NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #3

[Primordial Luxa]

with all the anti missile defenses on modern tanks
how does a rocket get through all of them?

whats the ratio of ignored rockets to impacting rockets

[Lolzieristan]

with all the anti missile defenses on modern tanks
how does a rocket get through all of them?

whats the ratio of ignored rockets to impacting rockets

The main issue of anti-tank guided missiles is that even in the best cases, only about half of them even get to the tank in the first place. Older models like the Malyutka can have as low of an accuracy rating as two percent, if the operator isn't well-trained and the targets aren't cooperating (i.e. shooting at him). SACLOS models like the TOW or the Konkurs still rely on the operator not flinching.

However, if one does connect with the tank, the tables are turned.

ERA is a one-time deal, you lose its protection if it gets hit by pretty much anything bigger than a rifle round. And it doesn't always work.

Slat armor and things like that are losing their effectiveness against modern ATGM warheads, they're starting to develop new standoff methods that pre-empt contact with the slats that would otherwise detonate them prematurely.

Traditional rolled homogenous armor is usually never near enough to stop an upper-grade ATGM; sure, you might survive a LAW hit or something like that, but a Javelin, a GLATGM (there I go again, using that acronym), something like that...you're done.

Jamming typically isn't as effective as it's depicted as being in the media. Especially against wire-guided stuff like the TOW.

Anything I left out, guys?

[Basque Socialist States]

I think he's asking for an estimate as to the effectiveness of various APS like the Shtora or Arena.

If that's the case, the effectiveness varies depending on the system - whether it's a hard or soft kill system, the quality of the APS's sensors and other electronics, etc. - as well as the type of missile being fired. Top attack munitions are more difficult for hard kill systems to hit, and soft-kill APS will be more effective against certain missile guidance systems. So really, this varies quite widely from system to system.

Wiki claims that Arena provides a 150-200% increase in survivability (although that is versus RPG threats, so top attack munitions will probably be more effective). Older systems like Drozd are considerably lower (80% according to Wiki). I can't find good information on the effectiveness of soft-kill systems like Shtora, but you should remember that these are not very effective against unguided or wire-guided weapons.

You should also remember that APS will not be operating continuously, because of limited battery life. Crews operating with close infantry support also probably won't use hard-kill systems, because they pose a threat to any nearby infantry. So even if enemy tanks have APS, they won't be continuously operating.

[Registug]

[quote="Purpelia";p="13391178]And it's not like radio control is any better as the hardware needed for a proper encryption would render the vehicle too expensive to waste by blowing it up on a regular basis.[/quote]
RC vehicles need encryption nowadays?

[Lolzieristan]

Jammers, brah.

[The Corparation]

Jammers, brah.

A small one shot demolition vehicle which will likely only be in use for a very brief period of time will most likely not be the target of a dedicated EW effort. Worst comes to worst you can do what the USSR did with its teletanks, have it be able to be receive instructions on multiple frequencies.

[Registug]

Jammers, brah.

And what's a jammer supposed to do against a small, short range radio controlled vehicle?

If the UGV explosive is like CoD and basically a beefed up RC car strapped with C4, what's a jammer expected to do to that? Would a jammer even be effective? Seems like a waste of time to me.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Methinks you are referring to Phazotron's Arbalet. Which is currently in the nose of the Ka-52. I had not heard anything about its performance. Much appreciated!

I searched for info on the UKs Longbow radars and while I was able to find articles saying they were quite pleased with its mapping capabilities, I did not see anything about its utility for aiming Hellfires.

Anecdotally, crews were prohibited from using the RF Hellfire without special government authorisation to even move them to Afghanistan. As such, it was only really used for acquiring vehicular targets, watching the battlespace (being aware of friendly air assets in close proximity) and poor-weather flight.
Hellfires, being laser guided, were aimed with either the TADS or helmet display.

Methinks you are referring to Phazotron's Arbalet. Which is currently in the nose of the Ka-52. I had not heard anything about its performance. Much appreciated!

I searched for info on the UKs Longbow radars and while I was able to find articles saying they were quite pleased with its mapping capabilities, I did not see anything about its utility for aiming Hellfires.

The Arbalet is different entirely, though I know some on that.
The...whatever...was on the MIL MI-28 and a version was in trials for the MI-24/35

I'm sure Arbalet was the one mentioned in the video I linked...

with all the anti missile defenses on modern tanks
how does a rocket get through all of them?

whats the ratio of ignored rockets to impacting rockets

APS are of limited deployment, and even when they are carried, they typically provide limited coverage against limited threats and with limited ammunition.
When they do engage, they're often vulnerable to countermeasure as simple as a precursor charge.

Jammers, brah.

And what's a jammer supposed to do against a small, short range radio controlled vehicle?

