Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Yukonastan]

SSKs are a better investment for carrier killing than FACs.

Battleships are queens of the sea. Carriers are the king.

So... modern times battleships?

No. NO NO NO NO NO.

Battleships as most people envision them are obsolete. Sure, make a heavy guided missile cruiser with two cannons on it (instead of 1), along with a large load of VLS cells, and call it a battleship, but don't think that classic battleships are any good.*
*Well, besides shore bombardment and looking cool in propaganda films, that is.

[Yukonastan]

How many cruise missile sized targets (or decoys appearing to be the former) will saturate a single (Phalanx) CIWS turret long enough to let a real cruise missile slip in unharmed?

Judging by the historical record, two reverse-engineered copies of thirty year old missile with minimal guidance and no evasive, signature reduction, or self-defence capabilities should be enough provoke the Phalanx to ignore both and shoot at countermeasures launched by neighbouring friendly ships.

You have a sauce?

[Yukonastan]

You have a sauce?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jarrett_%28FFG-33%29

Thanks. That's some delicious sauce.

[Yukonastan]

So I decided to into a cruiser, anno 2015. Anything blatantly wrong?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1978 – 1995
In service: From 1985
Planned: 12
Completed: 12
Cancelled: 0
Active: 8 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Heavy guided missile cruiser/battlecruiser
Displacement: 19 500 tons standard, 25 000 (full load)
Length: 220 m
Beam: 25 m
Draft: 7 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 2x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
120,000 shp (86,000 kW)
Speed: 37 knots (68 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 650

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 6 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 2x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers, 128 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 96x VLS cells (400x400 mm, 14 m long), two batteries. 192 reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 64 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 256 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 12x 14.5 mm machine guns, 180 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm ASW torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 250 mm ASW rocket launchers, 48 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 2 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

[Yukonastan]

So I decided to into a cruiser, anno 2015. Anything blatantly wrong?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1978 – 1995
In service: From 1985
Planned: 12
Completed: 12
Cancelled: 0
Active: 8 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Heavy guided missile cruiser/battlecruiser
Displacement: 19 500 tons standard, 25 000 (full load)
Length: 220 m
Beam: 25 m
Draft: 7 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 2x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
120,000 shp (86,000 kW)
Speed: 37 knots (68 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 650

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 6 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 2x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers, 128 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 96x VLS cells (400x400 mm, 14 m long), two batteries. 192 reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 64 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 256 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 12x 14.5 mm machine guns, 180 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm ASW torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 250 mm ASW rocket launchers, 48 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 2 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

192 reloads for a VLS? A whopping 37 knots (what are you running the ship on? Zero Point Modules?)? Also why is the light torpedo launcher used for rockets while the bigger one is used for torpedoes?

Well, they *are* my fleets' heaviest ships. I'd prefer for 'em to be ass-deep in missiles, and I may have misworded that. I consider one reload to be loaded. And with 92 launchers, that's 92 shots ready to go.

As for propulsion, that's burst speed with two gas turbines and the two reactors working together, obviously cruise speed is far lower. I may or may not bullshit something about the exhaust from the gas turbines being discharged under the keel to lubricate the hull, like what supercavitation does.

As for the torp tubes and ASuW rockets, that's very similar to the average Kirov's torpedo fit. 500mm torpedos 'cause large warheads yo.

Edit: 250mm ASuW rockets is pretty anemic. Will be fixing.

[Yukonastan]

Ah, thanks so far. Thought that I had enough SHP available to get a sprint speed of 37, but evidently not. 32's reasonable, though, right?

As for VLS: I did some reading up, but I wasn't able to post an update on 'em.

They're not rotary systems, they're not fourteen metres long [more like 8 counting support equipment], and yes, can be reloaded at sea. If the sea is calm enough. The VLSes are angled 15° or so from the vertical, and a cart is capable of locking onto two lugs by each launch door. The old missile canister is lifted out, then a crane angles the new missile into position, after which it's slid down. Impractical, but fun anyway.

While on length and propulsion: It's more akin to a battlecruiser and it's intended to be the biggest ship in my fleet. (Since I don't into aircraft carriers. lel.) And maybe I just don't trust my reactors ICly either.

As for point defense AS(u) weapons, again because it's a flag ship and because in a way it's hilariously impractical.

