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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:06 pm
by Arkiasis
Nation Name: The Republic of Arkiasis
Capital: Leighton
Leader: President John Hunter
Currency: Arkiasin Credit (1.00 AC = 1.89 USD)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes, the President is elected during the Parliamentary elections every 4 years.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Yes, the basic rights are the right to life, freedom from torture, freedom from slavery, right to a fair trial, freedom of speech, freedom of thought and conscience and freedom of religion.
Is communism legal?: Yes, banning it would be a violation of freedom of speech.
Is prohibition in effect?: No, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, caffeine are fully legal recreational drugs. However, all drugs are decriminalized in terms of personal use, trafficking and distribution of any drug without a license however is illegal.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:07 pm
by Louavo
Nation Name: Louavo
Capital: Ómarán
Leader: 1st Minister Carlo Giberùzónà
Currency: Nega (ᵰ)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Yes, Life without impedement of: most religious practices, speech including art and assembly, property rights, provisions of the constitution that involve civil rights and liberties.
Is communism legal?: Yes
Is prohibition in effect?: No

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:13 pm
by Maltropia
Luziyca wrote:
Maltropia wrote:[OOC: Reposting this in case it was missed.]

OOC: The algorithm is top secret. ;)

[OOC: I'm not looking for the technical explanation, but it seems you're favouring countries which ban communism and have control relatively concentrated. Maltropia's an absolutely-constitutional monarchy (halfway between both), though administrative areas elect their own local governments freely and democratically (though there are no areas where a "Communist party" has more than one percent of seats). For the last century its greatest rival was a communist nation which has since collapsed. There is virtually no regulation of the market.]

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:14 pm
by Bleckonia
Nation Name: The Republic of Bleckonia
Capital: Mann
Leader: Prime Minister Aaron Blecker
Currency: Blec (1 Blec = 1.88 USD)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: There are many rights guaranteed to our citizens, most of which are beyond basic human rights and include political and civil rights. They include suffrage, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom to form political parties, freedom of religion, freedom from torture, property rights, and many more.
Is communism legal?: Absolutely, though it is becoming much less common
Is prohibition in effect?: No; we lifted our ban on hard drugs about 8 months ago.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:33 pm
by Louavo
Maltropia wrote:
Luziyca wrote:OOC: The algorithm is top secret. ;)

[OOC: I'm not looking for the technical explanation, but it seems you're favouring countries which ban communism and have control relatively concentrated. Maltropia's an absolutely-constitutional monarchy (halfway between both), though administrative areas elect their own local governments freely and democratically (though there are no areas where a "Communist party" has more than one percent of seats). For the last century its greatest rival was a communist nation which has since collapsed. There is virtually no regulation of the market.]

OOC
1. To ban communism would be just as bad on the real freedom house as being a totalitarian communist one party government, your still limiting political rights.
2.Mal. Its absolute monarchy or constitutional monarchy, it cannot be both because the constitution eliminates the absoluteness.
3. If the algorithm is top secret then telegram it to me and Mal.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:44 pm
by Tuthina
Nation Name: Tuthina, Most Serene Empire of
Capital: Sakan
Leader: Akiyasu, His Most Serene Highness
Currency: Zeni

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?:
No, and never, actually.

Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?:
No. Nothing is guaranteed, although anything that is not illegal can be done without much consequences unless you crossed someone in power.

Is communism legal?:
All ideologies that do not revere the emperor is illegal. Communist denominations that do so is not illegal, though.

Is prohibition in effect?:
No.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:23 pm
by Grand Britannia
Nation Name: The Holy Empire of Britannia
Capital: Pendragon
Leader: Holy Empress Nunnally vi Britannia
Currency: Sterling

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: More like never has been. We are an Absolute Monarchy.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: PSICOM determines human rights. They follow a code of conduct which more or less acts as the law for the nation.
Is communism legal?: Learning about it is no crime, vocalizing it can get you arrested.
Is prohibition in effect?: No

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:45 pm
by Morpokia
Nation Name: The Holy Empire of Morpokia
Capital: Divade
Leader: Emperor Hans Michael II
Currency: Omnipressant Slobvenian

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: No His Hereditary Majesty rules for life
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Some, the right to sustinence, lodging, healthcare and work
Is communism legal?: Definitly not. Any communists are introduced to the Holy Inquisition
Is prohibition in effect?: No - The Emperor likes his tipple

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:51 pm
by Kaiserholt
Ah well, I can try at least. Here we go.

