Main Military Weapon of Your Country: Mk. VI

[Nua Corda]

No harder to reload than any other rifle. You just tilt it to the side rather than up.

See, I FIGURED that was the case!

Now, since you lot seem to be gun nuts, let me ask you this. Bullpup pistols, they seem pretty pointless right? I think I found a legitimate use for them.


1: Size. So, it's obviously a hefty sized gun. Why does this matter?

The point here, is to make a heavy pistol. Look at say, the 1911, or Desert Eagle. Prime examples of Heavy Pistols. The 1911 is a damn fine gun, but its mag is stupidly shallow. The Desert Eagle is a piece of junk that only CoD kids like, but the concept of a big ass round in a magazine fed handgun? Good idea.

Slap the mag in the back to offset the heavy barrel that exists to negate recoil, and while you have a heftier gun, you may have a steadier gun. The round pictured is just about rifle sized, and I think the barrel would be able to propel it at a decent velocity.

Mind you, my firearms are designed with caseless rounds fired magnetically. So some things may be different.

But I figured the design could be used for a true, modern heavy pistol. That mag, staggered, could comfortably fit maybe 12-15 rounds in there. It might be slightly more awkward to use than the P-3, but hey. Firepower.

Thoughts?

Speaking as someone who shoots M1911s, their front-heaviness is an asset. It drags the barrel down during recoil, helping to negate muzzle climb. As for bullpup pistols, all hail the Boberg:



And really, you dont need massive rounds. 10mm Auto is smaller than .45 ACP, but it's more powerful and accurate. Actually, what .45 ACP? 10mm Auto is the only pistol cartridge, ever.

[Orangi]

See, I FIGURED that was the case!

Now, since you lot seem to be gun nuts, let me ask you this. Bullpup pistols, they seem pretty pointless right? I think I found a legitimate use for them.


1: Size. So, it's obviously a hefty sized gun. Why does this matter?

The point here, is to make a heavy pistol. Look at say, the 1911, or Desert Eagle. Prime examples of Heavy Pistols. The 1911 is a damn fine gun, but its mag is stupidly shallow. The Desert Eagle is a piece of junk that only CoD kids like, but the concept of a big ass round in a magazine fed handgun? Good idea.

Slap the mag in the back to offset the heavy barrel that exists to negate recoil, and while you have a heftier gun, you may have a steadier gun. The round pictured is just about rifle sized, and I think the barrel would be able to propel it at a decent velocity.

Mind you, my firearms are designed with caseless rounds fired magnetically. So some things may be different.

But I figured the design could be used for a true, modern heavy pistol. That mag, staggered, could comfortably fit maybe 12-15 rounds in there. It might be slightly more awkward to use than the P-3, but hey. Firepower.

Thoughts?

Speaking as someone who shoots M1911s, their front-heaviness is an asset. It drags the barrel down during recoil, helping to negate muzzle climb. As for bullpup pistols, all hail the Boberg:



And really, you dont need massive rounds. 10mm Auto is smaller than .45 ACP, but it's more powerful and accurate. Actually, what .45 ACP? 10mm Auto is the only pistol cartridge, ever.

Yeah, front-heavyness IS a good thing, but having too MUCH weight..? I... Can't imagine that's great for user fatigue.

Infantry railguns aren't possible with modern technology, and a round of that size would make it no longer a pistol. There's really just no point because a pistol doesn't need to do what a rifle or SMG does.

Duh. Neither are starships of 10km size that enter FTL speeds to get to other worlds, but I use that too. *shrugs* Note, "Planet of Orangi"

[Indeos]

Infantry railguns aren't possible with modern technology, and a round of that size would make it no longer a pistol. There's really just no point because a pistol doesn't need to do what a rifle or SMG does.

Duh. Neither are starships of 10km size that enter FTL speeds to get to other worlds, but I use that too. *shrugs* Note, "Planet of Orangi"

I don't think it's a "legitimate use" if it relies on technology that hasn't been invented yet and has absolutely no point.

[Nua Corda]

Yeah, front-heavyness IS a good thing, but having too MUCH weight..? I... Can't imagine that's great for user fatigue."

A good 10mm M1911 weights ~2.5 lbs. Hardly a massive burden.

[Indeos]

Yeah, front-heavyness IS a good thing, but having too MUCH weight..? I... Can't imagine that's great for user fatigue."

A good 10mm M1911 weights ~2.5 lbs. Hardly a massive burden.

Especially since his proposed bullpup pistol would be much bigger and heavier.

[Nua Corda]

Actually, most automatic pistols are technically bullpup: their hammers and magazines are behind the trigger.

[Orangi]

Duh. Neither are starships of 10km size that enter FTL speeds to get to other worlds, but I use that too. *shrugs* Note, "Planet of Orangi"

I don't think it's a "legitimate use" if it relies on technology that hasn't been invented yet and has absolutely no point.

