Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Gallia-]

do you think youre the first person to come up with a supercavitating torpedo with an onc warhead on ns? it's not even wake homing

it's not even using the ramjet for open cycle nuclear fusion propulsion

youre like nine to ten years too late

Nah, it be a magnesium nanoparticle fueled water ramjet traveling at 400 knots with a range over 100km and an octaazacubane warhead that's the equivalent to 1000kg of TNT and stop supercavitating to turn on active sonar for terminal guidance while still traveling at over 100 knots.

nsmrc: plagiarizing the corpse of nsd since 200X

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=120633

Fine. Nuclear salt water rocket (6,700 second isp) traveling at hyperosnic speeds underwater with an antimatter boosted pure fusion warhead.

superdreadnoughts BTFO

lol nswr

is this 70s retrotech now?

not even d-d fusion ramjet

zmi has so much on you it's not even funny and doc stopped playing NS like 10 years ago

the most original thing you can do now is actually worldbuild instead of perusing random pdfs because that was already done literally a decade ago

next youll be putting supercavitating cruiser guns on your subs

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

I give up. Back to strict MT.

JK. Putting GAU-8 firing supercaviting apfsds as CIWS on all my subs. 1km Superdeadnought made entirely of CIWS.

[Gallia-]

the problem you have is youre basing "PMT" on a bunch of old documents that are years or decades old

nsd did this and died doing what it loved

dont repeat the mistakes of the past

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

the problem you have is youre basing "PMT" on a bunch of old documents that are years or decades old

nsd did this and died doing what it loved

dont repeat the mistakes of the past

It's PMT because nobody has ever really built it full scale and it's never entered service.

PMT is like railguns and lazors on everything with infantry charging with exosuits covered by scramjet powered close air support aircraft.

[Gallia-]

im building a pmt tank for galla

it will have a hypervelocity rocket launcher and hydrogen light gas gun and television periscopes to protect against atomic flash and a gas turbine engine

the ultimate pmt tank 6 km/s muzzle velocity come at me T-62

"pmt" is just code for "video games" or "old shit"

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

im building a pmt tank for galla

it will have a hypervelocity rocket launcher and hydrogen light gas gun and television periscopes to protect against atomic flash and a gas turbine engine

the ultimate pmt tank 6 km/s muzzle velocity come at me T-62

"Gas turbine"

Not compact liquid metal cooled nuclear reactor

No osmium-carbon nanotube armor

No quad tracks and twin 150mm scram cannons firing projectiles at orbital speeds

[Husseinarti]

buzzword buzzword buzzword isn't PMT

Well it is.

But it also isn't gay.

Well it is.

[Gallia-]

im building a pmt tank for galla

it will have a hypervelocity rocket launcher and hydrogen light gas gun and television periscopes to protect against atomic flash and a gas turbine engine

the ultimate pmt tank 6 km/s muzzle velocity come at me T-62

"Gas turbine"

Not compact liquid metal cooled nuclear reactor

No osmium-carbon nanotube armor

No quad tracks and twin 150mm scram cannons firing projectiles at orbital speeds

actually my pmt tank is a d-t fusion reactor not a "liquid metal cooled nuclear reactor" whatever that generic thing is with iridium-osmium hull armour and steel plates to protect the inflation skirts which allow it to traverse any terrains at 100 kph

lol who needs tracks when you have a skirt

orbital speeds lol slowpoke

my gun shoots slivers of copper undergoing nuclear fusion in cyan bolts moving at light speed

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

buzzword buzzword buzzword isn't PMT

Well it is.

But it also isn't gay.

Well it is.

It's more like "If you find a news article or research paper on it it's fair game"

I tend to restrict myself to stuff that's actually been prototyped and tested (railguns, scramjets, etc) so that I know it works, it's just applying it to an actual vehicle or weapon that you have to make up.

In my writeups I try to avoid spamming buzzwords but when you're trying to describe in detail how an exoskeletal hybrid pulse detonating adaptive cycle turbofan would work it becomes rather difficult.

actually my pmt tank is a d-t fusion reactor not a "liquid metal cooled nuclear reactor" whatever that generic thing is with iridium-osmium hull armour and steel plates to protect the inflation skirts which allow it to traverse any terrains at 100 kph

lol who needs tracks when you have a skirt

orbital speeds lol slowpoke

my gun shoots slivers of copper undergoing nuclear fusion in cyan bolts moving at light speed

Can it transform into a giant mech though? Is it also a VTOL that can travel into space to fight off robo-alien invaders? Can it also tunnel underground to fight subterranean nazis?

[The Akasha Colony]

(Image)

where is the sonar

I actually don't know. I couldn't find any real concepts of what a sonar-equipped supercavitating torpedo would look like, but there were repeated references to it being possible or considered. Any consideration either had just a placeholder image of Shkval or nothing at all.

