Your Nations Warships, MKII

[The Soodean Imperium]

Also, do you know what sort of size I could reasonably get away with for a ship to carry an OTHR system? The reason for this is that I do have OTHR land based systems, but I believe my nation wouldn't be happy with them, since of course they would be immobile and thus have inferior defensive capabilities. We would want some sort of back up system, less capable perhaps, and mounting a mobile oceanic counterpart would be a good idea. I was planning to use them on my mobile sensor ships that I mentioned earlier, the equivalent of 60,000 tons, but I am not sure if that is an adequate size for an OTHR unit. I can scrap that idea easily enough, if it isn't technically feasible.

The vessel you're referring to exists... on NS. It's called the Longsword, and it's over a kilometer long.

The Longsword is a well-known topic of controversy on these threads, with some experts saying it's a viable solution to a real problem and others saying it's an impossible solution to a problem that never existed. Personally, I lean towards skepticism; a kilometer-long hull is going to suffer some massive strain when turning at speed or sailing on rough seas, and most OTH arrays I know of are still too big to fit safely on that hull, especially if you account for the separate transmitter facility. But assuming it could be done, it would give an impressive (if imprecise) detection range, and it's at least a better justification for a super-ship then "moar missels."

If you don't want to take the Longsword path, I recommend you do some research on the United States' "Relocatable Over-The-Horizon Radar" program (AN/TPS-71 ROTHR for short) as a land-based alternative. It essentially consists of a modular antenna array that can be disassembled and rebuilt at another site, though I don't know how long that takes. If you still want a ship-based system, you would likely be limited to something like the USNS Observation Island, with large S-band and X-band Radars - not enough to see surface ships and low-flying aircraft over the horizon, but still enough to detect ballistic missiles a few thousand kilometers away. The easiest option, though, might be to just patrol large AWACS aircraft from land-based large airfields.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

Also, do you know what sort of size I could reasonably get away with for a ship to carry an OTHR system? The reason for this is that I do have OTHR land based systems, but I believe my nation wouldn't be happy with them, since of course they would be immobile and thus have inferior defensive capabilities. We would want some sort of back up system, less capable perhaps, and mounting a mobile oceanic counterpart would be a good idea. I was planning to use them on my mobile sensor ships that I mentioned earlier, the equivalent of 60,000 tons, but I am not sure if that is an adequate size for an OTHR unit. I can scrap that idea easily enough, if it isn't technically feasible.

The vessel you're referring to exists... on NS. It's called the Longsword, and it's over a kilometer long.

The Longsword is a well-known topic of controversy on these threads, with some experts saying it's a viable solution to a real problem and others saying it's an impossible solution to a problem that never existed. Personally, I lean towards skepticism; a kilometer-long hull is going to suffer some massive strain when turning at speed or sailing on rough seas, and most OTH arrays I know of are still too big to fit safely on that hull, especially if you account for the separate transmitter facility. But assuming it could be done, it would give an impressive (if imprecise) detection range, and it's at least a better justification for a super-ship then "moar missels."

If you don't want to take the Longsword path, I recommend you do some research on the United States' "Relocatable Over-The-Horizon Radar" program (AN/TPS-71 ROTHR for short) as a land-based alternative. It essentially consists of a modular antenna array that can be disassembled and rebuilt at another site, though I don't know how long that takes. If you still want a ship-based system, you would likely be limited to something like the USNS Observation Island, with large S-band and X-band Radars - not enough to see surface ships and low-flying aircraft over the horizon, but still enough to detect ballistic missiles a few thousand kilometers away. The easiest option, though, might be to just patrol large AWACS aircraft from land-based large airfields.

