What is the main military weapon of your country?

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

[Fatatatutti]

You know, the UAWC will be happy to design a version of the Remora-12 to fit your specifications and to export into your fine country.

We don't import weapons. We gather intelligence on weapons from all around the world and the Takeapenny Arsenal incorporates whatever good ideas we find.

In any case, you don't seem to have the same appreciation for weight control - in arms and ammunition - that we do.

-- Gen. Castro-Stalina

[Uawc]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

Yes, and we do that. What were we arguing about again?

[Uawc]

You know, the UAWC will be happy to design a version of the Remora-12 to fit your specifications and to export into your fine country.

We don't import weapons. We gather intelligence on weapons from all around the world and the Takeapenny Arsenal incorporates whatever good ideas we find.

In any case, you don't seem to have the same appreciation for weight control - in arms and ammunition - that we do.

-- Gen. Castro-Stalina

That's fine. We'll design it anyway though, and likely implement it into our own forces; you are of course free to locally produce your own and/or change it however you like to suit your military's own preferences and purposes.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

Yes, and we do that. What were we arguing about again?

The fact that there are costs to making your rifle which are increased by the fact that it can be rechambered in three rounds (7.62x39, 5.8x42, 5.56x45) that all do the same job, especially the 5.56x45, and the 5.8x42.

[Crookfur]

When designing this we were trying to steer away from the M26 MASS because we thought bolt-action was a stupid idea for a shotgun and we wanted to be able to use it on the go, without the actual rifle when necessary. The M26 can be used on its own but you have to detach the parts and put them in your bag when you attach it to the rifle, so...we wanted to say "screw it" and make the process more simple. The result is a heavier weapon, but it's also got more magazine capacity, a much higher rate of fire and a much more simple overall weapon. We strongly suggest that your military use semi-auto for your underbarrel shotguns.

I have my misgivings about bolt-action too. If we're going to use the thing to give our point men an edge, as somebody mentioned above, a bolt action is going to need three hands.

But I sure as hell don't want that much weight hanging off the end of my rifle all the time. It shouldn't weigh any more than a grenade launcher - an unloaded grenade launcher because that's the way we carry them.

And I also don't want a stand-alone shotgun, so the pistol grip and stock are just dead weight to me. That's why I want to know what a barebones semi-auto would weigh.

(That is what I mean by a versatile weapon: a variety of minimal components that can be put together in a variety of configurations, not a heavy weapon that can have all sorts of other heavy stuff bolted on.)

-- Gen. Castro-Stalina

The weight of a semiauto underbarrel shotgun woudl depend on a number of factors and it is going to naturally be heavier than a comparable bolt or pump action.

But saying that depending on your barrel length and how many rounds you want to hold 1.5-2kg is defintiely doable if you were to base it off soem of the newer gas op sporting guns.

[Uawc]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

Yes, and we do that. What were we arguing about again?

The fact that there are costs to making your rifle which are increased by the fact that it can be rechambered in three rounds (7.62x39, 5.8x42, 5.56x45) that all do the same job, especially the 5.56x45, and the 5.8x42.

That's not how we see things here. Here, a 7.62 short does a different job than, say, 5.45. We use 7.62 short to "kill every MFer in the room" whereas we use 5.45 for more precise AR shots.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

Yes, and we do that. What were we arguing about again?

The fact that there are costs to making your rifle which are increased by the fact that it can be rechambered in three rounds (7.62x39, 5.8x42, 5.56x45) that all do the same job, especially the 5.56x45, and the 5.8x42.

That's not how we see things here. Here, a 7.62 short does a different job than, say, 5.45. We use 7.62 short to "kill every MFer in the room" whereas we use 5.45 for more precise AR shots.

The only problem is the 7.62 short can't "kill every MFer in the room". It goes straight through a person and causes little damage, I would much rather use a 5.45 in any situation over a 7.62 short.

[Solyhniya]

The UAWC has developed an experimental assault rifle.

The AURA assault rifle is designed to be a new, better alternative to the AK line. It fires a similar round (7.62x39mmC [UAWC version, optimized for fragmentation effect]), at the same old rate of 600 RPM, though the AURA introduces a three-round burst to go with the full and semi-automatic modes. It uses a double-stacked mag of 30 rounds. Though most old AK mags will fit, this one was designed specifically for this rifle. The AURA has a longer barrel than the AK-47 and a good detachable muzzle brake, giving it more accuracy and less recoil, something the AK-47 needed almost painfully. The AURA, like the AK, is gas-operated and fires from a rotating bolt. It also features a folding stock which is equipped with a nice, comfy cheek rest. Additionally, the AURA assault rifle features full compatibility with our Remora-12 shotgun attachment. The AURA will serve as a replacement for all standard configuration assault rifles in the UAWC.