If the UGV explosive is like CoD and basically a beefed up RC car strapped with C4, what's a jammer expected to do to that? Would a jammer even be effective? Seems like a waste of time to me.

The jammer would just jam the signal on that RF frequency, preventing you from controlling the UGV anymore. It would be unable to receive signals.
This may be achieved with a simple signal jammer, or using lasers to blind the equipment and Mk1 Eyeballs of the operator crew, or just the gear on the UGV itself.

[Arthurista]

with all the anti missile defenses on modern tanks
how does a rocket get through all of them?

whats the ratio of ignored rockets to impacting rockets

How about just salvo-firing your RPGs/ATGMs? The ADSs can't stop'em all. It's like sinking a ship with loads of ESSM/CIWS, isn't it?

[Immoren]

Ive been doing some research into Nanites and am planning on adding roving swarms of nanobots to my armies forces
any opinions?

at least part of things that apply to biological weapons apply to nanites

[Arthurista]

Regarding airbourne forces, is there any reason why I should use western style light infantry as opposed to Russian style mechanised paras?

[The Akasha Colony]

with all the anti missile defenses on modern tanks
how does a rocket get through all of them?

whats the ratio of ignored rockets to impacting rockets

How about just salvo-firing your RPGs/ATGMs? The ADSs can't stop'em all. It's like sinking a ship with loads of ESSM/CIWS, isn't it?

The danger then is wasting ammunition. That's not so much of an issue with ships since they're so expensive and rare that a few extra missiles isn't much of a waste, especially since the aerial launch vehicles (the most common platform) will have to expend all their ammunition anyway then return after reloading, so combat endurance isn't a factor. Plus, since ASMs don't usually destroy a ship but simply cause catastrophic damage in the hope of sinking it, additional hits will make it sink faster or make it harder for damage control crews to get the fires and potential flooding under control.

In the field though, when a vehicle or infantry squad has only a certain number of ATGMs and no real way to immediately supply, dropping a few extra on a target will severely deplete the unit's firepower for use against other targets. At best, it'd depend on what's being fired upon, and whether expending all of the ammunition is worth it in an attempt to guarantee a kill.

EDIT: Here, have some submarines again.

[East Vlaricstan]

What types of subs are those? I'm in need of a new SSBN.

[The Akasha Colony]

What types of subs are those? I'm in need of a new SSBN.

The topmost one is a standard SSN, with eight torpedo tubes and 24 VLS tubes. The second one is an SSBN, with the usual eight torpedo tubes and 24 SLBM tubes. The last three are expanded variants of the SSN with various mission modules. The last one is the heavy attack or minelayer version with additional VLS and torpedo tubes, the fourth one is the special operations one with special forces delivery mini-sub attached, and the middle one is supposed to launch UAVs for reconnaissance to support special operations. I have full stat blocks for all of them but am finishing up the fine tuning to make sure they're fully up to date and I didn't miss anything (surprise surprise, governments tend to be pretty hush-hush about their newest submarine technology).

[The Kievan People]

Methinks you are referring to Phazotron's Arbalet. Which is currently in the nose of the Ka-52. I had not heard anything about its performance. Much appreciated!

I searched for info on the UKs Longbow radars and while I was able to find articles saying they were quite pleased with its mapping capabilities, I did not see anything about its utility for aiming Hellfires.

The Arbalet is different entirely, though I know some on that.
The...whatever...was on the MIL MI-28 and a version was in trials for the MI-24/35

Ohhhhhhh

I know what you are talking about now, Russia produced two separate MMW radars for their helicopters. One for the Mi-28N and one for the Ka-52N, I was looking for the Mi-28Ns but I could not find it last night. Arbalet literally means crossbow though so I was not sure which one you meant.

http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/MAKS-2011/i-6CnQ8Wx/0/O/Part8_17.jpg

[The Kievan People]

Regarding airbourne forces, is there any reason why I should use western style light infantry as opposed to Russian style mechanised paras?

It requires many, many times the transport capacity to move a unit of BMDs. So much that you will basically need to dip into the national assets pool just to move a single battalion. The big, heavily loaded transport planes that drop them will also need serious air cover.

Airborne infantry (which Russia does have in significant numbers) can be moved in large numbers much easier making them far more flexible. You can land a few companies ahead of a Tank battalion to secure a bridgehead for example, or rush them to an undefended sector, or any number of other rapid-reaction roles.

[East Vlaricstan]

What types of subs are those? I'm in need of a new SSBN.

