Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I know Taiwanese FRAM II Gearings were upgraded to carry what was called the Wu Chin III system which included as a package DA-08, more modern EW systems, STIR 180, Hsiung Feng II AShM's, Phalanx, Oto 76 mm, the L/70 40 mm Bofors, and 10 SM-1's in boxes, and as far as I know only their Gearings carried the Wu Chin III, none of their Fletchers and none of their Sumners. This has to be ofc considered in context where the Taiwanese just couldn't get new build warships from anybody else until the late 90's, but something akin to Wu Chin III is probably the farthest you can go with WWII hulls.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

([url=http://iiwiki.com/images/thumb/0/0f/MMS_Admiral_Yachisai.png/800px-MMS_Admiral_Yachisai.png]Image)[/url]

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Admiral_Yachisai_class_cruiser

Started redoing my post-1964 ship classes (or in this case finishing ones that were formerly vague statblocks)

At this rate i expect to be finished by never

:( :( :(

Looks cool so far, I think.
That thing behind the turret and what I would call a RAM, is that an arm launcher? From which time and for which purposes is that ship?

It looks like a Kresta equivalent, the "RAM" thing is an RBU.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Forgive my inability to ship for a moment I beg, while I try to get my head around the workings of a naval vessel. Fundamentally, as in NSMRC, I want to produce a heavy assault ship to act as focal point for anti-slavery and anti-piracy actions of a type unseen anywhere since the 18th century except for NS. San- (otoh Husseinarti is San Silvacian?) has put forward Pulver's Heavy Assault Ship modification of the USS Iowa as an IRL example (flight capabilities, nearly 2,000 embarked marines, and massive amounts of naval gunnery), and while I won't be using an Iowa ship as a base, it will likely be something very similar in concept.

Regardless, I now need to understand how ships' crews are organised. The following is how I envisage the organisation of this ship's crew to go, and I hope someone knowledgeable about it can point out the flaws.

• Command Department - Headed by the Captain (Captain) and Executive Officer (Commander), this department of the ship is like the headquarters company of an infantry battalion - it has the medics, the provost, training, chaplaincy and signals elements of the crew.
• Gunnery Department - Headed by the Gunnery Officer (Lieutenant Commander), this might be called the Warfare Department, and is responsible for operating the ship's weapons systems and sensors.
• Weapons Engineering Department - Headed by... the Weapons Engineering Officer(Lieutenant Commander)? This is responsible for maintaining the above.
• Maintenance Department - Headed by the ship's Handiman (Lieutenant Commander), this one's responsible for maintaining everything else.
• Logistics Department - Headed a Logistics Officer (Lieutenant Commander) this one is responsible for supply for the ship.
• Reactor Department (not sure if this would be included in the maintenance department - this one is headed by another Lieutenant Commander, and is responsible for maintaining the ship's nuclear reactor.
• Air Warfare Department - Headed by a Lieutenant Commander, it's responsible for aviation engineering and maintenance, and also for manning the vessel's helicopters.
• Land Warfare Department - Headed by a Lieutenant Colonel/Commander, it consists of all the embarked marines etc. (which will be quite sizeable considering the role), and is responsible for planning and carrying out all boarding and shore actions.

I don't really know what an operations officer is or what he does tho...

Does this sound right? Should anyone be demoted or promoted (bearing in mind this is for a vessel probably about the size of a small aircraft carrier or an amphibious assault ship)? Are there any areas I've forgotten?

Are you fighting non-state actor slavers with superdreadnought battleships?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Are you fighting non-state actor slavers with superdreadnought battleships?

Well, as you've read both of my posts, you know the answer to that already.

K. Start tossing heavy antiship missiles at it then and mount a million man invasion. You're never gonna defeat slavery by an half-hearted show of force by a single 50,000 ton vessel anyway.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Are those depth charge racks on the stern?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Are those depth charge racks on the stern?

Yup.

