NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #2

[Puzikas]

Not enough range.
Creates more issues than it solves.

Evidently if you're operating in an area with such tight confinements and high probability of close range combat, the loss in range is worth it.
Besides, infantry rarely kill beyond three hundred meters, and most of their fire is suppressive.

its still a general requirement of every major military on the planet the weapon be lethal to at least 400 meters. And most SMGs are only effective to 120-150 meteres at most. Using a pistol round as a main service weapon, unless you RP as an absolutely massive city, is rather pointless. though if you are working in such close quarters, yes, a carbine or submachine gun would be beneficial.

[Rich and Corporations]

Evidently if you're operating in an area with such tight confinements and high probability of close range combat, the loss in range is worth it.
Besides, infantry rarely kill beyond three hundred meters, and most of their fire is suppressive.

its still a general requirement of every major military on the planet the weapon be lethal to at least 400 meters. And most SMGs are only effective to 120-150 meteres at most. Using a pistol round as a main service weapon, unless you RP as an absolutely massive city, is rather pointless. though if you are working in such close quarters, yes, a carbine or submachine gun would be beneficial.

The PPSh and the Red Army would naturally disagree with you.

[Puzikas]

its still a general requirement of every major military on the planet the weapon be lethal to at least 400 meters. And most SMGs are only effective to 120-150 meteres at most. Using a pistol round as a main service weapon, unless you RP as an absolutely massive city, is rather pointless. though if you are working in such close quarters, yes, a carbine or submachine gun would be beneficial.

The PPSh and the Red Army would naturally disagree with you.

That was a simple measure of "We have so many of these, and were fighting in this area (Stalingrad), we may as well issue these to entire regiment." The practice may have continued following that, but they were never unsupported by riflemen with M91/30s. The Shpaginas are one of, if not THE only case in history where a SMG has been issued enmass to a mobile ground force in a time of all out war.

[The Akasha Colony]

its still a general requirement of every major military on the planet the weapon be lethal to at least 400 meters. And most SMGs are only effective to 120-150 meteres at most. Using a pistol round as a main service weapon, unless you RP as an absolutely massive city, is rather pointless. though if you are working in such close quarters, yes, a carbine or submachine gun would be beneficial.

The PPSh and the Red Army would naturally disagree with you.

All told, the Red Army wasn't exactly picky about its weapons. If an entire regiment issued with SMGs was attacked by men wielding rifles, they just had to suck it up and close to SMG range regardless of casualties, or hunker down and wait for support. With barely enough weapons to go around anyway, an SMG was better than nothing, and if the men could get close enough, was brutal in close-combat. The Soviets weren't quite as averse to casualties as modern armies are.

[Rich and Corporations]

The PPSh and the Red Army would naturally disagree with you.

That was a simple measure of "We have so many of these, and were fighting in this area (Stalingrad), we may as well issue these to entire regiment." The practice may have continued following that, but they were never unsupported by riflemen with M91/30s. The Shpaginas are one of, if not THE only case in history where a SMG has been issued enmass to a mobile ground force in a time of all out war.

Six milion PPsh's have been produced, according to wikipedia.

[Aqizithiuda]

That was a simple measure of "We have so many of these, and were fighting in this area (Stalingrad), we may as well issue these to entire regiment." The practice may have continued following that, but they were never unsupported by riflemen with M91/30s. The Shpaginas are one of, if not THE only case in history where a SMG has been issued enmass to a mobile ground force in a time of all out war.

Six milion PPsh's have been produced, according to wikipedia.

And?

[Rich and Corporations]

Six milion PPsh's have been produced, according to wikipedia.

And?

Pretty much meant the whole red army was armed with them.
Compared to their other rifles at least.

[Aqizithiuda]

And?

Pretty much meant the whole red army was armed with them.
Compared to their other rifles at least.

Apparently the Russians conscripted close to 30 million men during the war in addition to the more than four million men already serging. Of these, official figures say close to 8.7 million died.

