NationStates

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:56 pm**

The UEG-Space Command wrote:*snip*

Correct, however it is heavily flawed, for example all many living things, humans included are animals, it is backwards to state otherwise. Then there is the fact that it is not logical to list something as non sentient when it shows all signs of being sentient, I am more than sure there would be multiple species that would not count humans as being sentient, and thus, anthros if you call them such, should be noted as being sentient, as to avoid hypocrisy, though it would only count if you wish to stay on a high note, so this could be invalid, in that case then, it could be a sign of arrogance from the culture which does not recognizes their sentience. Either way, since both anthros and humans are animals, your animal rights case is null on the ground of the term animal.

Hm, I sense inconsistency, slight, but it should be checked upon. Either way you may choose to discuss it further, and hopefully I will check myself by then for a bug.

You appear to misunderstand premise 3. This does not state that creatures regarded as sentient are not also regarded as animals, rather it states that there are special laws that apply to sentients. Dyelli Beybi is not a human majority state, but we see no need to alter our legislation to be inclusive towards 'anthros'. 'Hypocrisy' and 'forward thinking' are both entirely irrelevant in logic. These creatures may or may not be sentient, but until such time as they are deemed to be so by the legislature, as far as the law is concerned, they are not.

This legalistic attitude serves the state well as it clearly establishes which creatures are to be treated in which manner. For instance, an animal rights activist cannot claim that a farmer who shoots a lion has committed murder as the lion is not listed as a sentient.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:59 pm**

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
Gotta say... Sentient Stars (I kid you not... Who used those...HM...)

Reproductive? Just ask the Mice Morph's then.

And exactly how many of these supposedly sentient "Mice Morphs" are there, allegedly?

Nonwithstanding the ludicrous nature of a claim to sentience by a being with a brain the size of a walnut.

Last we checked... 8 Billion Living on... World ship's they designed and floated away. Vuirl buggers. Not sure how many now, But we regrettably had to ask them to leave Biopian space because they muptily exponentially. So... Let's see 8 Billion 10 year's ago... Somewhere in the High trillion's probably.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:00 pm**

Dyelli Beybi wrote:
The UEG-Space Command wrote:*snip*

Correct, however it is heavily flawed, for example all many living things, humans included are animals, it is backwards to state otherwise. Then there is the fact that it is not logical to list something as non sentient when it shows all signs of being sentient, I am more than sure there would be multiple species that would not count humans as being sentient, and thus, anthros if you call them such, should be noted as being sentient, as to avoid hypocrisy, though it would only count if you wish to stay on a high note, so this could be invalid, in that case then, it could be a sign of arrogance from the culture which does not recognizes their sentience. Either way, since both anthros and humans are animals, your animal rights case is null on the ground of the term animal.

Hm, I sense inconsistency, slight, but it should be checked upon. Either way you may choose to discuss it further, and hopefully I will check myself by then for a bug.

You appear to misunderstand premise 3. This does not state that creatures regarded as sentient are not also regarded as animals, rather it states that there are special laws that apply to sentients. Dyelli Beybi is not a human majority state, but we see no need to alter our legislation to be inclusive towards 'anthros'. 'Hypocrisy' and 'forward thinking' are both entirely irrelevant in logic. These creatures may or may not be sentient, but until such time as they are deemed to be so by the legislature, as far as the law is concerned, they are not.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:02 pm**

Definition for Anthropomorphic/Anthro: Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

Meaning Anything that acts human [Furries, inanimate objects, ETC] can be there for considered Sentient beings.

Also, Humans ARE considered Animals by even Darwin's standards. Humans are Mammalia, Mammalia is a branch in the animal kingdom.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:02 pm**

Ja and there are 450,908,732,108,543,000,000,000 Humans on the moon. Of Mercury.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:03 pm**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
G-Tech Corporation wrote:
And exactly how many of these supposedly sentient "Mice Morphs" are there, allegedly?

Nonwithstanding the ludicrous nature of a claim to sentience by a being with a brain the size of a walnut.

Last we checked... 8 Billion Living on... World ship's they designed and floated away. Vuirl buggers. Not sure how many now, But we regrettably had to ask them to leave Biopian space because they muptily exponentially. So... Let's see 8 Billion 10 year's ago... Somewhere in the High trillion's probably.

