Main Military Weapon of your Country: Pattern VIII (Read OP)

by **Puzikas** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:43 am

This thread is dedicated to discussion of the small arms of your country, their application, design, history, and deployment therein. Images are welcomes, and in many cases, encouraged. We do ask, however, excessively large images or posts containing several images place a spoiler on them. Longer posts should be spoilered to prevent a wall of text effect. Several veterans of the thread ask all weapons made in Pimp my Gun be spoiler`d as well; while not necessary it is encouraged. Discussion of all firearms is permitted, as well as their design. General military discussion is also permitted. We here are heavily grounded in realism, though if you are not that is fine: just be ready for criticism.

Please note: A nuclear device is NOT a suitable main military weapon. I am already typing this by the warm glow of my lungs due to all the radiation we have in NS, we don't need more of the stuff.

Please note, this thread is not for discussion of politics ABOUT guns, about gun control, or otherwise. Doing so will result in swift punishment by mods. This thread has been running now for eight editions, please respect this and do not troll, flame bate, or generally muck up the place with any tomfoolery. The same goes for Past Tec, Future Tech, Fan Tect, or Modern Tech debates. if these occur, I will shoot this dog.

You may also be subjugated to ban, or mess Webley.

Please remember: If you post a design here, you open it to criticism, and you will be criticized. If you take the criticism or ignore it is up to you, but keep in mind many frequent posters of this thread are well versed owners of firearms, gun salesmen, former/active military and Law Enforcement, and military buffs. This is the nature of a public board; all can see it.

Learn from your mistakes, and from the veteran players. They can help you, but are in now way obligated.
As always, for the veterans, this is not an excuse to troll, flame, or be a douchbag.

Thinking about using the AK family?
Here is a quote from our resident AK family master, Spreewerke:

Spreewerke wrote:
That said, there are a couple of things that aren't acceptable answers, unless you fit very specific criteria. The most obvious of these is that the 'AK-47' is not an acceptable answer. If you have a problem with that, feel free to talk to me about it. Why isn't that an acceptable answer, though? Spoiler time!

No, seriously, read this:
The AK-47 was designed in 1946 and formally adopted by the Soviet military in 1949. There were four models used between 1947 and 1959: The AK-47 was the test and trials designation for the rifle: the earlier prototypes, made in 1946, were referred to as the AK-1 and AK-2. After the adoption of the rifle, it was designated simply as the "AK". However, due to three variants of the AK being made, it is more proper to refer to these variants as the "AK Type-#" rather than just "AK" as the three variants differed quite significantly from one another. Due to that, the term "AK" has more or less become a catch-all for just about all AK variants, and does not necessarily refer to one specific model. The Type-I, adopted in late 1948, featured an early, stamped receiver, but it was quickly (and I mean quickly) replaced by the Type-II AK in 1949. This featured a milled receiver, a stock boot, and some other small, yet somewhat significant changes. The Type-III is the most common "AK-47," and it is basically just a milled predecessor of the rifle you should be using. What rifle is that?

Enter the AKM.

The AKM is the modernized version of the Type-III assault rifle. It utilizes a stamped receiver, reinforced receiver cover, slanted muzzle brake, vented gas block, and a rear sight leaf showing distances of 100m to 1,000m among other things. In reality, it is only acceptably accurate out to 300m on a good day. The AKM is the most widespread AK variant in the world. Almost every foreign-made AK (Yugoslavian, Hungarian, Polish, etc) variant in the world is based off of the AKM. Why? It's more reliable and just as accurate as the original AKs, not to mention much cheaper to produce. It is the Kalashnikov rifle. They come in a variety of, well, variants, which include models with forward, wooden grips, underfolding MP40-style stocks, side-folding wire stocks, and, of course, fixed, wooden stocks. They fire the 7.62x39mm cartridge. Folding-stocked AKMs are designated as AKMS.

The AKMN is the most useful of the AKMs, however, as it utilizes the famous Russian optics rail on the receiver. This allows the user to attach a variety of slide-on optics that do not lose zero and, sometimes, co-witness or, most usually, sit above the iron sights so one may choose which sighting system to use. If I recommend any "old", AKM variant, it is most usually the AKMN. It is the most multi-purpose AKM variant there is, and that optics rail is wonderful. It can serve as a mount for red dot optics and magnified optics alike (night vision, too!).

Let's say you've advanced beyond the AKM, though, and are looking for some more "modern" AKs. This is where the AK-74 and its variants come into play. The AK-74 was adopted in 1974 and it was Russia's answer to the M16 family. Its 5.45x39mm round is kind of a "me, too!" round as they wished to copy the American 5.56NATO cartridge. However, in their drunken stupor, the Russians managed to make a much more effective round. The 5.45x39mm round is very unstable after coming in contact with any kind of obstruction. This limits its penetration quite a bit, but the tissue damage it inflicts is unparalleled. The AK-74 family really tears up soft targets.

Even more modern still is the AK-100-series of AKs. The AK-101 and AK-102 are 5.56x45mm NATO variants of the AK. They're basically a re-chambered AK-74M. The AK-103 and AK-104 are the new, modern 7.62x39mm variants of the AK. I, in all honesty, believe these are the most superior models of the AK family. Stick to the AK-74M, AK-101, or AK-103 for your full-sized AK rifles (or AK-107, AK-108, or AK-109 if you wish to utilize the BARS anti-recoil dual-piston assembly). For carbines, the AK-102, AK-104, and AK-105 are your answers. Shorter still is the AKS-74u. However, if you're looking for a more modern variant, the AK-12 is still undergoing its testing stages, but there is fair potential it will be adopted for use at some time in the near future. Though I discourage its use due to its lack of true production during 2012, within a few years it will probably be a perfectly acceptable answer: models are supposedly supposed to be imported in 2013 in semi-automatic form to the United States. So, I suppose you could either be a nation from 2012+ or a nation that is using an alternate history in which the AK-12 was adopted earlier. Either way, if you're using weapons from 2012 or onwards, it should be perfectly acceptable, and it is being offered in multiple calibers (5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 12 Gauge, and there is talk of 6.5 Grendel variants).

So, basically, what are you planning on doing with your military? Here's a list of actual "WE USE TEH AK-15 WIHT BULLETGLOCKS" models that are, well, acceptable for the listed roles in the AK family, and I've went ahead and separated them by general effective range.

Medium to Long Range/Designated Marksman Rifle
Romanian PSL: ten rounds, semi-automatic 7.62x54mmR
Yugoslavian M76: ten rounds, semi-automatic (or fully automatic if done correctly) 7.92x57mm IS (export versions of 7.62 NATO)
Israeli AR/ARM (Galil): twenty-five rounds, select-fire (safe, semi, full), 7.62x51mm NATO.
Finnish Rk 76/M76 (rifles were exported only): twenty rounds, semi-automatic, 7.62x51mm NATO.

Medium Range
Russian
Type-I (1948 to 1949) -- 7.62x39mm
Type-II (1949 to 1953) -- 7.62x39mm
Type-III (1953 to 1959) -- 7.62x39mm
AKM -- 7.62x39mm
AKMN -- 7.62x39mm
AKMS -- 7.62x39mm
AKMP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMLP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSN -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSNP -- 7.62x39mm
AK-74 -- 5.45x39mm
AKS-74 -- 5.45x39mm
AK-74M -- 5.45x39mm
AK-101 -- 5.56x45mm
AK-103 -- 7.62x39mm
Finnish
Rk 62/M62 -- 7.62x39mm
Rk 71/M71 -- 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm NATO
Rk 76_/M76_ -- 7.62x39mm (5.56 NATO export versions)
Rk 95 -- 7.62x39mm
Hungarian
AMD-63 -- 7.62x39mm
AMD-65 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63F -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63D -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63MF -- 7.62x39mm
Israeli
AR/ARM (Galil) -- 5.56x45mm
Yugoslavian
M70 -- 7.62x39mm
M70A -- 7.62x39mm
M70A1 -- 7.62x39mm
M70B1 -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB2 -- 7.62x39mm
M70B1N -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB2N -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB3 -- 7.62x39mm
M90 -- 5.56x45mm
M90A -- 5.56x45mm
M21 -- 5.56x45mm
Polish
PmK (kbk) -- 7.62x39mm
Kbkg wz. 1960 -- 7.62x39mm
kbk -- 7.62x39mm
kbk wz. 1981 -- 5.45x39mm
kbk wz. 1988 -- 5.45x39mm
Beryl -- 5.56x45mm
Egyptian
Misr (AKM and AKMS) -- 7.62x39mm
Iraq
Tabuk DMR (semi-automatic RPK) -- 7.62x39mm
Chinese
Type-56 -- 7.62x39mm
Type-56-I -- 7.62x39mm
Type-56-II -- 7.62x39mm
QBZ-56C -- 7.62x39mm
Type-81 -- 7.62x39mm
Germany
MPi-K -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KS -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KM -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KMS-72 -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KMS-74 -- 5.45x39mm
Korea
Type-58A -- 7.62x39mm
Type-58B -- 7.62x39mm
Type-68A -- 7.62x39mm
Type-68B -- 7.62x39mm
Type-88 -- 7.62x39mm
Romania
PM md. 63 -- 7.62x39mm
PM md. 90 -- 7.62x39mm
PA md. 86 -- 5.45x39mm

Short-range Weapons
AKS-74u -- 5.45x39mm
AK-102 -- 5.56x45mm
AK-104 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-105 -- 5.45x39mm
kbk wz. 1996 "Mini-Beryl" -- 5.56x45mm
PM md. 65 -- 7.62x39mm
M85 -- 5.56x45mm
M92 -- 7.62x39mm
SAR (Galil) -- 5.56x45mm
SLR-107CR (forget Bulgaria's military designation) -- 7.62x39mm
SLR-107UR (see above) -- 7.62x39mm

Now that you've decided which model it is that you're actually going to use, it's time to decide on a caliber and an optic. What's the best caliber? Well, I'll talk in terms of the assault rifles/carbines as the longer-range weapons are really a freedom of choice type of thing. So, we're basically down to 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, and 7.62x39mm. Let's discuss 5.45x39mm first, shall we? Rhetorical question.