Is it not possible, then, that not all those 6 million SMGs were used concurrently and that many were made to replace those lost by Russian troops or captured or destroyed by the Germans?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Registugian soldiers get issued with pistols because terrorists, anarchists and (worst of all) dissidents in every god damn city.

(My nation turns into more of a dystopia with every passing day)

Just wait, once you're listing 'Homeless' up there with those lot, we should sit down, share a drink over how awful we are to our citizenry.

My police now carry, functionally, PDRs as standard issue because my populace are now that evil.

[Purpelia]

Just wait, once you're listing 'Homeless' up there with those lot, we should sit down, share a drink over how awful we are to our citizenry.

My police now carry, functionally, PDRs as standard issue because my populace are now that evil.

My police officers are not issued firearms because that's how safe Purpelia is.

Also, because no one, and I mean no one noticed it the first time.

To continue on with my aircraft engine questions. The trail of links has led me from one place to another and finally to this:
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/gsdl/co ... ir/doc.pdf

Now the way I got there, as well as the repeated references to the Tornado and the RB199 in the document make me thing that this might be the engine Crockfur was talking about when he mentioned a lengthened RB199. Than again I might be absolutely and completely wrong. In that case this is just a very interesting curiosity.

Long story short apparently this is some sort of concept demonstrator that the British started work on in 82 and that apparently even at onset was meant to have a variable inlet geometry to provide variable bypass ratios at will. To quote:

With the wide bypass ratio variation between extreme operating points, variable geometry should offer aerodynamics advantages, although conflicting with cost, weight and reliability objectives. Demonstrations of both variable inlet guide vanes and variable outlet guide vanes are included in XG40 to compare with the datum design which has no inlet guide vanes.

O_O. Comments?

[Jagalonia]

The first is not always applicable and the others won't help much when the other guy just stands there and shoots you while you do it.

You can run 6 meters in the time it takes to pull out a pistol. 6 meters is also the distance where your pistol hit probability drops to "useless".

I'm sorry, this is just bullshit. As a professional soldier, we're trained to hit targets about 1 meter in diameter at 20 meters, and most of us can do better than that. Don't make a pistol out to be completely useless. If it was useless, we wouldn't have any.

[Elan Valleys]

You can run 6 meters in the time it takes to pull out a pistol. 6 meters is also the distance where your pistol hit probability drops to "useless".

I'm sorry, this is just bullshit. As a professional soldier, we're trained to hit targets about 1 meter in diameter at 20 meters, and most of us can do better than that. Don't make a pistol out to be completely useless. If it was useless, we wouldn't have any.

The only people who need a pistol are drivers, SF, people walking around a base (particularly where green-on-blue is a thing) and people with their hands full like mechanics or bomb disposal.

For everyone else its a luxury that the military may not have the money or time to provide training for.

[Tule]

You can run 6 meters in the time it takes to pull out a pistol. 6 meters is also the distance where your pistol hit probability drops to "useless".

I'm sorry, this is just bullshit. As a professional soldier, we're trained to hit targets about 1 meter in diameter at 20 meters, and most of us can do better than that. Don't make a pistol out to be completely useless. If it was useless, we wouldn't have any.

http://www.virginiacops.org/articles/sh ... combat.htm

Hit Potential In Gun Fights

In 1990 the overall police hit potential was 19%. Where distances could be
determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:

Less than 3 yards ..... 38%
3 yards to 7 yards .. 11.5%
7 yards to 15 yards .. 9.4%

In 1992 the overall police hit potential was 17%. Where distances could be
determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:

Less than 3 yards ..... 28%
3 yards to 7 yards .... 11%
7 yards to 15 yards . 4.2%

Sight Alignment

In 70% of the cases reviewed, sight alignment was not used. Officers
reported that they used instinctive or point shooting.

There is a big difference between range accuracy and RL accuracy.
This is why most infantrymen in the world are not issued pistols.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

That's statistics based upon police shootouts.
I believe it's been said, possibly even by you, that in a police shootout, whenever an officer fires more than two rounds, it's trigger spamming until the magazine's empty, firing over a car or something else.

In a military setting, a handgun is a defence solution, except in room clearing where it is an offensive asset.

