Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Husseinarti]

*looks that up* Oooh a stealth destroyer with lasers and railguns! Noice! Are the capital ships it escorts stealth too?

It's like 3 billion for a single ship lel

[New Oyashima]

Seeing as they added Bogue-chan to World of Warships, is thier any use to a modern CVE?

[New Oyashima]

*looks that up* Oooh a stealth destroyer with lasers and railguns! Noice! Are the capital ships it escorts stealth too?

It's like 3 billion for a single ship lel

Where's the 500 ship navy now Amerifat congress?

[Aznazia]

It's like 3 billion for a single ship lel

Where's the 500 ship navy now Amerifat congress?

It disappeared with the Oliver Hazard Perry Class....

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/end-of ... 1678669074

[Connori Pilgrims]

Seeing as they added Bogue-chan to World of Warships, is thier any use to a modern CVE?

A "modern CVE" is basically Principe de Austrias, Invincible-Class, Juan Carlos I, Cavour, and Giuseppe Garibaldi.

If that's as much as one can afford, then yeah sure go for it.

[Valdiu]

Would submarine aircraft carriers, each carrying one VTOL aircraft (or a helicopter) be feasible in today's navies? I'm thinking of having them in lieu of a nuclear armament in a "logistic submarine" class I'm dreaming up. What about a launch bay for a midget sub?

[The Akasha Colony]

Would submarine aircraft carriers, each carrying one VTOL aircraft (or a helicopter) be feasible in today's navies? I'm thinking of having them in lieu of a nuclear armament in a "logistic submarine" class I'm dreaming up. What about a launch bay for a midget sub?

Why would you build a multi-billion dollar submarine to support a single aircraft?

[Valdiu]

It doesn't have to, it's just the added bonus. It'd be nice to have one, because what I'm envisioning is a submarine that could support a small commando force if it needed to, with a midget submarine and possibly an aircraft.

[The Akasha Colony]

It doesn't have to, it's just the added bonus. It'd be nice to have one, because what I'm envisioning is a submarine that could support a small commando force if it needed to, with a midget submarine and possibly an aircraft.

It would not be remotely worth the cost, complexity, and issues versus a simple VLS for cruise missiles, and swimmer delivery vehicles can already be attached to the hull externally.

[Iltica]

Hypothetically, if one was to make a full size submersible carrier, but with normal navy planes. Is there any plausible way to keep the deck dry or to dry it off very quickly after surfacing so the planes don't slide around like a fat kid on Slip N' Slide?

[Lamoni]

Hypothetically, if one was to make a full size submersible carrier, but with normal navy planes. Is there any plausible way to keep the deck dry or to dry it off very quickly after surfacing so the planes don't slide around like a fat kid on Slip N' Slide?

Submarine carriers are a horrible idea in the first place, even if Pharthan built one already.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Hypothetically, if one was to make a full size submersible carrier, but with normal navy planes. Is there any plausible way to keep the deck dry or to dry it off very quickly after surfacing so the planes don't slide around like a fat kid on Slip N' Slide?

Submarine carriers are a horrible idea in the first place, even if Pharthan built one already.

Forgive me for posing a "dumb" question but for the benefit of Iltica would you mind qualifying that statement Lamoni?

[Lamoni]

Certainly.

Now, you could use a aircraft carrying submarine full of compromises, but once detected it runs into three catagories ( because stealthing your way out won't work ) :

-It dies because it was badly designed.
-It survives because it has escorts, which would mean it may as well have steamed on the surface the whole time.
-It survived because it has enough countermeasures to survive on its own (again, why bother submerging it?).

Of course, the reason why people like this is for the "Surprise-LOLWTF" factor of a "carrier" appearing where it would be least expected, possibly in a sensitive spot.

For that, I point you to the Pearl-Harbour raid, the Doolittle raid, and the battle of Midway, in all instances, conventional carriers "appeared out of nowhere and proceeded to rape the fuck out of the enemy", one of which involved zero escorts, (but was essentially a one way trip for the B-25s and was deemed a failure by J. Doolittle himself). If you're going for realism (at all), you're better off with traditional carriers and traditional subs.

[Rich and Corporations]

Would submarine aircraft carriers, each carrying one VTOL aircraft (or a helicopter) be feasible in today's navies? I'm thinking of having them in lieu of a nuclear armament in a "logistic submarine" class I'm dreaming up. What about a launch bay for a midget sub?

Why would you build a multi-billion dollar submarine to support a single aircraft?

I would.

Because of NS distances. (SF raids like Bin Laden raid requires a base within 300 miles)

And scouting.

And precision strikes under an opposition EW environment.

Hypothetically, if one was to make a full size submersible carrier, but with normal navy planes. Is there any plausible way to keep the deck dry or to dry it off very quickly after surfacing so the planes don't slide around like a fat kid on Slip N' Slide?

It'd be terrible if it were to... rain.

[New Oyashima]

Midway was completely expected. The Japanese and the Americans both knew the other had carriers somewhere near the island. And even though the Americans made more unprofessional mistakes, they got luckier and won.