Stern mounted racks are both inferior to the RBU mortars you got errywhere on the ship and redundant when you got them. Maybe you could use them for naval mines but putting yourself right above an enemy diesel-electric to use your depth charges is just asking for a torpedo shoved up yours. :3

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Working on my naval factbook

Ministry of the Sjovene Navy

Why are your subs of NATO standard while the rest of your navy is Russian standard?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

An Astute with SLBM's is just an Vanguard.
Baltic submarines like the 212 aren't good anywhere beyond archipelagoes or close to shore. Their ocean-going capability is severely ???, like the rest of the German Navy lineup in WWII. Your equipment all come from countires with vastly different intentions for all of them. The Kuznetsovs for example is not designed or equipped to fight expeditionary wars on the high seas because the Soviets intended for them to defend their naval bastion of SSBN's in the Barents Sea.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

An Astute with SLBM's is just an Vanguard.
Baltic submarines like the 212 aren't good anywhere beyond archipelagoes or close to shore. Their ocean-going capability is severely ???, like the rest of the German Navy lineup in WWII. Your equipment all come from countires with vastly different intentions for all of them. The Kuznetsovs for example is not designed or equipped to fight expeditionary wars on the high seas because the Soviets intended for them to defend their naval bastion of SSBN's in the Barents Sea.

Vanguard is US right? (Nevermind)

So Vanguard would be a better option for an Astute?

If you want the submarine launched ballistic missile capability yes. But since you operate coastal subs like the 212 SSBN capability becomes an oxymoron.
Vanguard-class is British.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Then you fire on a nation that has done nothing to you aside from some good gentlemanly saber rattling.

Then when the ash has settled Freedom 2.0 Alliance comes and stomps on whatever is left and establishes a puppet government.

I mean if somebody did that to me in an RP I probably just hop on the OOC thread and be like "come on man".

Nukes are sort of frowned upon in most RPs anyway.

Only time nukes have been involved in an RP I was in was when some tinpot dictator was throwing around mustard gas like it was candy (mostly at civilians) and I threatened to nuke him into oblivion if he tried to gas my troops.

People on the OOC thread were like "come on man, it's just a little bit of gas, what's the big deal?"

>blistering agents
>responds with nuclear annihilation
O tempora o mores.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

nukes are an essential part of the modern world

not having nukes is like not having automobiles

or using trapdoor springfield instead of m16

Yeah and then you become the proverbial Catilina in the OOC-thread for kicking over somebody's sandcastle. :3

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Executive Curls, yea or nah?

*rings the Oale-bell*

[Automagfreek]

The pinnacle of Freekish naval engineering, the 'Dreadfire' class Super dreadnought.

Picture

Name: Dreadfire Class
Type: Command Battleship (Super Dreadnought)

Dimensions: 1300M L x 275M W
Displacement (Fully Loaded): 4,250,000 Tons
Powerplants: 15 Pebblebed Nuclear reactors, total output of 4-5 GW
Propulsion Arrangement: 12 Heavy Waterjets. Bow thrusters and Azipod maneuvering thrusters for docking
Speed: 24 kts (cruising), 29kts (conventional top speed), 32kts (flat out short range sprint)
Endurance: Limited to Nuclear Reactor life, ~15 years. Up to 12 months of stores can be carried

Crew Complement
-Standard: 29,500 (including air group)
-Minimum: 10,250
Marines
-Standard: Space for 8,000 (14,000 in an emergency)

Cargo Capacity
-General Cargo: 35,000 Tons (Dry)
-Troop Equipment: Smalls arms, light vehicles, artillery, attack and cargo helicopters, and STOVL aircraft

Onboard Craft
Boats: Rear well deck for boats, LAV's, LCs and LCACs. Can accommodate up to 20 LCACs in a 4 x 5 arrangement. Fully enclosed when rear ramp is shut

Aviation: One flight deck for helicopter and STOVL takeoff and landing. Two elevators to a two deck hangar, can support ~75 planes and helicopters

Radar:
LR air/surface search (phased array)
SR air/surface
OTH
LADAR (LOS only)

Fire Control:
Fleet Command System
Integrated ship weapons system
Missile control
Gunnery control
Host arrays for multi-link combat systems (such as AEGIS, Freekish Cryocom)

Electronics Warfare:
ECM/ECCM
ATIRCM (Advanced Threat Infrared Countermeasures)
Towed Decoy
EW drones; UAV, UUV

Sonar:
Bow and stern mounted array

Weaponry
-Artillery:
7 main turrets: Triple mounted 30" railguns or 30" ETC conventional cannons
4x 20" railguns
38 x 16" railguns
12x 10" railguns
108x 5" railguns

-Ranged Missiles:
There are 550 armored hatches, each covering 10 next generation vertical launch tubes. These tubes can be reloaded and up to 5 reloads can be carried for each launcher. Total reserve missile carrying capacity is 27,500 AShMs, cruise missiles or similar.