Nation Name: Kaiserholt
Capital: Caer Lochweald [unofficial until I reach 250 million]
Leader: Censor Eleanor Lamb, Factio Conservare [unofficial until I reach blah-de-blah million]
Currency: Argentæum [silver coin still in development, just can't figure the weight or composition :lol: ]

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: RP wise, she secure a majority of the vote in our 'one Argentæum, one vote' system
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: All citizens are guaranteed the physiological level on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, but all else is dependant upon their individual actions.
Is communism legal?:Legal, but unprofitable. And thus irrelevant :clap:
Is prohibition in effect?:No, the citizenry have the right to be as drunk as they wish. As long as it doesn't impinge upon their work.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:32 pm
by Luziyca
Urcea wrote:Nation Name: The Federal Republic of Urcea
Capital: Urceopolis
Leader: President James Fallshade Jr.
Currency: Urcean Dollar

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Not Federally, but each province has passed a similar bill of rights ensuring, among other things, property, the right to bear arms, speech, religion, freedom to assemble, freedoms of press, etc.
Is communism legal?: Yes, but it is not widely accepted.
Is prohibition in effect?: No.

If any questions, be sure to look at the Factbook or ask us!


Image



To: President James Fallshade Jr.
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 5/10, and thus, we hereby place you as a partially free nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989


Arkiasis wrote:Nation Name: The Republic of Arkiasis
Capital: Leighton
Leader: President John Hunter
Currency: Arkiasin Credit (1.00 AC = 1.89 USD)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes, the President is elected during the Parliamentary elections every 4 years.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Yes, the basic rights are the right to life, freedom from torture, freedom from slavery, right to a fair trial, freedom of speech, freedom of thought and conscience and freedom of religion.
Is communism legal?: Yes, banning it would be a violation of freedom of speech.
Is prohibition in effect?: No, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, caffeine are fully legal recreational drugs. However, all drugs are decriminalized in terms of personal use, trafficking and distribution of any drug without a license however is illegal.


Image



To: President John Hunter
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 8/10, and thus, we reluctantly place you as a nation that is NOT FREE.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Louavo wrote:Nation Name: Louavo
Capital: Ómarán
Leader: 1st Minister Carlo Giberùzónà
Currency: Nega (ᵰ)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Yes, Life without impedement of: most religious practices, speech including art and assembly, property rights, provisions of the constitution that involve civil rights and liberties.
Is communism legal?: Yes
Is prohibition in effect?: No


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To: First Minister Carlo Giberuzona
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 8/10, and thus, we reluctantly place you as a nation which is NOT FREE in any shape or form.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989


Bleckonia wrote:Nation Name: The Republic of Bleckonia
Capital: Mann
Leader: Prime Minister Aaron Blecker
Currency: Blec (1 Blec = 1.88 USD)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: There are many rights guaranteed to our citizens, most of which are beyond basic human rights and include political and civil rights. They include suffrage, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom to form political parties, freedom of religion, freedom from torture, property rights, and many more.
Is communism legal?: Absolutely, though it is becoming much less common
Is prohibition in effect?: No; we lifted our ban on hard drugs about 8 months ago.


Image



To: Prime Minister Aaron Blecker
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 6/10, and thus, we place you as a partially free nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Tuthina wrote:Nation Name: Tuthina, Most Serene Empire of
Capital: Sakan
Leader: Akiyasu, His Most Serene Highness
Currency: Zeni

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?:
No, and never, actually.

Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?:
No. Nothing is guaranteed, although anything that is not illegal can be done without much consequences unless you crossed someone in power.

Is communism legal?:
All ideologies that do not revere the emperor is illegal. Communist denominations that do so is not illegal, though.

Is prohibition in effect?:
No.


Image



To: Emperor Akiyasu
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 3/10, and thus, we place you as a FREE nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Grand Britannia wrote:Nation Name: The Holy Empire of Britannia
Capital: Pendragon
Leader: Holy Empress Nunnally vi Britannia
Currency: Sterling

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: More like never has been. We are an Absolute Monarchy.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: PSICOM determines human rights. They follow a code of conduct which more or less acts as the law for the nation.
Is communism legal?: Learning about it is no crime, vocalizing it can get you arrested.
Is prohibition in effect?: No


Image



To: Empress Nunally
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 4/10, and thus, we reluctantly place you as a partially free nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Morpokia wrote:Nation Name: The Holy Empire of Morpokia
Capital: Divade
Leader: Emperor Hans Michael II
Currency: Omnipressant Slobvenian

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: No His Hereditary Majesty rules for life
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Some, the right to sustinence, lodging, healthcare and work
Is communism legal?: Definitly not. Any communists are introduced to the Holy Inquisition
Is prohibition in effect?: No - The Emperor likes his tipple


Image



To: Emperor Hans Micheal II
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 3/10, and thus, we reluctantly place you as a FREE nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Kaiserholt wrote:Ah well, I can try at least. Here we go.

Nation Name: Kaiserholt
Capital: Caer Lochweald [unofficial until I reach 250 million]
Leader: Censor Eleanor Lamb, Factio Conservare [unofficial until I reach blah-de-blah million]
Currency: Argentæum [silver coin still in development, just can't figure the weight or composition :lol: ]

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: RP wise, she secure a majority of the vote in our 'one Argentæum, one vote' system
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: All citizens are guaranteed the physiological level on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, but all else is dependant upon their individual actions.
Is communism legal?:Legal, but unprofitable. And thus irrelevant :clap:
Is prohibition in effect?:No, the citizenry have the right to be as drunk as they wish. As long as it doesn't impinge upon their work.


Image



To: Censor Eleanor Lamb
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 6/10, and thus, we reluctantly place you as a partially free nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:02 pm
by Louavo
I dispute your findings and demand to see a full explanation of my results.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:35 pm
by Crata
Nation Name: The Federal Republic of Crata / Bundesrepublik Crata
Capital: Crata City, CAD
Leader: Dr. Meier (Federal President / Head of State), Tracy E. King (Chancellor / Head of Government)
Currency: Crataan Dollar

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes, both have been elected in 2001 (Crataan Elections for Presidency in 2011 and the Crataan Federal Elections). Our current government is here: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=crat ... k/id=48884
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Human and civil rights are set forth in our Constitution. The Federal Republic of Crata also managed to push human rights through their involvement in the Humanitarian League, a supranational alliance of nations providing humanitarian aid and protecting essential sentient rights at home and abroad.
Is communism legal?: Every political spectrum is legal in the Federal Republic of Crata. The communist party, the Civillian Party (CP), is holding 43 seats in the Federal Assembly (28 in Parliament, 15 in Federal Councils) and has a general approval rating by the Citizens' Council of 39 percent.
Is prohibition in effect?: Prohibition is not an effect. It was in effect from 1273 to 1684 (under rule of the Church), and then struck down by the Order. It has since not been a talking point.

The Federal Republic of Crata did participate in the Freedom House Survey before and reached the status of "Free". Should you require further information about our government, including insight into files in our archives, feel free to send your representatives to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Crata City.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:36 pm
by Namor
OOC: Dis gon b gud...I'm so going to flunk this.