The main variant of the ship I had thought might work for the OTHR radar system is similar to the USNS Observation Island ship, although I had modeled it off of the SSV 33 but of a larger size. Although to be honest I liked to think of it as more like the US's Sea-Based X-band system, probably with inferior sensor systems but faster. Originally I was just aiming for AWACS like you suggested, but I had gotten concerned over my nation having adequate reconnaissance capabilities in any foreign intervention. However, while I had read slightly about the relocatable system, I hadn't seen the statistics of it and so... yeah not going to happen. I thought that the Longsword was a ship that was just taking a large version of it and a bunch of missiles because people like that stuff, and that I could fit it onto a much smaller ship completely dedicated to it and not other systems. But if regular variants take 2.6 kilometers, then there is no way I could build anything economically sized to handle it. I'm already not happy with the size of the population of my nation and I'm considering reducing it when I Fix the Geography™, and there would be no way that my nation would be willing to spend that amount of money on something, that you pointed out, was simply a luxury with AWACS. I just had wanted something that would be realistic for my nation to build and still give reasonable expeditionary capability support. Since I had recalled Lyras mentioning one time when he showed up in the Military Realism Thread, don't recall what page, about the value of the Longsword in providing long range targeting information for his fleet to enable their Hellion II cruise missiles to hit the enemy at long range. I had been hoping for something similar, but cheaper than that. I'll delete the section I had done about the OTHR system mounted on the Model 79-class, which is the ship I had mentioned earlier.

Still, I had done planning an extent towards what you mentioned about AWACS. Basically my consideration was to have three AWACS systems, with an extra large class for long endurance times at sea to escort my units and other long ranged, long endurance, high capability mission(I have the text for it somewhere, it was based off of the heavy strategic lift aircraft that my nation has) a medium sized one for general purpose usage similar enough to the E-3, and two naval classes, with ones flying off my main carrier and one off of the super-carrier. Super carrier one being substantially larger and more capable of course. That was the main reason I designed the super-carrier ship, because I thought I would be able to get a larger AWACS plane. Later on I decided to add on some naval interceptors as being the reason, that we wanted a large, long ranged naval interceptor that would be able to intercept enemies at long range and that had Mig-25 type speeds(I am aware of the limitations of the Mig-25 with its engine burn outs, I didn't just copy the Mig-25 and say we had "through the genius of modern technology fixed the problems of the ancient Mig-25, to make it unkillable!"), but the real initial reason was the AWACS aircraft. I did for a while toy around with the concept of using nuclear powered aircraft for the advantages for unlimited endurance, but ultimately I decided it wasn't worth the cost and the engineering problems when I could get normal aircraft in larger numbers. Still would have been a fun thing to do...

Looks like I didn't finish the AWACS unit either, just the sensors, main body, and engines section. Did get the text that I had worked out of the observation ship, don't have a stablock and still has the section about the OTHR. Also lacking sadly in detail in some sections, will need to update.

Model 79 Electronic Warfare and Command Vessel

A dedicated non-combat support vessel, the Model 79 Electronic Warfare and Command Vessel, or Model 79 EWCV, is a Manchukuo ship specifically dedicated to provide radar support, electronic intelligence, orbital observation, ICBM launch tracking, and missile defense activities at sea. Model 79s were created in response to the need for the capability to provide the maximum possible capabilities for reconnaissance of airspace in support of naval fleets, and to offer a fast fleet command ship to replace previous less dedicated units. Despite not being a warship, this class of ships is never the less vital to the effective functioning of Manchukuo naval fleets, and has the speed and range to keep up with other blue water naval assets.

The initiative behind the development of the Model 79 actually emerged in the 3750s, when it was theorized that the introduction of actual blue-water Manchukuo naval fleets capable of projecting and exerting power behind the island chains possessed by the Consortium of Manchukuo would emerge in the coming decades(As was the case in the 3760s). These fleets were supposed to be able to fight at sea itself, independent of shore-based support. At the same time, it was an increasing concern over the ability to track and intercept ICBMs, and while this was previously covered by land based platforms, concerns over their survivability, and lack of mobility generated an increased goal to provide a solution. Thus, in 3762 a new specification was laid down for a fleet intelligence ship, which was supposed to provide electronic warfare support, radar intelligence, and tracking of space targets and ICBMs. Manchukuo was also suffering from a lack of command vessels, and the dispositioning of the then SEREWV (Sea electronic radar and electronic warfare vessel) program seemed alike enough to combine the two. However, the attempts to actually create this new vessel type ran into signiifcant problems during the development period; the hull itself which was adapted from the experimental Missile Battleship Project 63, updates of radar systems with changes from PESA to AESA arrays, new computer systems, innummerable updates to electronic warfare meant that the ship itself meant that it took the best part of a decade to design the ship, and years more to finish it.

