Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Mk. VI

[Spirit of Hope]

Bombs I suppose.

This thread is about infantry weapons as per the OP. Giving infantry bombs as a MMW doesn't sound like a good idea. Lots of dead infantry.

O hay top page!

[Veceria]

Bombs I suppose.

This thread is about infantry weapons as per the OP. Giving infantry bombs as a MMW doesn't sound like a good idea. Lots of dead infantry.

Zergrush!

[Spirit of Hope]

This thread is about infantry weapons as per the OP. Giving infantry bombs as a MMW doesn't sound like a good idea. Lots of dead infantry.

Zergrush!

'nids did it first!

[The Zeonic States]

If your willing to deal with the Head aches of a caseless round i see no issue with it; I wouldn't personally use the Techology but that is me. I like the idea of my gun's not melting in my soldiers hands or their magazines not needing loaded by hand every time they need to reload.

I don't think you know what caseless ammunition is, if you think that those are drawbacks.

And secondly; Again it depends upon the Polymer material or whatever material you are making the case from; Some artifically made polymers i have seen in dicussion about the caseless rounds have been far from cheap but others have if you were willing to coat the round in Sythentic rubber i am certain that it would be cheaper then Brass but it wouldn't exactly work very well for a round casing Material.

I've not seen anything to suggest that polymer cases would be more expensive than brass ones. Quite the opposite, in fact.

From everything i have heard that is one of the major drawbacks of the rounds. The increasing heat temperature in the barrel which eventually causes a warping of the barrel or even worse a cookup turning a soldier's rifle into a hand grenade. Some manufactors of firearms even went to the length of making a Round's primer not as heat sensitive. But that doesn't change the fact some guns with extremely high rates of fire would still see the issue of heat remain, because with out the "casing" the Heat will remained trapped within the barrel until it warps or melts.

.-. So instead of a dirt cheap even a primer a material that a third world country can afford you would need either find another naturally occuring mixture to act as primer in Your rounds or you would need to artifically create it. So then you have the expense of an an entire Arsenal being reinforced with this crap. In fact i would assume that you would need to begin reinforcing the barrels and lengthing the width of the damn thing because i heard one of you lot said you were using telescoped rounds? I have heard tale of those things literally jamming within the barrel and catching flame neat trick but not useful on a battle field.

And finally as stated previously it would dramatically depend upon the Polymer chosen for round casings and the expense in producing it and or using it. I have heard some odd choices to be used for polymer rounds secondly know i really think about Polymer rounds wouldn't you need to resize the magazine on existing firearms to contain them? So apart from the debatable expenses of this, You would most likely need to begin to just refit your entire Military firearms to use the thing; I don't know to be honest i never shot one but i have heard of them being unable to fire and or fit within Magazines before.

[Yes Im Biop]

Huh, And strength of the Poly wouldn't be any less then Brass and steel in bigger rifles like a .50 Over pressured rounds? Anyway i was having a thought (O Shit run everyone) That you could make Guided big bullet's by putting a micro set of fin's on it and a battery and reciver inside the bullet in place of a HE Charge or armor pricing rod

[Shefitha]

My Army will be supplied with an RPG, Calico M960, Bersa Thunder 380, 4 hand grenades, 3 flash grenades, and 4 smoke grenades.

However Civilians are promoted to use weapons for protection only and not for hunting...

These are our country's prices on some of our finest weapons produced or traded

Taurus PT 92- 15,000$

Arsenal P-M02 Compact Pistol 9,000$

SIG 556 Semi-Automatic Rifle- 23,000$

Ruger PC-4- 16,000$

TPD AXR Rifle- 26,000$

Beretta CX4 Storm Carbine- 28,000$

Civilians are only allowed gun permits after a valid ID is shown, a CLEAN criminal record (excluding speeding) and over the age of 21, which is the legal age in Shefitha.

However both our military and civilians use a variety of weapons from many different nations, however these are most common.

[Aqizithiuda]

From everything i have heard that is one of the major drawbacks of the rounds. The increasing heat temperature in the barrel which eventually causes a warping of the barrel or even worse a cookup turning a soldier's rifle into a hand grenade. Some manufactors of firearms even went to the length of making a Round's primer not as heat sensitive. But that doesn't change the fact some guns with extremely high rates of fire would still see the issue of heat remain, because with out the "casing" the Heat will remained trapped within the barrel until it warps or melts.