[The Akasha Colony]

Hypothetically, if one was to make a full size submersible carrier, but with normal navy planes. Is there any plausible way to keep the deck dry or to dry it off very quickly after surfacing so the planes don't slide around like a fat kid on Slip N' Slide?

They don't need to be dry if you use a non-slip surface. But if you have the exterior functioning as the flight deck, then this impacts the submarine's hydrodynamic shaping, and thus its stealth properties. And the textured non-slip surface is generally not what you want for the smooth-as-possible exterior of a submarine. Submarines are also not particularly stable while surfaced.

The other problems come with sealing the aircraft compartment, because large holes in the pressure hull are not a good thing and dealing with any sort of engine repairs in a closed-atmosphere environment. There's nowhere to test the engines after maintenance and only a limited ability to deal with anything that might require lots of ventilation. At least, if surfacing is to be avoided (and for a submarine, that should be avoided unless absolutely necessary or well outside the combat area).

Midway was completely expected. The Japanese and the Americans both knew the other had carriers somewhere near the island. And even though the Americans made more unprofessional mistakes, they got luckier and won.

The Americans won because they knew more about what was going on than the Japanese going into the battle and because they were willing to be more aggressive terms of sortie rates.

[Radicchio]

Wouldn't really call it a 'ship' but does anyone think there's potential in making a tiny fast submersible? Kind of a weaponized version of this?
(Image)
(Image)
It could sneak into harbors or up rivers to deliver a small explosive charge and speed away before anyone knows what happened. Or possibly to insert/extract agents from shoreline locations with a 2 seater?

I Keep these around just to piss off other Navies which are heavy on air defense but low on anti-submarine warfare.

The SB Series One man Submersible is a one manned, short duration submersible watercraft with high value target seeking active sonar and a high maneuverability which is armed with a single "bottom up" attack stealth torpedo.

The reserve fleet maintains two SB Series "Mantas" on each of the sixty five Islands in the Radicchio Chain for a total of 130 Boats. These submersibles are stored in undesignated, civilian harbors and manned by highly trained pilot crews who live at "sleeper" naval communication bases near the harbors, making them very hard to detect.

[Husseinarti]

Wouldn't really call it a 'ship' but does anyone think there's potential in making a tiny fast submersible? Kind of a weaponized version of this?
(Image)
(Image)
It could sneak into harbors or up rivers to deliver a small explosive charge and speed away before anyone knows what happened. Or possibly to insert/extract agents from shoreline locations with a 2 seater?

I Keep these around just to piss off other Navies which are heavy on air defense but low on anti-submarine warfare.

The SB Series One man Submersible is a one manned, short duration submersible watercraft with high value target seeking active sonar and a high maneuverability which is armed with a single "bottom up" attack stealth torpedo.

The reserve fleet maintains two SB Series "Mantas" on each of the sixty five Islands in the Radicchio Chain for a total of 130 Boats. These submersibles are stored in undesignated, civilian harbors and manned by highly trained pilot crews who live at "sleeper" naval communication bases near the harbors, making them very hard to detect.

Its the Hydra boat from Captain America.

gg

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Wouldn't really call it a 'ship' but does anyone think there's potential in making a tiny fast submersible? Kind of a weaponized version of this?
(Image)
(Image)
It could sneak into harbors or up rivers to deliver a small explosive charge and speed away before anyone knows what happened. Or possibly to insert/extract agents from shoreline locations with a 2 seater?

I Keep these around just to piss off other Navies which are heavy on air defense but low on anti-submarine warfare.

The SB Series One man Submersible is a one manned, short duration submersible watercraft with high value target seeking active sonar and a high maneuverability which is armed with a single "bottom up" attack stealth torpedo.

The reserve fleet maintains two SB Series "Mantas" on each of the sixty five Islands in the Radicchio Chain for a total of 130 Boats. These submersibles are stored in undesignated, civilian harbors and manned by highly trained pilot crews who live at "sleeper" naval communication bases near the harbors, making them very hard to detect.

And your expected enemy is?

[Korva]

Cobra Commander

[The Corparation]

Certainly.

Now, you could use a aircraft carrying submarine full of compromises, but once detected it runs into three catagories ( because stealthing your way out won't work ) :

-It dies because it was badly designed.
-It survives because it has escorts, which would mean it may as well have steamed on the surface the whole time.
-It survived because it has enough countermeasures to survive on its own (again, why bother submerging it?).

Of course, the reason why people like this is for the "Surprise-LOLWTF" factor of a "carrier" appearing where it would be least expected, possibly in a sensitive spot.

For that, I point you to the Pearl-Harbour raid, the Doolittle raid, and the battle of Midway, in all instances, conventional carriers "appeared out of nowhere and proceeded to rape the fuck out of the enemy", one of which involved zero escorts, (but was essentially a one way trip for the B-25s and was deemed a failure by J. Doolittle himself). If you're going for realism (at all), you're better off with traditional carriers and traditional subs.

The carriers in all three of the battles you listed had escorts....

Hypothetically, if one was to make a full size submersible carrier, but with normal navy planes. Is there any plausible way to keep the deck dry or to dry it off very quickly after surfacing so the planes don't slide around like a fat kid on Slip N' Slide?