As earlier stated, Model 79s are built on the hull of the Missile Battleship Project 63, which was a proposal to build a nuclear powered battleship of some 45,000 tons incorporating long ranged missile batteries, a strong main gun armament, high speed, and the incorporation of an amount of armor. Although the design for the ship actually did go ahead and reached final stages, it was rapidly realized once it was showed to the actual navy that it was a ship without a use, impractical, inefficient, and overly expensive. In retrospect this was a highly positive move; the introduction of new VLS systems just a few years later enabled far more flexibility in ship design and usage. However, at the time, the private design firm that had created the ship saw nothing but ruinination in the judgement passed on their pet project. They continued to attempt to press for some version of their design to be adopted. Although normally this saw little thrift with the navy, the company had provided valuable contributions with the creation of elements of preceeding Model 54-Class Destroyers and work on Model 58-Class Frigates, as well as on various smaller works of equipment. Therefor, it was decided that there needed to be at least a pretense of interest in their work. With the removal of all armor, the vast majority of weapons and reconfiguration of the remainder, the superstructure enlarged, and the hull slightly reworked, it thus eventually became the basis of the Model 79 Electronic Warfare and Command Vessel. The company went bankrupt shortly afterward, much to the relief of the armed forces. This represented a rather atypical stage in Consortium procurement, and was partially brought on by the sudden expansions in research budgets, that caused many impractical designs to emerge.

At a length of 330 meters, a width of 38 meters, and a draught of 9 meters, Model 79s are larger than any surface warship in the Navy. Although based off the Project 63 Battleships, the revisions made saw the size of the proposed ships grow to include the large amounts of equipment needed for appropriate sensors and command and control equipment. Thus, instead of the 45,000 tons of tonnage as planned for the battleship, the tonnage itself reached some 52,000 tons, despite the removal of most weapons and armor. This was reflected both in the size of the ship in the water, but also its superstructure, which occupied much of the missile decks previously allocated. Another serious problem with the design stage of the ship was that the Consortium's navy started to incorporate some elements of stealth at the ending stages, resulting in large changes to the above-deck portions of the ship for reduced radar profile, as well as revisions to the propulsion and hull to decrease acoustic signature. Despite the significant changes, elements of their design history do remain intact; vital zones received kevlar protection and other defenses against internal spalling, fire and damage control systems were heavily emphasized, and only certain elements of the superstructure saw the inclusion of lighter materials instead of steel. Like other Manchukuo ships they incorporate design practices suited to operations in rough sea conditions, including pronounced bow flares, which added to their significant hull width to produce ships capable of efficient operations in rough sea conditions.

Being not specifically designed for combat, the armament of the vessels was significantly lighter than on warships. Still, some self-defense capability was provided, with the addition of gun and missile systems primarily intended to provide close in defense. Two CIWS mounts were provided, with dual 30mm autocannons and SR-N-SAM missile launchers and appropriate close in radar and tracking systems. A forward 76mm fast-firing gun was provided as well, which was later upgraded to the standards of the 76mm ASMS capable of providing defense against enemy anti-ship missiles with smart rounds to succesfully track and engage enemy missiles and helicopters. During the design stage there was a proposal to mount an additional 76mm gun to the rear; this was rejected as being unnecessary. Several 13.2mm machine guns were also provided for defense against boarders, not that there was much expectation of such actions in modern naval environments.

