default color scheme is white but customers are encouraged to provide their own markings and nose art during the final construction design.

I am asking because while I see absolutely no military value in such a thing it would make an amazing pimped out ride for a slightly power mad Arch Duke. But that would require some redecorating including but not limited to a disco ball color scheme made out of mirror for the outer hull and shag carpets all round.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Yeah... it made sense to me.

If 650m is BR territory, what kind of range would you expect from a quasi DMR/RPK-alike?

650m is DMR territory.

Yes well...
Can it be done!

[San-Silvacian]

Mauser C96 has irons good out to 1000m.

Does that mean C96 is best DMR?

[New Vihenia]

My problem with 3D is me. Namely I tend to get carried away. Like that 50K faces high poly model of the Panzer IV I once made by painstakingly measuring things out to scale from blueprints I got from a book.

Well i say that's not carried away.. one of my tank peaked 145K faces and i'm still editing the thing.

Oh BTW another point of improvements perhaps.. add the movable ramp to give sort of perspective and depth... here is an example of mine.. also loosely based on Su-27

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/ ... 5y4hh2.png

well hope it could help.

Is that a standard thing for all engines than? Or is it something I have to do when calculating stuff? Because I got the other stats listed up there from Wikipedia and various other sources. And I made mine up to match. So if they have already included it than mine should have it in by default. And if they didn't why didn't they? Also, my intake size and angle should match that of the Su-27. But one can't see it from this angle.

when calculating the Installed Thrust for the engine, which will be crucial when you want to say... compare your plane with others or calculating stuff like ranges.

One thing which often not mentioned is that thrust value from sources (wikipedia.. typical brochures..etc) are usually uninstalled Thrust which measured from the test bench where the engine is "open" to the airstream. When the engine is installed and integrated with the airframe..it is expected that thrust will be reduced by imperfection of airflow inside the intake. Furthermore engine nozzle may also have imperfect airflow which need to be accounted too.

That 0,78 constant as well as the reason above originated from "Famous Russian Aircrafts : Su-27" By Midland

[Lolzieristan]

650m is DMR territory.

Yes well...
Can it be done!

Marine Corps marksmen were reported to have made 800 meter shots with iron sights in the First World War. It's 80% shooter.

Of course, my Mosin-Nagant here has sights up to 2000m, that doesn't mean it's going to work (obviously).

Out of curiosity, we cranked it up all the way once at my friend's ranch, he's got an 800 meter target and I walked another 1200 meters. Had no idea where the target was, and the muzzle was at a 45-degree angle to the ground.

Long story short, we never found the bullet, even with a metal detector.

[Altaiire]

Minimum range is constrained by the amount of distance a top-attack missile needs to reach its maximum engagement height (they don't 'punt' before impact, they immediately ascend to their engagement altitude, cruise there, then dive to attack in the terminal phase) and then reorient itself to look down and identify its target. In the time it takes to do this, the missile will have traveled several hundred meters. Obviously, you can reduce this distance somewhat by getting a faster-acquiring system, but this is expensive, and there isn't that much room for improvement. You could also slow the missile down, but this also has obvious drawbacks since it increases flight time.

Fire and forget weapons would have limited use in a chaotic battle, particularly of the type being considered, since most ATGMs are not fire and forget. Hellfires are laser-guided with their own terminal guidance, and most others are SACLOS, and the ones that are IR guided like Javelin would not benefit from the tank having a radar system; the tank would still need a visual confirmation with some kind of infrared device to get a shot off.
Lock-on times with PMT equipment are something that can't really be estimated given that technology advances exponentially, and even a few years difference in the future will mean rapid changes (as they already have). Of course, PMT autoloaders will probably have improved reload times for the main gun as well. The usefulness of a CITV is going to depend on the missile design; they have to be specifically designed for off-boresight engagement, a capability that was only recently introduced in air-to-air missiles. I think a clarification of guidance is also needed, since a CITV is not going to do anything for radar-guided missiles that would benefit from Longbow; conversely, Longbow would not do anything for IR missiles that could use a CITV. And neither are going to do much for a laser-guided missile.

I've mainly been trying to name things analagous to what I want: I'll clarify. The entire system would be an integrated drum-cupola-style panoramic IR sensor, which is linked to an FCS capable of automatically targeting and engaging top-priority targets or can be used manually by the commander to attack selectively (the sensor doubles as the tank's CITV.) The missiles have IR guidance.

[The Corparation]

Default color scheme is white but customers are encouraged to provide their own markings and nose art during the final construction design.

I am asking because while I see absolutely no military value in such a thing it would make an amazing pimped out ride for a slightly power mad Arch Duke. But that would require some redecorating including but not limited to a disco ball color scheme made out of mirror for the outer hull and shag carpets all round.

An Orion would mainly see use as a deterrent. It has the endurance to stay well away from earth, say lunar orbit or one of the Lagrange points far beyond where an ordinary ASAT missile would be able to hit it, and should crisis come and you fall under attack, it would be able to return to earth orbit and strike at the enemy, using its defense systems to protect it before moving off back into deep space.