5.45x39mm
Okay, so you've chosen the "me, too" cartridge. What can we expect? Well, the 5.45x39mm round is capable of penetrating some armored vests, but not at very long ranges at all. Let's just refer to it as standard ball FMJ, regardless of type, for simplicity here. You can make your own uber-cool loads for it later. Alright, so the 5.45x39mm round is designed with a small air cavity in the front. This makes the round rear-heavy and very unstable. Upon impacting a target, it begins to tumble almost immediately. The flesh wounds caused by this round are devastating. This is probably the most lethal round to choose for an AK if going against unarmed opponents in semi-open ground (see Afghanistan invasion). The 5.45x39mm extends the AK-74's (and derivatives) range from the standard AK's 300m to about 400m. It will get about 2.0MOA accuracy, so that means 8.0MOA at that outer limit of its range: well within the chest. This round is also very light recoiling and, with the proper muzzle brake, is therefore easily controllable. There are a few AK-74 variants utilizing a recoil-countering piston (BARS), but I did not list these variants above as they are, to my understanding, very much so specialist items. Going back to wound capabilities, please note that the 5.45x39mm round is not good for penetrating barriers.
Pros
Accurate (2.0MOA)
Longer effective range (400m)
Very easy to control
Devastating on flesh targets
Cons
Tumbles upon impact with obstacles (jungle warfare would be less effective)
Less barrier penetration

5.56x45mm NATO
Go read a book. No, seriously: there's thousands.

7.62x39mm
7.62x39mm is, in my opinion, the best round for the AK. The original M43 ammunition was lead-core FMJ through-and-through (or steel for AP). It is known for penetrating barriers and packing a good ol' .30-caliber slug in its casing. In 1967, the Yugoslavians created the M67 cartridge of 7.62x39mm. This is now the most widely used 7.62x39mm round. It features a hollowed nose cavity similar to the 5.45x39mm, but it isn't as large compared to the rest of the round. This lets it mushroom out a bit and yaw inside of flesh, but it still retains most of its barrier-penetrating capabilities. It's kind of a middle-ground cartridge, but its effective range is honestly only 300m. The recoil, while not horrible, is not preferable for sustained fully-automatic firing, but in bursts or semi-automatic fire, it should stay relatively on-target.
Pros
It's freaking 7.62x39mm
Penetrates barriers easier
Retains some flesh-destroying qualities
Most common AK round -- pretty much every single country in the world has some of it somewhere
Good-sized .30-caliber hole, even with no expansion
AK-103/AK-104 accuracy of 2.0MOA
Cons
More felt recoil
More noticeable muzzle climb
Pre-AK-100 series, accuracy of ~3.5MOA

Of course, there are some AKs that fire 6.8SPC, 7.62x51mm NATO, 7.92x57mm IS, 7.62x54mmR, et cetera, et cetera, but those are pretty much specialty weapons and, therefore, not truly "main military weapons" unless you are issuing battle rifle equivalents as standard-issue.

As for optics, unless you're wanting to issue a quasi-DMR in each squad (POSP or PSO is highly recommended) or perhaps an ACOG (or similar) on a Beryl/Krebs/TWI Dogleg-style receiver cover rail. As for standard infantry use, however, stick to red-dot optics or other no-magnification optics. These can be had via Russian Kobra, PK-A, PK-AS, 1P63 Obzor, anything else on this site or, if you're feeling Western and pig-doggish, you can utilize a quad-rail/gas tube rail/etc. and put a small red dot (like an AimPoint of some kind: EOTechs would be too tall) on that top rail. If it sits low enough, it should co-witness with the iron sights, giving you a back-up sighting system in the event your red dot optic is damaged/destroyed/dead/otherwise unusable.
So, yeah, you can say you use the AK-47, but unless you fall within that time frame of pre-AK production Russia, then fuck you.

Have a nice day.

What is hydrostaric shock?

Puzikas wrote:
Puzikas wrote:Please forgive the period of time it takes me to write this.

Hydrostatic shock is the principal that a projectile (read: bullet) of a very high rate of velocity and a smaller size is more terminal on a soft target than those of the slow and heavy variety. The good 9mm vs. .45ACP debate.

I will not say if I believe it or not; and I will not say you should all immediately change to one or the other. I will let my facts dictate your minds.

In Fluid Dynamics, Shock is defined as "Referring to an abrupt discontinuity in the flow field". Lost? Stay with me. It is caused by the coalescing of sound and pressure waves in the medium.
Still with me? Good.

Now, Hydrostatic shock is based upon the observation that a penetrating projectile is able to produce unforeseen wounding effects, causing wounding and incapacitating, in a live target. This is due to an effect in our liquid filled tissues, as we are, mostly, water. There is evidence that suggests hemorrhaging effects are possible, if not a common occurrence. Neurological effects can be found as well. This wounding effect is due to a pressure wave that moves though our bodies, displacing and damaging organs and soft tissue, as well as blood vessels. These findings were first reported and affirmed in the late 1940s following studies from the second world war.

If the effect exists, typically wounds away from the wound channel would be present with these fast moving, light projectile struck s live target. Sure enough, they do. A study of 30 kills in Iraq showed a projectile moving at 2,500FPS+ (760M/s+) did indeed show wounding effects away from the projectiles path.

Im sorry this isn't in depth, but I'm still working.

Edit time.

What does this mean?

This means that a large, slow-moving bullet, while dealing large amount of soft tissue damage, as well as internal damage, may NOT be as effective on a soft target. There are rounds designed to kill by what is called a "yaw", basically the deformation and traveling of said deformed bullet. In a military application, this is moot, as they were deemed unlawful (Yes, laws in war) some time ago. In a lethal area they will kill, just as well as any fat mover, but in a non-lethal? They may not incapacitate/kill as quickly as a fast-moving, small projectile.

Now, that is not to say everyone should dun out and start developing a sniper rifle in 5.56x85 or something. A large round is JUST as effective. Though in terms of a main service rifle,he who carries more ammunition is better off than he who does not. And lets not forget in many cases these smaller, faster rounds do not offer as good as armor penetration as larger, heavier rounds (See: 5.45x39 versus 7.62x39).

Looking to learn more about small arms, and their application?

What is a "small arm"?

A helpful infograph, besides the AK at the bottom, and a few other minor issues.

A Ballistic energy calculator

Whats a Macine Gun? A light machine gun? How about a General purpose or Medium Machine gun? How about heavy Machine gun?

And on that note, what the hell is a Chain gun, Minigun, or a Gatling gun?

Are you looking develop your own small arms? Check out this list for stable rounds to use as a main service round!

Thank you and have a nice day.

by **Nua Corda** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:43 am

first!

And thus, I get to show y'all what might have been;

by **Spirit of Hope** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:44 am

I have arrived!

7mm×40mm
Type: Rifle
Origin: Erisinta
Designer: Manuel Arms
Case type: Telescoped Polymer
Bullet diameter: 7 mm
Base diameter: 11.5 mm
Overall length: 50mm
Rifling Twist: 1 in 12
Ballistics:
Bullet weight: 9 g, Velocity: 900 m/s, Energy 3,645 J (From a 500 mm barrel)

AR 2000 OR The Millennia Gun
Cartridge: 7mm×40mm
Action: Long stroke piston/ Swinging chamber
Rate of fire: 500 rounds/min
Effective range: 600 meters (standard, range varies with model)
Weight: 2.72 kg (unloaded, standard), 3.17 kg (loaded, standard)
Barrel Length: 504 mm(standard), 600 mm (DMR), 408 mm (carbine), 360 mm (PDW),
Total Length: 718 mm (standard), 814 mm (DMR), 622 mm (carbine), 574 mm (PDW),

Bull pup, 30 round detachable box magazine.

GPMG 2000 OR The Millennia Light Machine Gun
Cartridge: 7mm×40mm
Action: Long stroke piston/ Swinging chamber
Rate of fire: 650 rounds/min
Effective range: 800 meters
Weight: 4.8 kg (unloaded), 6.3 kg (loaded)
Barrel Length: 600 mm (standard), 504 mm (compact), 712 mm (support)
Total Length: 1100 mm (standard), 1000 mm (compact), 1212 mm (support)

Traditional layout, disintegrating belt standard 100 rounds.

MMW of Spirit of Hope!

by **Kouralia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:44 am

EDIT: HAH! First proper post! It's the MMW thread, guys!

Stats:

Designation: Assault Rifle
Weight - 3.7 kg (Loaded, with iron sights and carbine hand-guard)
Length - 785 mm (30.9 in)
Cyclic RoF - 750rpm
Fire Types - Fully Automatic and Semi-Automatic
Method of Feed - 30 round detachable box magazines
Maximum Recommended Combat Range - 400m
Barrel Length - 518 mm (20.4 in)
Calibre - 7x43mm British

by **Benomia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:45 am

Full writeup for the Benomia MMW coming soon...

by **Crookfur** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:47 am

150 yars of Crookfur smalls history in 2 images:

from this

http://www.drmeatballs.com/crookfur/ima ... lfield.png

To this:

http://www.drmeatballs.com/crookfur/images/SX23A2.png

by **Bajireyn** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:47 am

Not my MMW, but its the only gun I have linearted at the moment.

I present the M445 LMCR!

by **Spreewerke** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:47 am

THIS IS THE AK-47:

YOU DON' DID AIN'T GON' HAVE TIME FO' USIN' DAT. IS OF PROTOTYPE OF WHICH ONLY HANDFUL MAKE.

ALSO, MAIN WEAPONINGS OF SPREEWERKE IN OF PRESENT TIME IS ARE FOLLOWING:

by **Kouralia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:48 am

Crookfur wrote:150 yars of Crookfur smalls history in 2 images:

from this

http://www.drmeatballs.com/crookfur/ima ... lfield.png

To this:

http://www.drmeatballs.com/crookfur/images/SX23A2.png

Is that a sexy, sexy SUSAT I see there?

by **Purpelia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:48 am

That chart of yours is totally missing 7.5 Swiss...

by **Tule** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:49 am

The M71 Rifle, 6.35mm.

M77 Carbine at the bottom.

by **Benomia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:51 am

Nua Corda wrote:first!