Eh. It's for a project of mine.

A good 10mm M1911 weights ~2.5 lbs. Hardly a massive burden.

Especially since his proposed bullpup pistol would be much bigger and heavier.

Okay, that DOES kind of groin punch my point, doesn't it?

Hmm. Well, it's been... Some time since I fired a pistol, so it's all very, very sketchy to me. I miss it though. 'Twas fun.

...AND THEN Nua Corda comes in with a good point. Well, let's try even MORE bullpup. Ya' can't get a comfortable grip with a round THAT huge.

[Nua Corda]

But you dont need a round that huge. My FT railgunz fire 5, 8 or 10mm slugs, never more than 20 or 30mm long. In MT, 10mm Auto is best pistol round, and fits perfectly in M1911z

[Indeos]

I don't think it's a "legitimate use" if it relies on technology that hasn't been invented yet and has absolutely no point.

Eh. It's for a project of mine.

Especially since his proposed bullpup pistol would be much bigger and heavier.

Okay, that DOES kind of groin punch my point, doesn't it?

Hmm. Well, it's been... Some time since I fired a pistol, so it's all very, very sketchy to me. I miss it though. 'Twas fun.

...AND THEN Nua Corda comes in with a good point. Well, let's try even MORE bullpup. Ya' can't get a comfortable grip with a round THAT huge.

You don't need a huge round. Pistols are largely useless in the military anyway; making them bigger and heavier just means less carried ammo for the primary, useful weapon. A sidearm should be as light as is reasonable, and use the smallest possible round that can be used. 10mm Auto is basically the biggest acceptable, but tbh a pistol in something like 7.92 VBR would be better because it's a much smaller, lighter round. (Since it's a PDW round it's basically the bastard child of a rifle and a pistol.)

[Orangi]

But you dont need a round that huge. My FT railgunz fire 5, 8 or 10mm slugs, never more than 20 or 30mm long. In MT, 10mm Auto is best pistol round, and fits perfectly in M1911z

Yeah, but at the same time, y'aint dealing with magnetic repulsion armor and whatnot. Kevlar seems to be the biggest worry.

Ugh, future tech. Sometimes it's a pain in the rectum. Regarding this stuff- considered the rounds not just having a twist, but perhaps stabilization fins, basically making them flechettes? Thoughts?

"You don't need a huge round. Pistols are largely useless in the military anyway; making them bigger and heavier just means less carried ammo for the primary, useful weapon. A sidearm should be as light as is reasonable, and use the smallest possible round that can be used. 10mm Auto is basically the biggest acceptable, but tbh a pistol in something like 7.92 CBJ would be better because it's a much smaller, lighter round. (Since it's a PDW round it's basically the bastard child of a rifle and a pistol.)"

A somewhat fair point. Though the handgun pictured is designed for bodyguards of the Govt. leader, and to, in some situations, be used where rifles cannot be.

[Indeos]

But you dont need a round that huge. My FT railgunz fire 5, 8 or 10mm slugs, never more than 20 or 30mm long. In MT, 10mm Auto is best pistol round, and fits perfectly in M1911z

Yeah, but at the same time, y'aint dealing with magnetic repulsion armor and whatnot. Kevlar seems to be the biggest worry.

Ugh, future tech. Sometimes it's a pain in the rectum. Regarding this stuff- considered the rounds not just having a twist, but perhaps stabilization fins, basically making them flechettes? Thoughts?

"You don't need a huge round. Pistols are largely useless in the military anyway; making them bigger and heavier just means less carried ammo for the primary, useful weapon. A sidearm should be as light as is reasonable, and use the smallest possible round that can be used. 10mm Auto is basically the biggest acceptable, but tbh a pistol in something like 7.92 CBJ would be better because it's a much smaller, lighter round. (Since it's a PDW round it's basically the bastard child of a rifle and a pistol.)"

A somewhat fair point. Though the handgun pictured is designed for bodyguards of the Govt. leader, and to, in some situations, be used where rifles cannot be.

Why aren't they using a bullpup carbine instead of a stupidly large "pistol" that fires rifle rounds? It wouldn't be very controllable without a stock, and it's so large and heavy that there's basically no point in calling it a pistol anymore. It's really just a stockless carbine at this point.

[Orangi]

Yeah, but at the same time, y'aint dealing with magnetic repulsion armor and whatnot. Kevlar seems to be the biggest worry.

Ugh, future tech. Sometimes it's a pain in the rectum. Regarding this stuff- considered the rounds not just having a twist, but perhaps stabilization fins, basically making them flechettes? Thoughts?