Opinions, anyone?

Nice! It's a shame really, I recently opened a bidding thread requesting a foreign shotgun design for CQB ops. Too bad you didn't enter, else you'd have had 15mil Solyhniyan USD in your fist!

No but seriously, that Aura design is pretty tasty.

[Zanarkenis]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

Yes, and we do that. What were we arguing about again?

The fact that there are costs to making your rifle which are increased by the fact that it can be rechambered in three rounds (7.62x39, 5.8x42, 5.56x45) that all do the same job, especially the 5.56x45, and the 5.8x42.

That's not how we see things here. Here, a 7.62 short does a different job than, say, 5.45. We use 7.62 short to "kill every MFer in the room" whereas we use 5.45 for more precise AR shots.

The only problem is the 7.62 short can't "kill every MFer in the room". It goes straight through a person and causes little damage, I would much rather use a 5.45 in any situation over a 7.62 short.

From what I have heard here, the 7.62 is more useful as a sniper's round that an assault infantrymen's bullet.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

We have an economy, it's just moneyless. It works just fine.

/derail

My point is not about money, it is about supplies. Your people that mine your materials, and that make your guns require food, and shelter. Unless you provide them with those things they cannot work because they will be dead. So the very act of you giving them food, and or shelter is paying them, whether or not it is with money doesn't matter.

Yes, and we do that. What were we arguing about again?

The fact that there are costs to making your rifle which are increased by the fact that it can be rechambered in three rounds (7.62x39, 5.8x42, 5.56x45) that all do the same job, especially the 5.56x45, and the 5.8x42.

That's not how we see things here. Here, a 7.62 short does a different job than, say, 5.45. We use 7.62 short to "kill every MFer in the room" whereas we use 5.45 for more precise AR shots.

The only problem is the 7.62 short can't "kill every MFer in the room". It goes straight through a person and causes little damage, I would much rather use a 5.45 in any situation over a 7.62 short.

From what I have heard here, the 7.62 is more useful as a sniper's round that an assault infantrymen's bullet.

We are talking about the 7.62x39mm round.

[Zanarkenis]

The UAWC has developed an experimental assault rifle.

The AURA assault rifle is designed to be a new, better alternative to the AK line. It fires a similar round (7.62x39mmC [UAWC version, optimized for fragmentation effect]), at the same old rate of 600 RPM, though the AURA introduces a three-round burst to go with the full and semi-automatic modes. It uses a double-stacked mag of 30 rounds. Though most old AK mags will fit, this one was designed specifically for this rifle. The AURA has a longer barrel than the AK-47 and a good detachable muzzle brake, giving it more accuracy and less recoil, something the AK-47 needed almost painfully. The AURA, like the AK, is gas-operated and fires from a rotating bolt. It also features a folding stock which is equipped with a nice, comfy cheek rest. Additionally, the AURA assault rifle features full compatibility with our Remora-12 shotgun attachment. The AURA will serve as a replacement for all standard configuration assault rifles in the UAWC.

Opinions, anyone?

Nice! It's a shame really, I recently opened a bidding thread requesting a foreign shotgun design for CQB ops. Too bad you didn't enter, else you'd have had 15mil Solyhniyan USD in your fist!

No but seriously, that Aura design is pretty tasty.

He might have lost because his Remora attachment weight 4.8 pounds. With all that weight on the end of the gun, you would have to grip the Aura in a very precise manner in order to have decent aim with it during the inevitable up/down motion that having a such and heavy weight at the end combined with 7.62 mmC(it's was originally designed as a battle rifle round) which kicks more than assault round even with your modified version. If you didnot hold the weapon/ attachment precisely when using it, it could be all over the place.

[Arritus]

This is a working prototype of a new folding stock bullpup assault rifle, chambered in 5.8x42, though the calibre is being reviewed. This is a right hand only weapon, though the final product will not be. This was built mainly to test the folding stock system. A top rail has been installed on this model, but no other attachments are in place. Forward ejection is also being concidered. The gas parts run along side the barrel, to the right, so that the height of the gun can be kept down. This eliminates the common bullpup complaint that to fire one the head must be raised quite high, making an easier target. The final product will also include ambidexterous controls, quick change barrels and a more coherant reciever.



To fold the stock the bolt needs pulling back, but it can be held open whan back just far enough, to avoid too much tension on the springs for extended periods. A hand atop the stock can then release the catch and allow the stock to fold to the left side of the weapon (left so that it can be unfolded with a hand on the pistol grip). A dust cover has been designed that covers both openings when it is closed, but will 'pop' off by it'self if the rifle is unfolded. It hinges from perpendicular to the rifle, to cover the openings, to parrellel, against the right side of the unfolded stock, when not in use.