And thus, I get to show y'all what might have been;

Ladies and gentlemen please,
Would you bring your attention to me?
For a feast for your eyes to see,
An explosion of catastrophe.

Like nothing you've ever seen before,
Watch closely as I open this door,
Your jaws will be on the floor,
After this you'll be begging for more

- Saliva, Ladies and Gentlemen

Welcome, meine damen und herren, to the 8th Iteration of the famous (or infamous),
Main Military Weapon of your Country Thread

I, Nua Corda, formerly known as New Corda, and informally known as Corda, Kanine1134, or "That ass-hat who doesn't like bayonets" have been granted the great honor and privilege of OPing this round of battle rifle-ridden lulz, and that's precisely what I intend to do. First things first;

Teh Rulez

#1: Read the OP. The MMW Thread OP is a sacred document, stuffed with knowledge acquired throughout the course of the thread, not just me shamelessly whoring myself and my lineart. In it, myself and previous OPs have deigned to dispense upon you a few choice tidbits of firearms knowledge that will make your stay here a lot more pleasant. So, if you skip it, fine. Just don't come crying to me when the regulars tear you apart.

#2: By posting your ideas, designs, loadouts, etc. you are accepting that they WILL be criticized. You're hardly obligated to accept that criticism (though it's an excellent idea), but you don't get to whine about it when someone explains to you that issuing all your troops miniguns and EOD suits is an abysmal idea. To my fellow regulars; This is not an excuse to flame, bait, insult or generally treat newbies terribly.

#3: Be civil. This is a Nationstates MilTech thread, not /k/. I don't think I need to say this, but Site Rules still apply. We also happen to have our own personal Moderator, Transnapastain, who is a regular participant, and does not hesitate to put an immediate halt to any asshattery. We've only had 5 warnings and one ban in this thread, let's keep it that way, eh?

#4: This Thread is for Man-Portable or Mounted "Small Arms" used by your nation. While we permit, and even encourage, general military and firearms discussion, chatting, and the occasional off-topic lulz, It is Not the place for one-line posts about your nation's land vehicles, aircraft, warships or weapons of mass destruction. Those would be the Your Nation's Main Battle Tank thread, Your Nation's Main Fighter Plane Thread, Your Nation's Primary Warship Thread or NS Military Realism Consultation Thread, respectively. If you're not sure where something goes, the Realism Consultation Thread is a safe bet.

#5: While this thread certainly can be IC, you will often see people posting OOCly. Not only is this OK, it's mod-sanctioned. Think of it as The Eternal for gun nuts.

#6: It's a running gag in this thread that if a person top-pages, they are expected to post an image of a gun. Preferably one that relates to the page number somehow.

The Dog
(Image)
There will be no, I repeat, NO gun control discussion in this thread, or so help me Raptor Jesus I will shoot this dog. If you want to whine about "teh ebil redneks wit teh scary bwack wifles" or "teh ebil gubernments what be wantin to tak mah freedom", you take that shit to General.

On the Subject of the AK-47

The AK-47 is not an acceptable answer

You want the short version? The "AK-47" was a prototype weapon used in Soviet military trials in 1946 and 1947. It was never used by actual combat troops, ever. The first AKs issued were the AK Types I - III. They lasted from 1947 to 1959. The weapon you think is the AK-47, is actually called the AKM, and it's a far superior weapon to the prototype, or the Types I-III.

For the finer details on the AK-47, AKs in general, a comprehensive list of AK types, and some good advice on what type of Kalashnikova to use, allow me to quote our resident AK nerd, Spreewerke;

Spreewerke wrote:
That said, there are a couple of things that aren't acceptable answers, unless you fit very specific criteria. The most obvious of these is that the 'AK-47' is not an acceptable answer. If you have a problem with that, feel free to talk to me about it. Why isn't that an acceptable answer, though? Spoiler time!

No, seriously, read this: The AK-47 was designed in 1946 and formally adopted by the Soviet military in 1949. There were four models used between 1947 and 1959: The AK-47 was the test and trials designation for the rifle: the earlier prototypes, made in 1946, were referred to as the AK-1 and AK-2. After the adoption of the rifle, it was designated simply as the "AK". However, due to three variants of the AK being made, it is more proper to refer to these variants as the "AK Type-#" rather than just "AK" as the three variants differed quite significantly from one another. Due to that, the term "AK" has more or less become a catch-all for just about all AK variants, and does not necessarily refer to one specific model. The Type-I, adopted in late 1948, featured an early, stamped receiver, but it was quickly (and I mean quickly) replaced by the Type-II AK in 1949. This featured a milled receiver, a stock boot, and some other small, yet somewhat significant changes. The Type-III is the most common "AK-47," and it is basically just a milled predecessor of the rifle you should be using. What rifle is that?

Enter the AKM.

The AKM is the modernized version of the Type-III assault rifle. It utilizes a stamped receiver, reinforced receiver cover, slanted muzzle brake, vented gas block, and a rear sight leaf showing distances of 100m to 1,000m among other things. In reality, it is only acceptably accurate out to 300m on a good day. The AKM is the most widespread AK variant in the world. Almost every foreign-made AK (Yugoslavian, Hungarian, Polish, etc) variant in the world is based off of the AKM. Why? It's more reliable and just as accurate as the original AKs, not to mention much cheaper to produce. It is the Kalashnikov rifle. They come in a variety of, well, variants, which include models with forward, wooden grips, underfolding MP40-style stocks, side-folding wire stocks, and, of course, fixed, wooden stocks. They fire the 7.62x39mm cartridge. Folding-stocked AKMs are designated as AKMS.

The AKMN is the most useful of the AKMs, however, as it utilizes the famous Russian optics rail on the receiver. This allows the user to attach a variety of slide-on optics that do not lose zero and, sometimes, co-witness or, most usually, sit above the iron sights so one may choose which sighting system to use. If I recommend any "old", AKM variant, it is most usually the AKMN. It is the most multi-purpose AKM variant there is, and that optics rail is wonderful. It can serve as a mount for red dot optics and magnified optics alike (night vision, too!).

Let's say you've advanced beyond the AKM, though, and are looking for some more "modern" AKs. This is where the AK-74 and its variants come into play. The AK-74 was adopted in 1974 and it was Russia's answer to the M16 family. Its 5.45x39mm round is kind of a "me, too!" round as they wished to copy the American 5.56NATO cartridge. However, in their drunken stupor, the Russians managed to make a much more effective round. The 5.45x39mm round is very unstable after coming in contact with any kind of obstruction. This limits its penetration quite a bit, but the tissue damage it inflicts is unparalleled. The AK-74 family really tears up soft targets.

Even more modern still is the AK-100-series of AKs. The AK-101 and AK-102 are 5.56x45mm NATO variants of the AK. They're basically a re-chambered AK-74M. The AK-103 and AK-104 are the new, modern 7.62x39mm variants of the AK. I, in all honesty, believe these are the most superior models of the AK family. Stick to the AK-74M, AK-101, or AK-103 for your full-sized AK rifles (or AK-107, AK-108, or AK-109 if you wish to utilize the BARS anti-recoil dual-piston assembly). For carbines, the AK-102, AK-104, and AK-105 are your answers. Shorter still is the AKS-74u. However, if you're looking for a more modern variant, the AK-12 is still undergoing its testing stages, but there is fair potential it will be adopted for use at some time in the near future. Though I discourage its use due to its lack of true production during 2012, within a few years it will probably be a perfectly acceptable answer: models are supposedly supposed to be imported in 2013 in semi-automatic form to the United States. So, I suppose you could either be a nation from 2012+ or a nation that is using an alternate history in which the AK-12 was adopted earlier. Either way, if you're using weapons from 2012 or onwards, it should be perfectly acceptable, and it is being offered in multiple calibers (5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 12 Gauge, and there is talk of 6.5 Grendel variants).

So, basically, what are you planning on doing with your military? Here's a list of actual "WE USE TEH AK-15 WIHT BULLETGLOCKS" models that are, well, acceptable for the listed roles in the AK family, and I've went ahead and separated them by general effective range.

Medium to Long Range/Designated Marksman Rifle
Romanian PSL: ten rounds, semi-automatic 7.62x54mmR
Yugoslavian M76: ten rounds, semi-automatic (or fully automatic if done correctly) 7.92x57mm IS (export versions of 7.62 NATO)
Israeli AR/ARM (Galil): twenty-five rounds, select-fire (safe, semi, full), 7.62x51mm NATO.
Finnish Rk 76/M76 (rifles were exported only): twenty rounds, semi-automatic, 7.62x51mm NATO.

Medium Range
Russian
Type-I (1948 to 1949) -- 7.62x39mm
Type-II (1949 to 1953) -- 7.62x39mm
Type-III (1953 to 1959) -- 7.62x39mm
AKM -- 7.62x39mm
AKMN -- 7.62x39mm
AKMS -- 7.62x39mm
AKMP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMLP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSN -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSNP -- 7.62x39mm
AK-74 -- 5.45x39mm
AKS-74 -- 5.45x39mm
AK-74M -- 5.45x39mm
AK-101 -- 5.56x45mm
AK-103 -- 7.62x39mm
Finnish
Rk 62/M62 -- 7.62x39mm
Rk 71/M71 -- 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm NATO
Rk 76_/M76_ -- 7.62x39mm (5.56 NATO export versions)
Rk 95 -- 7.62x39mm
Hungarian
AMD-63 -- 7.62x39mm
AMD-65 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63F -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63D -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63MF -- 7.62x39mm
Israeli
AR/ARM (Galil) -- 5.56x45mm
Yugoslavian
M70 -- 7.62x39mm
M70A -- 7.62x39mm
M70A1 -- 7.62x39mm
M70B1 -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB2 -- 7.62x39mm
M70B1N -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB2N -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB3 -- 7.62x39mm
M90 -- 5.56x45mm
M90A -- 5.56x45mm
M21 -- 5.56x45mm
Polish
PmK (kbk) -- 7.62x39mm
Kbkg wz. 1960 -- 7.62x39mm
kbk -- 7.62x39mm
kbk wz. 1981 -- 5.45x39mm
kbk wz. 1988 -- 5.45x39mm
Beryl -- 5.56x45mm
Egyptian
Misr (AKM and AKMS) -- 7.62x39mm
Iraq
Tabuk DMR (semi-automatic RPK) -- 7.62x39mm
Chinese
Type-56 -- 7.62x39mm
Type-56-I -- 7.62x39mm
Type-56-II -- 7.62x39mm
QBZ-56C -- 7.62x39mm
Type-81 -- 7.62x39mm
Germany
MPi-K -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KS -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KM -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KMS-72 -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KMS-74 -- 5.45x39mm
Korea
Type-58A -- 7.62x39mm
Type-58B -- 7.62x39mm
Type-68A -- 7.62x39mm
Type-68B -- 7.62x39mm
Type-88 -- 7.62x39mm
Romania
PM md. 63 -- 7.62x39mm
PM md. 90 -- 7.62x39mm
PA md. 86 -- 5.45x39mm