"You don't need a huge round. Pistols are largely useless in the military anyway; making them bigger and heavier just means less carried ammo for the primary, useful weapon. A sidearm should be as light as is reasonable, and use the smallest possible round that can be used. 10mm Auto is basically the biggest acceptable, but tbh a pistol in something like 7.92 CBJ would be better because it's a much smaller, lighter round. (Since it's a PDW round it's basically the bastard child of a rifle and a pistol.)"

A somewhat fair point. Though the handgun pictured is designed for bodyguards of the Govt. leader, and to, in some situations, be used where rifles cannot be.

Why aren't they using a bullpup carbine instead of a stupidly large "pistol" that fires rifle rounds? It wouldn't be very controllable without a stock, and it's so large and heavy that there's basically no point in calling it a pistol anymore. It's really just a stockless carbine at this point.

Funny you'd mention that, the Blackguard (please, please forgive the unoriginal name) does in fact use a bullpup rifle known as the T-30 Halberd, Semi-Auto, with a two-round burst setting as well.

Regarding this pistol, I place it in that weird spot between PDW and pistol. Perhaps I'll reduce the theoretical weight of it.

[Indeos]

Why aren't they using a bullpup carbine instead of a stupidly large "pistol" that fires rifle rounds? It wouldn't be very controllable without a stock, and it's so large and heavy that there's basically no point in calling it a pistol anymore. It's really just a stockless carbine at this point.

Funny you'd mention that, the Blackguard (please, please forgive the unoriginal name) does in fact use a bullpup rifle known as the T-30 Halberd, Semi-Auto, with a two-round burst setting as well.

Regarding this pistol, I place it in that weird spot between PDW and pistol. Perhaps I'll reduce the theoretical weight of it.

I'll say this slowly and clearly. IT. FIRES. A. RIFLE. ROUND. This is going to make it stupidly big and heavy for no reason whatsoever, since it fills a role that apparently doesn't even exist. There's absolutely no practical value in your concept because it basically tries to do two jobs far worse than two things that already do those jobs.

Basically, you've taken the idea of a PDW and decided to replace the PDW round (which is supposed to be small and light) with a round that has more in common with .50 AE, then taken it all a step further into Deagle territory by making it a pistol instead of a folding-stock carbine.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

Re: long barrels and accuracy: although the barrel itself isn't going to improve accuracy, the increased velocity will in practice increase accuracy because a shorter flight means less time for the projectile to be effected by various environmental effects, most of which cannot be compensated for without careful observation and a ballistic computer.

[Orangi]

Funny you'd mention that, the Blackguard (please, please forgive the unoriginal name) does in fact use a bullpup rifle known as the T-30 Halberd, Semi-Auto, with a two-round burst setting as well.

Regarding this pistol, I place it in that weird spot between PDW and pistol. Perhaps I'll reduce the theoretical weight of it.

I'll say this slowly and clearly. IT. FIRES. A. RIFLE. ROUND. This is going to make it stupidly big and heavy for no reason whatsoever, since it fills a role that apparently doesn't even exist. There's absolutely no practical value in your concept because it basically tries to do two jobs far worse than two things that already do those jobs.

Ey, no need to bash it into my forehead. Besides, it ain't QUITE as big as a rifle round- pipe down though would'ja no need to be so hostile..!

As for doing the job poorly... Well considering it'd exist in at most, entertainment it can perform as well as I want it. However, I do thank you for the input. How much smaller would you recommend? For the round- barrel length stays because if nothing else, that looks pretty neat.

[Indeos]

I'll say this slowly and clearly. IT. FIRES. A. RIFLE. ROUND. This is going to make it stupidly big and heavy for no reason whatsoever, since it fills a role that apparently doesn't even exist. There's absolutely no practical value in your concept because it basically tries to do two jobs far worse than two things that already do those jobs.

Ey, no need to bash it into my forehead. Besides, it ain't QUITE as big as a rifle round- pipe down though would'ja no need to be so hostile..!

As for doing the job poorly... Well considering it'd exist in at most, entertainment it can perform as well as I want it. However, I do thank you for the input. How much smaller would you recommend? For the round- barrel length stays because if nothing else, that looks pretty neat.

You said "The round pictured is just about rifle sized". I assume this means O/A length is the same as a rifle round, when it should really be small enough to fit in the grip (because this makes the gun more space-efficient and easier to conceal). Diameter should be small enough that it can fit a relatively large number of rounds; IIRC 7.92 VBR pistols have 20 round capacity, and I know the Five-seveN has a 20-round magazine with 5.7mm ammo. (.45 ACP doublestacks are supposedly a bit thick, which means that around 10 or 11mm the diameter is too large.)

[Orangi]

Ey, no need to bash it into my forehead. Besides, it ain't QUITE as big as a rifle round- pipe down though would'ja no need to be so hostile..!

As for doing the job poorly... Well considering it'd exist in at most, entertainment it can perform as well as I want it. However, I do thank you for the input. How much smaller would you recommend? For the round- barrel length stays because if nothing else, that looks pretty neat.