4x launch platforms for ICBM class hypersonic missiles. 60 missile capacity.

-Self-Defence
10 x 6-barrel 30mm CIWS Units
108x Skyscrape extremely long range anti-air missile batteries
488x RAM mounts

-Underwater Warfare
6 x Twin ML 650 mm/12.75 inch MR Torpedo Tubes
20 x ASHUM-style UWSC guns

Armour Type: Second generation ‘Sentinel’ scheme, combining the original Titanium VA/Ballistic Composite layers and lateral TVA rods, also now includes Ablative paneling and reinforced trimodal aluminum plating around sensitive areas. The ship is also outfitted with additional shock absorbers and anti-shatter brackets placed along the frame.

Passive Protection Features:
-Double bottomed hull
-Reinforced, displaced keel
-Extensive firefighting and NBC equipment and filters
-Pressure release systems to reduce missile damage
-Multiple vertical bulkheads
-Ultra-modern damage detection and reporting equipment
-Heavy anti-flooding pumps
-Reserve radar and communication arrays
-Hardened against EMP attack

[Automagfreek]

Seems pretty easy to fuck up.

You must have missed the massive amount of anti-air and underwater defenses it has....

[Automagfreek]

First I hope you realize this is not MT this is at least PMT.
Secondly adding more CIWS and RAM does not actually dramatically increase your survivability.
Third guns (even rail guns) are dramatically out paced by missile tech.
Forth armor won't save the actually useful bits of the warship, nor will they stop a torpedo from breaking your keel.
Fifth planes exist and will happily contribute to its demise because they can launch missiles from outside most of its defenses. The mother ship is certainly still safe.
Sixth this thing is going to be hideously expensive.

You haven't said anything I don't already know. And this ship never travels alone, there are at least 2-3 carrier groups that accompany it, as its primary role is shore bombardment in support of amphibious landings.

[Automagfreek]

So we can shoot it with Tanks?
Suggestion: Go to the mil realism and look back 50 pages or so. A large discussion was held over battleships, with an outcome of battleships can't compete with missiles of all forms.

Uh, I've been here for over 11 years, and have been a member of the NS Draftroom think tank for many years, so I think I know a thing or two about military hardware and their applications. You're not telling me anything I don't already know about missiles versus guns, but if you can't seem to think of a purpose for a ship of this nature, I invite you to try a war with me. I don't think anyone actually read the stats I posted. This ship has almost 600 air defense missile launchers, and 550 VLS tubes for firing cruise missiles and the like for attacking ground targets over the horizon, so it doesn't just rely on guns.

And please, tell me what tank can shoot over 40-60 miles.

[Automagfreek]

Tanks with missiles. Anything with missiles. Lots of missile. Or just two or three of these: DF-21. Chinese Anti-Aircraft Carrier missile

Again, this ship doesn't travel alone, and it's literally surrounded by carrier groups on top of its own escorts. I mean, feel free to concentrate solely on the SD, while the 2,000-3,000 other warships and their associated aircraft wings intercept or jam your missiles and then turn your defenses into ruin.

[Automagfreek]

Uhh big navy ya got there.

It's bigger than that. And nations like Praetonia operate upwards of 12,000 ships, so for those of us that have been around a long time it's not unusual to have large armed forces.

[Automagfreek]

I'm just curious, do you understand what this missile does? It's like a land based rod from god. It gets into the upper atmosphere, turns and goes straight down. The sheer mass of the thing then falls at supersonic speeds and lands on it's target. Even if you "shoot it down" the sheer volume of mass being distributed completely wrecks whatever it hits.

Other ships: Yes, and that just means that we'd need more missiles. And so there would be.

I operate an extremely potent array of EW aircraft and vessels. After I knock your satellites out of orbit, tell me how you'll be able to acquire targets when I jam your remaining EW systems? AWACS will be largely what you'll have to rely on, since OTH does fuck all for locking onto targets. But my aircraft can keep them suppressed.

[Automagfreek]

You're not the only one who has that ability...
Who says you can jam my signals when I make a variant of this Kamikaze style? Or with on-board computers that are given a signature for it to lock onto and stick with it?
Anywho, the missile would still land, and still fuck up your ship.