In that case merely the segment of Humanity within the Milky Way heavily outnumbers these.... Mice Morphs.... and judging merely on reproductive success Humanity remains easily superior.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:09 pm**

The UEG-Space Command wrote:
At first it lacked any form of valid reasoning, a key component of logic. In any sense, they are sentient whether or not you say they are, it is not a matter of opinion but of fact, as long as they are treated sentient, then it is okay, but you are watched by my makers. I have yet to finish my daily check, so I may or may not be running on full capacity, or reasoning, until then I will leave my makers, to discuss further.

There is no such thing as a 'fact'. Particularly not in a matter so subjective as sentience.

You also appear to misunderstand logic. All premises in the argument are true and the conclusion has been reached in a logical manner, therefore the conclusion is logical. We have not stated that 'anthros' are not sentient. We have stated that anthros are not listed as sentient. Whether they are or are not is irrelevant.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:12 pm**

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
Last we checked... 8 Billion Living on... World ship's they designed and floated away. Vuirl buggers. Not sure how many now, But we regrettably had to ask them to leave Biopian space because they muptily exponentially. So... Let's see 8 Billion 10 year's ago... Somewhere in the High trillion's probably.

In that case merely the segment of Humanity within the Milky Way heavily outnumbers these.... Mice Morphs.... and judging merely on reproductive success Humanity remains easily superior.

That's just a rough estimate, It's possibly closer to 300 times that... Though who knows. Probably more.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:13 pm**

Dyelli Beybi wrote:
The UEG-Space Command wrote:
At first it lacked any form of valid reasoning, a key component of logic. In any sense, they are sentient whether or not you say they are, it is not a matter of opinion but of fact, as long as they are treated sentient, then it is okay, but you are watched by my makers. I have yet to finish my daily check, so I may or may not be running on full capacity, or reasoning, until then I will leave my makers, to discuss further.

There is no such thing as a 'fact'. Particularly not in a matter so subjective as sentience.

You also appear to misunderstand logic. All premises in the argument are true and the conclusion has been reached in a logical manner, therefore the conclusion is logical. We have not stated that 'anthros' are not sentient. We have stated that anthros are not listed as sentient. Whether they are or are not is irrelevant.

It appears that the word listed was not catched, these incidents happen.

Though you are wrong, there are facts, and there are opinions. But facts can be disproven with enough evidence.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:17 pm**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
G-Tech Corporation wrote:
In that case merely the segment of Humanity within the Milky Way heavily outnumbers these.... Mice Morphs.... and judging merely on reproductive success Humanity remains easily superior.

That's just a rough estimate, It's possibly closer to 300 times that... Though who knows. Probably more.

In which case Humanity still heavily outnumbers these creatures, and my conclusion remains as previously stated.

Additionally, seeing as I, and my compatriots, had never heard of sentient nice until you mentioned them, it seems doubtful that they could even in the furthest reaches of imagination be more ubiquitous than Man.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:19 pm**

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
That's just a rough estimate, It's possibly closer to 300 times that... Though who knows. Probably more.

In which case Humanity still heavily outnumbers these creatures, and my conclusion remains as previously stated.

Additionally, seeing as I, and my compatriots, had never heard of sentient nice until you mentioned them, it seems doubtful that they could even in the furthest reaches of imagination be more ubiquitous than Man.

Must be on the Poor side of the Galaxy then. Most We have met have been from the... "North" Of the galactic bulge.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:30 pm**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
That's just a rough estimate, It's possibly closer to 300 times that... Though who knows. Probably more.

You simply multiply your estimates by 300?

Please, tell us more about how we're unreasonable.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:32 pm**

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
That's just a rough estimate, It's possibly closer to 300 times that... Though who knows. Probably more.

You simply multiply your estimates by 300?

Please, tell us more about how we're unreasonable.

There not mine. Just saying have you seen mice? Give em 10 years and unlimited space and see just how many of the bugger's you get.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:54 pm**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
You simply multiply your estimates by 300?

Please, tell us more about how we're unreasonable.

There not mine. Just saying have you seen mice? Give em 10 years and unlimited space and see just how many of the bugger's you get.

OK lets end this... "Die Oranje-Vrystaat" has 12 million and spend 15% on defense. "Yes Im Biop" has 2.082 billion and spend 20% on defense. Now can we get back to the topic?

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:45 pm**

Tyriece wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
There not mine. Just saying have you seen mice? Give em 10 years and unlimited space and see just how many of the bugger's you get.