Of course, the main goal of the Model 79 is to serve as a sensory ship to detect and engage enemy aerial targets. The entire design was geared towards this aspect, especially the superstructure portions. One reason for the superstructure and its pronounced elevation was to attempt to raise the height of the radar systems, to increase their effective range. A significant problem with radar is that it has a horizon range which limits detection. Raising their height helps to increase this effective range, also another positive factor is the height of the target - greater elevation significantly detection radius. For the main radar system of the Model 79, a center-fore radome with a large internal AESA system was used. The large radome isn't rigid, but instead supported by internal variable air pressure to keep it properly inflated, and holds a large and sophisticated phased array radar. This radar is designed to operate in the X band, which provides high resolution of targets. The radar itself is both electronically and mechanically steered, with mechanical steering to direct the radar system within its enclosed radome along azimuth and elevation, and electronically within the standard 120 degrees as possessed by AESA radars. It can achieve a full 360 degree rotation, and elevations up to 82 degrees. Highly sophisticated, it has over 60,000 individual track/receive radar components, and is capable of sucesfully detecting even very small objects at many thousands of kilometers. This naturally makes it quite effective for tracking enemy ICBMs, or at shorter ranges aircraft.

Besides this, there are also a variety of other modules and sensor systems required for its operational capability, as well as an extensive communications suite. Since the ship was designed to function as a flag ship, it necessarily needed large numbers of supporting systems alongside the main radar system. A sophisticated radar detection system was included, designed to accurately and efficiently track enemy radar for localizing their units. This is also paired with a passive radar system which detects returns from other systems, which is useful for tasks like locating enemies with commercial radar systems broadcasting, enabling the ship to detect enemies even without using its own active radar systems. Advanced electronic warfare systems for signals intelligence were also included, although not as much as it would otherwise seem logical - most signals intelligence in the Consortium's navy is either capable of being done to a certain extent by Navy warships in standard operations, or by smaller ships which are significantly stealthier and capable of operating closer to the front line. Communications for secure contact with other forces is included, and

Like other ships in the Consortium of Manchukuo, the Model 79-class uses nuclear power for populsion and power generation. This was for the operational capability advantages of nuclear power; far longer periods could be maintained in active service as compared to disel propulsion used in conventional ships. It also matched the rest of the Consortium's navy's blue-water fleet's power generation systems, easing logistical interchangability, and establishing set speed requirements. Nuclear capabilities also provided for high power generation capabilities, ensuring that the massive onboard radar systems could function. In the case of the Model 79, the reactors used were the same as that on the Spirit of the People-Class Carriers which had entered service several years before the completion of the Model 79s. There are 2 of these pressurized water reactors onboard, the same as on the Spirit of the People-class, which does bite somewhat into the reserve power requirements due to the Model 79's greater power consumption. This can generate shaft horsepower equivalent to 240,000 shp, along with power generation of over 20 megawatts, significantly more than is otherwise needed. They are expected to power the ships for the entirety of their service life, eliminating the needs for mid-life refuelings. Actual propulsion comes from 4 shafts driven by the onboard steam turbines, and which enable it to reach standard naval speeds; that of 32 knots.

Due to the design of the ship, it also became a natural home for the development of a class of ships that would be intended to provide Over The Horizon Radar capabilities. The Model 79 EWCV-OTHR, this ship is equipped instead with a large number of radar transmitters and receivers, capable of bouncing signals off the ionosphere, lighting enemy targets on the surface or air at long range, and succesfully receiving return signals. The main problem with this is the sheer size of the systems needed, which limits deployment on ships to only among the largest. There had been options for buying vessels intended for operations with OTHR from other nations, but these were rejected as not fitting the proper logistical, and strategic needs of the Consortium of Manchukuo(And more importantly they were a tad expensive). Instead, the OTHR radar ship as adopted by the Navy would be built on the Model 79 class, offering a ship large enough to fit in adequate radar capabilities. At the same time command capabilities were maintained, and communication systems were either simply retained or actively improved.

While not intended to be usedas a warship, there is an onboard helicopter pad and hangar, which is located to the rear of the ship. This is capable of taking up to two medium sized helicopters, which in standard purpose are only used for resupply and transport. Technically the ship could be used as an anti-submarine warfare station due to this, but it doesn't have any of the equipment needed for such operations. There isn't a reason after all; Model 79s will be surrounded by escorting fleets with their own helicopters.

[Urran]

Something that large would not be practical. It would take years and years to build first of all. Secondly, where would you build something that big and still keep it a secret? If I knew my enemy was building something like that I would bomb the shipyard, the risk would be far too great.