[Yukonastan]

They're not rotary systems, they're not fourteen metres long [more like 8 counting support equipment], and yes, can be reloaded at sea. If the sea is calm enough. The VLSes are angled 15° or so from the vertical, and a cart is capable of locking onto two lugs by each launch door. The old missile canister is lifted out, then a crane angles the new missile into position, after which it's slid down. Impractical, but fun anyway.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to describe here... is this the procedure for reloading the entire system, or simply for reloading every time a missile is fired? Because if it's the latter, you've taken all the disadvantages of a twin-arm launcher and made them worse without gaining any of the advantages associated with a VLS (except possibly that you don't need to traverse it).

It's not a twin-arm automatic system. Reloading takes time. It's a crane and a hand cart that locks onto two lugs at the mouth of the launcher.
it's not supposed to be practical

[Yukonastan]

OOC it's a "It's stupid 'cause I want it to be somewhat impractical" idea. IC it's a "20/20 hindsight" idea.

But the below deck infrastructure isn't the same, at least if I understand it right. There's prepackaged VLS reloads in a magazine slash bomb farm. A crane in the magazine puts those reloads onto carts. Sailors push the carts toward the VLS cells, where the carts latch on.

A crane has, by then, already removed the fired cell from the launch tube.

The same crane lifts the missile and cart skyward, after which the missile is slid into the launch tube.

Totally not automated, unlike a twinarm.

[Yukonastan]

OOC it's a "It's stupid 'cause I want it to be somewhat impractical" idea. IC it's a "20/20 hindsight" idea.

But the below deck infrastructure isn't the same, at least if I understand it right. There's prepackaged VLS reloads in a magazine slash bomb farm. A crane in the magazine puts those reloads onto carts. Sailors push the carts toward the VLS cells, where the carts latch on.

A crane has, by then, already removed the fired cell from the launch tube.

The same crane lifts the missile and cart skyward, after which the missile is slid into the launch tube.

Totally not automated, unlike a twinarm.

I assume what you mean is that there are 96 missiles ready to fire in the VLS, and that you can reload it once those have been expended. Exactly like normal VLS, except that these can be reloaded at sea.

This guy gets it.

[Yukonastan]

Judging by the historical record, two reverse-engineered copies of thirty year old missile with minimal guidance and no evasive, signature reduction, or self-defence capabilities should be enough provoke the Phalanx to ignore both and shoot at countermeasures launched by neighbouring friendly ships.

Judging by historical record, the Phalanx does a pretty bang up job when it isn't be maintained by retards. The Combat Systems guys are pretty intelligent and require a high ASVAB...
... Gunner's Mates do not.

Judging by historical record, a 30mm CIWS is much more likely to destroy incoming targets rather than just deflect them. obvious bias towards goalkeeper 'cause dutchnology

Then again, anything works better if it's maintained by people with an IQ greater than twelve.

[Yukonastan]

Then again, anything works better if it's maintained by people with an IQ greater than twelve.

Hence why Phalanx has a horrible record of jamming. And why I hate Navy Recruiters who "coach" recruits who are so dumb it's surprising they can breathe.

Just let the zoomie armorers deal with the thing. They use the same gun in the Hornets, after all.

[Yukonastan]

Just let the zoomie armorers deal with the thing. They use the same gun in the Hornets, after all.

>.>
You seem to be under the impression they are any better.
They, as a matter of fact are not.
Source: I have to eat in the vicinity of them in the galley every day.
Nothing is more MilReal than finding out on a daily basis there are dumber people on the face of this planet than you ever imagined possible.
I'm sure I've ranted about Aviation Ordnancemen enough. Gunner's Mates are genius's by comparison.

The only thing that makes me satisfied that America is still the most powerful military on the face of the planet is the stories from the militaries from other nations is that they are either on par or worse. That, and the Aviation Ordnancemen don't actually activate the bombs and missiles. I've met the guys that do that. They are at least average intelligence. AO's and GMs are little more than glorified janitors and human forklifts. Or at least AOs. Not as sure about GMs.

Hey hey hey, do I sense a little "inter-service" rivalry? Just because they load planes?

Naw, jk. Smart people know enough to avoid the military, and if they're smart but not smart enough to do that, they get a commission. Or they become warrant officers.

---

2 reactors and combined propulsion. You only need one reactor and zero gas turbines. The Kirov used combined propulsion because the Russians didn't trust their reactors.

