Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

You fail to fix the block coefficient. It's currently reading way off the scale, and you lack 1.7 million tons of displacement.

I Was Talking About The Guns

And with the second fix you still lack 488 thousand tons.
EDIT: I swapped Bismarck's Cb for HMS Dreadnought's, since this is not doing 30 knots.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Juel Class Patrol Vessel
Type: Offshore patrol vessel
Displacement: 1,900 tonnes
Length: 90 metres
Beam: 14 metres
Draft: 3.8 metres
Propulsion: 2x nuclear reactor
Speed: 53 knots
Range: Restricted only by food
Endurance: as long as food lasts
Boats and landing craft carried: 2 x
Complement: 44 +
Sensors and
processing systems: Fire Control:Electro Optical
Armament: 1 x 76 mm cannon
2x 20 mm cannons
1x 20 mm CIWS
Mountings for heavy MGs & GPMGs
Aircraft carried: 1x helicopter
Aviation facilities: hangar for helicopter
(Image)

Welcome back, what do you intend to do with this vessel?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Welcome back, what do you intend to do with this vessel?

Its Main Purpose Is To Protect Coasts While The Navy Is Away, And To Be Sold On The JW Market.

Well, for starters, the primary target of any coastal patroller nowadays are the likes of spy trawlers, the international pirate/smuggler, and the occasional submarine. For these types of missions a speed overmatch of more than 30-40 knots is pretty much wholly unnecessary and unneeded. If your boat can do 40 knots like the LCS you will be able to accomplish all these things and without the hassle of a gigantic engine system or very exotic planform arrangements like multihulls. As is, you have stuck two nuclear reactors on a coastal patroller weighing less than 2000 tons and doing 53 knots. Firstly, a ship below 8000 tons is pretty much barely able to support one reactor, never mind two, secondly, 53 knots is enough to match some air-cushion vessels, which is an really unneeded ability when you can launch your air power against these types of targets.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Wrt main turrets - The Bismarck turrets were simply held in by gravity. She's on the bottom without them because she capsized when she was scuttled. The removal of the aft, D, or no. 4 turret was also done on the Iowa-class battleships when they were modernized during the Vietnam War. The biggest structural concern is ballast, and for that you'd simply place 1500 tons of armor steel, depleted uranium, tungsten, or even concrete where the turret was. Then you plate over the decks and install your hangar there, with the helipad behind it.
As for 15cm guns - I did scrap two of 'em. Probably will replace the other four with 15.5cm howitzers in single mounts. Or maybe AK130s. Iunno.

Uno, duos, tres... where is quartre?
15 cm single-purpose guns and upwards in addition to a 10.5 cm battery for AA is probably the shittiest arrangement after we developed a light-weight, quick-firing dual purpose gun.
Besides, your current arrangement threw up too little weight too slow to deal with the hordes of WWII attack aircraft that came after the German surface units, and now we got Intruders, and four Phalanxes bolted in at awkward places ain't gonna solve anything.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Uno, duos, tres... where is quartre?
15 cm single-purpose guns and upwards in addition to a 10.5 cm battery for AA is probably the shittiest arrangement after we developed a light-weight, quick-firing dual purpose gun.
Besides, your current arrangement threw up too little weight too slow to deal with the hordes of WWII attack aircraft that came after the German surface units, and now we got Intruders.

Hm... I could've sworn the Iowa had four main turrets. I was wrong, then. Doesn't change the fact that Bismarck's turrets just sat in their mounts and could be removed by lifting them out.

But anyway, as I said, it's only a hypothetical refit that was never supposed to make sense. Would replacing the 105mm FLaK with 57mm autocannons make sense or no?

Toss the 15 cm's, the 10.5 cm's and replace both with a 12.8 cm DP mount. Slap on as many 40 mm Bofors guns as possible. Done. (Totes not what I did with the H-class, by God Sir no.)

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Yeah... no.