Just like with any other rifle. Heating off the barrel can be mitigated by good training, restricted firing modes and by good barrel design. Cook off can be solved by not using nitrocellulose based propellants, using multiple chambers and/or by restricting the firing modes.

You seem to be blowing everything out of proportion. A cook off more than likely won't cause a rifle to explode like a grenade, and the problem off the barrel overheating hasn't seemed to have affected the LSAT much. Even with the polymer cases, it would feature the same problem you're proposing - plastic is an insulator and so the barrel gets more heat than with a brass case - but that doesn't seem to have been a significant problem so far.

.-. So instead of a dirt cheap even a primer a material that a third world country can afford you would need either find another naturally occuring mixture to act as primer in Your rounds or you would need to artifically create it. So then you have the expense of an an entire Arsenal being reinforced with this crap.

The construction of temperature resistant combustible primers and even HITPs are well known and publicly available if you know where to look. They'll make the round more expensive than conventional or plastic cased ammunition, but when compared to the cost of maintaining a massive flock of stealth fighters, armadas of battleships and hordes of tanks with ETC guns, it's tiny. The cost was certainly low enough for the West German government to seriously consider the concept prior to the end of the Cold War.

In fact i would assume that you would need to begin reinforcing the barrels and lengthing the width of the damn thing because i heard one of you lot said you were using telescoped rounds? I have heard tale of those things literally jamming within the barrel and catching flame neat trick but not useful on a battle field.

Probably not. Barrels are already pretty strong, and the consolidated, high energy propellant actually reduces the length and diameter of the round compared to conventional ammunition. For a long while, the LSAT CL round was both shorter and slimmer than both the PCT round and the conventional brass round.

Any links to your source on TCLA jamming in barrels and catching on fire?

And finally as stated previously it would dramatically depend upon the Polymer chosen for round casings and the expense in producing it and or using it. I have heard some odd choices to be used for polymer rounds secondly know i really think about Polymer rounds wouldn't you need to resize the magazine on existing firearms to contain them? So apart from the debatable expenses of this, You would most likely need to begin to just refit your entire Military firearms to use the thing; I don't know to be honest i never shot one but i have heard of them being unable to fire and or fit within Magazines before.

There are several kinds of polymer cases being developed right now, with two main focuses. The first is to replace conventional cased ammunition with a polymer case but to maintain current weapons systems. So far that's coming along well, offering both weight and cost savings. It can also be used in unmodified magazines and rifles.

The other approach is to create a new round for a new weapon. The LSAT is the most current example of this, with it's polymer cased telescoped ammunition. Not only is a complete round 40% lighter than a standard M855 round while offering the same performance, it also occupies less volume. If a new weapon is to be selected, this would be the best opportunity to change over to this kind of ammunition.

My Army will be supplied with an RPG, Calico M960, Bersa Thunder 380, 4 hand grenades, 3 flash grenades, and 4 smoke grenades.

However Civilians are promoted to use weapons for protection only and not for hunting...

These are our country's prices on some of our finest weapons produced or traded

Taurus PT 92- 15,000$

Arsenal P-M02 Compact Pistol 9,000$

SIG 556 Semi-Automatic Rifle- 23,000$

Ruger PC-4- 16,000$

TPD AXR Rifle- 26,000$

Beretta CX4 Storm Carbine- 28,000$

Civilians are only allowed gun permits after a valid ID is shown, a CLEAN criminal record (excluding speeding) and over the age of 21, which is the legal age in Shefitha.

However both our military and civilians use a variety of weapons from many different nations, however these are most common.

Cool. I'll just lay down suppressive fire from 800 metres or so with my SAW, marksman and grenadier, and let the rest of my men get to within three hundred metres or so, where they can mop up any survivors.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

My Army will be supplied with an RPG, Calico M960, Bersa Thunder 380, 4 hand grenades, 3 flash grenades, and 4 smoke grenades.

However Civilians are promoted to use weapons for protection only and not for hunting...