Short-range Weapons
AKS-74u -- 5.45x39mm
AK-102 -- 5.56x45mm
AK-104 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-105 -- 5.45x39mm
kbk wz. 1996 "Mini-Beryl" -- 5.56x45mm
PM md. 65 -- 7.62x39mm
M85 -- 5.56x45mm
M92 -- 7.62x39mm
SAR (Galil) -- 5.56x45mm
SLR-107CR (forget Bulgaria's military designation) -- 7.62x39mm
SLR-107UR (see above) -- 7.62x39mm

Now that you've decided which model it is that you're actually going to use, it's time to decide on a caliber and an optic. What's the best caliber? Well, I'll talk in terms of the assault rifles/carbines as the longer-range weapons are really a freedom of choice type of thing. So, we're basically down to 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, and 7.62x39mm. Let's discuss 5.45x39mm first, shall we? Rhetorical question.

5.45x39mm
Okay, so you've chosen the "me, too" cartridge. What can we expect? Well, the 5.45x39mm round is capable of penetrating some armored vests, but not at very long ranges at all. Let's just refer to it as standard ball FMJ, regardless of type, for simplicity here. You can make your own uber-cool loads for it later. Alright, so the 5.45x39mm round is designed with a small air cavity in the front. This makes the round rear-heavy and very unstable. Upon impacting a target, it begins to tumble almost immediately. The flesh wounds caused by this round are devastating. This is probably the most lethal round to choose for an AK if going against unarmed opponents in semi-open ground (see Afghanistan invasion). The 5.45x39mm extends the AK-74's (and derivatives) range from the standard AK's 300m to about 400m. It will get about 2.0MOA accuracy, so that means 8.0MOA at that outer limit of its range: well within the chest. This round is also very light recoiling and, with the proper muzzle brake, is therefore easily controllable. There are a few AK-74 variants utilizing a recoil-countering piston (BARS), but I did not list these variants above as they are, to my understanding, very much so specialist items. Going back to wound capabilities, please note that the 5.45x39mm round is not good for penetrating barriers.
Pros
Accurate (2.0MOA)
Longer effective range (400m)
Very easy to control
Devastating on flesh targets
Cons
Tumbles upon impact with obstacles (jungle warfare would be less effective)
Less barrier penetration

5.56x45mm NATO
Go read a book. No, seriously: there's thousands.

7.62x39mm
7.62x39mm is, in my opinion, the best round for the AK. The original M43 ammunition was lead-core FMJ through-and-through (or steel for AP). It is known for penetrating barriers and packing a good ol' .30-caliber slug in its casing. In 1967, the Yugoslavians created the M67 cartridge of 7.62x39mm. This is now the most widely used 7.62x39mm round. It features a hollowed nose cavity similar to the 5.45x39mm, but it isn't as large compared to the rest of the round. This lets it mushroom out a bit and yaw inside of flesh, but it still retains most of its barrier-penetrating capabilities. It's kind of a middle-ground cartridge, but its effective range is honestly only 300m. The recoil, while not horrible, is not preferable for sustained fully-automatic firing, but in bursts or semi-automatic fire, it should stay relatively on-target.
Pros
It's freaking 7.62x39mm
Penetrates barriers easier
Retains some flesh-destroying qualities
Most common AK round -- pretty much every single country in the world has some of it somewhere
Good-sized .30-caliber hole, even with no expansion
AK-103/AK-104 accuracy of 2.0MOA
Cons
More felt recoil
More noticeable muzzle climb
Pre-AK-100 series, accuracy of ~3.5MOA

Of course, there are some AKs that fire 6.8SPC, 7.62x51mm NATO, 7.92x57mm IS, 7.62x54mmR, et cetera, et cetera, but those are pretty much specialty weapons and, therefore, not truly "main military weapons" unless you are issuing battle rifle equivalents as standard-issue.

As for optics, unless you're wanting to issue a quasi-DMR in each squad (POSP or PSO is highly recommended) or perhaps an ACOG (or similar) on a Beryl/Krebs/TWI Dogleg-style receiver cover rail. As for standard infantry use, however, stick to red-dot optics or other no-magnification optics. These can be had via Russian Kobra, PK-A, PK-AS, 1P63 Obzor, anything else on this site or, if you're feeling Western and pig-doggish, you can utilize a quad-rail/gas tube rail/etc. and put a small red dot (like an AimPoint of some kind: EOTechs would be too tall) on that top rail. If it sits low enough, it should co-witness with the iron sights, giving you a back-up sighting system in the event your red dot optic is damaged/destroyed/dead/otherwise unusable.
So, yeah, you can say you use the AK-47, but unless you fall within that time frame of pre-AK production Russia, then fuck you.

Have a nice day.

General Advice and Tips

This thread has a pretty big population of very knowledgeable people. They are (for the most part) willing to help. The following is a loose collection of helpful resources on firearms, ammunition, and general tactics.

Courtesy of Puzikas;

With that, good people, I leave you to it. Remember; be nice, be respectful, be smart and keep an open mind. And don't worry; if you ever do something absolutely pants-on-head stupid, there's always the Mess Webley:

The metaphorical pistol handed to an Officer with which he can save himself the ignominy of having to resign his commission and leave the Mess with honour by doing the decent thing.
Traditionally stored in the third drawer down in the anteroom desk. See following for instructions of usage and general Mess etiquette:
Of course if you have been a total rotter and cad...
It's worth remembering that the Mess Webley will be of .455 calibre so do remember that if the Mess has recently been re-carpeted or painted, you might consider putting down some newspaper before doing the decent thing, otherwise you will leave your former fellow Mess members with the deuce of a bill which will probably dampen enthusiasm at your wake - alternatively take a bottle of whisky with you into the woods...

That would have been the longest OP in history of ever NS ever.

by **Spreewerke** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:51 am

Tule wrote:(Image)

The M71 Rifle, 6.35mm.

M77 Carbine at the bottom.

I really like this design. Long-stroke piston?

by **Puzikas** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:52 am

Purpelia wrote:That chart of yours is totally missing 7.5 Swiss...

Ya never asked.

I shall add it. The chart isn't set in stone.

by **Nua Corda** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:52 am

Benomia wrote:
Nua Corda wrote:first!

And thus, I get to show y'all what might have been;

Ladies and gentlemen please,
Would you bring your attention to me?
For a feast for your eyes to see,
An explosion of catastrophe.

Like nothing you've ever seen before,
Watch closely as I open this door,
Your jaws will be on the floor,
After this you'll be begging for more

- Saliva, Ladies and Gentlemen

Welcome, meine damen und herren, to the 8th Iteration of the famous (or infamous),
Main Military Weapon of your Country Thread

I, Nua Corda, formerly known as New Corda, and informally known as Corda, Kanine1134, or "That ass-hat who doesn't like bayonets" have been granted the great honor and privilege of OPing this round of battle rifle-ridden lulz, and that's precisely what I intend to do. First things first;

Teh Rulez

#1: Read the OP. The MMW Thread OP is a sacred document, stuffed with knowledge acquired throughout the course of the thread, not just me shamelessly whoring myself and my lineart. In it, myself and previous OPs have deigned to dispense upon you a few choice tidbits of firearms knowledge that will make your stay here a lot more pleasant. So, if you skip it, fine. Just don't come crying to me when the regulars tear you apart.

#2: By posting your ideas, designs, loadouts, etc. you are accepting that they WILL be criticized. You're hardly obligated to accept that criticism (though it's an excellent idea), but you don't get to whine about it when someone explains to you that issuing all your troops miniguns and EOD suits is an abysmal idea. To my fellow regulars; This is not an excuse to flame, bait, insult or generally treat newbies terribly.

#3: Be civil. This is a Nationstates MilTech thread, not /k/. I don't think I need to say this, but Site Rules still apply. We also happen to have our own personal Moderator, Transnapastain, who is a regular participant, and does not hesitate to put an immediate halt to any asshattery. We've only had 5 warnings and one ban in this thread, let's keep it that way, eh?

#4: This Thread is for Man-Portable or Mounted "Small Arms" used by your nation. While we permit, and even encourage, general military and firearms discussion, chatting, and the occasional off-topic lulz, It is Not the place for one-line posts about your nation's land vehicles, aircraft, warships or weapons of mass destruction. Those would be the Your Nation's Main Battle Tank thread, Your Nation's Main Fighter Plane Thread, Your Nation's Primary Warship Thread or NS Military Realism Consultation Thread, respectively. If you're not sure where something goes, the Realism Consultation Thread is a safe bet.

#5: While this thread certainly can be IC, you will often see people posting OOCly. Not only is this OK, it's mod-sanctioned. Think of it as The Eternal for gun nuts.

#6: It's a running gag in this thread that if a person top-pages, they are expected to post an image of a gun. Preferably one that relates to the page number somehow.

The Dog
(Image)
There will be no, I repeat, NO gun control discussion in this thread, or so help me Raptor Jesus I will shoot this dog. If you want to whine about "teh ebil redneks wit teh scary bwack wifles" or "teh ebil gubernments what be wantin to tak mah freedom", you take that shit to General.

On the Subject of the AK-47

The AK-47 is not an acceptable answer

You want the short version? The "AK-47" was a prototype weapon used in Soviet military trials in 1946 and 1947. It was never used by actual combat troops, ever. The first AKs issued were the AK Types I - III. They lasted from 1947 to 1959. The weapon you think is the AK-47, is actually called the AKM, and it's a far superior weapon to the prototype, or the Types I-III.