Thirdly, getting in close to shore would be nearly impossible. The keel would drag the seabed even in waters where a super carrier can operate safely. It's just too big. Rough seas would topple it and turning would be nearly impossible in high waves making combat maneuvers difficult to say the least.

It's also a MASSIVE target. It's hard to hide a vessel that large. You can cover it in defenses, but your enemy is still going to know where it is unless they are completely blind or lack a modern radar system. And no matter how many defenses it has, it's eventually going to get hit and then need repairs.

[Oaledonia]

Secondly, where would you build something that big and still keep it a secret? If I knew my enemy was building something like that I would bomb the shipyard, the risk would be far too great.

You say that, until you realize that you would have to bomb Lyras. Which, in it's very nature, gives you a negative chance at survival.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

Secondly, where would you build something that big and still keep it a secret? If I knew my enemy was building something like that I would bomb the shipyard, the risk would be far too great.

You say that, until you realize that you would have to bomb Lyras. Which, in it's very nature, gives you a negative chance at survival.

That high?

[Allentyr]

http://s7.postimg.org/tozlxhi7v/ACS_04_Farsight_Frigate.png

ACS-04 Farsight Cruiser

Equipment

1 MR-15 50mm Anti-Ship Gun
1 AM-4 Hydra missile battery w/ 28 missiles
2 PIG 12.7mm Projectile Interception Guns
Cameras
Radios
Satellite Uplink
Advanced Targeting Computers

Crew and Cargo

60 crewmen
200 cases of 50mm rounds (6 rounds each)
100 cases of 12.7mm ammunition (100 rounds each)
52 M-4 Missiles
Max. Fuel Capacity of 1 month

Description

A variant of the ACS-03 Longbow, it was designed as a scouting frigate, only armed with
one 50mm MR-15 cannon, and one AM-4 Hydra Missile Battery. Fast and relatively slender,
the Farsight could observe enemy positions from afar with it's long range cameras and
other detection systems, living up to it's name. Should the need arise, the MR-15 could
pummel the enemy with 50mm SHPBSTR rounds faster than the MR-45 could with it's 75mm HEAP,
while the Hydra could rain it with tubes of fire.

One of my first ships ever... The details may be stupid, but hey, it's not real life

[Urran]

You'd have to build the darn thing in the open ocean away from shore just to launch it. Defending it would be difficult....

[Oaledonia]

You'd have to build the darn thing in the open ocean away from shore just to launch it. Defending it would be difficult....

Attacking Lyras is death, it's literally death.

[Urran]

You'd have to build the darn thing in the open ocean away from shore just to launch it. Defending it would be difficult....

Attacking Lyras is death, it's literally death.

He's not my enemy though. I did say enemy.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

http://s7.postimg.org/tozlxhi7v/ACS_04_Farsight_Frigate.png

ACS-04 Farsight Cruiser

Equipment

1 MR-15 50mm Anti-Ship Gun
1 AM-4 Hydra missile battery w/ 28 missiles
2 PIG 12.7mm Projectile Interception Guns
Cameras
Radios
Satellite Uplink
Advanced Targeting Computers

Crew and Cargo

60 crewmen
200 cases of 50mm rounds (6 rounds each)
100 cases of 12.7mm ammunition (100 rounds each)
52 M-4 Missiles
Max. Fuel Capacity of 1 month

Description

A variant of the ACS-03 Longbow, it was designed as a scouting frigate, only armed with
one 50mm MR-15 cannon, and one AM-4 Hydra Missile Battery. Fast and relatively slender,
the Farsight could observe enemy positions from afar with it's long range cameras and
other detection systems, living up to it's name. Should the need arise, the MR-15 could
pummel the enemy with 50mm SHPBSTR rounds faster than the MR-45 could with it's 75mm HEAP,
while the Hydra could rain it with tubes of fire.

One of my first ships ever... The details may be stupid, but hey, it's not real life

If I may recommend, perhaps adding length and overall size dimensions to it would be a good idea in the stat-block? It is a bit hard to tell the size of ship you're angling for otherwise, which makes it difficult to recommend anything for improving it or any comments on it. One thing I might recommend is upgrading 12.7mm point defense systems to a larger standard; while 12.7mm as used was an anti-aircraft gun very early in the second world war, generally against anything that moves somewhat quickly or has some mass they would be of limited value. Using a cannon ranging in size from 20-30mm might be a good idea instead. There are other things but I can't really comment on it unless if the size is known.