These are our country's prices on some of our finest weapons produced or traded

Taurus PT 92- 15,000$

Arsenal P-M02 Compact Pistol 9,000$

SIG 556 Semi-Automatic Rifle- 23,000$

Ruger PC-4- 16,000$

TPD AXR Rifle- 26,000$

Beretta CX4 Storm Carbine- 28,000$

Civilians are only allowed gun permits after a valid ID is shown, a CLEAN criminal record (excluding speeding) and over the age of 21, which is the legal age in Shefitha.

However both our military and civilians use a variety of weapons from many different nations, however these are most common.

Might I suggest some weapons capable of killing people?

[Puzikas]

Ehhh...Why not.

My country has just come out of a revolution, and with that in mind we have started re-building a military force. Currently our infantry comes from all walks of life, from various rebel groups and from areas that require different tools for different jobs. And with them, they bring a variety of weapons. An attempt at standardization is being made in each category.

The standard infantry weapons are, unfortunately, the most common rifles we have in country. ComBloc AK-74 series, 5.45 caliber seems to be the most common of these rifles, and one everyone is inherently familiar with. Most of these rifles are in 60% condition and require serious work to bring them back up to a rifle for a standard army. Many are imports from Russia, Romania, China, Bulgaria, Poland, and even some Ukrainian made rifles. As standardization is being implemented, we are finding that against the background the 7.62 series still seems to be in with many of the soldiers who find 5.45 "Just doesn't get the job done".

In an effort to arm marksman with the best we have, an old rifle that was produced before the revolution is being issued and re-built. The SLAR-60 is a 7.62x51 NATO/.308 chambered, select fire battle rifle. First adopted in 1960 by the government forces, the rifle was produced for only 7 years, but in those 7 years over 1.4 million were produced. Feeding from a 20 round magazine, the roller-delayed blowback rifle has a 19.5 inch barrel. By use of picatinny rails or Soviet-style side rails, it can attach a wide range of optics. It features last-bolt hold open as a standard in all rifles. Variations include the SLAR-60S, a version with an inter graded bi-pod and a bull barrel for full automatic fire, the SLAR-MR, with a 24 inch barrel for marksmen. the SLAR-612, the most modern version, is made out of Plastics and alloys to cut on weight. The military has interest in adopting a more intermediate round, but presently funding is not going its way, despite active conscription.

[Nua Corda]

Ehhh...Why not.

My country has just come out of a revolution, and with that in mind we have started re-building a military force. Currently our infantry comes from all walks of life, from various rebel groups and from areas that require different tools for different jobs. And with them, they bring a variety of weapons. An attempt at standardization is being made in each category.

The standard infantry weapons are, unfortunately, the most common rifles we have in country. ComBloc AK-74 series, 5.45 caliber seems to be the most common of these rifles, and one everyone is inherently familiar with. Most of these rifles are in 60% condition and require serious work to bring them back up to a rifle for a standard army. Many are imports from Russia, Romania, China, Bulgaria, Poland, and even some Ukrainian made rifles. As standardization is being implemented, we are finding that against the background the 7.62 series still seems to be in with many of the soldiers who find 5.45 "Just doesn't get the job done".

In an effort to arm marksman with the best we have, an old rifle that was produced before the revolution is being issued and re-built. The SLAR-60 is a 7.62x51 NATO/.308 chambered, select fire battle rifle. First adopted in 1960 by the government forces, the rifle was produced for only 7 years, but in those 7 years over 1.4 million were produced. Feeding from a 20 round magazine, the roller-delayed blowback rifle has a 19.5 inch barrel. By use of picatinny rails in addition to Soviet-style side rails, it can attach a wide range of optics. It features last-bolt hold open as a standard in all rifles. Variations include the SLAR-60S, a version with an inter graded bi-pod and a bull barrel for full automatic fire, the SLAR-MR, with a 24 inch barrel for marksmen. the SLAR-612, the most modern version, is made out of Plastics and alloys to cut on weight. The military has interest in adopting a more intermediate round, but presently funding is not going its way, despite active conscription.