Submarine carriers are a horrible idea in the first place, even if Pharthan built one already.

Pharthan knows they're dumb, irc he made one because this NS and horrible ideas are a specialty here. Same reason I did an Orion and my not-CL-1201.

[New Oyashima]

The Americans won because they knew more about what was going on than the Japanese going into the battle and because they were willing to be more aggressive terms of sortie rates.

All in all though, the USN was REALLY lucky that they cought the carriers rearming, and that the "rolling convergence" tactic that lost them a CV in coral sea didn't bite them in the ass. The IJN was unlicky, the USN was lucky. Not to mention CAP from the IJN carriers was drawn away chasing Torpedo bombers.

[Radicchio]

I Keep these around just to piss off other Navies which are heavy on air defense but low on anti-submarine warfare.

(Image)

The SB Series One man Submersible is a one manned, short duration submersible watercraft with high value target seeking active sonar and a high maneuverability which is armed with a single "bottom up" attack stealth torpedo.

The reserve fleet maintains two SB Series "Mantas" on each of the sixty five Islands in the Radicchio Chain for a total of 130 Boats. These submersibles are stored in undesignated, civilian harbors and manned by highly trained pilot crews who live at "sleeper" naval communication bases near the harbors, making them very hard to detect.

And your expected enemy is?

This vehicle was something i added after a recent RP in my region. Most of my naval command structure was overrun, occupied or destroyed and the surface fleet was engaged. after the RP was over, i developed a small "sleeper" navy including these and a number of small missile boats as a sort of last line of defense for future RPs.
I feel that it is an appropriate solution.

Cobra Commander

It is actually an image stolen from captain america, but because the movie never says what the mini-sub's capabilities are, i figure it is atleast reasonable to assume that it could operate short distances from the shore with a single torpedo.
EDIT:
And the capabilities of such a craft are well within the guidelines of something that can be built right now (or even 50 years ago) if a nation had the need to develop them, which i feel that i do.

[The Akasha Colony]

This vehicle was something i added after a recent RP in my region. Most of my naval command structure was overrun, occupied or destroyed and the surface fleet was engaged. after the RP was over, i developed a small "sleeper" navy including these and a number of small missile boats as a sort of last line of defense for future RPs.
I feel that it is an appropriate solution.

To hide ineffective deathtraps in your ports where you have completely surrendered any ability to concentrate your force? The enemy will be able to figure out you have them relatively easily. After that it's a cakewalk since they are hideously vulnerable.

It is actually an image stolen from captain america, but because the movie never says what the mini-sub's capabilities are, i figure it is atleast reasonable to assume that it could operate short distances from the shore with a single torpedo.
EDIT:
And the capabilities of such a craft are well within the guidelines of something that can be built right now (or even 50 years ago) if a nation had the need to develop them, which i feel that i do.

It will be hilariously noisy and slow. No matter how "stealthy" the "attack stealth torpedo" is, it's hard to get around the fact that this design is about as unstealthy as you can get. There's a reason why actual midget submarines look like, well, submarines and not jet fighters.

The Americans won because they knew more about what was going on than the Japanese going into the battle and because they were willing to be more aggressive terms of sortie rates.

All in all though, the USN was REALLY lucky that they cought the carriers rearming, and that the "rolling convergence" tactic that lost them a CV in coral sea didn't bite them in the ass. The IJN was unlicky, the USN was lucky. Not to mention CAP from the IJN carriers was drawn away chasing Torpedo bombers.

The IJN fought the battle conservatively because they felt they had a larger margin of superiority than they actually had, and as the superior power had more to lose from the battle than the US did. They held on to larger reserves than necessary and wasted valuable opportunities attempting to build the "perfect" strike group. In comparison, Fletcher decided to attack immediately when the opportunity presented itself, even if it meant reliance on more inexperienced crews. Fletcher knew the Japanese would be dispersed while the Japanese knew nothing of his own disposition.

It was simple probability: the Americans attacked more often, which of course sharply increased the likelihood of catching the enemy in a vulnerable position. It also kept them off balance even when the early strikes failed to score any hits. The Americans attacked the Japanese nine times. The Japanese only managed two attacks on the American carriers, both against the already-damaged Yorktown, and only after the American planes had retreated and left the Japanese with some time to lick their wounds. Despite being the attacker, the Americans forced the Japanese to remain on the defensive for almost the entire battle, snatching away the initiative.

The Japanese had insufficient reconnaissance assets (a recurring problem of their reliance on cruiser-based floatplanes for the task) and wasted resources attacking Midway unsuccessfully (the only "aircraft carrier" in the battle that could not be sunk no matter how many times it was attacked). That they were busy refueling aircraft when they were caught is not surprising, and the large quantity of ordnance and fuel stocked by carriers would be a recurring vulnerability in later battles as well.

[Fatatatutti]

Because of NS distances. (SF raids like Bin Laden raid requires a base within 300 miles)

And scouting.

And precision strikes under an opposition EW environment.

Tube-launched cruise missiles and/or drones would be much cheaper than manned aircraft.