[Lolzieristan]

That's statistics based upon police shootouts.
I believe it's been said, possibly even by you, that in a police shootout, whenever an officer fires more than two rounds, it's trigger spamming until the magazine's empty, firing over a car or something else.

In a military setting, a handgun is a defence solution, except in room clearing where it is an offensive asset.

Yes, police are far less trained than soldiers in terms of shooting any kind of weapon. The National Institute of Justice found in 2006 that typical local-level police officers' actual line-of-duty accuracy rate was only around 12%. Mostly because the average soldier is more or less hired to shoot at things, whereas the average rural sheriff's deputy might only draw his service pistol once or twice a month, and actually engage in a shootout with a sober and dangerous person once or twice in his career.


But yes, pistols are extremely specialized items. They aren't issued to your average footsoldier, clearly. But they have purposes. For example, the Soviet Army issued Makarov pistols to every shoulder-mounted rocket operator in their ranks, and every rifle squad of ~5 guys had an RPG-7 grenadier. Because everyone knows that 8 rounds of 9x18mm fired from a gun that fits in the palm of your hand is definitely going to change the situation in a mechanized infantry assault...


Personally, my nation authorizes troops to provide their own handguns if they aren't issued one, but considering how hard it is to get .357 Magnum or 10mm Auto rounds out of a standardized WarPac-structured supply line, they tend to stick with purchasing surplus handguns that accept standard military cartridges, like the millions of Makarovs that are just kinda floating around our marketplace after our COIN Branch switched to the Grach.

[The Republic of Lanos]

My cops carry pistols on them and their patrol cars have a rifle and shotgun ready while wearing visible body armor.

The Lanosian populace is heavily armed for a reason.

[The State of Czecho-Slovakia]

I'm trying to come up with a good tank doctrine for my army, based on blitzkreig & utilizing tank riders. Here are the facts on my Armoured Batallions & tanks:
Armored Battalion:

808 men
48 Tanks & 4 Infantry Companies

Infantry Company: 138 men
1 Captain
1 1st Lieutenant
2 2nd Lieutenants
10 Messengers\Radiomen
100 Riflemen
24 LMG Gunners
Weapons:
Officers, Messengers: Arisaki Type 38 Rifles
Riflemen: ZH 29 Automatic Rifles
LMG: Zb. 26
All: RG 34 Grenades
48 Tanks

Tanks:

Heavy- Char B1 tanks
Medium: Matilda 2, Somua S35
Light- Skoda LT-35

Any opinions on my equipment, organization, and especially tactics would be appreciated!

[Kouralia]

Hmm... My army is 1 million people out of 1.5 or so Billion people. It's a very strong economy, with lots of stuffs and win.

It's first world, and this is acceptable as I am like a babby-tier super-power in my region. So this is for all intents and purposes realistic. How can I lulzify my Army to make it ultra-tech'd up and advanced?

• My military already has more Armoured Regiments than Light Role Infantry Battalions, and is working on replacing all APCs in Mechanised units with IFVs.
• Those Black Hornet UAVs will be deployed at Platoon level, carried by the commander.
• NETWORK ALL THE THINGS. By this I mean we operate a kind-of lulz HUD which basically enables Way-points to be programmed in, it shows things like which channels the user's radio is connected to, it can show who is talking, it can flash alerts from the platoon commander. Not much else. It requires a reasonable length of time to transfer data in the field to update itself - though it enables pings to go out from units. So, a Kouralian infantry platoon could ping out before leaving a tree-line and an armoured column would receive the encoded signal if within range.
• PRRs and all of the shits for all of the men. Though this is as standard.
• Helmet-Cams mandatory for all men (unless OpSec demands otherwise).
• MOAR UAVS! Those back-pack hunter-killer ones might be stashed away at company level in the Signalers' vans.
• Laser designators for pretty much *all* AFVs and all Corporals and above to properly bring in the hurt.

Any other ways of making my army lulzy? It already had a very heavily professional, training and elite mentality.