For the finer details on the AK-47, AKs in general, a comprehensive list of AK types, and some good advice on what type of Kalashnikova to use, allow me to quote our resident AK nerd, Spreewerke;

General Advice and Tips

This thread has a pretty big population of very knowledgeable people. They are (for the most part) willing to help. The following is a loose collection of helpful resources on firearms, ammunition, and general tactics.

Courtesy of Puzikas;
(Image)

With that, good people, I leave you to it. Remember; be nice, be respectful, be smart and keep an open mind. And don't worry; if you ever do something absolutely pants-on-head stupid, there's always the Mess Webley:

(Image)

The metaphorical pistol handed to an Officer with which he can save himself the ignominy of having to resign his commission and leave the Mess with honour by doing the decent thing.
Traditionally stored in the third drawer down in the anteroom desk. See following for instructions of usage and general Mess etiquette:
Of course if you have been a total rotter and cad...
It's worth remembering that the Mess Webley will be of .455 calibre so do remember that if the Mess has recently been re-carpeted or painted, you might consider putting down some newspaper before doing the decent thing, otherwise you will leave your former fellow Mess members with the deuce of a bill which will probably dampen enthusiasm at your wake - alternatively take a bottle of whisky with you into the woods...

That would have been the longest OP in history of ever NS ever.

Normally, Spree's post would have been mostly spoilered, but since you can't spoiler a spoiler...

by **Vladmiristan** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:53 am

Alexandrov Kalashnikov AK-107 with white phosphorus grenade launcher

by **Bajireyn** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:53 am

Nua Corda wrote:first!

And thus, I get to show y'all what might have been;

Ladies and gentlemen please,
Would you bring your attention to me?
For a feast for your eyes to see,
An explosion of catastrophe.

Like nothing you've ever seen before,
Watch closely as I open this door,
Your jaws will be on the floor,
After this you'll be begging for more

- Saliva, Ladies and Gentlemen

Welcome, meine damen und herren, to the 8th Iteration of the famous (or infamous),
Main Military Weapon of your Country Thread

I, Nua Corda, formerly known as New Corda, and informally known as Corda, Kanine1134, or "That ass-hat who doesn't like bayonets" have been granted the great honor and privilege of OPing this round of battle rifle-ridden lulz, and that's precisely what I intend to do. First things first;

Teh Rulez

#1: Read the OP. The MMW Thread OP is a sacred document, stuffed with knowledge acquired throughout the course of the thread, not just me shamelessly whoring myself and my lineart. In it, myself and previous OPs have deigned to dispense upon you a few choice tidbits of firearms knowledge that will make your stay here a lot more pleasant. So, if you skip it, fine. Just don't come crying to me when the regulars tear you apart.

#2: By posting your ideas, designs, loadouts, etc. you are accepting that they WILL be criticized. You're hardly obligated to accept that criticism (though it's an excellent idea), but you don't get to whine about it when someone explains to you that issuing all your troops miniguns and EOD suits is an abysmal idea. To my fellow regulars; This is not an excuse to flame, bait, insult or generally treat newbies terribly.

#3: Be civil. This is a Nationstates MilTech thread, not /k/. I don't think I need to say this, but Site Rules still apply. We also happen to have our own personal Moderator, Transnapastain, who is a regular participant, and does not hesitate to put an immediate halt to any asshattery. We've only had 5 warnings and one ban in this thread, let's keep it that way, eh?

#4: This Thread is for Man-Portable or Mounted "Small Arms" used by your nation. While we permit, and even encourage, general military and firearms discussion, chatting, and the occasional off-topic lulz, It is Not the place for one-line posts about your nation's land vehicles, aircraft, warships or weapons of mass destruction. Those would be the Your Nation's Main Battle Tank thread, Your Nation's Main Fighter Plane Thread, Your Nation's Primary Warship Thread or NS Military Realism Consultation Thread, respectively. If you're not sure where something goes, the Realism Consultation Thread is a safe bet.

#5: While this thread certainly can be IC, you will often see people posting OOCly. Not only is this OK, it's mod-sanctioned. Think of it as The Eternal for gun nuts.

#6: It's a running gag in this thread that if a person top-pages, they are expected to post an image of a gun. Preferably one that relates to the page number somehow.

The Dog
(Image)
There will be no, I repeat, NO gun control discussion in this thread, or so help me Raptor Jesus I will shoot this dog. If you want to whine about "teh ebil redneks wit teh scary bwack wifles" or "teh ebil gubernments what be wantin to tak mah freedom", you take that shit to General.

On the Subject of the AK-47

The AK-47 is not an acceptable answer

You want the short version? The "AK-47" was a prototype weapon used in Soviet military trials in 1946 and 1947. It was never used by actual combat troops, ever. The first AKs issued were the AK Types I - III. They lasted from 1947 to 1959. The weapon you think is the AK-47, is actually called the AKM, and it's a far superior weapon to the prototype, or the Types I-III.

For the finer details on the AK-47, AKs in general, a comprehensive list of AK types, and some good advice on what type of Kalashnikova to use, allow me to quote our resident AK nerd, Spreewerke;

Spreewerke wrote:
That said, there are a couple of things that aren't acceptable answers, unless you fit very specific criteria. The most obvious of these is that the 'AK-47' is not an acceptable answer. If you have a problem with that, feel free to talk to me about it. Why isn't that an acceptable answer, though? Spoiler time!

No, seriously, read this: The AK-47 was designed in 1946 and formally adopted by the Soviet military in 1949. There were four models used between 1947 and 1959: The AK-47 was the test and trials designation for the rifle: the earlier prototypes, made in 1946, were referred to as the AK-1 and AK-2. After the adoption of the rifle, it was designated simply as the "AK". However, due to three variants of the AK being made, it is more proper to refer to these variants as the "AK Type-#" rather than just "AK" as the three variants differed quite significantly from one another. Due to that, the term "AK" has more or less become a catch-all for just about all AK variants, and does not necessarily refer to one specific model. The Type-I, adopted in late 1948, featured an early, stamped receiver, but it was quickly (and I mean quickly) replaced by the Type-II AK in 1949. This featured a milled receiver, a stock boot, and some other small, yet somewhat significant changes. The Type-III is the most common "AK-47," and it is basically just a milled predecessor of the rifle you should be using. What rifle is that?

Enter the AKM.

The AKM is the modernized version of the Type-III assault rifle. It utilizes a stamped receiver, reinforced receiver cover, slanted muzzle brake, vented gas block, and a rear sight leaf showing distances of 100m to 1,000m among other things. In reality, it is only acceptably accurate out to 300m on a good day. The AKM is the most widespread AK variant in the world. Almost every foreign-made AK (Yugoslavian, Hungarian, Polish, etc) variant in the world is based off of the AKM. Why? It's more reliable and just as accurate as the original AKs, not to mention much cheaper to produce. It is the Kalashnikov rifle. They come in a variety of, well, variants, which include models with forward, wooden grips, underfolding MP40-style stocks, side-folding wire stocks, and, of course, fixed, wooden stocks. They fire the 7.62x39mm cartridge. Folding-stocked AKMs are designated as AKMS.

The AKMN is the most useful of the AKMs, however, as it utilizes the famous Russian optics rail on the receiver. This allows the user to attach a variety of slide-on optics that do not lose zero and, sometimes, co-witness or, most usually, sit above the iron sights so one may choose which sighting system to use. If I recommend any "old", AKM variant, it is most usually the AKMN. It is the most multi-purpose AKM variant there is, and that optics rail is wonderful. It can serve as a mount for red dot optics and magnified optics alike (night vision, too!).

Let's say you've advanced beyond the AKM, though, and are looking for some more "modern" AKs. This is where the AK-74 and its variants come into play. The AK-74 was adopted in 1974 and it was Russia's answer to the M16 family. Its 5.45x39mm round is kind of a "me, too!" round as they wished to copy the American 5.56NATO cartridge. However, in their drunken stupor, the Russians managed to make a much more effective round. The 5.45x39mm round is very unstable after coming in contact with any kind of obstruction. This limits its penetration quite a bit, but the tissue damage it inflicts is unparalleled. The AK-74 family really tears up soft targets.

Even more modern still is the AK-100-series of AKs. The AK-101 and AK-102 are 5.56x45mm NATO variants of the AK. They're basically a re-chambered AK-74M. The AK-103 and AK-104 are the new, modern 7.62x39mm variants of the AK. I, in all honesty, believe these are the most superior models of the AK family. Stick to the AK-74M, AK-101, or AK-103 for your full-sized AK rifles (or AK-107, AK-108, or AK-109 if you wish to utilize the BARS anti-recoil dual-piston assembly). For carbines, the AK-102, AK-104, and AK-105 are your answers. Shorter still is the AKS-74u. However, if you're looking for a more modern variant, the AK-12 is still undergoing its testing stages, but there is fair potential it will be adopted for use at some time in the near future. Though I discourage its use due to its lack of true production during 2012, within a few years it will probably be a perfectly acceptable answer: models are supposedly supposed to be imported in 2013 in semi-automatic form to the United States. So, I suppose you could either be a nation from 2012+ or a nation that is using an alternate history in which the AK-12 was adopted earlier. Either way, if you're using weapons from 2012 or onwards, it should be perfectly acceptable, and it is being offered in multiple calibers (5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 12 Gauge, and there is talk of 6.5 Grendel variants).

So, basically, what are you planning on doing with your military? Here's a list of actual "WE USE TEH AK-15 WIHT BULLETGLOCKS" models that are, well, acceptable for the listed roles in the AK family, and I've went ahead and separated them by general effective range.

Medium to Long Range/Designated Marksman Rifle
Romanian PSL: ten rounds, semi-automatic 7.62x54mmR
Yugoslavian M76: ten rounds, semi-automatic (or fully automatic if done correctly) 7.92x57mm IS (export versions of 7.62 NATO)
Israeli AR/ARM (Galil): twenty-five rounds, select-fire (safe, semi, full), 7.62x51mm NATO.
Finnish Rk 76/M76 (rifles were exported only): twenty rounds, semi-automatic, 7.62x51mm NATO.