[Allentyr]

SNIPPY SNIP

Oh, I forgot to update the stat-block... The PIGs actually use 30mm. The 12.7mm was my first draft.
Also, might need help with the size..... Would you recommend a size?

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

SNIPPY SNIP

Oh, I forgot to update the stat-block... The PIGs actually use 30mm. The 12.7mm was my first draft.
Also, might need help with the size..... Would you recommend a size?

I can't recommend an exact size, because ultimately I don't have in mind the capabilities you do. Just a general estimate could be in the 80-90 meter range, I might I would recommend looking at the Corvette page on wikipedia though, which has two designs that are somewhat similar to yours of the Visby and the Espora. I would advise also that you read about the Visby's stealth, and also missile systems mountings on ships like that. Your ship is intended to be a light scouting ship, so you want to be stealthy, you want to be as small as possible, but you also want to have decent range and some armament. Besides the length you'll also want to look at the width, the draught - which you want to keep relatively low since if it is a corvette you'll be operating close to shore, and to use other ships to get a good general figure for your displacement. Going through the various national navies, especially smaller ones like Sweden, Turkey, Italy, Israel, Japan, gives good looks at smaller ships that you can use to get a handle on your own forces, including the weapons and sensors (Which are even more important for an intelligence ship). One final recommendation is to perhaps alter around the missile set up, and use the rear portion of your ship for helicopters, that provide a lot of advantages including transfer of crew, anti-submarine warfare, scouting, and rescue at sea.

[Oaledonia]

Attacking Lyras is death, it's literally death.

He's not my enemy though. I did say enemy.

They are built in Lyras.

[New Tyran]

He's not my enemy though. I did say enemy.

They are built in Lyras.

Stirke it when it's in the hands of someone else less terrifying

[Crookfur]

http://s7.postimg.org/tozlxhi7v/ACS_04_Farsight_Frigate.png

ACS-04 Farsight Cruiser

Equipment

1 MR-15 50mm Anti-Ship Gun
1 AM-4 Hydra missile battery w/ 28 missiles
2 PIG 12.7mm Projectile Interception Guns
Cameras
Radios
Satellite Uplink
Advanced Targeting Computers

Crew and Cargo

60 crewmen
200 cases of 50mm rounds (6 rounds each)
100 cases of 12.7mm ammunition (100 rounds each)
52 M-4 Missiles
Max. Fuel Capacity of 1 month

Description

A variant of the ACS-03 Longbow, it was designed as a scouting frigate, only armed with
one 50mm MR-15 cannon, and one AM-4 Hydra Missile Battery. Fast and relatively slender,
the Farsight could observe enemy positions from afar with it's long range cameras and
other detection systems, living up to it's name. Should the need arise, the MR-15 could
pummel the enemy with 50mm SHPBSTR rounds faster than the MR-45 could with it's 75mm HEAP,
while the Hydra could rain it with tubes of fire.

One of my first ships ever... The details may be stupid, but hey, it's not real life

i'm pretty much going with a +1 on what Manchukuo has already said.

However there a few other things i would like to mention:

Sensors: whilst optical/IR imaging systems (fancy term for cameras) are still very useful on naval vessels and IIRC Thales makes a nice selection of such systems they really aren't going to be your main sensor system which will be a series of radars. if you are basiclaly going for a light patrol/corvette type vessel these don't need to be much fancier than comerical navigation and collision avoidance sets but an air search radar certainly wouldn't hurt and you will certainly need some kind of bigger search and tracking radar setup for suing any kind of point defence gun system (assuming the PIGs are supposed to CIWS style weapons like the phalanx).

The missiles do also make commenting on the size and capbilities of the vessel difficult as it not clear what they are. Are they bggish anti shipping missiles, surface to air missiles or some kind of small, say hellfire sized missile?

[Urran]

I pride myself as a submarine expert so bare with me here.

