Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Chanel Clan]

I thought missle boats were modern day PT's: small ships capable of threatening much larger and more plentiful forces?

As mentioned before I'm pondering doing an AU Ukraine in a new account, and am trying to figure out what kind of a force would allow me to interact with other people without straying to far from reality. As you may know, the Ukrainian's have one Krivak frigate left, plus two Beriev Be-12 maritime patrol aircraft which might form a reasonably capable force for overseas deployment. Unfortunately, for some reason (Soviet Doctrine?) Ukraine seems to have focused on ASW.

What about an old sub, like Ukraine's Foxtrot? Or an landing ship for amphibious ops? Or would that be too much in need of escort?

[Grays Harbor]

just because. USS Saratoga air ops movie from 1932. Thought some of y'all might find it interesting.
Also has some shots of the rigid airship USS Akron ( I believe) and USS Langley CV 1.

[Spirit of Hope]

I thought missile boats were modern day PT's: small ships capable of threatening much larger and more plentiful forces?

Not really. Even in there day PT boats weren't a real threat to larger ships. First missile boats lose to larger warships because they don't have the ability to mount radar, and even if they did their small size would give them a much smaller radar horizon. What this means is that almost universally the larger ship will see the missile boat first.

Second is weapons, the larger ship will be able to carry much heavier missiles which means longer range and heavy warheads. This allows the larger ship to strike the missile boat from further away.

Third most modern destroyers, and larger vessels, have the ability to use helicopters. This further gives the larger ship an advantage over the missile boat. It can effectively launch, limited, air attacks and because of the limited armaments of the missile boat and lack of radar the missile boat will have almost not ability to retaliate. This further extends the ability of the larger boat to spot and destroy the smaller missile boat.

The only area where a missile boat has a chance is in cluttered terrain where the larger boat has limited ability to maneuver and the missile boat has terrain to hide behind. Why missile boats were popular with Scandinavian nations, any Soviet assault would be stuck in the Baltic sea and there is plenty of terrain for the missile boat to hide in.

As mentioned before I'm pondering doing an AU Ukraine in a new account, and am trying to figure out what kind of a force would allow me to interact with other people without straying to far from reality. As you may know, the Ukrainian's have one Krivak frigate left, plus two Beriev Be-12 maritime patrol aircraft which might form a reasonably capable force for overseas deployment. Unfortunately, for some reason (Soviet Doctrine?) Ukraine seems to have focused on ASW.

The soviets real interest in a navy was to attempt to cut the United States off from Europe via the Atlantic Ocean. They had little interest in power projection via the navy, which is what the United States heavily developed.

What about an old sub, like Ukraine's Foxtrot? Or an landing ship for amphibious ops? Or would that be too much in need of escort?

I don't think you are going to be able to build much out of the existing Ukraine, even before Russia stole its territory and fostered rebellion, for a navy that can deploy around. They had a couple of escorts/light surface warships and old submarines. You could send them out, but they essentially need allies if they are going to do much besides show the flag.

The question becomes how far are you willing to go from reality?

Submarines can be deployed out, but they are much more about denying the enemy territory than projecting your own force. A form of Amphibious assault ship, say along the lines of the America class or Wasp class, may be useful to you but they would require 2-3 escorts.

Obviously Ukraine post Soviet Union really couldn't support those units. However if you had them making a better transition out of the Soviet Union, and potentially a better previous position in the Soviet Union, with an effort to build a navy you could have a amphibious assault ship, 5-6 frigates, 3-4 submarines. Probably would really require Ukraine already being used for ship construction.

[Mitheldalond]

First attempt at shipbucket, so I mostly just switched around weapons and radar and stuff on existing ships. They're supposed to be WWII ships brought up as close to modern warships as possible, for whatever reason.

Am I doin' it right?

EDIT: stats to come later

[Venice-Slovenia1]

how is the sovermenny class for a standard fleet vessel for an area like the mediterrenean and adriatic sea?

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

Would be a tad overkill for the Adriatic and rather outdated but for the Mediterranean as a cheap DDG, should be ok

[Chanel Clan]

I thought missile boats were modern day PT's: small ships capable of threatening much larger and more plentiful forces?