Pretty good, far better than most of the weenies that come in here. One thing though; the only reason to use a Russian side rail is if your receiver cover is not secure enough for Picatinny rails. Most AK-series weapons have a receiver cover that is incredibly loose, and stubbornly refuses to hold zero. Rather than re-designing the receiver, the Ruskies took a short cut and developed a optic mount that attaches to the side of the receiver, and curves over the top. Since you say your design can use picatinny rails, the russian rail is redundant.

[Eastern Slavia]

it's always good to have cross-compatibility with optics. Also, AK/SVD mounts allow usage of ironsights with the optic still attached generally.



The standard issued East Slav AK-12

use both for maximum modularity /tactilol

[Kresovna]

The Kresovnan Army uses the vz. 58 assault rifle

[Aqizithiuda]

Okay, so I'm having a bit of a dilemma right now. Since I decided not to use the 4.6mm Interdynamic, the weight of my combined rifle has shot up drastically (not helped at all by the realisation that there was an error in the DTIC pdf on the Olin SPIW launcher), to 4.4kg (rifle action + loaded launcher + fully loaded 30 round mag). Now I need to work out the weight of the furniture to house everything. Based on the Wincehster Light Rifle's furniture (I'm using the WLR as the basis for my KE component), the furniture for the basic rifle would be 635 grams. Of course, that's wood, not high impact polymer. So, the question I have is this: what kind of weight reduction would I see changing from wood (American walnut to be specific) to some kind of high impact resistant polymer? I'd really like to keep the weight below 5kg, to reduce weight compared to the previous issue battle rifle and so that the optics added on later don't make the rifle too heavy.

[The Zeonic States]

From everything i have heard that is one of the major drawbacks of the rounds. The increasing heat temperature in the barrel which eventually causes a warping of the barrel or even worse a cookup turning a soldier's rifle into a hand grenade. Some manufactors of firearms even went to the length of making a Round's primer not as heat sensitive. But that doesn't change the fact some guns with extremely high rates of fire would still see the issue of heat remain, because with out the "casing" the Heat will remained trapped within the barrel until it warps or melts.

Just like with any other rifle. Heating off the barrel can be mitigated by good training, restricted firing modes and by good barrel design. Cook off can be solved by not using nitrocellulose based propellants, using multiple chambers and/or by restricting the firing modes.

You seem to be blowing everything out of proportion. A cook off more than likely won't cause a rifle to explode like a grenade, and the problem off the barrel overheating hasn't seemed to have affected the LSAT much. Even with the polymer cases, it would feature the same problem you're proposing - plastic is an insulator and so the barrel gets more heat than with a brass case - but that doesn't seem to have been a significant problem so far.

.-. So instead of a dirt cheap even a primer a material that a third world country can afford you would need either find another naturally occuring mixture to act as primer in Your rounds or you would need to artifically create it. So then you have the expense of an an entire Arsenal being reinforced with this crap.

The construction of temperature resistant combustible primers and even HITPs are well known and publicly available if you know where to look. They'll make the round more expensive than conventional or plastic cased ammunition, but when compared to the cost of maintaining a massive flock of stealth fighters, armadas of battleships and hordes of tanks with ETC guns, it's tiny. The cost was certainly low enough for the West German government to seriously consider the concept prior to the end of the Cold War.

In fact i would assume that you would need to begin reinforcing the barrels and lengthing the width of the damn thing because i heard one of you lot said you were using telescoped rounds? I have heard tale of those things literally jamming within the barrel and catching flame neat trick but not useful on a battle field.

Probably not. Barrels are already pretty strong, and the consolidated, high energy propellant actually reduces the length and diameter of the round compared to conventional ammunition. For a long while, the LSAT CL round was both shorter and slimmer than both the PCT round and the conventional brass round.

Any links to your source on TCLA jamming in barrels and catching on fire?

And finally as stated previously it would dramatically depend upon the Polymer chosen for round casings and the expense in producing it and or using it. I have heard some odd choices to be used for polymer rounds secondly know i really think about Polymer rounds wouldn't you need to resize the magazine on existing firearms to contain them? So apart from the debatable expenses of this, You would most likely need to begin to just refit your entire Military firearms to use the thing; I don't know to be honest i never shot one but i have heard of them being unable to fire and or fit within Magazines before.