What are the thoughts of the experts of your respective nations, if you will offer such information, and what advice would you give on calibre and ejection system?

[Uawc]

The UAWC has developed a new underbarrel shotgun.

The Remora EBR semi-automatic shotgun is designed to be lighter than the Remora-12 shotgun of the same type and yet still pack the same punch. Unlike the Remora-12, however, it features no pistol grip or folding stock; the stock grip must be re-attached for the Remora-EBR to use it independently of the rifle it is partnered with. The "EBR" in the Remora-EBR's name means "Evil Black Rifle", a nickname for the AR-15 family which the Remora-EBR is platformed for. Like the Remora-12, the Remora-EBR fires all manner of 12-ga. and is very reliable and easy to maintain.

[Uawc]

The UAWC has developed an experimental assault rifle.

The AURA assault rifle is designed to be a new, better alternative to the AK line. It fires a similar round (7.62x39mmC [UAWC version, optimized for fragmentation effect]), at the same old rate of 600 RPM, though the AURA introduces a three-round burst to go with the full and semi-automatic modes. It uses a double-stacked mag of 30 rounds. Though most old AK mags will fit, this one was designed specifically for this rifle. The AURA has a longer barrel than the AK-47 and a good detachable muzzle brake, giving it more accuracy and less recoil, something the AK-47 needed almost painfully. The AURA, like the AK, is gas-operated and fires from a rotating bolt. It also features a folding stock which is equipped with a nice, comfy cheek rest. Additionally, the AURA assault rifle features full compatibility with our Remora-12 shotgun attachment. The AURA will serve as a replacement for all standard configuration assault rifles in the UAWC.

Opinions, anyone?

Nice! It's a shame really, I recently opened a bidding thread requesting a foreign shotgun design for CQB ops. Too bad you didn't enter, else you'd have had 15mil Solyhniyan USD in your fist!

No but seriously, that Aura design is pretty tasty.

If you like that, you'll love our AURA-7, our improved version.

Also, while our Remora-12 is good, our flagship weapon is the AMPS-S11 automatic shotgun. Fires all manner of 12-ga. from drum mags of 20 or 32. Has a quiet selector with manual safety, and can go semi or fully-automatic. In full-auto it fires at 400 RPM. It is also very comfortable to fire due to buffers and a really good stock. It is made mostly out of stainless steel and polymers; the internal design is very simple and the gun is very easy to clean and maintain with a long service life. Recoil is also very low, as it uses a system similar to the AA-12's. In fact, this is pretty much our own, improved version of the AA-12.

[Aridiya]

For those of you that are arguing about 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 6.8x43mm, and 5.8x42(Chinese), I have news for you. All these intermediate cartridges do the same thing. Bullet construction can increased penetration, OR cause larger wound channels. The bottom line is shot placement. Thats right, the marksman is more important than the hardware. If you can find ways to lighten the grunts(infantrymans) load, they will be grateful.

[Solyhniya]

++++++++++++AMPS-S11 automatic shotgun++++++++++++

...my pants suddenly feel quite tight...

WHY DIDN'T YOU ENTER MY COMPETITION?!?! YARRGH!!

Haha. On a serious note, is this design for sale? It would be even better for us to purchase a shotgun from a Socialist nation like UAWC.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

For those of you that are arguing about 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 6.8x43mm, and 5.8x42(Chinese), I have news for you. All these intermediate cartridges do the same thing. Bullet construction can increased penetration, OR cause larger wound channels. The bottom line is shot placement. Thats right, the marksman is more important than the hardware. If you can find ways to lighten the grunts(infantrymans) load, they will be grateful.

Using your logic the 7.62x39mm round is inferior because it is a low velocity round with a low ballistic coefficient meaning it loses velocity, and accuracy quickly.

[Uawc]

++++++++++++AMPS-S11 automatic shotgun++++++++++++

...my pants suddenly feel quite tight...

WHY DIDN'T YOU ENTER MY COMPETITION?!?! YARRGH!!

Haha. On a serious note, is this design for sale? It would be even better for us to purchase a shotgun from a Socialist nation like UAWC.

It is not in fact for sale, per se, but it is up for trade. We only engage in equal trade that benefits all; we do not seek profit and we do not use money. That said, we will gladly send you as many AMPS-S11 automatic shotguns as you like, as well as the shells, mags and attachments, for their equal weight in military-grade polymers and stainless steel.

[Solyhniya]

The ASL-24 (Avtomat Spaškov-Luk'janenko was designed four years ago by Nikolaj Spashkov, the ageing but ever-ingenious CEO of Spashkov Industries, Solyhniya's biggest arms manufacturer alongside "Sichovi Zavody"; and by Viktor Luk'janenko, a young yet experienced Solyhniya-Kurzhevsk war veteran.