IIRC I drew up this one shortly after reading through part of the torpedo section in Friedman's World Naval Weapons Systems on Google Books as well as Polmar's section in Cold War Submarines, but could only find reasonably good images of Shkval as a basis (which is why it is basically identical to Shkval aside from coloring). A very brief Google image search now came up with this, but it's just a Google patent page so I have no idea if it's viable or just some garage inventor's pipe dream.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

where is the sonar

I actually don't know. I couldn't find any real concepts of what a sonar-equipped supercavitating torpedo would look like, but there were repeated references to it being possible or considered. Any consideration either had just a placeholder image of Shkval or nothing at all.

IIRC I drew up this one shortly after reading through part of the torpedo section in Friedman's World Naval Weapons Systems on Google Books as well as Polmar's section in Cold War Submarines, but could only find reasonably good images of Shkval as a basis (which is why it is basically identical to Shkval aside from coloring). A very brief Google image search now came up with this, but it's just a Google patent page so I have no idea if it's viable or just some garage inventor's pipe dream.

There's this concept image which has the sonar built into the cavitator nose cone. My guess is that that once the torpedo stops supercavitating the nose cone blows off and reveals the active sonar just behind it.

The idea I have is the torpedo has a detachable pointed nose, kind of like a ballistic cap on a shell, that contains the cavitating nosecone and gas bottle. Once the torpedo stops supercavitating and slows down to around 70 ish knots the nosecone with the cavitating equipment is blown off which reveals a more rounded nose underneath that contains an active sonar system.

So it looks like a normal shaped non-supercavitaitng torpedo, just with a pointed nose that attaches to the front which contains all the supercaviting equipment. The idea is that once the torpedo stops supercavitating and turns on its sonar for its terminal homing phase all the supercavitating equipment (cavitating nosecone, gas generator) is dead weight so you might as well discard it.

[Triplebaconation]

The best bet is a steerable conical cavitator large enough to hold a sonar. The torpedo could use it to maneuver during the terminal phase and keep itself in the bubble during the sprint.

Shkval can't carry a sonar because that metal pipe goes all the way to the rocket. The front is a water intake. You don't need it because presumably you have some kind of throttleable liquid-fuel motor. The fins are actually cavity contact sensors, they'd probably more accurately be called skids. You'd have to have a vectored thrust nozzle, steerable nose or both.

[The Akasha Colony]

The best bet is a steerable conical cavitator large enough to hold a sonar. The torpedo could use it to maneuver during the terminal phase and keep itself in the bubble during the sprint.

Shkval can't carry a sonar because that metal pipe goes all the way to the rocket. The front is a water intake. You don't need it because presumably you have some kind of throttleable liquid-fuel motor. The fins are actually cavity contact sensors, they'd probably more accurately be called skids. You'd have to have a vectored thrust nozzle, steerable nose or both.

Something vaguely like this?

The forward sketched cone would be gimballed for steering. There'd be a gas generator ring around the edge, with the sonar in the forward portion of the cone. The aft thrust nozzle assembly would probably be redrawn as well. Not sure how large the cavitator would need to be, or if any other changes would be required.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

The best bet is a steerable conical cavitator large enough to hold a sonar. The torpedo could use it to maneuver during the terminal phase and keep itself in the bubble during the sprint.

Shkval can't carry a sonar because that metal pipe goes all the way to the rocket. The front is a water intake. You don't need it because presumably you have some kind of throttleable liquid-fuel motor. The fins are actually cavity contact sensors, they'd probably more accurately be called skids. You'd have to have a vectored thrust nozzle, steerable nose or both.

I thought active sonar couldn't see through the supercavitating bubble? And the diagram of the US navy concept for a supercavitating torpedo has a thrust vectoring nozzle. I'm not sure what the "pneumatic hover skirt" system is though. The sonar is built into the steerable cavitator on the nose, I'm not sure how that would work though. The sonar also doesn't look like it would be that big.

[The Akasha Colony]

The best bet is a steerable conical cavitator large enough to hold a sonar. The torpedo could use it to maneuver during the terminal phase and keep itself in the bubble during the sprint.

Shkval can't carry a sonar because that metal pipe goes all the way to the rocket. The front is a water intake. You don't need it because presumably you have some kind of throttleable liquid-fuel motor. The fins are actually cavity contact sensors, they'd probably more accurately be called skids. You'd have to have a vectored thrust nozzle, steerable nose or both.