There are several kinds of polymer cases being developed right now, with two main focuses. The first is to replace conventional cased ammunition with a polymer case but to maintain current weapons systems. So far that's coming along well, offering both weight and cost savings. It can also be used in unmodified magazines and rifles.

The other approach is to create a new round for a new weapon. The LSAT is the most current example of this, with it's polymer cased telescoped ammunition. Not only is a complete round 40% lighter than a standard M855 round while offering the same performance, it also occupies less volume. If a new weapon is to be selected, this would be the best opportunity to change over to this kind of ammunition.

My Army will be supplied with an RPG, Calico M960, Bersa Thunder 380, 4 hand grenades, 3 flash grenades, and 4 smoke grenades.

However Civilians are promoted to use weapons for protection only and not for hunting...

These are our country's prices on some of our finest weapons produced or traded

Taurus PT 92- 15,000$

Arsenal P-M02 Compact Pistol 9,000$

SIG 556 Semi-Automatic Rifle- 23,000$

Ruger PC-4- 16,000$

TPD AXR Rifle- 26,000$

Beretta CX4 Storm Carbine- 28,000$

Civilians are only allowed gun permits after a valid ID is shown, a CLEAN criminal record (excluding speeding) and over the age of 21, which is the legal age in Shefitha.

However both our military and civilians use a variety of weapons from many different nations, however these are most common.

Cool. I'll just lay down suppressive fire from 800 metres or so with my SAW, marksman and grenadier, and let the rest of my men get to within three hundred metres or so, where they can mop up any survivors.

Yeah, Yeah the heat issue is not really an issue unless if a soldier needs to fire repeatedly in fully automatic. What occurs when that situation happens? What happens if they need supression and are forced to fire repeatedly? The situation is not very far fetched but i would agree training would be a benifit until a situation that required continous fire surfaced. Secondly i mentioned the propellent change which i looked into by the way non-crystalline explosives to be used generally are much more expensive then Crystalline explosives due to the relative commoness of the material used in arms production its been the main stay for decades after all.

And secondly no; I cannot find anything Military related on it failing but there are several blogs out there of people who don't think much of it. Having issues with it, I am certain if you poked around you would people who wouldn't accept the things for free due to issues with nonfiring rounds and such. Still i would maintain my position of being anti Polymer due to far more practical reasons then the techolgy it self possibly being faulty. I prefer Brass due to my press operating on the Material, I personally couldn't construct Polymer rounds i lack the equipment to use it so Yeah practical.

On another note do you have anything disproving the rounds not firing, not being able to be loaded and or catching fire? I am speaking of the telescoped rounds here. I mean you asked me for Proof based upon my statement do you HAVE proof to disprove it? I didn't cite a source for a reason, It was Hersay but i will assume that some of it was possibly true until proven otherwise but the caseless stuff? I have not cared for that idea for a while now.

The expense of the propellent, the reloading and heating issues just problem after problem even if it does solve a weight issue or two i don't think the trade off's are worth it personally.

So in short it may have benifits and downsides but i personally prefer the existing Round style to the possible new one even if the Polymer round did impress me on the IWS 2000 i won't lie and say it didn't do the job because it did just it and caseless rounds just have too many issues and expenses attacted to them at the moment for me to personally be interested.

[Puzikas]

Ehhh...Why not.

My country has just come out of a revolution, and with that in mind we have started re-building a military force. Currently our infantry comes from all walks of life, from various rebel groups and from areas that require different tools for different jobs. And with them, they bring a variety of weapons. An attempt at standardization is being made in each category.

The standard infantry weapons are, unfortunately, the most common rifles we have in country. ComBloc AK-74 series, 5.45 caliber seems to be the most common of these rifles, and one everyone is inherently familiar with. Most of these rifles are in 60% condition and require serious work to bring them back up to a rifle for a standard army. Many are imports from Russia, Romania, China, Bulgaria, Poland, and even some Ukrainian made rifles. As standardization is being implemented, we are finding that against the background the 7.62 series still seems to be in with many of the soldiers who find 5.45 "Just doesn't get the job done".