Nation Name: People's Republic of Namor
Capital: Namo
Leader: President-General Jamin Chen
Currency: Ramon (R$)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes, we believe in a true democratic society
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: All political rights, civil and human rights are guaranteed to the populace. These include the right to speak out against the government, the right to remain silent in front of authorities, the right to a fair trial, the right to assemble, the right to live private lives without government interference, etc.
Is communism legal?: Namor currently has an opposition Communist Party, the CoPN. The Communist Party has vehemently opposed revisionism, thus is not popular with the people or the ruling government.
Is prohibition in effect?: No

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:44 pm
by Elcric Kcalb
Nation Name: The Corporate States of Elcric Kcalb
Capital: Gratenburg
Leader: Wilhelm Adenauer
Currency: Hob

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Wilhelm Adenauer was given the position of Head of State eleven years ago by Kcalbite Industrial Technologies after K.I.T. received a majority vote from the Corporations that held seats within the Greater House of Elcric Kcalb.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Human rights are not guaranteed or protected, but still enjoyed by the populace.
Is communism legal?: As if we would ever waste time and money forming our own thought police. Communist thinking is legal.
Is prohibition in effect?: Absolutely not.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:46 pm
by Tuthina
Louavo wrote:I dispute your findings and demand to see a full explanation of my results.

Given that Tuthina is rated "free" while you are not, I am pretty sure it is not the usual "freedom" they are measuring.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:50 pm
by Namor
Tuthina wrote:
Louavo wrote:I dispute your findings and demand to see a full explanation of my results.

Given that Tuthina is rated "free" while you are not, I am pretty sure it is not the usual "freedom" they are measuring.


Hey, the ratings are biased, why take it so seriously?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:06 pm
by Tuthina
Namor wrote:
Tuthina wrote:Given that Tuthina is rated "free" while you are not, I am pretty sure it is not the usual "freedom" they are measuring.


Hey, the ratings are biased, why take it so seriously?

My point exactly. :p
Tuthina is intended to look like a tinpot dictatorship by first glance, although apparently I suck at delivering it.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:27 pm
by Sigvardia
Nation Name: The Sigvardian Kingdom
Capital: Sigvardia
Leader: Kong Sigvard VII
Currency: Krone (SIK)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: No.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Yes.
Is communism legal?:
Is prohibition in effect?: No.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:31 pm
by Demirysis
Nation Name: The United Federation of Demirysis
Capital: Arcadia
Leader: Chief Councillor Marcus Dewhurst
Currency: Genisian Credit

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes - the leader's term is 5 years, renewable twice
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: There are granted rights under the constitution
Is communism legal?: No. Openly believing in Communism is a capital crime
Is prohibition in effect?: Alcohol and its consumption is legal. God knows the suicide rate would triple if it weren't

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:37 pm
by Bleckonia
Swilatia wrote:The Swilatian Republic officially boycotts this survey, as we feel that it would not provide an accurate assessment of civil liberties on our nation, or in any other. These four questions simply would not provide enough information to work with, as the first two are much too vaguely worded, while the other two address issues which, while related to human rights, carry less importance than many issues that are not directly addressed in this survey.

Additionally, the organisation responsible for this survey is too closely tied to the Luziycan government, and is likely to produce biased reports.

OOC: Yeah, I'm pretty much only posting because you sent a TG. Didn't you already do this a while ago, anyway?


Well of course it's biased; it's Luziyca. I just like to see what Luziyca thinks of my nation.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:56 am
by Luziyca
Crata wrote:Nation Name: The Federal Republic of Crata / Bundesrepublik Crata
Capital: Crata City, CAD
Leader: Dr. Meier (Federal President / Head of State), Tracy E. King (Chancellor / Head of Government)
Currency: Crataan Dollar

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes, both have been elected in 2001 (Crataan Elections for Presidency in 2011 and the Crataan Federal Elections). Our current government is here: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=crat ... k/id=48884
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Human and civil rights are set forth in our Constitution. The Federal Republic of Crata also managed to push human rights through their involvement in the Humanitarian League, a supranational alliance of nations providing humanitarian aid and protecting essential sentient rights at home and abroad.
Is communism legal?: Every political spectrum is legal in the Federal Republic of Crata. The communist party, the Civillian Party (CP), is holding 43 seats in the Federal Assembly (28 in Parliament, 15 in Federal Councils) and has a general approval rating by the Citizens' Council of 39 percent.
Is prohibition in effect?: Prohibition is not an effect. It was in effect from 1273 to 1684 (under rule of the Church), and then struck down by the Order. It has since not been a talking point.