I'm glad my car has a turbocharger. I don't really trust the engine.

Unlike a turbocharger on an engine, a gas turbine on a nuclear-powered ship can (in cases of emergency) get the ship moving with at least some measure of speed. Your comparison is, therefore, not entirely valid.

[Yukonastan]

Unlike a turbocharger on an engine, a gas turbine on a nuclear-powered ship can (in cases of emergency) get the ship moving with at least some measure of speed. Your comparison is, therefore, not entirely valid.

It's entirely valid. If your reactor doesn't work properly, you should fix that first before trying to cram a gas turbine in there. Who's to say the gas turbine is any more reliable?

I was returning Tbn's snark right back at him.

Kirov doesn't have boilers because the Russians didn't trust their reactors. After all, they trusted them quite a bit in their submarines, which didn't have backup boilers. And the Russians built those by the dozens. Kirov has boilers because they allow the plant to be more compact. A reactor plant large enough to supply the full power for flank speed would be even larger than the one already used, taking up even more space and requiring an even larger and more expensive ship. Given that the Soviets weren't going to be sending Kirov on round-the-world combat tours and she would be mostly limited to the Soviet bastion seas, why would she need indefinite sprint speed? Using a combined plant allowed for a smaller powerplant and ship at a lower cost, while still retaining enough sprint capability to cover the areas she was expected to reach.

But this is irrelevant for you if you want to use it for expeditionary purposes, where sustained sprint capability may be required. Which is why comparable American ships (carriers, plus the nuclear cruisers) had nuclear plants that could keep them at sprint speeds for much longer periods, as they expected to possibly be deploying quite far with a need to get there quite quickly.

Thanks for the information; reason for having reactors and turbines retconned. Remember that I'm a neutral nation (generally), so any expeditionary use is secondary to its defensive use.

OOC it's a "It's stupid 'cause I want it to be somewhat impractical" idea. IC it's a "20/20 hindsight" idea.

But the below deck infrastructure isn't the same, at least if I understand it right. There's prepackaged VLS reloads in a magazine slash bomb farm. A crane in the magazine puts those reloads onto carts. Sailors push the carts toward the VLS cells, where the carts latch on.

A crane has, by then, already removed the fired cell from the launch tube.

The same crane lifts the missile and cart skyward, after which the missile is slid into the launch tube.

Totally not automated, unlike a twinarm.

If a bunch of armchair admirals on an internet forum can point out the flaws, then it's neither "20/20 hindsight" nor "somewhat impractical." It's something any competent ship designer or oversight committee member would catch. This is willful design ignorance, for no real purpose.

It's a cruiser designed in 1975, it's been through a refit once already, and is in the latter half of its service life. Back when the VLSes were installed (during the refit), shiny things like at-sea reload capability were nice and flashy. Generals were easy to convince. The bomb farm was already there. Whatever reason. Besides, can't a bunch of armchair admirals on an internet forum point out flaws with any real weapon systems, that competent ship designers or oversight committees didn't catch until said systems were put into use? Was that willful design ignorance for no real purpose?
I don't want it to be perfect. I want it to be good, but to have at least a few flaws. Like any *real* naval ship. Nothing's perfect.
No hostility intended.

[Yukonastan]

http://redkalinka.com/Russian-Blog/78/_The-day-Pepsi-became-a-great-military-power/

Not a warship per se, but I thought that you guys would get a kick out of this.

heh, it's unique. Most powerful private navy ever, even though it's inadvertent?

[Yukonastan]

Alright, cruiser mark II. A few small tweaks, anything else that needs fixing?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1978 – 1995
In service: From 1985
Planned: 12
Completed: 12
Cancelled: 0
Active: 8 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Heavy guided missile cruiser/battlecruiser
Displacement: 19 500 tons standard, 25 000 (full load)
Length: 220 m
Beam: 25 m
Draft: 7 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 2x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
120,000 shp (86,000 kW)
Speed: 32knots (59 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 650

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 6 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 2x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers, 128 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 128x angled VLS cells (500x500 mm, 7m long), two large and two small batteries. No reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 64 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 256 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 12x 14.5 mm machine guns, 180 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm AS(u)W torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 425 mm AS(u)W rocket launchers, 48 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 2 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

[Yukonastan]

So would the Coke executives buy their own ships from Europe or something in response?