In an effort to arm marksman with the best we have, an old rifle that was produced before the revolution is being issued and re-built. The SLAR-60 is a 7.62x51 NATO/.308 chambered, select fire battle rifle. First adopted in 1960 by the government forces, the rifle was produced for only 7 years, but in those 7 years over 1.4 million were produced. Feeding from a 20 round magazine, the roller-delayed blowback rifle has a 19.5 inch barrel. By use of picatinny rails in addition to Soviet-style side rails, it can attach a wide range of optics. It features last-bolt hold open as a standard in all rifles. Variations include the SLAR-60S, a version with an inter graded bi-pod and a bull barrel for full automatic fire, the SLAR-MR, with a 24 inch barrel for marksmen. the SLAR-612, the most modern version, is made out of Plastics and alloys to cut on weight. The military has interest in adopting a more intermediate round, but presently funding is not going its way, despite active conscription.

Pretty good, far better than most of the weenies that come in here. One thing though; the only reason to use a Russian side rail is if your receiver cover is not secure enough for Picatinny rails. Most AK-series weapons have a receiver cover that is incredibly loose, and stubbornly refuses to hold zero. Rather than re-designing the receiver, the Ruskies took a short cut and developed a optic mount that attaches to the side of the receiver, and curves over the top. Since you say your design can use picatinny rails, the russian rail is redundant.

I meant to say they come in both version, my mistake! Thank you for pointing that out for me.

[Aqizithiuda]

Yeah, Yeah the heat issue is not really an issue unless if a soldier needs to fire repeatedly in fully automatic. What occurs when that situation happens? What happens if they need supression and are forced to fire repeatedly? The situation is not very far fetched but i would agree training would be a benifit until a situation that required continous fire surfaced. Secondly i mentioned the propellent change which i looked into by the way non-crystalline explosives to be used generally are much more expensive then Crystalline explosives due to the relative commoness of the material used in arms production its been the main stay for decades after all.

Then limit the gun to firing single rounds. It never did the British or Australians any harm in the jungle wars they fought. Suppressing fire from a rifle shouldn't cause overheating anyway.

And secondly no; I cannot find anything Military related on it failing but there are several blogs out there of people who don't think much of it. Having issues with it, I am certain if you poked around you would people who wouldn't accept the things for free due to issues with nonfiring rounds and such. Still i would maintain my position of being anti Polymer due to far more practical reasons then the techolgy it self possibly being faulty. I prefer Brass due to my press operating on the Material, I personally couldn't construct Polymer rounds i lack the equipment to use it so Yeah practical.

Wait, are you talking IC or OOC here? IC, unless you're some backwater 3rd world shithole you should be able to construct polymer rounds.

On another note do you have anything disproving the rounds not firing, not being able to be loaded and or catching fire? I am speaking of the telescoped rounds here. I mean you asked me for Proof based upon my statement do you HAVE proof to disprove it? I didn't cite a source for a reason, It was Hersay but i will assume that some of it was possibly true until proven otherwise but the caseless stuff? I have not cared for that idea for a while now.

Well, there's the fact that the LSAT is at TRL 7 and could be fielded at any time, or that the main issues with the GAU-7's round were vulnerability to climatic variations and issues with sealing the chamber, not extraction/ignition issues (pg 88 of the document).

The expense of the propellent, the reloading and heating issues just problem after problem even if it does solve a weight issue or two i don't think the trade off's are worth it personally.So in short it may have benifits and downsides but i personally prefer the existing Round style to the possible new one even if the Polymer round did impress me on the IWS 2000 i won't lie and say it didn't do the job because it did just it and caseless rounds just have too many issues and expenses attacted to them at the moment for me to personally be interested.

I still don't see the reloading and heating issues.

[The Zeonic States]

Yeah, Yeah the heat issue is not really an issue unless if a soldier needs to fire repeatedly in fully automatic. What occurs when that situation happens? What happens if they need supression and are forced to fire repeatedly? The situation is not very far fetched but i would agree training would be a benifit until a situation that required continous fire surfaced. Secondly i mentioned the propellent change which i looked into by the way non-crystalline explosives to be used generally are much more expensive then Crystalline explosives due to the relative commoness of the material used in arms production its been the main stay for decades after all.