Not really. Even in there day PT boats weren't a real threat to larger ships. First missile boats lose to larger warships because they don't have the ability to mount radar, and even if they did their small size would give them a much smaller radar horizon. What this means is that almost universally the larger ship will see the missile boat first.

Second is weapons, the larger ship will be able to carry much heavier missiles which means longer range and heavy warheads. This allows the larger ship to strike the missile boat from further away.

Third most modern destroyers, and larger vessels, have the ability to use helicopters. This further gives the larger ship an advantage over the missile boat. It can effectively launch, limited, air attacks and because of the limited armaments of the missile boat and lack of radar the missile boat will have almost not ability to retaliate. This further extends the ability of the larger boat to spot and destroy the smaller missile boat.

The only area where a missile boat has a chance is in cluttered terrain where the larger boat has limited ability to maneuver and the missile boat has terrain to hide behind. Why missile boats were popular with Scandinavian nations, any Soviet assault would be stuck in the Baltic sea and there is plenty of terrain for the missile boat to hide in.

As mentioned before I'm pondering doing an AU Ukraine in a new account, and am trying to figure out what kind of a force would allow me to interact with other people without straying to far from reality. As you may know, the Ukrainian's have one Krivak frigate left, plus two Beriev Be-12 maritime patrol aircraft which might form a reasonably capable force for overseas deployment. Unfortunately, for some reason (Soviet Doctrine?) Ukraine seems to have focused on ASW.

The soviets real interest in a navy was to attempt to cut the United States off from Europe via the Atlantic Ocean. They had little interest in power projection via the navy, which is what the United States heavily developed.

What about an old sub, like Ukraine's Foxtrot? Or an landing ship for amphibious ops? Or would that be too much in need of escort?

I don't think you are going to be able to build much out of the existing Ukraine, even before Russia stole its territory and fostered rebellion, for a navy that can deploy around. They had a couple of escorts/light surface warships and old submarines. You could send them out, but they essentially need allies if they are going to do much besides show the flag.

The question becomes how far are you willing to go from reality?

Submarines can be deployed out, but they are much more about denying the enemy territory than projecting your own force. A form of Amphibious assault ship, say along the lines of the America class or Wasp class, may be useful to you but they would require 2-3 escorts.

Obviously Ukraine post Soviet Union really couldn't support those units. However if you had them making a better transition out of the Soviet Union, and potentially a better previous position in the Soviet Union, with an effort to build a navy you could have a amphibious assault ship, 5-6 frigates, 3-4 submarines. Probably would really require Ukraine already being used for ship construction.

Ok, so maybe I'll do a clean sheet navy with ex-soviet tech. I want to stick to real world tech rather than NS-grade stuff. My thinking is possibly a fleet with more ships than men in order to save cost. Maybe a couple of frigates or an submarines, and some smaller corvettes? Possibly an LST, though my last amphibious invasion was a bit of a faff. I don't want to go to overboard with the power projection, but it would be nice to have the capability to show the flag and dabble in expeditionary warfare every once and a while. Even Ukraine manged to send their LST out to evac civies from Syria. The last nation I rp-ed as was Czechoslovakia, and while i love czechnology not being able to participate in bigger rp's without hitting history repeatedly over the head with a baseball bat was no fun.

How about this:

6 Stenka class PB's
2 Kirvak FFG's or 2 Foxtrot SSK's
1 Ropucha or Polnochy class LST

What's your assessment of the Beriev Be-12?

[Carriebean7]

we have 21 Katana class Destroyers.
displacement: 6,751 T
length: 499 ft
complement:
speed: 35 knots ( 40mp/h)
propulsion: 3X General Electric l11700 turbines each generating 21,345 horsepower

Armament: 1 X f.45mm frontal defense cannon
12 X Bai X L57 Anti Ship Missiles
12X Bai I L51 Anti Air Missiles
4 X Rapid Fire Self Defense batteries ( basically mini guns or chain guns)

the first seven were ordered on May 5th,1987 and were complete oct 19th,1989


The CNS Lee

[Radicchio]

OK, so i know a bit about submarine detection using towed sonar boueys, dipping sonar, sinking sonar boueys, active/passive sonar, hydrophones and magnetic anomaly detection, wake detection, etc...