You said "The round pictured is just about rifle sized". I assume this means O/A length is the same as a rifle round, when it should really be small enough to fit in the grip (because this makes the gun more space-efficient and easier to conceal). Diameter should be small enough that it can fit a relatively large number of rounds; IIRC 7.92 VBR pistols have 20 round capacity, and I know the Five-seveN has a 20-round magazine with 5.7mm ammo. (.45 ACP doublestacks are supposedly a bit thick, which means that around 10 or 11mm the diameter is too large.)

Hm, alright- I'll keep this in mind. That 5.7mm ammo- I hear a lot about it frankly. Must be some effective shit.

[Indeos]

You said "The round pictured is just about rifle sized". I assume this means O/A length is the same as a rifle round, when it should really be small enough to fit in the grip (because this makes the gun more space-efficient and easier to conceal). Diameter should be small enough that it can fit a relatively large number of rounds; IIRC 7.92 VBR pistols have 20 round capacity, and I know the Five-seveN has a 20-round magazine with 5.7mm ammo. (.45 ACP doublestacks are supposedly a bit thick, which means that around 10 or 11mm the diameter is too large.)

Hm, alright- I'll keep this in mind. That 5.7mm ammo- I hear a lot about it frankly. Must be some effective shit.

7.92 VBR is superior. It's the best PDW round in existence, partially thanks to ingenious bullet design.

[Aqizithiuda]

You said "The round pictured is just about rifle sized". I assume this means O/A length is the same as a rifle round, when it should really be small enough to fit in the grip (because this makes the gun more space-efficient and easier to conceal). Diameter should be small enough that it can fit a relatively large number of rounds; IIRC 7.92 VBR pistols have 20 round capacity, and I know the Five-seveN has a 20-round magazine with 5.7mm ammo. (.45 ACP doublestacks are supposedly a bit thick, which means that around 10 or 11mm the diameter is too large.)

Hm, alright- I'll keep this in mind. That 5.7mm ammo- I hear a lot about it frankly. Must be some effective shit.

Not really. Unless it's a hollowpoint/ballistic tipped version, the 5.7x28mm has questionable wounding power at best. The 7.92 VBR or the 6.5 CBJ are the only mainstream PDW rounds I would trust.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

The best PDW round in existence is 5.56 NATO.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[Aqizithiuda]

The best PDW round in existence is 5.56 NATO.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Why would we do that?

[Indeos]

The best PDW round in existence is 5.56 NATO.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Can't fit in a pistol grip and is therefore bad for concealing a firearm one one's person while retaining reasonable mag capacity, and it performs badly out of short barrels. (It's about 17mm longer overall than the longest PDW round [4.6 HK], and ~25mm longer than 7.92 VBR.)

The best PDW round in existence is 5.56 NATO.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Why would we do that?

To cover up the conspiracy that governs this thread and keeps Galla and Sen at the top of the totem pole while simultaneously oppressing Corda and anyone who doesn't agree with Galla and Sen.

[Galla-]

The best PDW round in existence is 5.56 NATO.

Tell me I'm wrong.

urrong

6.8 spc ):

[Aqizithiuda]

The best PDW round in existence is 5.56 NATO.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Can't fit in a pistol grip and is therefore bad for concealing a firearm one one's person while retaining reasonable mag capacity, and it performs badly out of short barrels. (It's about 17mm longer overall than the longest PDW round [4.6 HK], and ~25mm longer than 7.92 VBR.)

10" is plenty of length for superior performance to the 5.7x28mm, and the PDR provides a compact platform. Concealment isn't as big a factor as weight and compactness.

Why would we do that?

To cover up the conspiracy that governs this thread and keeps Galla and Sen at the top of the totem pole while simultaneously oppressing Corda and anyone who doesn't agree with Galla and Sen.

Ye gods, man! You know what the first rule of the conspiracy is!

[Indeos]

Can't fit in a pistol grip and is therefore bad for concealing a firearm one one's person while retaining reasonable mag capacity, and it performs badly out of short barrels. (It's about 17mm longer overall than the longest PDW round [4.6 HK], and ~25mm longer than 7.92 VBR.)

10" is plenty of length for superior performance to the 5.7x28mm, and the PDR provides a compact platform. Concealment isn't as big a factor as weight and compactness.

To cover up the conspiracy that governs this thread and keeps Galla and Sen at the top of the totem pole while simultaneously oppressing Corda and anyone who doesn't agree with Galla and Sen.

Ye gods, man! You know what the first rule of the conspiracy is!

Lies. Besides, that's literally the one PDW round I didn't name. Pretty sure 7.92 VBR would outperform 5.56 NATO at that length, and be far smaller and lighter even if it doesn't.