Then limit the gun to firing single rounds. It never did the British or Australians any harm in the jungle wars they fought. Suppressing fire from a rifle shouldn't cause overheating anyway.

And secondly no; I cannot find anything Military related on it failing but there are several blogs out there of people who don't think much of it. Having issues with it, I am certain if you poked around you would people who wouldn't accept the things for free due to issues with nonfiring rounds and such. Still i would maintain my position of being anti Polymer due to far more practical reasons then the techolgy it self possibly being faulty. I prefer Brass due to my press operating on the Material, I personally couldn't construct Polymer rounds i lack the equipment to use it so Yeah practical.

Wait, are you talking IC or OOC here? IC, unless you're some backwater 3rd world shithole you should be able to construct polymer rounds.

On another note do you have anything disproving the rounds not firing, not being able to be loaded and or catching fire? I am speaking of the telescoped rounds here. I mean you asked me for Proof based upon my statement do you HAVE proof to disprove it? I didn't cite a source for a reason, It was Hersay but i will assume that some of it was possibly true until proven otherwise but the caseless stuff? I have not cared for that idea for a while now.

Well, there's the fact that the LSAT is at TRL 7 and could be fielded at any time, or that the main issues with the GAU-7's round were vulnerability to climatic variations and issues with sealing the chamber, not extraction/ignition issues (pg 88 of the document).

The expense of the propellent, the reloading and heating issues just problem after problem even if it does solve a weight issue or two i don't think the trade off's are worth it personally.So in short it may have benifits and downsides but i personally prefer the existing Round style to the possible new one even if the Polymer round did impress me on the IWS 2000 i won't lie and say it didn't do the job because it did just it and caseless rounds just have too many issues and expenses attacted to them at the moment for me to personally be interested.

I still don't see the reloading and heating issues.

I was speaking of myself actually with that comment: I have a press and i cast my own rounds i couldn't do Polymer. Don't have the equipment for it personally. My Nation could switch over to caseless and Polymer but it won't most of it's Arms stores are from the cold war after all that's why we can use HE all day instead of depleted uranium because until about a decade ago that was the only speicality round apart from AA or AP that got made was HE. Besides our Inventory of Arms wouldn't exactly be cheap to switch over to caseless from cased.

Some of our modern arms could be switched over sure but AK-47's and such? Which while are not in General service we do have truckloads of. The AN-94 and G36 though i suppose could be switched over to caseless but i don't see the point at the moment, Their current kit works out well enough.

You don't see the heating issues though? I guess if you were willing to switch the propellent and coat the round in something so it wouldn't warp or misfire due to Heat it wouldn't be an issue but my entire point was if you didn't and that's just added expense to an idea that already demands too much money.

[Aqizithiuda]

Then limit the gun to firing single rounds. It never did the British or Australians any harm in the jungle wars they fought. Suppressing fire from a rifle shouldn't cause overheating anyway.



Wait, are you talking IC or OOC here? IC, unless you're some backwater 3rd world shithole you should be able to construct polymer rounds.



Well, there's the fact that the LSAT is at TRL 7 and could be fielded at any time, or that the main issues with the GAU-7's round were vulnerability to climatic variations and issues with sealing the chamber, not extraction/ignition issues (pg 88 of the document).



I still don't see the reloading and heating issues.

I was speaking of myself actually with that comment: I have a press and i cast my own rounds i couldn't do Polymer. Don't have the equipment for it personally. My Nation could switch over to caseless and Polymer but it won't most of it's Arms stores are from the cold war after all that's why we can use HE all day instead of depleted uranium because until about a decade ago that was the only speicality round apart from AA or AP that got made was HE. Besides our Inventory of Arms wouldn't exactly be cheap to switch over to caseless from cased.

Some of our modern arms could be switched over sure but AK-47's and such? Which while are not in General service we do have truckloads of. The AN-94 and G36 though i suppose could be switched over to caseless but i don't see the point at the moment, Their current kit works out well enough.

You don't see the heating issues though? I guess if you were willing to switch the propellent and coat the round in something so it wouldn't warp or misfire due to Heat it wouldn't be an issue but my entire point was if you didn't and that's just added expense to an idea that already demands too much money.