[Lolzieristan]

I am asking because while I see absolutely no military value in such a thing it would make an amazing pimped out ride for a slightly power mad Arch Duke. But that would require some redecorating including but not limited to a disco ball color scheme made out of mirror for the outer hull and shag carpets all round.

An Orion would mainly see use as a deterrent. It has the endurance to stay well away from earth, say lunar orbit or one of the Lagrange points far beyond where an ordinary ASAT missile would be able to hit it, and should crisis come and you fall under attack, it would be able to return to earth orbit and strike at the enemy, using its defense systems to protect it before moving off back into deep space.

You, my friend, are a madman. And for that I salute you.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Mauser C96 has irons good out to 1000m.

Does that mean C96 is best DMR?

Yes.
No contest.

Marine Corps marksmen were reported to have made 800 meter shots with iron sights in the First World War. It's 80% shooter.

Of course, my Mosin-Nagant here has sights up to 2000m, that doesn't mean it's going to work (obviously).

Out of curiosity, we cranked it up all the way once at my friend's ranch, he's got an 800 meter target and I walked another 1200 meters. Had no idea where the target was, and the muzzle was at a 45-degree angle to the ground.

Long story short, we never found the bullet, even with a metal detector.

Yes well, I'm sure a proper DMR (like the SVDKs we use) would have no problem killing a man at 800m.
However, the quasi-DMR/RPK-alike in question is firing a small 4.75x36mm round.

[New Vihenia]

An Orion would mainly see use as a deterrent. It has the endurance to stay well away from earth, say lunar orbit or one of the Lagrange points far beyond where an ordinary ASAT missile would be able to hit it, and should crisis come and you fall under attack, it would be able to return to earth orbit and strike at the enemy, using its defense systems to protect it before moving off back into deep space.

Well i wonder how space radiation protection is provided for that Orion.. will such aluminum and nextel layers able to say... reducing doses of radiation to safe amount human can tolerate ? or perhaps it will remain unmanned before any conflict emerge ?

Space radiation is my primary concern..especially when it comes to anything that stay manned for quite long time beyond the protection of Van Allen Belt.

[Lolzieristan]

An Orion would mainly see use as a deterrent. It has the endurance to stay well away from earth, say lunar orbit or one of the Lagrange points far beyond where an ordinary ASAT missile would be able to hit it, and should crisis come and you fall under attack, it would be able to return to earth orbit and strike at the enemy, using its defense systems to protect it before moving off back into deep space.

Well i wonder how space radiation protection is provided for that Orion.. will such aluminum and nextel layers able to say... reducing doses of radiation to safe amount human can tolerate ? or perhaps it will remain unmanned before any conflict emerge ?

Space radiation is my primary concern..especially when it comes to anything that stay manned for quite long time beyond the protection of Van Allen Belt.

That's a good point. Out of curiosity, how much mass does this thing have, compared to, say. the planet Mercury? Because I can't help but wonder if it has enough mass to actually hold onto an artificial atmosphere. Make a more efficient version of the Earth's ozone layer, or perhaps an artificial magnetosphere...

EDIT:

Doubtful. Fortunately I know some aspiring aerospace engineers, you'll get a few suggestions shortly.

[The Akasha Colony]

Uh...strength in numbers?

Actually, I was hoping to get an answer if a 2nd-world nation having 1000 modern warships in a span of 50 years was logical, but thanks anyways!

If it's second world, it probably won't be developing modern warships to begin with. If it were able to develop that many warships, it'd be a first world nation. And throwing money into the navy for a hundred years wouldn't really matter; only the last 25-30 years of warship construction would matter since older ships would be retired, and even if retained, they would not be modern after 30 years of service.

EDIT: Here, have some submarines again.

([url=https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AI-N1YHZLjg/UT_qvaB2IFI/AAAAAAAAHgs/G5w3P1ZQjWc/s900/Submarine_Comparison.fw.png]]Image)[/url]

Interesting. BTW how did you build statblock for your submarines ? Is there any references ? Like books or scientific papers ?

As for me i did excel spreadsheet based on "Ulrich Gabler : Submarine Design 1978 Edition" and "Concept of Submarine Design by Cambridge University Press 1998"

And here's some of my submarine's statblock

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 5y3kc6.png

Screenshot of the design spreadsheet
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 5y3kb6.png

It might not be well arranged but it is able to help me determine required pressure hull volume, displacements, required thickness of pressure hull, required power to "tow" the submarine.. and for Diesel Electric Case.. it is able to determine cruising range both for submerged (in battery propulsion) and surface cruising condition.

By and large I just used the fields from Wikipedia's military equipment infobox. Normally I store them in OneNote, since I have a whole host of designs and I prefer to keep all of my NS related stuff in one giant notebook for easy access, although I moved my FT fleet size calculations to an Excel worksheet to save me the trouble of recalculating everything periodically by hand.