As mnetioned the Iowas never had a 4th turret and i have no idea where you got the idea that it did unless you are getting mixed up with the proposed montana class. Most battle ship priamry turrets were held in by gravity and just taking out the turret dropping in equivelent mass of ballast and planking over has never really worked successfully, just have a look at the fun fun issues the japanese had with thier battleship to carrier conversions (Ise and hyuga iirc)

That must be what happened, then. Mixing up my Iowas and Montanas.

But since it isn't supposed to be practical, more of a "what if?", I can handwave issues with ballast and the likelihood of it still being relevant.
Oh Soode, Dora wouldn't be replaced by a VLS array - the catapult would be. Dora would be replaced with a hangar and a helideck.

Even worse then. Without some hilarious buffeting where you removed the turret you can expect a massive loss in speed as your bow digs deeply downwards.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

IIRC its supposed to be a Ulstein X-bow design, which do work.

Its also quite a nasty mdoficiation of Thiel's waverider class from shipbucket.


Gig em Aggies: You may not be aware of this but the folks at shipbucket understandably get very upset when you take thier stuff and don't retain or ignore thier crediting standards.
I know you day you didn't draw these but I would be very pissied if you took some of my work and made the minimal changes you have done before claiming them as your nations' product. I'm not sure if Thiel is active on NS or what his nation might be if he is but you are definitely in mod actionable plagarism territory here if he is and he chooses to make an issue of it.

On the Gans reveille, if you can't see the fact the hull it no where near tall/deep enough or that a single thin "deck" with no real support, that honestly makes the famously under strength and spindly new Southern general helipad look rhobust and well designed, simply won't support 1, let alone multiple heavy helicopters, then the best advice is to simply go away and spend a lot more time looking at actual carriers. Trying multideck operations can be forgiven as many people think they are being new and original with the concept without realising that its been tried several tiems IRL and in all cases it was a horrible failure that was quickly abandonded.

Thinking I don't want trouble I did find the artist so now it should be okay.

On design of double flight deck how can I design or modify a ship for it to actually work?

Double flight decks was tried in the 30's, even triple superimposed decks. They discovered that it firstly encroached on vital hangar space, secondly limited the takeoff distance and thus impacted the maximum takeoff weight of aircraft you could throw off your flight deck, thirdly launching from the hangar required as many as six catapults to match the ability of four or less catapults on the main flight deck and nobody was willing to trade anti-air firepower, storm resistance and hangar space to launch planes from the hangar.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It's a 30 knot pre-dreadnought in 1920 weighing nothing. I think the issues should be self-evident.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

They tried putting a single big gun on a very light 4,700 ton hull. It heeled over as soon as the ship brought the gun to the side.
You need at least 12,000 tons to support four 12 inchers, and a speed of 30 knots. I suggest you start by looking at the Deutschland-class pocket battleships.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I decided to size down the guns since I wasn't looking for a battleship-strength ship here. And of course tripled the displacement. Thinking about adding torpedoes as well, although they would probably replace the 100mm's on the sides. Any other tweaks I could do, or missing info that would be nice?

The big question I have yet to ask is "What role do you envision this ship performing?" Deutschland-class pocket battleships were geared towards commerce raiding, which means heavy guns to sink anything lesser than it and power to get away from anything superior to it. Japanese cruisers, often in the same weight-class sported extensive torpedo batteries to give them an edge in long-range night fighting, to even the odds out for the eventual Decisive Battle their admirality envisioned. What role will your vessel assume?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Gay kitbash superdread. Have fun with your 30 km action radius and 100,000 gallons/mile engines.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

(Image)

Data: Class & Type: Pegasus Super Dreadnought Length: 380± m Speed: 50 Knots Helicopter carried: 1 Aviation facilities: - 2 helicopter landing-pad Number of Unit(s) In-Service: 1

PEGASUS-CLASS SUPER DREADNOUGHT

Technology Level: 3

Pegasus is the new version of the Asy-Nor class super dreadnought. The ship is currently under the command of Admiral Nikolas Kristofer. Work was completed for 1 year 6 months, when she was commissioned into the Arnorian fleet. Pegasus is the largest dreadnought ever built by Arnoria. The result was a battleship design based on six main requirements: strong horizontal armor protection, 16 cannons place, 4 for each main-turret, a top speed of at least 60 knots, a main artillery best fitting to the ship size, a good protection against mine hits and a good AA turrets strongly enough against twenty fighters.