Medium Range
Russian
Type-I (1948 to 1949) -- 7.62x39mm
Type-II (1949 to 1953) -- 7.62x39mm
Type-III (1953 to 1959) -- 7.62x39mm
AKM -- 7.62x39mm
AKMN -- 7.62x39mm
AKMS -- 7.62x39mm
AKMP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMLP -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSN -- 7.62x39mm
AKMSNP -- 7.62x39mm
AK-74 -- 5.45x39mm
AKS-74 -- 5.45x39mm
AK-74M -- 5.45x39mm
AK-101 -- 5.56x45mm
AK-103 -- 7.62x39mm
Finnish
Rk 62/M62 -- 7.62x39mm
Rk 71/M71 -- 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm NATO
Rk 76_/M76_ -- 7.62x39mm (5.56 NATO export versions)
Rk 95 -- 7.62x39mm
Hungarian
AMD-63 -- 7.62x39mm
AMD-65 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63F -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63D -- 7.62x39mm
AK-63MF -- 7.62x39mm
Israeli
AR/ARM (Galil) -- 5.56x45mm
Yugoslavian
M70 -- 7.62x39mm
M70A -- 7.62x39mm
M70A1 -- 7.62x39mm
M70B1 -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB2 -- 7.62x39mm
M70B1N -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB2N -- 7.62x39mm
M70AB3 -- 7.62x39mm
M90 -- 5.56x45mm
M90A -- 5.56x45mm
M21 -- 5.56x45mm
Polish
PmK (kbk) -- 7.62x39mm
Kbkg wz. 1960 -- 7.62x39mm
kbk -- 7.62x39mm
kbk wz. 1981 -- 5.45x39mm
kbk wz. 1988 -- 5.45x39mm
Beryl -- 5.56x45mm
Egyptian
Misr (AKM and AKMS) -- 7.62x39mm
Iraq
Tabuk DMR (semi-automatic RPK) -- 7.62x39mm
Chinese
Type-56 -- 7.62x39mm
Type-56-I -- 7.62x39mm
Type-56-II -- 7.62x39mm
QBZ-56C -- 7.62x39mm
Type-81 -- 7.62x39mm
Germany
MPi-K -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KS -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KM -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KMS-72 -- 7.62x39mm
MPi-KMS-74 -- 5.45x39mm
Korea
Type-58A -- 7.62x39mm
Type-58B -- 7.62x39mm
Type-68A -- 7.62x39mm
Type-68B -- 7.62x39mm
Type-88 -- 7.62x39mm
Romania
PM md. 63 -- 7.62x39mm
PM md. 90 -- 7.62x39mm
PA md. 86 -- 5.45x39mm

Short-range Weapons
AKS-74u -- 5.45x39mm
AK-102 -- 5.56x45mm
AK-104 -- 7.62x39mm
AK-105 -- 5.45x39mm
kbk wz. 1996 "Mini-Beryl" -- 5.56x45mm
PM md. 65 -- 7.62x39mm
M85 -- 5.56x45mm
M92 -- 7.62x39mm
SAR (Galil) -- 5.56x45mm
SLR-107CR (forget Bulgaria's military designation) -- 7.62x39mm
SLR-107UR (see above) -- 7.62x39mm

Now that you've decided which model it is that you're actually going to use, it's time to decide on a caliber and an optic. What's the best caliber? Well, I'll talk in terms of the assault rifles/carbines as the longer-range weapons are really a freedom of choice type of thing. So, we're basically down to 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, and 7.62x39mm. Let's discuss 5.45x39mm first, shall we? Rhetorical question.

5.45x39mm
Okay, so you've chosen the "me, too" cartridge. What can we expect? Well, the 5.45x39mm round is capable of penetrating some armored vests, but not at very long ranges at all. Let's just refer to it as standard ball FMJ, regardless of type, for simplicity here. You can make your own uber-cool loads for it later. Alright, so the 5.45x39mm round is designed with a small air cavity in the front. This makes the round rear-heavy and very unstable. Upon impacting a target, it begins to tumble almost immediately. The flesh wounds caused by this round are devastating. This is probably the most lethal round to choose for an AK if going against unarmed opponents in semi-open ground (see Afghanistan invasion). The 5.45x39mm extends the AK-74's (and derivatives) range from the standard AK's 300m to about 400m. It will get about 2.0MOA accuracy, so that means 8.0MOA at that outer limit of its range: well within the chest. This round is also very light recoiling and, with the proper muzzle brake, is therefore easily controllable. There are a few AK-74 variants utilizing a recoil-countering piston (BARS), but I did not list these variants above as they are, to my understanding, very much so specialist items. Going back to wound capabilities, please note that the 5.45x39mm round is not good for penetrating barriers.
Pros
Accurate (2.0MOA)
Longer effective range (400m)
Very easy to control
Devastating on flesh targets
Cons
Tumbles upon impact with obstacles (jungle warfare would be less effective)
Less barrier penetration

5.56x45mm NATO
Go read a book. No, seriously: there's thousands.

7.62x39mm
7.62x39mm is, in my opinion, the best round for the AK. The original M43 ammunition was lead-core FMJ through-and-through (or steel for AP). It is known for penetrating barriers and packing a good ol' .30-caliber slug in its casing. In 1967, the Yugoslavians created the M67 cartridge of 7.62x39mm. This is now the most widely used 7.62x39mm round. It features a hollowed nose cavity similar to the 5.45x39mm, but it isn't as large compared to the rest of the round. This lets it mushroom out a bit and yaw inside of flesh, but it still retains most of its barrier-penetrating capabilities. It's kind of a middle-ground cartridge, but its effective range is honestly only 300m. The recoil, while not horrible, is not preferable for sustained fully-automatic firing, but in bursts or semi-automatic fire, it should stay relatively on-target.
Pros
It's freaking 7.62x39mm
Penetrates barriers easier
Retains some flesh-destroying qualities
Most common AK round -- pretty much every single country in the world has some of it somewhere
Good-sized .30-caliber hole, even with no expansion
AK-103/AK-104 accuracy of 2.0MOA
Cons
More felt recoil
More noticeable muzzle climb
Pre-AK-100 series, accuracy of ~3.5MOA

Of course, there are some AKs that fire 6.8SPC, 7.62x51mm NATO, 7.92x57mm IS, 7.62x54mmR, et cetera, et cetera, but those are pretty much specialty weapons and, therefore, not truly "main military weapons" unless you are issuing battle rifle equivalents as standard-issue.

As for optics, unless you're wanting to issue a quasi-DMR in each squad (POSP or PSO is highly recommended) or perhaps an ACOG (or similar) on a Beryl/Krebs/TWI Dogleg-style receiver cover rail. As for standard infantry use, however, stick to red-dot optics or other no-magnification optics. These can be had via Russian Kobra, PK-A, PK-AS, 1P63 Obzor, anything else on this site or, if you're feeling Western and pig-doggish, you can utilize a quad-rail/gas tube rail/etc. and put a small red dot (like an AimPoint of some kind: EOTechs would be too tall) on that top rail. If it sits low enough, it should co-witness with the iron sights, giving you a back-up sighting system in the event your red dot optic is damaged/destroyed/dead/otherwise unusable.
So, yeah, you can say you use the AK-47, but unless you fall within that time frame of pre-AK production Russia, then fuck you.

Have a nice day.

General Advice and Tips

This thread has a pretty big population of very knowledgeable people. They are (for the most part) willing to help. The following is a loose collection of helpful resources on firearms, ammunition, and general tactics.

Courtesy of Puzikas;

With that, good people, I leave you to it. Remember; be nice, be respectful, be smart and keep an open mind. And don't worry; if you ever do something absolutely pants-on-head stupid, there's always the Mess Webley:

The metaphorical pistol handed to an Officer with which he can save himself the ignominy of having to resign his commission and leave the Mess with honour by doing the decent thing.
Traditionally stored in the third drawer down in the anteroom desk. See following for instructions of usage and general Mess etiquette:
Of course if you have been a total rotter and cad...
It's worth remembering that the Mess Webley will be of .455 calibre so do remember that if the Mess has recently been re-carpeted or painted, you might consider putting down some newspaper before doing the decent thing, otherwise you will leave your former fellow Mess members with the deuce of a bill which will probably dampen enthusiasm at your wake - alternatively take a bottle of whisky with you into the woods...

Dat OP. Ther'll be another time Corda, there always is.

Anyways, thanks for mentioning my Warship thread.

by **Fordorsia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:53 am

Fordorsia Mk.2 Grenade Launcher, not really best grenade launcher.

by **Kouralia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:54 am

Benomia wrote:That would have been the longest OP in history of ever NS ever.

Allow me to point you at Crystal Spires:

House Targaryen of Valyria wrote:
(Image)
The Dragonstone Isles
The Crownlands
Fifteen Years Ago

The People in the Lands of Westeros were enjoying their time in the long summer united under the rule of House Targaryen. A region that is known as the Seven Kingdoms, a land where the seasons can last for years without an end in sight. A dynasty of almost 300 years lasted and was unbroken with a strength that the lands to the east envied and craved. The Wall is an ancient structure that was erected to keep out a mysterious race of ice demons known as The Others, and is manned and protected by the order of warriors known as the Night's Watch. The Others have been spoken of in tales but for so long they have not been seen. So long that they were almost forgotten. Most living people almost think of them as mythical creatures. Non-existent and used by women and children in girlish tales of horror and compulsion. The once-honourable Night's Watch has been reduced to an army of thieves, traitors, and whoresons a fraction of the size it once was despite the prophecy that the Others are due to return soon on a day of the Longest Night on a Winter colder than any other. It was said that it will last forever if the Others should conquer Westeros. The Tale begins with a whisper, A little boy sat in the halls with his beautiful dark lilac eyes filled with the innocence and the curious wonder that a child had in his eyes as he held a book in the warmth of the summer. Silver hair fell like soft snow over his shoulders and seemed to catch the starlight.

"Tell me the story Father." the boy whispered with warmth and adoration as he looked to his father for wisdom. The people on the Isle of Dragonstone watched over this child with due affection for he was the prince of the realm, the Prince of the Isle of Dragonstone. With his heart filled with love, King Aerys, second of his name, pat the boy on his head as he began the read the tale to his son, a rarely spoken of human moment for the Dragon King, and a moment that father shared with son.