I usually just assign values based on best-guesses and estimates to the block after doing the usual survey of different submarine designs, then sit down to draw up the item in Fireworks as close to those specifications as possible, although inevitably some changes, some aesthetic and others more practical, creep into the design. After that I go and re-measure the design's dimensions and alter the stat block if needed; for instance, the SSN turned out to be 0.3 meters shorter than the original specifications, and I shortened the SSBN by more than 20 meters when the missile ports turned out to be smaller than I had originally imagined. The limits of 2D design work prevent me from determining interior volume with any reasonable mathematical ease or precision, but for WWII warships at least I've usually come within +/-0.02 of what SpringSharp deems a well-designed warship on estimates alone after plugging the data in for fine-tuning.

Thanks for the references though, I may go and track them down. Usually if there are calculations to be had I admittedly tend to focus on the ones people care about when buying or when RPing, which is usually speed, endurance, and armament. Depending on the complexity involved I may do others though, I got bored once and calculated the energy output of my FT battleship's weapons and from there its fuel consumption rate and endurance, even though the current NS FT discussion community is very anti-science and anti-detail.

I've mainly been trying to name things analagous to what I want: I'll clarify. The entire system would be an integrated drum-cupola-style panoramic IR sensor, which is linked to an FCS capable of automatically targeting and engaging top-priority targets or can be used manually by the commander to attack selectively (the sensor doubles as the tank's CITV.) The missiles have IR guidance.

The problem there is that now your commander has to give up the use of his CITV at the time when he needs it the most. One of two things would happen: either the commander lets the FCS automatically control his CITV to scan for targets, or he does it himself, in which case he should just pick out the targets himself as well. If he lets the CITV scan, then the vehicle's awareness is severely handicapped, but if he's doing the scanning himself, that FCS is wasted money because he can and should pick the targets himself, particularly in a 'chaotic' engagement where there is a chance the computer might pick the wrong target and engage a friendly.

[Purpelia]

Well i say that's not carried away.. one of my tank peaked 145K faces and i'm still editing the thing.

Oh BTW another point of improvements perhaps.. add the movable ramp to give sort of perspective and depth... here is an example of mine.. also loosely based on Su-27

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/ ... 5y4hh2.png

well hope it could help.

That's the flap it has to close it so that debris does not get in when taking of right? I flat out forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

when calculating the Installed Thrust for the engine, which will be crucial when you want to say... compare your plane with others or calculating stuff like ranges.

Thanks for the description. It's quite interesting. Also, did I get this right. It's something I need to do when I calculate stuff and use those calculations to compare to stock values. But it's something I should not do when using a spreadsheet eyeball method. I use both a lot. Combined they help double check one another as well as bridge the gap where things get too complicated for me.


Also, on a more artistic note. Through random experimentation I have discovered a new way to do gradients that I have newer used before. Anyone care to take a guess how difficult and long this was to do?
IMAGE

Now, chances are all you flash artists out there have this figured out already since like forever. But I am still high from stumbling upon it.

[Lolzieristan]

Also, Corparation, I want it so so so bad. I'm tempted to finally go ahead and make a "PMT" class nation, because this account is strongly MT and I doubt I'll find people cool enough to let me have an Orion space battleship...

[Purpelia]

Also, Corparation, I want it so so so bad. I'm tempted to finally go ahead and make a "PMT" class nation, because this account is strongly MT and I doubt I'll find people cool enough to let me have an Orion space battleship...

Well technically speaking the Orion is 1960's PT. Don't know about his version thou.

[The Corparation]

An Orion would mainly see use as a deterrent. It has the endurance to stay well away from earth, say lunar orbit or one of the Lagrange points far beyond where an ordinary ASAT missile would be able to hit it, and should crisis come and you fall under attack, it would be able to return to earth orbit and strike at the enemy, using its defense systems to protect it before moving off back into deep space.

Well i wonder how space radiation protection is provided for that Orion.. will such aluminum and nextel layers able to say... reducing doses of radiation to safe amount human can tolerate ? or perhaps it will remain unmanned before any conflict emerge ?

Space radiation is my primary concern..especially when it comes to anything that stay manned for quite long time beyond the protection of Van Allen Belt.

I'm kind of ignoring radiation effects for this, although I may add something in on shielding the areas the crew spends most of their time in. Probably going to just use water, and have the water tanks located surrounding the crew habitat rings. During battle, boost or a solar flare though they hang out inside the command module which has lolamounts of radiation shielding. Another idea I considered was having the soft potion of the Whipple shield be a Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene instead of Kevlar, seeing as I've read that polyethylenes provide decent protection against cosmic rays.

[The Corparation]

Well i wonder how space radiation protection is provided for that Orion.. will such aluminum and nextel layers able to say... reducing doses of radiation to safe amount human can tolerate ? or perhaps it will remain unmanned before any conflict emerge ?

Space radiation is my primary concern..especially when it comes to anything that stay manned for quite long time beyond the protection of Van Allen Belt.

That's a good point. Out of curiosity, how much mass does this thing have, compared to, say. the planet Mercury? Because I can't help but wonder if it has enough mass to actually hold onto an artificial atmosphere. Make a more efficient version of the Earth's ozone layer, or perhaps an artificial magnetosphere...

EDIT:

Doubtful. Fortunately I know some aspiring aerospace engineers, you'll get a few suggestions shortly.

It massess about 11,000 Metric tons. Its not going to hold an atmosphere around the outside.