((Note: Design is made by me, do not copy without my permission! All rights reserved.))

No... Just... No... It would need to be even larger if you wanted to fit the AA armament you need to defend against aircraft, and in any case, becuase there's a helicopter involved, that means jets and weapons with a longer range than AAA are involved in the attacks on your ship. In plain words, your ship is a doomed attempt at a super weapon which will be dealt with easier than the USN dealt with the Yamato and Musashi. The wankish speed is a nonfactor as well. It won't help your ship survive.

You should probs stop interfering with other ppl's "freeform rping".

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

No... Just... No... It would need to be even larger if you wanted to fit the AA armament you need to defend against aircraft, and in any case, becuase there's a helicopter involved, that means jets and weapons with a longer range than AAA are involved in the attacks on your ship. In plain words, your ship is a doomed attempt at a super weapon which will be dealt with easier than the USN dealt with the Yamato and Musashi. The wankish speed is a nonfactor as well. It won't help your ship survive.

Its still a prototype... upgrades are planned and made every year, though the High Command preferred to focus on the Airships project.

Well, now we have a firm grasp of the obvious.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Assault Destroyer-Armed with a 41 CM cannon, and is highly armored. Units-20
Magnetite-Uses a powerful electromagnet to pull enemy boats to its spiked hull. In other times, it uses torpedoes. Units-40
Barracuda Submarine-Surfaces to fire with its 20 cm cannons, otherwise uses long-range unguided torpedoes that drive deep into armor. Units-50
Shakuras Battleship-Long range bombarding cannon ship with 30 cm guns. Cannot attack enemies that are too close. Units-12
Dreadnought-Fire V-2 rockets at long range targets. Cannot attack enemies that are too close. Units-14
Incinerator-Blows flames at enemy ships, or fires rockets that have incindieary charges that go aflame in impact. Unit-17
Aircraft Carrier-You know what they do. Units-8
Naginata Cruiser-Fires volleys of torpedoes as well as using EMP bolts. Units-20
Ganthritor Battleship- Has immense fire power with its 41 mm guns and fires rockets. Units-2
Hammer Hand Cruiser-Very fast and maneuverable. Used to bait enemies. Units-18
Unteerseboote-Submarines that fire torpedoes upwards towards surface ships, aiming at their undersides. Units-12

Immaculate nonsense. Go you.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Why is the destroyer armed with a 41cm gun and the battleship has a 41mm gun? :^)

Edit: Even the sub has a bigger gun.

There's also the question of 41 cm what. A 41 cm 15 caliber howitzer? Or something more substantial?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Inferior insofar as to method. But IJN FCS was completely capable of matching USN FCS. I don't know where this "they had to be sailing straight" rumor came from, as Kongo was able to hit the maneuvering Taffy 3 Tin Cans with her main battery.

The Japanese didn't achieve a single hit until 15-20 minutes into the gunnery battle. The US Destroyer Escorts started getting hits within 5 minutes, and once they had one they locked their fire directors and scored a whole lot more before they started taking casualties.

Might have had something to do with the appalling weather conditions the IJN saw through their directors. It was the same for the Battlecruiser Fleet at Jutland, they spent ten minutes getting on target while the Germans started straddling with their third to fourth salvoes. Mind you this is a point for all-weather radar direction more than anything else.

Inferior insofar as to method. But IJN FCS was completely capable of matching USN FCS. I don't know where this "they had to be sailing straight" rumor came from, as Kongo was able to hit the maneuvering Taffy 3 Tin Cans with her main battery.


Yet drew comparable results to USN FSC.