OK lets end this... "Die Oranje-Vrystaat" has 12 million and spend 15% on defense. "Yes Im Biop" has 2.082 billion and spend 20% on defense. Now can we get back to the topic?

Which has what to do with Mice?

Wait...Only 20? ...What happened...

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:50 pm**

Anthros? Depends what they're useful for. The stronger ones that make good laborers are kept as slaves... the ones with the tastiest meat are bred for food... the species with the most attractive females tend to also wind up on the slave market frequently. But exterminating them? That'd be stupid... obviously they have their uses.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:03 pm**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
Tyriece wrote:
OK lets end this... "Die Oranje-Vrystaat" has 12 million and spend 15% on defense. "Yes Im Biop" has 2.082 billion and spend 20% on defense. Now can we get back to the topic?

Which has what to do with Mice?

Wait...Only 20? ...What happened...

Nothing to do with mice, but you guys have been spamming this tread saying, "I R stronger/ NO me R stronger"

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:07 pm**

Tyriece wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
Which has what to do with Mice?

Wait...Only 20? ...What happened...

Nothing to do with mice, but you guys have been spamming this tread saying, "I R stronger/ NO me R stronger"

You used Absolution amiright?

Absolution doesn't do FT.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:41 pm**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
There not mine. Just saying have you seen mice? Give em 10 years and unlimited space and see just how many of the bugger's you get.

No offense meant, but my big question is this:
How the heck does being at one point a rodent with a life expectancy of...3 years, lets assume, in the wild, translate to being a roughly Human-sized mammal with sentience and a comparable life expectancy (or even just 40 to 50 years)? How the hell would a race that reproduces so fast (10 children a litter?!), and still be similar to Humans in nature work out? If ever I've heard of the idea of the "Biological Space Plague", no doubt it would be expressed with Mice Morphs. Just imagine if they united into a cohesive empire (impossible as that would be without a hive mind or VERY strict pheremone-based instinctive hierarchy) and began expanding a la Orks?

Whaddya know. Mice Morphs is NationStates FT (Whatever FT is) Waaaaagh...

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:42 pm**

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Tyriece wrote:
Nothing to do with mice, but you guys have been spamming this tread saying, "I R stronger/ NO me R stronger"

You used Absolution amiright?

Absolution doesn't do FT.

No. He used the Spending tab on my page

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:27 pm**

Dyelli Beybi wrote:
OMGeverynameistaken wrote:
(Image)
(Image)

that is hillarious!

In Dyelli Beybi furries have not been approved by the scientific community as sentient beings. As such, if they arrive in a diplomatic capacity they are given the respect deserving of the representatives of foreign realms. Otherwise things are a little more complex... basically their treatment is governed by animal rights legislation rather than the usual legal system.

Dyelli Beybi also has no problem with selling weapons to anyone trying to fight the 'anthro scourge', although we won't actually join in the fighting due to our general apathy towards the barbaric world outside of Dyellian borders.

This might lead to some interesting RPs and some rather confused Anthroleporidaerians if some try to visit without diplomatic status.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:49 pm**

Were they to enter Siloka they would be either executed on sight or placed in labor camps to work until death. They are not human so human rights do not apply to them. Not that Siloka worries about things like human rights.

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:01 am**

Does not exist, nor we recognize it. Technically the Caliphate doesn't recognized any form of anthropomorphic beings. Allah has designed animals as animals, not animals as humans. Saying otherwise could be considered as a low-scaled blasphemy, and sentenced to public service. Until now there are no furries exist nor recognized by the Government.

Nevertheless, if someday, somehow, there's a careless furry decided to take a vacation in our nation, the action that Caliphate would likely to do is to capture it, forced it to confess in the society that it's a miracle sent by Allah to warn the sinful humans, then tighten the borders to avoid any of those furries arrive again. The second, third, fourth, and so-on furries would likely be kidnapped, burned and its ashes buried so none of our faithful people will realize that blasphemy.

OoC: My nation doesn't recognize non-human nations, nor its people.

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:24 am**

While beastmen are according to law not seen as different from humans or any other non-humans so are they still seen as somewhat inferior by the majority of the population even if views of them have gotten better recently.

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:13 am**

Banned and considered degeneracy. People acting like them in any matter will be sent to a purification center and reeducated. If reeducation fails, they will spend the rest of their days in a mental institution.

NationStates

How are Anthro's (Furries) treated in your nation?