A friend of mine is trying to sell me on littoral combat ships. Are they really worth it? To me they just seem like something the US navy is trying to build to protect its own waters as a shift away from power projection.

I already have Skjold Class corvettes, Ford Class supercarriers, Hyuga Class Helicopter carrier, Virginia Class Attack subs, Vanguard Class missile subs, U212 Class patrol subs, Ticonderoga Class cruisers, and Burke Class destroyers. Why would I need a littoral combat vessel?

[Gallia-]

Just make up a requirement.

edit: That might be too obscure for NS, the stated purpose of LCS is that of a high speed minesweeper.

[Urran]

Just make up a requirement.

edit: That might be too obscure for NS, the stated purpose of LCS is that of a high speed minesweeper.

Supposedly they can be fitted with mission modules for various purposes but the Burke Class is already a great all around warship. As for making up a purpose, I can't do that. I try to be realistic so everything that I have has a purpose.

[Gallia-]

Just make up a requirement.

edit: That might be too obscure for NS, the stated purpose of LCS is that of a high speed minesweeper.

Supposedly they can be fitted with mission modules for various purposes but the Burke Class is already a great all around warship. As for making up a purpose, I can't do that. I try to be realistic so everything that I have has a purpose.

I don't see how a guided missile frigate/destroyer/cruiser is a good minesweeper.

[Urran]

Give me a reason why the Burke isn't just as good as a LCS. According to Wikipedia it's supposed to be a multipurpose warship.

[Gallia-]

According to Wikipedia, Schroedinger's cat should be taken unironically. For someone who states he knows about ships, it should be readily apparent the differences between LCS and Arleigh Burke.

[Urran]

According to Wikipedia, Schroedinger's cat should be taken unironically. For someone who states he knows about ships, it should be readily apparent the differences between LCS and Arleigh Burke.

I know of submarines. Surface ships not so much.

[Urran]

It's basically a large corvette...according to Lockhead Martin

[The Akasha Colony]

I pride myself as a submarine expert so bare with me here.

A friend of mine is trying to sell me on littoral combat ships. Are they really worth it? To me they just seem like something the US navy is trying to build to protect its own waters as a shift away from power projection.

I already have Skjold Class corvettes, Ford Class supercarriers, Hyuga Class Helicopter carrier, Virginia Class Attack subs, Vanguard Class missile subs, U212 Class patrol subs, Ticonderoga Class cruisers, and Burke Class destroyers. Why would I need a littoral combat vessel?

Originally, the LCS was designed to be a cheaper warship that could be deployed in larger numbers, and was also needed to replace the aging Oliver Hazard Perrys that were going to otherwise be retired without replacement (which would have left the Navy shorthanded). They were also meant to be faster, and designed to be rapidly converted to a specific role to bolster fleet strength where needed, without the cost of including all of these features for each ship. Thus, if the fleet was expected to be operating in submarine infested waters, it could be converted to ASW duty without the need to send additional destroyers or cruisers, which are far more expensive. Or it could be modified to support land operations, and could operate closer to shore using its shallower draft and with a lower asset risk if suddenly engaged by ground-based missiles or air power.

It's actually more of a shift toward continuous power projection; these aren't ships designed to operate in US littoral waters, but in foreign waters. With a larger number of more affordable ships, the US in theory would be able to keep more ships on station in forward deployments. Of course, the cost of the program has ballooned significantly since then.

Ultimately, "need" is pretty nebulous outside of having basic ASW, AAW, and ASuW capability. You don't theoretically "need" patrol subs, your Virginias can do that if they need to. Obviously, the diesel-electric U-212 is cheaper for that kind of role, however, which creates a niche for them. You don't "need" the Ticonderogas, the Burkes have all of the same capabilities. Or even the Hyugas, given that the destroyers and carriers already have helicopter facilities. But in your case, you presumably figured it was worth having dedicated ships to more efficiently fulfill specific roles. It's the same with the LCS, it's your judgment as to whether it is necessary.

[Urran]

You're right. I'm just trying to see why I need the LCS when the Burkes can be fitted with littoral mission modules.