What i need to know is more about anti-submarine weapons.

Are depth charges still a thing? Are Torpedoes the go to? I know there are missiles but are these active seekers of soe kind or are they programmed or guided from the surface?
How does this work in the modern navy?

[The Soodean Imperium]

OK, so i know a bit about submarine detection using towed sonar boueys, dipping sonar, sinking sonar boueys, active/passive sonar, hydrophones and magnetic anomaly detection, wake detection, etc...

What i need to know is more about anti-submarine weapons.

Are depth charges still a thing? Are Torpedoes the go to? I know there are missiles but are these active seekers of soe kind or are they programmed or guided from the surface?
How does this work in the modern navy?

As of the 1970s at least, a lot of Soviet surface combatants were designed with the capability to carry depth charge racks on the stern, but they're not a very common option anymore. This is mainly because they require the ASW vessel to be directly over the submarine, and modern nuclear SSNs can move very quickly when submerged.

Torpedoes are more common, and typically feature active sonar guidance in the terminal stage to home in on a submarine. On a few Soviet surface vessels (some of the later "Grishas" IIRC) these torpedoes had wire guidance for the initial stage, a feature common on both NATO and Soviet submarines; I'm not sure about NATO surface vessels though.

The range of ASW torpedoes was greatly extended by weapons like ASROC, in which a missile would carry a homing torpedo to the submarine's last reported position and drop it there. In earlier times when seekers weren't as good, the homing torpedo could be replaced by a nuclear depth charge for a greater chance of target kill.

There are also a few weapons like the Soviet RBU-6000 and the US Weapon Alpha, which launch rocket-propelled depth charges at the target area over a longer range than earlier "K-gun" depth-charge projectors but a shorter range than ASROC.

[Spirit of Hope]

OK, so i know a bit about submarine detection using towed sonar boueys, dipping sonar, sinking sonar boueys, active/passive sonar, hydrophones and magnetic anomaly detection, wake detection, etc...

What i need to know is more about anti-submarine weapons.

Are depth charges still a thing? Are Torpedoes the go to? I know there are missiles but are these active seekers of soe kind or are they programmed or guided from the surface?
How does this work in the modern navy?

In addition to what The Soodean Imperium has already listed helicopters and marintime patrol aircraft that carry sonar buoys, dipping sonar, and MAD also often carry torpedoes themselves which they can employ. From what I remember they are simply torpedoes with active sonar in them.

6 Stenka class PB's
2 Kirvak FFG's or 2 Foxtrot SSK's
1 Ropucha or Polnochy class LST

What's your assessment of the Beriev Be-12?

That looks manageable. You could probably have a couple more patrol boats. One reason I don't use real world nations is they are to hard to fit with what I want as capabilities for NS RPs.

The Beriev is a workable maritime patrol aircraft. I don't think you would have much need of its flying boat capabilities though.

[Sahrani South]

What do you guys think of the Mobile Offshore Base (aka “Battle Island”, aka how to make a CVN captain feel puny) concept? Contrary to aircraft carriers, a MOB could also operate land-based aircraft (e.g. large transports, bombers). What is your opinion?

[Spirit of Hope]

What do you guys think of the Mobile Offshore Base (aka “Battle Island”, aka how to make a CVN captain feel puny) concept? Contrary to aircraft carriers, a MOB could also operate land-based aircraft (e.g. large transports, bombers). What is your opinion?

([url=http://images.pennwellnet.com/ogj/images/off2/0703a.jpg]Image)[/url]

Impractical to impossible. Size makes it hard to build, expensive, technologically complicated, and requiring facilities that would be impractical to build and would only have use for this ship.

Additionally there are questions about how well something like that would handle the ocean, bad weather, and other conditions.

Finally the need for such a ship is questionable. Carriers already provide much of the capabilities it would provide, and mid air refueling would provide for much of the rest of the capability.