"Eight thousand years before our Ancestors made their Landing upon Westeros to conquer it, Darkness lay over the world, a terrible darkness which fell across Westeros and Essos during a great winter that lasted for many years. The Long Night it was called, and according to legend in the midst of this darkness a race of demons, called the Others emerged from the uttermost north, the polar regions of the Lands of Always Winter. Wielding razor-thin swords of ice, they raised the dead to fight the living, emerging with their army of the sleeping dead."

"Oh..." The boy cringed with fear as his father told the story with rapt attention. Aerys II Targaryen looked as regal dragons would, and did not show a fragment of fear on his face and the boy struggled to regain his composure.

" The Children of the Forest and their allies, the First Men, fought valiantly against them, but were driven southwards by their advance. Hope that we would be able to defeat these terrible beasts of the North was fading, and the life of the human race became one that was ruled by uncertainty and fear. It was in these fell times that our last Hero stood to fight the darkness. The Long Night lasted a generation and laid waste to much of the world through famine and terror, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it." The King said to his son who smiled in happiness as he desired to hear the part of heroes overcoming the darkness like any child would.

"To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, he began to prepare his blade. He did so in tears, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade. He worked for a hundred days and a hundred nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his beloved wife, and with a heavy heart he asked her to bare her chest to finish the forging. He drove his sword into her heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, created Lightbringer."

"Why did he kill the woman he loved most in the world father?" The boy asked as he was sad for Azor Ahai and he did not like that he had to do something so terrible to gain such power. Something so morally inconceivable could not be understood by the innocent heart of the prince.

"Sometimes, my son, a hero must give up everything he loves in the world to be able to save what others treasure the most. The power that the Hero gains does not come without a heavy price." The King said as he thought of his own reign. He knew what the Game of Thrones meant and what kind of horrors he had to do as a King and Protector of all the realms. He continued the story as his son seemed to listen with careful attention. "And so Azor Ahai, led the war against the Others wielding his sword of fire, Lightbringer, driving the Others back. Victory was given to us over the Northlands, but we live in fear of the Others, and their inevitable return. The steps we took were numerous to ensure that the people of Westeros would never be caught offguard by an invasion from the North again. Far in the Lands of Winterfell, The Wall was raised by House Stark."

"The Noble Lord Stark of Winterfell?" the Prince asked with a curious look.

"The very same, and he built an imposing structure of solid ice and magic, stretching one hundred leagues from the Gorge in the east to the Shivering Sea in the west, cutting off the Lands of Always Winter from the remainder of Westeros. It was in Winterfell that the strongest army called the Night's Watch was established to stand watch on the Wall and protect the people from the threat that lay to the north, standing vigilant for the one day when the terrible wrath of the Others would rise once more."

The Dragonstone Isles
The Crownlands
Ten Years Ago

The Silver haired prince sat in the cloisters as he read his books alone as the other boys went out to play and he seemed to be almost sad and lonely as he sat alone reading obsessively. Many said it was because he was born in grief after the tragedy of Summerhall. After Aegon fifth of his name defeated what he believed was the last of the Blackfyres, he heard a prophecy from a woods witch that their line would bear the Prince That Was Promised to defeat the Others. Aegon therefore arranged the marriage of his grandchildren Aerys and Rhaella denying them a chance to marry for love, and instead allowed his children to marry for love. His daughter Rhaelle married into House Baratheon. His son Duncan the Small, Prince of Dragonflies, "cast aside a crown" for Jenny of Oldstones, leading in some way led to the Tragedy of Summerhall, where Aegon V and both Duncans lost their lives in 259. Aegon's sickly son Jaehaerys II reigned for a few years before dying in 262 and was succeeded by his eldest son Aerys the second of his name to serve as King of the Seven Kingdoms Lord of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men. The Silver Prince that Aerys had with his loveless marriage to Rhaella was born In 259AL they called him Rhaegar and he was said to be "born in blood and grief" the day of the blaze of Summerhall and was believed to be the Prince that was Promised.

Of course this was not what the other people had seen. The Melancholic bookworm Rhaegar was often mocked and teased, said to love books more than he loved people themselves. It didn't matter the subject, Rhaegar was infatuated with tales and stories and continued to read day and night without end as he lovingly memorized many of the tales with his very good memory. The Prince of Dragonstone was indeed bookish to a fault. He was reading so early that men said Queen Rhaella must have swallowed some books and a candle whilst he was in her womb. Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children and instead read day in and day out. The maesters were awed by his wits as he spoke with them of tales and stories that they faintly remembered, but his father’s knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again. Baelor the mad Targaryen whose faith went so far that he became reclusive and insanely locked away his sisters in a cell so he would not be tempted to lust.

Rhaegar was instead gentle and tender as he held a book and read of the story his father once told him when he was naught but a little boy. He took the ancient books of Asshai from over five thousand years ago and looked at the Prophecy himself which foretold the return of the Others and also of Azor Ahai, who would be reborn to lead the fight as "The Prince that was Promised" to challenge the Others. This would occur after a long summer when an evil, cold darkness descends upon the world. It is said that The Prince that was Promised, wielding Lightbringer once again, will stand against the Others and if he fails, the world fails with him.

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

-The Prophecy of the Prince that was Promised

As Rhaegar read, he dropped the book to the floor he rushed to the Maesters attempting to get a word with the elders to ask about Azor Ahai.

"What do you know about the rebirth of Azor Ahai, Hero of Westeros, good Maester?" The boy asked politely, and it gave the Maester a warm feeling of affection toward the boy for his love of knowledge.

"Azor Ahai among the people of the Red Religion is said to be reborn amidst smoke and salt wielding the flaming sword Lightbringer to defend the world from R'hllor's nemesis, the Other." the maester said as he looked at the child with a strange glance. "Why? Are you studying comparative religion now, young Prince?"

"The Summer has lasted longer than many years and now...it has been getting colder and colder. Maester, the isle of Dragonstone where I was born is, as I read in the book of Geology, a volcanic island, thus providing both smoke from the mountainous volcano and also has salt from the sea. Is not this prophecy describing the Isle of Dragonstone?" Rhaegar asked as he looked carefully at the Maester who frowned as he looked at the boy.

"It is similar to the Prophecy, yes." The Maester said as he looked at the boy whose fear seemed to build. This did not comfort him.

"I do not know where the Lightbringer is. How will one be able to find it? How will could one be able to drive back the Others without the Lightbringer?" Rhaegar asked with a terrified look.

"I do not know young prince, but it is best not to dwell on such idle things such as those of the Red Faith of R'hllor." The Maester said as he put out a candle.

The next morning the boy suddenly appeared early in the yard as the knights were donning their steel. He walked up to Ser Aston Cleary, the master-at-arms, and said, "I will require a sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior."

"Get a load of this boys! The Sour one wishes to be a Knight." the Knight of the King's Guard said as he looked at the boy. "Do you even know the first thing about being a Knight?"

"Knights are supposed to be brave, courageous, honorable, true to their word, and loyal to their feudal overlord, and to defend their faith." He said with a determined voice.

"Well you certainly know how to speak the part, but let's see what you know about the practical application. Stand, Rhaegar." the Knight said as he passed Rhaegar a wooden sword. The boy buckled under its weight and the other Knights laughed as he stood determined and held it with his power in his hands.

"Strike me." the Knight said as the Master of Arms watched and the boy shouted and attempted to strike at the Knight despite barely being able to stand with the wooden sword in his hands. He swung and swung and missed as the Knights jeered and laughed and then the master at arms approached the boy with a gentle motion.

"Hold the blade like this, and tightly grasp it like you wring water out of a handkerchief and with your blade facing up at the head of your enemy, strike with all your might." He said as Rhaegar nodded and followed the motions and with a faster and fiercer stance the boy fought with his every will.

"Strike me!" The knight said as he blocked the boy's blows and still his fierce determination shone through. "STRIKE ME!" he shouted as the boy finally with a small stroke, hit the knight's hand and with a proud clapping the other knights nodded and cheered in approval.

"I shall take you as my Squire, Prince of Dragonstone, and I shall teach you martial prowess if it is your true desire to be a warrior." The master at arms said as he looked at Rhaegar with a smile. "Do you accept this training and the blessing of the Seven?"

"Yes." he said and from that moment he trained fiercely and with every force of his mind in blade, lance and bow. With every effort he trained hard with fierce marital prowess. The boy learned to fight as heavy cavalry, wearing plate armor and fighting from horseback with lance, sword, and shield. He chose a horse, and owned two: a fierce warhorse and a milder horse for daily riding.

King's Landing
The Crownlands
Present Day

A silver haired warrior bowed before the Septon wearing shifts of undyed wool. He had already sit a night's vigil at a sept, before the figure of the Warrior, where he lay his sword before the figure, and his armor had been piled at its base. He then walked barefoot from the sept to the location where a Septon waited. A place in the summer's sun to prove his humble heart and with a nod he was anointed with seven oils. The Septon spoke with a solemn voice, but the people around him were joyful as he proudly knelt before them. Raising a sword the Septon gave a touch on the right shoulder with the blade.

"Rhaegar Targaryen, first of your name, In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave." The sword moved from his right shoulder to his left. "In the name of the Father I charge you to be just." it was moved to the Right shoulder once more. "In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent." The left. "In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women" then to the right "In the name of the Smith I charge you to tame your heart and craft it with honor, and sharpen your tongue so that your words may cut deeper than any sword." Then to the Left. "In the name of the Crone I charge you to seek the wisdom to act with righteousness and goodness." Then finally to the Right "In the name of the Stranger I charge you to face uncertainty and death with pride and courage."