You still haven't explained how you would acquire the target in a heavy EW environment. Satellites? OTH? AWACS? The missile itself cannot scan hundreds or thousands of miles of ocean and look for a target (a moving one at that), then steer itself into it at terminal phase. It doesn't work that way.

And I don't think you fully read the article on that missile...

Secondly, the missile may not be able to single-handedly destroy its target. The warhead is believed to be enough to inflict a "mission kill" to make a carrier unable to conduct flight operations, while other missiles would follow to actually destroy the ship. Thirdly, there is the problem of finding its target. The DF-21D has a range estimated between 1,035 to 1,726 mi (1,666 to 2,778 km), so a carrier battle group would need to be located through other means before launching. Over-the-horizon radars could detect ships, but their exact locations could be off by miles. Chinese recon satellites would be able to look for and locate a battle group. Recon aircraft and submarines could also look for them, but they are vulnerable to the carrier's defenses. Finally, the missile may have a hard time hitting its target. To hit ships moving at 34 mph (30 kn), the DF-21D has radar and optical sensors for tracking. These are supposed to make it accurate, but the missile has not yet been tested against a moving target, let alone ones at sea against clutter and countermeasures

[Automagfreek]

RandC has been around for a good amount of time and is a member of the Draftroom as well.

You literally made no point here whatsoever, just trying to "Oh hurr i've been here for a decade plus I know stuff little man."

Sadly enough its not about time spent on NS or if you are apart of NSD.

My point was that I don't need to have my intelligence insulted like I've been here a week. I understand the pros and cons of operating a vessel of this size.

I just want to know how you carry reloads for the ship and reload them. Do you have a Soviet style revolver style VLS? Because that makes no sense.

There are the other issues that come from how large this ship is, and how woefully top heavy it is as well, along with the reason of 'why' and 'how'.

But don't let me stomp your free form RPing.

I designed a re-loadable VLS system, but once reserve ordnance is spent it cannot be reloaded at sea. But by that time my infantry will have pushed far enough inland that the ship is no longer needed in the theater.

[Automagfreek]

Obviously you don't because if you did you won't use a ship this size

or you're a big fan of artificial reefs and wish to have your navy contribute

Believe me, I do.

[Automagfreek]

Believe me, I do.

Until you demonstrate it, I'm going to assume that you're just another naval literate NSer who played a little bit to much supreme commander and is now infatuated with the idea of big gun warships in the modern or post modern era despite the fact that they offer only disadvantages on the modern or post modern battlefield.

Modern NS war RP goes like this:

Player A lobs 10,000 missiles at Player B's fleet.
Player B counters with ECW and missiles, then fires 20,000 missiles back and takes his own losses.
Player A counters with his own defensive systems and missiles, then fires 30,000 missiles back and takes his own losses..

And this process is repeated ad nauseam until someone runs out of missiles. Ships equipped with conventional 5" cannons cannot get close enough to support amphibious landings because they will be staring down 500,000 AShM's from the shore. So how would you go about supporting landing operations in a mass missile wank environment? Do you keep throwing endless waves of missiles and aircraft at your opponent, post after post after post in hopes of breaking through, all the meanwhile your infantry are landing with little to no support and are under fire? This is why SD's came into existence in the first place, to be able to provide gunnery support at distances that (while still not out of harms way) don't put the entire fleet at risk of destruction. Being able to fire kinetic railgun rounds from over 200-300 miles away to soften up ground targets has become part of my IC battle doctrine, whether you disagree with it OOCly or not. Do I in RL understand the pros and cons of big ships? Yes. Is that how my nation chooses to fight its battles? Yes. Have I lost SD's in combat, and had my commanders watch in horror as a giant flaming hulk of twisted metal sinks to the bottom? Yes. But I find it entertaining as hell, and practical enough in an environment where mass missile spam is the only way to fight it seems.

So please, you lot need to stop OOCly attacking me for what I have my nation do.

[Automagfreek]

So how would you go about supporting landing operations in a mass missile wank environment?

By moving to a different region.

This is NS, where everyone knows where everyone is at any given moment, regardless of how many satellites you kill and AWACS you down.

[Auxatia]

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=auxatia/detail=factbook/id=197493