[Auroya]

The MOB is just rule of cool IRL

[The Soodean Imperium]

What do you guys think of the Mobile Offshore Base (aka “Battle Island”, aka how to make a CVN captain feel puny) concept? Contrary to aircraft carriers, a MOB could also operate land-based aircraft (e.g. large transports, bombers). What is your opinion?

([url=http://images.pennwellnet.com/ogj/images/off2/0703a.jpg]Image)[/url]

Mobile Offshore Base is, at best, a barge you tow to a harbor near the target country to operate supply aircraft in the area - though even then, it would be preferable to operate from an allied airbase nearby, or to move in from further away with mid-air refueling. It is not, despite what concept art like this suggests, a "super-super-carrier" that functions exactly like a CVN except it's bigger.

[Connori Pilgrims]

What do you guys think of the Mobile Offshore Base (aka “Battle Island”, aka how to make a CVN captain feel puny) concept? Contrary to aircraft carriers, a MOB could also operate land-based aircraft (e.g. large transports, bombers). What is your opinion?

([url=http://images.pennwellnet.com/ogj/images/off2/0703a.jpg]Image)[/url]

As Soode has noted, it is not an aircraft carrier. It is not mobile enough to serve as one, and as far as is known it is incapable of movement without being towed.

Impractical to impossible. Size makes it hard to build, expensive, technologically complicated, and requiring facilities that would be impractical to build and would only have use for this ship.

Additionally there are questions about how well something like that would handle the ocean, bad weather, and other conditions.

Finally the need for such a ship is questionable. Carriers already provide much of the capabilities it would provide, and mid air refueling would provide for much of the rest of the capability.

US industry was assessed in 2000 to be technically capable of producing such a platform - note again it is NOT a ship as Sahrani thinks it is. In all likelihood construction of such a thing would not be dissimilar to that of an oil rig. What scuppered this thing officially was cost-effectiveness compared to allied bases + aircraft carriers.

For a power with ambitions of global power projection - especially in the dreaded play-place we call NS - I'd argue that such a platform may actually be desirable. In the NS world, there is no guarantee of reliable allies in theatre for any power (especially in the context of people joining RPs set in regions other than their own, with no previous contact between them). And given that NS allows people to build whole nations or even regions around reprehensible ideologies and politically indefensible actions that make Saudi Arabia look like the perfect UNCHR head, there may be little to zero incentive to ally-up like what the US does IRL (especially since, lets face it, most NSers don't do realpolitik and stick to their idealistic guns).

[Noctenos]

Powerful, state-of-the-art warships, crewed by our most excellent navy men. One of these, laddies, is enough to sink an entire fleet - mark my words!

[Spirit of Hope]

What do you guys think of the Mobile Offshore Base (aka “Battle Island”, aka how to make a CVN captain feel puny) concept? Contrary to aircraft carriers, a MOB could also operate land-based aircraft (e.g. large transports, bombers). What is your opinion?

([url=http://images.pennwellnet.com/ogj/images/off2/0703a.jpg]Image)[/url]

As Soode has noted, it is not an aircraft carrier. It is not mobile enough to serve as one, and as far as is known it is incapable of movement without being towed.

Impractical to impossible. Size makes it hard to build, expensive, technologically complicated, and requiring facilities that would be impractical to build and would only have use for this ship.

Additionally there are questions about how well something like that would handle the ocean, bad weather, and other conditions.

Finally the need for such a ship is questionable. Carriers already provide much of the capabilities it would provide, and mid air refueling would provide for much of the rest of the capability.

US industry was assessed in 2000 to be technically capable of producing such a platform - note again it is NOT a ship as Sahrani thinks it is. In all likelihood construction of such a thing would not be dissimilar to that of an oil rig. What scuppered this thing officially was cost-effectiveness compared to allied bases + aircraft carriers.