[Purpelia]

Have all your heavy weapon units (ATGM's, MANPAD, Mortars ect.) ride in customized pimped out wiesels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiesel_AWC

[Kouralia]

Have all your heavy weapon units (ATGM's, MANPAD, Mortars ect.) ride in customized pimped out wiesels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiesel_AWC

Nah, their kit is sorted. My mortar platoon for Armoured Inf Bttns is crazy. In addition to the 81mm mortars being used by the mortar-squads who can double-up as infantry, there's another platoon of AMOS stuffs - all commanded by some 2nd Lieutenant.

[Purpelia]

Have all your heavy weapon units (ATGM's, MANPAD, Mortars ect.) ride in customized pimped out wiesels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiesel_AWC

Nah, their kit is sorted. My mortar platoon for Armoured Inf Bttns is crazy. In addition to the 81mm mortars being used by the mortar-squads who can double-up as infantry, there's another platoon of AMOS stuffs - all commanded by some 2nd Lieutenant.

Just make sure there is no single unit type without a specialized vehicle. Mortar? Get a mortar carrier. ATGM, get an ATGM carrier. You know, no one ever dismounts unless their job description includes fitting a bayonet.

That makes it insanely cool if expensive.


Also, what are 81mm mortars doing at the battalion level? I issue 3x 82mm gun mortars in every company. And my army is sane unlike yours.

[Kouralia]

Nah, their kit is sorted. My mortar platoon for Armoured Inf Bttns is crazy. In addition to the 81mm mortars being used by the mortar-squads who can double-up as infantry, there's another platoon of AMOS stuffs - all commanded by some 2nd Lieutenant.

Just make sure there is no single unit type without a specialized vehicle. Mortar? Get a mortar carrier. ATGM, get an ATGM carrier. You know, no one ever dismounts unless their job description includes fitting a bayonet.

That makes it insanely cool if expensive.


Also, what are 81mm mortars doing at the battalion level? I issue 3x 82mm gun mortars in every company. And my army is sane unlike yours.

They're cascaded down. A bttn has a Support Coy, which is broken into Support Platoons. Support Platoon for each COy =

• 2 81mm Mortars
• 2 LRATGMs
• 2 HMGs
• 2 ManPADS

Also, that's erring into the 'for the sake of money spending' It doesn't seem to offer much of a benefit in performance.

Also, Kouralian military is perfectly sane.
>Not sane according to the man who issues pickelhaubes and whose men treat the spike like their only child!

[Altito Asmoro]

Nah, their kit is sorted. My mortar platoon for Armoured Inf Bttns is crazy. In addition to the 81mm mortars being used by the mortar-squads who can double-up as infantry, there's another platoon of AMOS stuffs - all commanded by some 2nd Lieutenant.

Just make sure there is no single unit type without a specialized vehicle. Mortar? Get a mortar carrier. ATGM, get an ATGM carrier. You know, no one ever dismounts unless their job description includes fitting a bayonet.

That makes it insanely cool if expensive.




Also, what are 81mm mortars doing at the battalion level? I issue 3x 82mm gun mortars in every company. And my army is sane unlike yours.

So, how's the progress of the design of the plane? Has it reach the development stage?

[Purpelia]

Just make sure there is no single unit type without a specialized vehicle. Mortar? Get a mortar carrier. ATGM, get an ATGM carrier. You know, no one ever dismounts unless their job description includes fitting a bayonet.

That makes it insanely cool if expensive.




Also, what are 81mm mortars doing at the battalion level? I issue 3x 82mm gun mortars in every company. And my army is sane unlike yours.

So, how's the progress of the design of the plane? Has it reach the development stage?

Still waiting for someone to answer my bloody engine question. I reposted it 2 times already and am getting sick of waiting. I am doing research on Radar and a few other things thou. So at least that is going good. But without engines the bird just won't fly.

[Altito Asmoro]

So, how's the progress of the design of the plane? Has it reach the development stage?

Still waiting for someone to answer my bloody engine question. I reposted it 2 times already and am getting sick of waiting. I am doing research on Radar and a few other things thou. So at least that is going good. But without engines the bird just won't fly.

What is the question, actually? I might help.