America, duh.

Interesting fact: Coca-Cola was imported into the Soviet Union, but disguised, at the request of Marshal Zhukov. It had no colouring in it, so it didn't look American.

[Yukonastan]

Alright, cruiser mark II. A few small tweaks, anything else that needs fixing?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1978 – 1995
In service: From 1985
Planned: 12
Completed: 12
Cancelled: 0
Active: 8 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Heavy guided missile cruiser/battlecruiser
Displacement: 19 500 tons standard, 25 000 (full load)
Length: 220 m
Beam: 25 m
Draft: 7 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 2x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
120,000 shp (86,000 kW)
Speed: 32knots (59 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 650

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 6 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 2x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers, 128 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 128x angled VLS cells (500x500 mm, 7m long), two large and two small batteries. No reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 64 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 256 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 12x 14.5 mm machine guns, 180 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm AS(u)W torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 425 mm AS(u)W rocket launchers, 48 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 2 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

This has gone without replies for a while, going to assume it's good.

---

Quite the complement on that Legend, Roski. I'd push it up quite a bit, especially as the Gerald R Ford is quite automated. I'd go with 5200 something crew, counting the air wing.

[Yukonastan]

This has gone without replies for a while, going to assume it's good.

I'd personally like a bit more power if it's going to do 32 knots consistently, also at 60,000 hp per shaft you're quite close at their limits according to my hearsay sources.

32 kts is sprint speed. Cruise is 20 kts. As for the shafts, the Kirov (which I ripped off for this) has higher SHP.

[Yukonastan]

Because it'd be absolutely stupid to just cram reactors meant for submarines into an aircraft carrier. AKA USS Enterprise.
Common reactor designs are dumb.
Similar reactor designs are awesome.

Heh, US shouldnt've converted it from an oil-fired design during construction. Oh the things learned on the first of a new type of ship.

---

Decided to make some escort vessels. Comments on it?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1982 – 2001
In service: From 1985
Planned: 40
Completed: 36
Cancelled: 4
Active: 32 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Guided missile / torpedo destroyer
Displacement: 12 500 tons standard, 16 500 tons (full load)
Length: 140 m
Beam: 20 m
Draft: 5.25 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 1x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
80,000 shp (57,000 kW)
Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 325

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 4 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 1x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers,96 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 64x angled VLS cells (500x500 mm, 7m long), two large and two small batteries. No reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 32 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 192 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 8x 14.5 mm machine guns, 120 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm AS(u)W torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 425 mm AS(u)W rocket launchers, 36 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 1 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

[Yukonastan]

Heh, US shouldnt've converted it from an oil-fired design during construction. Oh the things learned on the first of a new type of ship.

The Enterprise was designed around nuclear propulsion from the start. The reactors used the same cores as Long Beach, but where slightly smaller. Eight wasn't seen as particularly desirable, but the various 2- and 4-reactor alternatives studied simply couldn't meet Navy requirements for speed, operational intensity, and underwater protection with mid-50s output levels.

Ah, misread. Thought the Big E was converted during construction, the wikipedia article is kind of ambiguous about that.

[Yukonastan]

[em]

Decided to make some escort vessels. Comments on it?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1982 – 2001
In service: From 1985
Planned: 40
Completed: 36
Cancelled: 4
Active: 32 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Guided missile / torpedo destroyer
Displacement: 12 500 tons standard, 16 500 tons (full load)
Length: 140 m
Beam: 20 m
Draft: 5.25 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 1x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
80,000 shp (57,000 kW)
Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 325

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 4 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 1x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers,96 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 64x angled VLS cells (500x500 mm, 7m long), two large and two small batteries. No reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 32 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 192 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 8x 14.5 mm machine guns, 120 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm AS(u)W torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 425 mm AS(u)W rocket launchers, 36 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 1 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

[/em]

[Yukonastan]

[em][/em]

The best rule of thumb that I've come across in NS is that if you're not replied too, that means your design was so shit it's not worth everyone else's time, or that it had no glaring flaw's whatsoever and the rest of NS can't be mean to you.

I feel like this design falls into the second category.

Thanks. But there's things wrong with it. Gotta be. I just SWAG'd the numbers. Might just be that this thread is inactive as I don't know what.

[Yukonastan]

[em][/em]

Zumwalt is larger and carries fewer rounds per 155 mm gun, but this isn't really a problem. The crew is probably a bit light for a nuclear warship though.