Polymer ammunition can be made for just about all small arms, providing an decrease in weight. Conventional rifles, however, canjot fire caseless ammo.

HITP propellants don't need any coating to protect from warping, while plastic cased ammo is superior to brass in its ability to resist cook off.

[The Zeonic States]

I was speaking of myself actually with that comment: I have a press and i cast my own rounds i couldn't do Polymer. Don't have the equipment for it personally. My Nation could switch over to caseless and Polymer but it won't most of it's Arms stores are from the cold war after all that's why we can use HE all day instead of depleted uranium because until about a decade ago that was the only speicality round apart from AA or AP that got made was HE. Besides our Inventory of Arms wouldn't exactly be cheap to switch over to caseless from cased.

Some of our modern arms could be switched over sure but AK-47's and such? Which while are not in General service we do have truckloads of. The AN-94 and G36 though i suppose could be switched over to caseless but i don't see the point at the moment, Their current kit works out well enough.

You don't see the heating issues though? I guess if you were willing to switch the propellent and coat the round in something so it wouldn't warp or misfire due to Heat it wouldn't be an issue but my entire point was if you didn't and that's just added expense to an idea that already demands too much money.

Polymer ammunition can be made for just about all small arms, providing an decrease in weight. Conventional rifles, however, canjot fire caseless ammo.

HITP propellants don't need any coating to protect from warping, while plastic cased ammo is superior to brass in its ability to resist cook off.

Most of the forums and such i found on the plastic's ability to withstand heat stated it wouldn't cook off before brass and none mentioned that it would do so after Brass had already ruptured. Brass has a fairly moderate melting point or even stress point when it comes to Heat and i am certain that some varients of plastic could in fact match or even excede depending upon the Material but i wouldn't accept that it would be much cheaper then brass, I have seen the price tags on heat resistant material before.

[Aqizithiuda]

Polymer ammunition can be made for just about all small arms, providing an decrease in weight. Conventional rifles, however, canjot fire caseless ammo.

HITP propellants don't need any coating to protect from warping, while plastic cased ammo is superior to brass in its ability to resist cook off.

Most of the forums and such i found on the plastic's ability to withstand heat stated it wouldn't cook off before brass and none mentioned that it would do so after Brass had already ruptured. Brass has a fairly moderate melting point or even stress point when it comes to Heat and i am certain that some varients of plastic could in fact match or even excede depending upon the Material but i wouldn't accept that it would be much cheaper then brass, I have seen the price tags on heat resistant material before.

*sigh*

I'm on my phome right now, so linking is hard right now, but i poatwd a link earlier on that proves the reduced cost of polymer ammunition.

[The Zeonic States]

Most of the forums and such i found on the plastic's ability to withstand heat stated it wouldn't cook off before brass and none mentioned that it would do so after Brass had already ruptured. Brass has a fairly moderate melting point or even stress point when it comes to Heat and i am certain that some varients of plastic could in fact match or even excede depending upon the Material but i wouldn't accept that it would be much cheaper then brass, I have seen the price tags on heat resistant material before.

*sigh*

I'm on my phome right now, so linking is hard right now, but i poatwd a link earlier on that proves the reduced cost of polymer ammunition.

If it was that colt link it didn't provide any detail on the exact material used it was just broad statements of superiority.

[San-Silvacian]

Why I'm going to hold back with joining the military for a while.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Why I'm going to hold back with joining the military for a while.

They can't draft nor take me if I enlist! I got autism and a hearing aid!

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Why I'm going to hold back with joining the military for a while.

You do of course realise that such operations in Africa and the Middle East involve precisely no US boots on the ground? Just advisers and special forces.

[The Zeonic States]

Why I'm going to hold back with joining the military for a while.

You do of course realise that such operations in Africa and the Middle East involve precisely no US boots on the ground? Just advisers and special forces.

Indeed you probably wouldn't see the same Sort of seizing and holding actions like in Iraq and Afganistan it would probably end up being more instructors and advisors.

Like those Russian Pilots and Officers in North Vietnamese Airforce bases.