For a power with ambitions of global power projection - especially in the dreaded play-place we call NS - I'd argue that such a platform may actually be desirable. In the NS world, there is no guarantee of reliable allies in theatre for any power (especially in the context of people joining RPs set in regions other than their own, with no previous contact between them). And given that NS allows people to build whole nations or even regions around reprehensible ideologies and politically indefensible actions that make Saudi Arabia look like the perfect UNCHR head, there may be little to zero incentive to ally-up like what the US does IRL (especially since, lets face it, most NSers don't do realpolitik and stick to their idealistic guns).

Jut because the United States could make it doesn't mean the United States should make it. The estimated cost was 5-8 Billion, and it likely would have climbed higher.

[Gallia-]

What do you guys think of the Mobile Offshore Base (aka “Battle Island”, aka how to make a CVN captain feel puny) concept? Contrary to aircraft carriers, a MOB could also operate land-based aircraft (e.g. large transports, bombers). What is your opinion?

([url=http://images.pennwellnet.com/ogj/images/off2/0703a.jpg]Image)[/url]

It's a silly concept but there's nothing technically wrong with it.

[The Soodean Imperium]

For a power with ambitions of global power projection - especially in the dreaded play-place we call NS - I'd argue that such a platform may actually be desirable. In the NS world, there is no guarantee of reliable allies in theatre for any power (especially in the context of people joining RPs set in regions other than their own, with no previous contact between them). And given that NS allows people to build whole nations or even regions around reprehensible ideologies and politically indefensible actions that make Saudi Arabia look like the perfect UNCHR head, there may be little to zero incentive to ally-up like what the US does IRL (especially since, lets face it, most NSers don't do realpolitik and stick to their idealistic guns).

On the other hand, though, expeditionary warfare on the scale that would require a Mobile Offshore Platform is only feasible in a uni-polar world dominated by a single superpower that faces few rivals and can intervene abroad at its leisure - a status even the US doesn't quite enjoy. In a multi-polar "NS World" teeming with aggressive powers stronger than one's own, a fleet far from its homeland towing a massive barge would be too easy a target for interception by Ballzistan, and would leave one's own country open to invasion by Helghast Ripoff #54602. If anything, I'd speculate that a military strategy built for the conditions of the "NS World" would be defined by an unusual emphasis on self-defense, not an unusual emphasis on expeditionary campaigning.

Granted, "International Incidents" is a convenient medium for meeting new RPers, especially for someone who's new to the game or hasn't found a good RPing group to settle in. But there's a reason I RP as if my region were a world all by itself.

[The Wings of Morelia]

I'm new here, and I was wondering where you guys found those pixelart (?) warships from?
I tried searching here, and my vocabulary is failing me. Or did you guys draw this instead?

[Connori Pilgrims]

Jut because the United States could make it doesn't mean the United States should make it. The estimated cost was 5-8 Billion, and it likely would have climbed higher.

No doubt the cost would have climbed higher, nor did I say the US should have made it. Until such a time when the US is forced to abandon all foreign bases and can no longer guarantee refuelling tanker safety, the US has no need of such a platform.

[The Soodean Imperium]

I'm new here, and I was wondering where you guys found those pixelart (?) warships from?
I tried searching here, and my vocabulary is failing me. Or did you guys draw this instead?

Most of the pixel-art or lineart warships here were drawn by their posters. If you want to find a site where a lot of warship art is gathered, that would be Shipbucket.

[Spirit of Hope]

I'm new here, and I was wondering where you guys found those pixelart (?) warships from?
I tried searching here, and my vocabulary is failing me. Or did you guys draw this instead?

Most of the pixel-art or lineart warships here were drawn by their posters. If you want to find a site where a lot of warship art is gathered, that would be Shipbucket.

To add on to this, if you have a Windows Operating System computer you have MS Paint already installed, and can use that to build your own warships, or tweak other works that you find either here or on Shipbucket. Just remember to ask permission and give credit for any artwork you are borrowing or modifying.

If you do not have a Windows OS, such as Mac or Linux, you can find GIMP which is a free open source pixel art/line art program. Just give it a google search.

[Kingdom of genoa]

heres my warships for the most part, i love the Sovereign
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=kingdom_of_genoa/detail=factbook/id=408425