Eh, that's the Zumwalt's decision to make. Personally, I like guns. They're useful for shore bombardment and they look impressive, y'know.

So what'd be a better compliment for something this size? 400-ish?

[Yukonastan]

Thanks. But there's things wrong with it. Gotta be. I just SWAG'd the numbers. Might just be that this thread is inactive as I don't know what.

1. The first operational Mark 41 VLS didn't enter service until 1984, stands to reason your nation's version of a VLS would enter service within a similar time frame.
2. The Length you specify doesn't chive given the displacement and armament you've outlined, by comparison a Virginia Class Destroyer Leader/Cruiser was 179 meters with a full load displacement of 11,666 tons.
3. Sorry I don't know how to put this nicely, but utilizing both gas turbines and nuclear power is just stupid. Pick one, hint using gas turbines will reduced the per unit cost of each vessel between within 100 to 200 million. However, nuclear was popular not just for unlimited range, but also that it allowed the vessels to keep pace with the nuclear carriers.
4. Your complement is short by at least two hundred {200} people. Nuclear vessels required additional personnel. Again See Virginia Comparison.
5. 6in gun seems odd to me considering most RL navies at this time are 5, various 4in or 3in. US Navy did design a rapid fire 8in though, something to consider.
6. Good luck with your design...

A) Successfully SWAGged it!

B) Will review.

C) But my cruisers (my fleet's largest ships as I have no carriers yet) also use CONAG. Gas is backup and burst use only, 95% of the time the ship burns HEU. Besides, with the size of my fleet vs my defense budget, I can afford (and need to afford) such splurgery. I can't field many ships, so the ones I have need to be well-armed and well-powered.

D) Noted. Complement of 525 people now on board.

E) The gun and ammo are compatible with those of 155 SPGs. Yes, that's a rapid-fire bag charged cannon.

F) Thank you, I'll need it.

Decided to make some escort vessels. Comments on it?

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1982 – 2001
In service: From 1985
Planned: 40
Completed: 36
Cancelled: 4
Active: 32 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Guided missile / torpedo destroyer
Displacement: 12 500 tons standard, 16 500 tons (full load)
Length: 140 m
Beam: 20 m
Draft: 5.25 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 1x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
80,000 shp (57,000 kW)
Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 325

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 4 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 1x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers,96 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 64x angled VLS cells (500x500 mm, 7m long), two large and two small batteries. No reloads carried.
• 8x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 32 reloads carried.
• 2x 32-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 192 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 8x 14.5 mm machine guns, 120 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm AS(u)W torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 425 mm AS(u)W rocket launchers, 36 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 1 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck

The missile armament also seems unusually heavy - not the VLS cells, which are okay, but I don't see where you're fitting eight mid-range SAM launchers with 32 reloads, to speak nothing of the two 32-cell point-defense missile launchers and 192 reloads or the dozens of torpedoes, on a 140-meter-long vessel (while still leaving room for crew, stores, and electronics). Is there a reason why you can't quadpack lighter SAMs into the VLS cells?

Also: I can understand how this might sound a bit nitpicky, but when you feed those dimensions into the Ship Displacement Formula, you end up with a Block Coefficient of 0.85, which is a level of bulkiness you'd expect from an Oil Tanker - and that's when treating all numbers as waterline dimensions. If 140m is length overall, it's possible you would have a Block Coefficient of greater than 1, which I don't believe is possible (Block Coefficient of 1 means the submerged mass is a perfect rectangular prism). For a modern frigate, you're looking at a block coefficient somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.5, maybe 0.6 for a wide AEGIS destroyer.

The mid-range SAMs are like Iron Dome, if smaller launchers. Dropping it to two thrrets, each with four launch rails. The two point-defense missile launchers could indeed be half the size, with half the reserve. If not even a bit smaller. Two 12-cell RIM-116 RAM clone launchers with 96 reloads = moar reasonable amirite?

My displacement right now is 12500 baseline, I expect that 8250 baseline and 10500 full load are more reasonable, and give better block coefficients, despite being a tad high?

[Yukonastan]

C) But my cruisers (my fleet's largest ships as I have no carriers yet) also use CONAG. Gas is backup and burst use only, 95% of the time the ship burns HEU. Besides, with the size of my fleet vs my defense budget, I can afford (and need to afford) such splurgery. I can't field many ships, so the ones I have need to be well-armed and well-powered.