The topmost one is a standard SSN, with eight torpedo tubes and 24 VLS tubes. The second one is an SSBN, with the usual eight torpedo tubes and 24 SLBM tubes. The last three are expanded variants of the SSN with various mission modules. The last one is the heavy attack or minelayer version with additional VLS and torpedo tubes, the fourth one is the special operations one with special forces delivery mini-sub attached, and the middle one is supposed to launch UAVs for reconnaissance to support special operations. I have full stat blocks for all of them but am finishing up the fine tuning to make sure they're fully up to date and I didn't miss anything (surprise surprise, governments tend to be pretty hush-hush about their newest submarine technology).

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Regarding airbourne forces, is there any reason why I should use western style light infantry as opposed to Russian style mechanised paras?

It requires many, many times the transport capacity to move a unit of BMDs. So much that you will basically need to dip into the national assets pool just to move a single battalion. The big, heavily loaded transport planes that drop them will also need serious air cover.

Airborne infantry (which Russia does have in significant numbers) can be moved in large numbers much easier making them far more flexible. You can land a few companies ahead of a Tank battalion to secure a bridgehead for example, or rush them to an undefended sector, or any number of other rapid-reaction roles.

In Russian formations, I've seen both Airborne and Air Assault troops listed (particularly in the VDV, where modern units have replaced some 'Parachute Landing Regiments' with 'Air Assault Regiments') with no real explanation of what they are.
Are such 'Air Assault' specifically helicopter-transported, or do they share with the Candids? What vehicular use do they get?

Also, when trying to plan my VDV divisions, would it be sensible to directly integrate the air transport wings of Il-76 and helicopters? Does that not work?
I'd rather keep things intended to work together in the same general unit, rather than spread across branches and sub-divides.

[Arthurista]

It requires many, many times the transport capacity to move a unit of BMDs. So much that you will basically need to dip into the national assets pool just to move a single battalion. The big, heavily loaded transport planes that drop them will also need serious air cover.

Airborne infantry (which Russia does have in significant numbers) can be moved in large numbers much easier making them far more flexible. You can land a few companies ahead of a Tank battalion to secure a bridgehead for example, or rush them to an undefended sector, or any number of other rapid-reaction roles.

In Russian formations, I've seen both Airborne and Air Assault troops listed (particularly in the VDV, where modern units have replaced some 'Parachute Landing Regiments' with 'Air Assault Regiments') with no real explanation of what they are.
Are such 'Air Assault' specifically helicopter-transported, or do they share with the Candids? What vehicular use do they get?

Also, when trying to plan my VDV divisions, would it be sensible to directly integrate the air transport wings of Il-76 and helicopters? Does that not work?
I'd rather keep things intended to work together in the same general unit, rather than spread across branches and sub-divides.

I'm not sure about transport planes, but you can definitely directly integrate your helis directly into your air assault brigades/regiments. The Dutch Luchtmobiele Brigade does that with their transport and attack helis, for example.

[The Akasha Colony]

The topmost one is a standard SSN, with eight torpedo tubes and 24 VLS tubes. The second one is an SSBN, with the usual eight torpedo tubes and 24 SLBM tubes. The last three are expanded variants of the SSN with various mission modules. The last one is the heavy attack or minelayer version with additional VLS and torpedo tubes, the fourth one is the special operations one with special forces delivery mini-sub attached, and the middle one is supposed to launch UAVs for reconnaissance to support special operations. I have full stat blocks for all of them but am finishing up the fine tuning to make sure they're fully up to date and I didn't miss anything (surprise surprise, governments tend to be pretty hush-hush about their newest submarine technology).

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Ideally I'll have them up on the storefront soon, but the write-up that would normally accompany it isn't finished yet. The stats are finished though, so all that remains is for me to draw up the diesel-electric boat in the series, do the write up, and throw it up on the page. How many were you interested in?

[The Kievan People]

VDV terminology is a wee bit confusing by western standards.

Airborne Division = BMD equipped division.
Air Assault Brigade = BMD equipped brigade.
Airmobile Brigade/Battalion = Helicopter-borne light (still jump capable) infantry. These are what we would call Air Assault troops.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Mmm, that is confusing.
'Air Assault Divisions' contain 'Airborne Regiments', as do 'Airborne Divisions'.
Though the 'Air Assault (Mountain) Division' contains 'Air Assault Regiments'.

Why so many redundant titles?

[Purpelia]

For anyone that still cares, here is a preview of my new fighter. This time, it's just the engine.
Engine

The image is very loosely based on the engines of the Su-27 (seen here). But the case is generally of a different shape. Is there anything you can spot on it that is strange or just plain wrong? Also, I know the nozzles are shortish, but that's because the engine is not thrust vectoring or anything fancy like that. The TV variant gets a 1m extension to those.

Also, in general terms. How would you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. Where 1 is "omg it sucks, you are worse than beno" and 10 is just plain "OMG".

[The Kievan People]

It is best not to think too hard about post-soviet unit names.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Right, screw everything post 1984.
Got it.