The Federal Republic of Crata did participate in the Freedom House Survey before and reached the status of "Free". Should you require further information about our government, including insight into files in our archives, feel free to send your representatives to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Crata City.


Image



To: Dr. Meir
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 2/10, and thus, we hereby place you as a FREE nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Namor wrote:OOC: Dis gon b gud...I'm so going to flunk this.

Nation Name: People's Republic of Namor
Capital: Namo
Leader: President-General Jamin Chen
Currency: Ramon (R$)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes, we believe in a true democratic society
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: All political rights, civil and human rights are guaranteed to the populace. These include the right to speak out against the government, the right to remain silent in front of authorities, the right to a fair trial, the right to assemble, the right to live private lives without government interference, etc.
Is communism legal?: Namor currently has an opposition Communist Party, the CoPN. The Communist Party has vehemently opposed revisionism, thus is not popular with the people or the ruling government.
Is prohibition in effect?: No


Image



To: President-General Jamin Chen
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 8/10, and thus, we hereby place you as a NOT FREE nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Elcric Kcalb wrote:Nation Name: The Corporate States of Elcric Kcalb
Capital: Gratenburg
Leader: Wilhelm Adenauer
Currency: Hob

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Wilhelm Adenauer was given the position of Head of State eleven years ago by Kcalbite Industrial Technologies after K.I.T. received a majority vote from the Corporations that held seats within the Greater House of Elcric Kcalb.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Human rights are not guaranteed or protected, but still enjoyed by the populace.
Is communism legal?: As if we would ever waste time and money forming our own thought police. Communist thinking is legal.
Is prohibition in effect?: Absolutely not.


Image



To: Wilhelm Adenauer
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 9/10, and thus, we hereby place you as a NOT FREE nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:59 am
by Luziyca
Sigvardia wrote:Nation Name: The Sigvardian Kingdom
Capital: Sigvardia
Leader: Kong Sigvard VII
Currency: Krone (SIK)

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: No.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: Yes.
Is communism legal?:
Is prohibition in effect?: No.


Image



To: King Sigvard VII
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 3/10, and thus, we hereby place you as a FREE nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989




Demirysis wrote:Nation Name: The United Federation of Demirysis
Capital: Arcadia
Leader: Chief Councillor Marcus Dewhurst
Currency: Genisian Credit

Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: Yes - the leader's term is 5 years, renewable twice
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: There are granted rights under the constitution
Is communism legal?: No. Openly believing in Communism is a capital crime
Is prohibition in effect?: Alcohol and its consumption is legal. God knows the suicide rate would triple if it weren't


Image



To: Chief Councillor Marcus Dewhurst
From: Director Arghet Shjoraski



We have examined your nation, and it is at 6/10, and thus, as determined, we hereby place you as a partially free nation.

Signed,
Arghet Shjoraski
Director of Freedom House since 1989

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:32 pm
by Namor
Um, explanation, please?

It feels dumb being rated not free just because we have a communist party whom the people dislike....

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:28 pm
by Ralkovia
Is your leader democratically elected in free and fair elections in the past 10 years?: No.
Are there any human rights guaranteed to the populace?: No.
Is communism legal?: No.
Is prohibition in effect?: Yes, from pornography to drugs.

If we are not put down as a free society, we will come and destroy everything you know and love.
-Emperor Joshua Raskov II

My Emperor is an asshole. Isn't he?

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:38 pm
by Maltropia
Ralkovia wrote:If we are not put down as a free society, we will come and destroy everything you know and love.
-Emperor Joshua Raskov II

[OOC: Why oh why did I not try that when I came in? :p ]