When you're talking burst speed, it doesn't save you much. A larger reactor will net you a bit more top speed than a CONAG system. Once the reactor gets set up for operating at higher output, it gets it's own "burst" speed, anyway. For the distances we're dealing with, CONAG burst speed shouldn't be critical.

The one real advantage of CONAG: You can go from twiddling your thumbs and getting totally wasted on local booze in port and suddenly need to up-and-go and have the entire boat out in 30 minutes. Not possible with an all-nuclear plant. Those take a while to get ready.

If you want a backup, add a large battery. Requires almost no additional people other than the already on board electricians to maintain it.

D) Noted. Complement of 525 people now on board.

Reactors don't require that many more people. Virginia was also older than, by comparison, a Tic. Not nearly as much automation.
Modern reactors require a significantly smaller crew complement than the days of the Virginia-cruiser. Compare it to the newer Virginia sub, for instance.

So, yes, while you will need more people, we're talking about expanding the Engineering department by at most 100 people. Maybe, maybe 140. Not 200. At minimum 40, since you're likely using an Aircraft Carrier plant if it's the only thing powering a cruiser.

Heh. IC reasons are amazing, and I don't have any aircraft carriers to require aircraft carrier plants. CONAG just worked out, despite its inherent disadvantages. Plus the get-up-to-speed-while-starting-the-reactor is a good bonus to have. Didn't even know that. Also remember that the gas turbines provide electricity when the reactor is hot idling (aka when it's in ports without sufficient ground power), and remember that the shafts have steam turbines connected to the reactors, then gearboxes and clutches to the gas turbines.

As for batteries, about half the ships have been refueled and the battery technology hadn't *really* advanced beyond what's common for large storage batteries. Perhaps for the next generation.

As for crew, people are yelling at me that 325 is far too little, now the navy guy says that 525 is far too much. 425 better, then? 425 it is.

Thanks everyone! Patrol destroyer/frigate Mk III:

Class overview
Builders: Krupper-Thyssen Shipyards
Operators: Yukonastan Defense Force Navy, Yukonastan Expeditionary Force Navy
Built: 1982 – 2001
In service: From 1985
Planned: 40
Completed: 36
Cancelled: 4
Active: 32 (1 undergoing modernization)
Laid up: 1
Retired: 2

General characteristics
Type: Guided missile / torpedo destroyer
Displacement: 8 250 tons standard, 12 500 tons (full load)
Length: 140 m
Beam: 20 m
Draft: 5.25 m
Propulsion: 2-shaft combined nuclear and gas turbine propulsion, 1x MN-2 marine nuclear reactors with 2x gas turbine engines
80,000 shp (57,000 kW)
Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 32 knots (59 km/h) (combined propulsion),
unlimited at 20 knots (37 km/h) on nuclear power
Complement: 425

Sensors and processing systems:
Radars:

• 1x 4 MW combat system radar, bridge structure.
• 1x 3D tracking radar, foremast.
• 1x navigation radar, foremast.

Sonar:

• 1x towed array sonar, 2km line, stern.
• 1x bow sonar

Electronic warfare and decoys:

• 2x 8rd decoy launchers,96 reloads carried.
• 1x 4MW radar jammer/spoofer, rear mast.

Armament:
Missiles:

• 64x angled VLS cells (500x500 mm, 7m long), two large and two small batteries. No reloads carried.
• 2x mid-range SAM launchers (250x250 mm, 5 m long), two batteries. 32 reloads carried.
• 2x 12-cell mid-range point defense missile launchers, 96 reloads carried.

Guns:

• 1x quick-fire 155 mm high velocity howitzer, 500 rounds carried.
• 2x Close-In Weapons Systems, 24 mm rotary cannon, 12 000 rounds carried.
• 8x 14.5 mm machine guns, 120 000 rounds carried.

Torpedoes and others:

• 2x 500 mm AS(u)W torpedo launchers, 24 reloads carried.
• 4x 425 mm AS(u)W rocket launchers, 36 reloads carried.

Armour: 100 mm plating around reactor compartment, 50mm plating around CIC, light splinter protection
Aircraft carried: 2 helicopters, space for 1 more on deck.
Aviation facilities: Hangar on deck