I thought active sonar couldn't see through the supercavitating bubble? And the diagram of the US navy concept for a supercavitating torpedo has a thrust vectoring nozzle. I'm not sure what the "pneumatic hover skirt" system is though. The sonar is built into the steerable cavitator on the nose, I'm not sure how that would work though. The sonar also doesn't look like it would be that big.

I believe the goal is to put the sonar ahead of the gas generator ring, so it would actually be in contact with the water while everything else behind it is sheathed in the bubble. It would increase drag over a nose tip generator like Shkval, but I don't think it can really be avoided. The sonar would likely be of limited (if any) use while at supercavitating speed anyway due to flow noise.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

I believe the goal is to put the sonar ahead of the gas generator ring, so it would actually be in contact with the water while everything else behind it is sheathed in the bubble. It would increase drag over a nose tip generator like Shkval, but I don't think it can really be avoided.

The sonar aperture would have to be made pretty small though to minimize drag.

Is there maybe a way you could make it wire guided?

[The Akasha Colony]

The sonar aperture would have to be made pretty small though to minimize drag.

Yes, but I don't imagine a supercavitating torpedo is the type that will require a large search basket or extended search capability. You fire it when you know you have the target in your sights and need it dead fast, presumably at relatively short range. And the speed of the torpedo ensures the target won't wander far by the time it arrives. And if it tries to flee, it will be very noisy.

Is there maybe a way you could make it wire guided?

Making a sufficiently survivable wire given the speeds, method of propulsion, and potential range involved would be quite the feat. Wire-guided missiles use side-mounted thrusters for propulsion and have to deal with much less drag.

[Triplebaconation]

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Yes, but I don't imagine a supercavitating torpedo is the type that will require a large search basket or extended search capability. You fire it when you know you have the target in your sights and need it dead fast, presumably at relatively short range. And the speed of the torpedo ensures the target won't wander far by the time it arrives. And if it tries to flee, it will be very noisy.

Yeah I guess since the torpedo is so fast depending on the range you could fire it purely using inertial guidance and probably get a hit, especially against a large surface combatant or carrier. I guess the active sonar would be for minor course corrections or to be sure you hit the ship in a more precise place to maximize the damage.

Making a sufficiently survivable wire given the speeds, method of propulsion, and potential range involved would be quite the feat. Wire-guided missiles use side-mounted thrusters for propulsion and have to deal with much less drag.

I guess you could have a ring of thrusters around the aft section and have the wire emitted from the center, although I don't know how it would survive the exhaust. If you could somehow get it to work it would be pretty neat because you could remove the active sonar from the front of the steerable cavitator and use the subs sonar to guide it instead.

[The Akasha Colony]

Top outline is based on that image. Is there still a need for the cavity contact sensors?

[Triplebaconation]

They're not strictly necessarily but have a number of advantages.



You have to have some kind of sensor to tell you how to adjust the cavitator. Presumably this control rod is connected to the fins. They also provide lift and minimize tail-slapping.

[Allanea]

the problem you have is youre basing "PMT" on a bunch of old documents that are years or decades old

nsd did this and died doing what it loved

dont repeat the mistakes of the past

If it died doing what it loved, it's not a mistake.

[The Soodean Imperium]

I already know how I'm launching them. I already drew the submarine nearly a year ago. There are two large ventral deployment silos specifically for UUVs and such, and a large dedicated UUV docking space aft of the "sail." Some of the eight dorsal silos could also be used for the role if not being used for cruise missiles.

This submarine image gives me a question.

Why are hull numbers rarely painted on submarines anymore, despite being nearly universal on surface combatants? Is it something to do with preventing the enemy from tracking and identifying your submarines while they're in port? If so, why isn't this a concern for, say, destroyers and frigates? If I were to go back to painting white hull numbers on my submarines' sails, would this bring any disadvantages regarding intelligence or detection?

It's PMT because nobody has ever really built it full scale and it's never entered service.

My PMT armored force is composed entirely of Da Vinci's circular wooden cannon tanks.

PMT is like railguns and lazors on everything with infantry charging with exosuits covered by scramjet powered close air support aircraft.

Functionally speaking PMT is just a brand of FanT in which "because rule of cool and magic" is replaced with "because rule of cool and futuristic technology/infinite budgets/buzzword materials."

I don't know what the near future will look like, but personally I'd bet on incremental improvements to existing designs rather than a wholesale adoption of prototypes and concept demonstrators from the '80s and '90s. At any rate the legendary PMT rollout date of 2025 is less than 9 years away and I still don't see any evidence that there will soon be a massive proliferation of battle mecha and helghast clones.

[Allanea]

We don't live in the NS multiverse, at least as far as any of us knows.

[Pharthan]

We don't live in the NS multiverse, at least as far as any of us knows.

As only two nuclear warheads have been used in warfare and there are no warships anywhere near 1km long, this is true.