Destroyers were scoring hits on IJN ships while maneuvering at their max ranges. When your battleships and cruisers have to close to destroyer range to start scoring hits, then I'd say your FCS is definitely inferior. Kongo was hitting them with her main battery at absurdly short range for a battleship anyway.

And Grand Fleet started getting definitive hits at around 10 km's range, what is the point other than the one already established? Did you expect anything extraordinary from technology derived from the 1916's Royal Navy?
Besides, HMS Defence was annihilated at an absurdly short range of a mere 6-7 kilometers. Is it the fault of the German direction now, as their guns could reach out to 16 km's?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Might have had something to do with the appalling weather conditions the IJN saw through their directors. It was the same for the Battlecruiser Fleet at Jutland, they spent ten minutes getting on target while the Germans started straddling with their third to fourth salvoes. Mind you this is a point for all-weather radar direction more than anything else.

And Grand Fleet started getting definitive hits at around 10 km's range, what is the point other than the one already established? Did you expect anything extraordinary from technology derived from the 1916's Royal Navy?
Besides, HMS Defence was annihilated at an absurdly short range of a mere 6-7 kilometers. Is it the fault of the German direction now, as their guns could reach out to 16 km's?

Jutland was fought with the then state of the art technologies. Leyte Gulf took place 30 years later, so one would expect there to have been better gunnery from the Japanese.

You get what you got when you country industrialized half-way no more than 50 years ago.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Are battleships still useful today? I'd want my nation to have some since they are just so cool.

They can be, they are very costly though.

"Caecus caeco dux." quotes P-500 Bazalt from Horace.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

New battleships have not been built since WW2.

Their heavy armor is virtually useless, their guns will never get into combat range of an enemy ship.

You can mount missiles and torpedoes on a lighter ship.

This battleship would lose a fight to four Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.

Are you kidding? You wouldn't need ships

Notice how it spawns in midair.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Notice how it spawns in midair.

It was a game mechanic.

Which means for reality?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Which means for reality?

It will launch from a airfield in range, unless the fleet is too faraway and there isn't any aircraft carriers.

Which for this statement means?

Are you kidding? You wouldn't need ships

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Which for this statement means?

I was just demonstrating, battleships can be defeated by aircraft as well.

I would have guessed ships included aircraft carriers, but nvm.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Our Leviathan-class megabattleships are one of the largest in the world. It is 2,400m long and 1,000m wide! It costs over 4 billion dollars to produce each one, and there are only 2 of these. With top speed of 50 mph, it is medium in mobility. It also has over 700 rocket launchers to destroy land and sea units, which launches FURY-2 rockets. It has 200 SAMs, which can destroy aircraft in matter of seconds. It also has over 400 GSM (ground to sea missiles), and also 100 ICBM silos! It is very large and easy to hit, but it is a floating megafortress with 6-layer titanium Lightweight armor.

かっこいいですわ！

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Our Leviathan-class megabattleships are one of the largest in the world. It is 2,400m long and 1,000m wide! It costs over 4 billion dollars to produce each one, and there are only 2 of these. With top speed of 50 mph, it is medium in mobility. It also has over 700 rocket launchers to destroy land and sea units, which launches FURY-2 rockets. It has 200 SAMs, which can destroy aircraft in matter of seconds. It also has over 400 GSM (ground to sea missiles), and also 100 ICBM silos! It is very large and easy to hit, but it is a floating megafortress with 6-layer titanium Lightweight armor.

Repost:

Thing is, his thing is 2.4 km by 1 km.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

What options are out there for naval fire support? It seems like as far as guns go there really are only the 5" or smaller guns, the 155mm AGS, or naval versions of land tech (i.e. MONARC). I'm leaning towards a naval version of a 155mm/52 but wonder what the other options are?

Edit: I think that I will investigate putting a 210mm/52 Howitzer (like Al Fao), with autoloader and water cooled barrel on a ship.

Rockets?



It amazes me how even though the USN had literal ships full of rockets for supporting landings in WWII NSFS is now taken as a synonym for guns. Thanks Sparky!

Not the Russians.