Raising the sword to the light the Septon spoke to the young warrior now with a happy expression. "Rise Ser Rhaegar, Knight of House Targaryen." He said as he sheathed the blade and then Rhaegar put it on his swordbelt and the smallfolk and people cheered as he raised his silvery blade to the sky and cheers were given to the boy who was now a knight. He returned to the sept and emerged fully decked in armor displaying a coat-of-arms on his shield, the three headed dragon of the Targaryens, and a red surcoat his family arm, a sword of Valyrian steel. A large crest of the dragon was on his helm which he held in his hand as his jeweled armor gleamed in the sunlight, studded with rubies and beautiful pattern of the three headed dragon. As he stood in the sunlight he took his first breaths as a knight, and closed his eyes as he began to contemplate what he was meant to do. He would gather squires who would stand by him to act against the darkness of the coming night. With a summons he released a raven to all houses in the realm of Westeros, making a request in the name of the smallfolk and all those who wished to live without fear, but first he would have to gain their respect. He would have to gain their trust as the times had deeply changed since those innocent days where he slept in his bed dreaming of the Dragons in the sky which would light the night and protect him in his sleep. The world had changed, and in the year 276AL it all began to unravel as that night as Rhaegar smiled with hope at the new world he was sworn now to protect, the Lord of Duskendale of House Darklyn began the first act that would shake House Targaryen and would lead to the rift that would perhaps redefine the Seven Kingdoms.

(Image)

Now to begin with, this Roleplay will take place in the world of Westeros. However, it will not be on any timeline from the show Game of Thrones and it will not follow the whole events of A Song of Ice and Fire. It will be an Alternate Universe and there will be the same families ruling the same regions, with the same Cultures but alternate storylines and alternate characters, created by the RPers who sign up. It is emphasized that this will be a Character-focused roleplay, and there will be expectations of the players to be familiar with the background material and the OP before posting anything in the IC, and there also expectations that your characters if they are canonical, they should be played faithfully to the Spirit of the material, and if they are your own characters, they must be fully developed.

The Following are brief descriptions of the Main Houses in Westeros and Let it be known there are several Vassals, Noble, and other Houses that also exist in Westeros, and they are also available for use, if it is not up and you are not sure about using them, please do not hestitate to telegram me.

And here is the Map and another which also includes Essos

Here are the families RPers would get to choose from and the lands they would own:

House Martell of Dorne

The ruling house of the desert land of Dorne. They are mixed with the Rhoynar race, which invaded Dorne under the command of the Warrior-Queen Nymeria. They were the only kingdom of the seven to resist conquest by the Targaryens, instead joining the realm via dynastic marriage; in the meanwhile, there were a number of wars between Dorne and the Reach, and the distrust between House Martell and House Tyrell lasts to this day. Their seat is in Sunspear and they can muster about 25,000 men into battle, but have no Navy. They are lightly armored as they are desert folk. Their sigil is the sun and spear, and their motto is "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" which comes from their very proud and courtly culture.

House Tyrell of the Reach

The Lords of the Reach from their flowery seat at Highgarden. The Tyrells are a rich and powerful house, its wealth is only surpassed among the Great Houses by House Lannister. The Reach is the largest of the six southern kingdoms thus the Tyrells can field the greatest armies with 100, 000 men. They possess a fleet of 200 ships with 100 oars or more, matching the Royal Navy. Their sigil is a golden rose and their motto is "Growing Strong" which reflect their ancient seat of rule and the heart of chivalry in the Seven Kingdoms.

House Baratheon of the Stormlands

A house with a tradition of being aggressive, they rule the stormy eastern coast. They have been recently given different treatment by King Aerys II Targaryen. The impregnable castle Storm's End is their seat. The Baratheon sigil is a black stag. They are the youngest of the Great Houses, and descended from the early Targaryens. They command an army of 30,000 men with no navy but possess very strong castles that are almost impregnable. Their motto "Ours is the Fury" reflects their strong and rebellious nature.

House Lannister of the Westerlands

The Lannisters are the richest house in Westeros. They control the Westerlands, with its hills and rich gold mines, and claim to descend from Lann the Clever, who is said to have stolen sunlight for his hair. The Lannisters are powerful and controlling, and completely merciless to those they view as weak. They can field about 50,000 men and own no more than a handful of galleys as a Navy, but their wealth is their true power as they can buy sellswords and new equipment at a moment's notice. Their sigil is a golden lion. Their motto "Hear me Roar" is a reflection of the bold personality that is prized in all Lannisters.

House Stark of the North

The house ruling the North, the largest but least populated territory of the Seven Kingdoms and the lands most vulnerable to Westeros' long winters that last for years at a time. They are a grim house of iron will and devotion to honor, holding to the old laws and customs of the First Men. They claim to descend from Brandon the Builder, who built the great Wall that seals the realm away from the far north. Their sigil is the direwolf, a large species of wolf that is no longer seen below the Wall. Unlike other houses, their words are not a boast or declaration, but a warning, "Winter is Coming." They can field an army of 45,000 men but possess no navy.

House Tully of the Riverlands

The Lords of the Riverlands, House Tully rule from their fortress of Riverrun they can field an army of 45,000 men and some Houses maintain ships to patrol the rivers which gives them a green water navy that is often unmatched. Unlike many Great Houses they never ruled as kings, but held Riverrun for a thousand years as vassals of those who did. Their position in Central Westeros has meant they have had to call for allies in all the realms for any conflict and are therefore the most neutral house in the realms preferring not to be the center of conflict. Their members tend to have fiery red hair and their sigil is a leaping silver trout their motto is "Family, Duty, Honor."

House Arryn of the Vale

Lords of Mountain and Vale, their seat, the Eyrie, is built at the top of a mountaintop so steep that (primitive) elevators are used to ascend to it. They have many other holdings, including their winter castle at the Gates of the Moon. Both of these fortifications sit astride the Giant's Lance, the tallest mountain in the Vale, and the Eyrie is considered impregnable. Their line dates back to the old Andal peoples that invaded Westeros. Usually marrying other Andal nobles, House Arryn to this day has the purest line of Andal nobility and they have their Motto which is "As High as Honor" which reflects their strong noble manner. They command an army of 45 000 men with no navy except for some galleys at Gulltown. Their sigil is a moon and falcon.

House Greyjoy of the Iron Islands

The rulers of the Ironmen, they are a warlike seafaring culture of the Iron Islands. The Greyjoys used to make their living by raiding mainland Westeros and are actually proud of raping the women of their victims. As their house words show, they take pride in the fact that they perform no honest labor of their own, preferring to steal from others instead. They do not consider themselves members of the Seven Kingdoms, and will rise up at the first given opportunity. Their seat is at Pyke and their sigil a golden kraken. Their House Words refer to their belief that it is better to take than to build. The power of the Greyjoys is their blue water Navy of 500 longships and a handful that dips more than 100 oars and possess and army of 20 000 men.

Now the Houses are only as "Full" as the Characters in it! So you will have to fill out the Dreaded Application.

Code: Select all
[b][i]The House APP. [/i][/b] [b]The Name of the House:[/b] [b]Level of Familiarity with Chosen House:[/b] [b]Commitment to Playing House:[/b] [b]Second Choice if you Cannot Play This House:[/b] [b]Would you be willing to be a Vassal of a House[/b] [b][i]The Character APP. [/i][/b] [b]Name:[/b] [b]Gender:[/b] [b]Age:[/b] [b]House:[/b] [b]Appearance: ( I.E Height, Weight, Hair, Eyes, Skin, Posture, and demeanor)[/b] [b]Biography: (Heredity,Social Class, Occupation, Level of Education, Home life)[/b] [b]Religion:[/b] [b]Is your Character Magically Gifted?[/b] [b]Will They be Armed?[/b] [i]if yes...[/i] [i][b]Main Weapon[/b][/i] [i][b]Offhand Weapon[/b][/i] [i][b]Armor[/b][/i] [b]Will They have a Guard Attending?[/b] [i]if yes...[/i] [i][b]Main Weapon[/b][/i] [i][b]Offhand Weapon[/b][/i] [i][b]Armor[/b][/i] [i][b]OOC Information:[/b][/i] [b]Have you Read A Song of Ice and Fire:[/b] Yes/No [b]Have you seen the Television Show Game of Thrones:[/b] Yes/No [b]How familiar would you say you are with the Material?:[/b] [b]How High Would you Rate your ability to write full Content loaded posts? (Note: I will review your posts to Check Accuracy): [/b] [b]How would you rate your technical writing skill? (Note: I will review your posts to Check Accuracy):[/b]

Good, you've made it this far! I have given you a cookie, and hope to get a fun and fulfilling RP!

Reminder: As OP I reserve the right to reject applications on grounds of lack of content, skill, and/or familiarity with the material you're attempting to play, or for just not being cooperative and not playing well with others. I also reserve the right to, refuse God modding and to question merit of actions deemed inappropriate to the RP and I will of course, use this OOC to generally check with the players and such. You will find that I am actually, for all the odd rules reasonable and favor 'Open World' and 'Open Ended' Roleplays which means this roleplay can just about go anywhere!

And ah, yes spoiler warnings for anyone who shall play. At the moment nothing should be too new!

Also the following Spots are Open

House Baratheon
House Arryn
House Tully

Due to the Inactivity of the players who apped, they are reopened.

IC THREAD HO!

by **Crookfur** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:54 am

Kouralia wrote:
Crookfur wrote:150 yars of Crookfur smalls history in 2 images:

from this

http://www.drmeatballs.com/crookfur/ima ... lfield.png

To this:

http://www.drmeatballs.com/crookfur/images/SX23A2.png

Is that a sexy, sexy SUSAT I see there?

In thoery it shoudl actually be a slightly more modern scope but yeah its a blatant SUSAT rip. i suppose if teh nubs want a a default scope it might aswell be a sexy one.

by **Puzikas** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:55 am

Cordas is very nice.
I kinda just took the K.I.S.S approach. For the most part.

by **Bajireyn** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:55 am

Fordorsia wrote:Fordorsia Mk.2 Grenade Launcher, not really best grenade launcher.

(Image)

Even if its not the best, it still looks damn good!

EDIT: The Mk.7 thread is finally gone. Time to move on comrades.

by **Purpelia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:56 am

It feels sort of strange to have both threads going at the same time. Sort of icky. Like the feeling you get when no one is around and you covertly tab over to that other tab...

by **Ea90** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:56 am

Woohoo! First Page!

by **Benomia** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:56 am

Purpelia wrote:It feels sort of strange to have both threads going at the same time. Sort of icky. Like the feeling you get when no one is around and you covertly tab over to that other tab...

Old thread is locked.

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Main Military Weapon of your Country: Pattern VIII (Read OP)

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