It uses many of the features of Spashkov's older designs but is chambered in the 6.78 Solyhniyan, optimising between power and accuracy. It is an effective, medium-weight, medium-range rifle with optional rails for grenade launchers, laser sights and scopes and occupies the lucrative position of Solyhniya's main assault rifle.

OOC: I have a full arsenal designed. In reference to the title of this thread, is it relevant to share my other assault rifle, battle rifle, PDW and SMG designs here?

EDIT: carbine mistake fixed

[Bafuria]

This is the Elding HR-8
It's a 6.3x45mm gas-operated assault rifle, loosely based on the Kalashnikov series.

The now retired 7.62x51mm G3A3 was powerful, but too cumbersome; so a cheaper, lighter and a reasonably powerful rifle was developed.

[Solyhniya]

++++++++++++AMPS-S11 automatic shotgun++++++++++++

...my pants suddenly feel quite tight...

WHY DIDN'T YOU ENTER MY COMPETITION?!?! YARRGH!!

Haha. On a serious note, is this design for sale? It would be even better for us to purchase a shotgun from a Socialist nation like UAWC.

It is not in fact for sale, per se, but it is up for trade. We only engage in equal trade that benefits all; we do not seek profit and we do not use money. That said, we will gladly send you as many AMPS-S11 automatic shotguns as you like, as well as the shells, mags and attachments, for their equal weight in military-grade polymers and stainless steel.

It's a done deal. We wish to procure 1,500 units for Solynhiyan special forces, "Vlk" (Solyhniyan-Ruthenian for "wolf). The equivalent of the materials used, including a %10 bonus overall, will be shipped to the UAWC from the port city of Maryk.

[Uawc]

The ASL-24 (Avtomat Spaškov-Luk'janenko was designed four years ago by Nikolaj Spashkov, the ageing but ever-ingenious CEO of Spashkov Industries, Solyhniya's biggest arms manufacturer alongside "Sichovi Zavody"; and by Viktor Luk'janenko, a young yet experienced Solyhniya-Kurzhevsk war veteran.

It uses many of the features of Spashkov's older designs but is chambered in the 6.78 Solyhniyan, optimising between power and accuracy. It is an effective, medium-weight, medium-range rifle with optional rails for grenade launchers, laser sights and scopes and occupies the lucrative position of Solyhniya's main assault rifle.

OOC: I have a full arsenal designed. In reference to the title of this thread, is it relevant to share my other assault rifle, battle rifle, PDW and SMG designs here?

Very nice, very nice. The only suggestion I have is that you not put a scope on a carbine, which is what that essentially is, since the barrel is short. Carbines have lower power, range and accuracy due to their shorter barrels. If you want to call it a medium-range rifle, you'll need to lengthen that barrel.

Go ahead, share your other weapons, I'll be glad to see them.

[Uawc]

++++++++++++AMPS-S11 automatic shotgun++++++++++++

...my pants suddenly feel quite tight...

WHY DIDN'T YOU ENTER MY COMPETITION?!?! YARRGH!!

Haha. On a serious note, is this design for sale? It would be even better for us to purchase a shotgun from a Socialist nation like UAWC.

It is not in fact for sale, per se, but it is up for trade. We only engage in equal trade that benefits all; we do not seek profit and we do not use money. That said, we will gladly send you as many AMPS-S11 automatic shotguns as you like, as well as the shells, mags and attachments, for their equal weight in military-grade polymers and stainless steel.

It's a done deal. We wish to procure 1,500 units for Solynhiyan special forces, "Vlk" (Solyhniyan-Ruthenian for "wolf). The equivalent of the materials used, including a %10 bonus overall, will be shipped to the UAWC from the port city of Maryk.

We will gladly do this deal, and the bonus will be taken as labor pay. Please direct your ship to the port city of New Tripoli, on the western coast of our fine island. We will have the 1,500 shotguns waiting with all the accessories and mags you need. Thank you very much.

[Fatatatutti]

The 5.56x45mm round on the otherhand, while accurate, simply lacks sheer stopping power. Sure it'll create a round equivolent to a full power rifle round, however if you fire at non-essential parts of the human body like the leg, arms, etc. The man will still be alive, while a rifle round would outright kill them regardless of the shot. Considering the opportunity to fire at an exposed enemy torso or head, while the enemy is firing back is extremely rare, you want something that can kill if you only see a mans foot.

As much as I hate the thought of deliberately wounding instead of killing cleanly, I have to remind you that a wounded man is much more of a drain on your enemy's resources than a dead one.

-- Gen. Castro-Stalina