NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #2

[Rich and Corporations]

What sorts of penetration could I expect from 9mm APDS? Assume I'm using the .35 winchester.
I'm using 9mm APDS for my 2050 power armor truppen.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Depends what you neck it down to.
Depends on the mass.
Depends on the pushing power.

[Purpelia]

I would like to try and revive the conversation about my fighter-bomber design that I had going about 5 pages back. To quote:

a lot depends on where the aircraft is operating, the RB-199 is heavily orientated for low level work and as such it has a failry high (1.1 to 1) bypass ratio. If you were to use it you might be hurting for power at medium to high alttitude but get down low and it really would be the bee's knees.

Someone here did a bit of work on comparing the F404 to the RB199:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=104490

Now my reply to this was:

How high is high thou? I wanted to get Mig-29/F-18 like performance out of this thing after all. And while I am willing to settle for less I am not willing to sacrifice the fighter side of the multirole.

So the question still stands. How much would I be sacrificing? Since I do want this to match the Mig-29 and others in their class or at least give them a good run for their money and not just be something that is good for ground attack but get shot down easily at medium to high altitude.

[Rich and Corporations]

What sorts of penetration could I expect from 9mm APDS? Assume I'm using the .35 winchester.
I'm using 9mm APDS for my 2050 power armor truppen.

8 gram penetrator
5 grams sabot

[Crookfur]

I would like to try and revive the conversation about my fighter-bomber design that I had going about 5 pages back. To quote:

a lot depends on where the aircraft is operating, the RB-199 is heavily orientated for low level work and as such it has a failry high (1.1 to 1) bypass ratio. If you were to use it you might be hurting for power at medium to high alttitude but get down low and it really would be the bee's knees.

Someone here did a bit of work on comparing the F404 to the RB199:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=104490

Now my reply to this was:

How high is high thou? I wanted to get Mig-29/F-18 like performance out of this thing after all. And while I am willing to settle for less I am not willing to sacrifice the fighter side of the multirole.

So the question still stands. How much would I be sacrificing?

no idea really, it'll be a gradual change the higher you get, i would expect to see things starting to seriously favour the lower bypass ratio turbofans at about 15,000-20,000ft.

if in doubt stick with the F404

[Purpelia]

Out of curiosity at what altitudes does areal combat usually take place? In particular I mean the fighter vs fighter stuff. Although looking at the service ceilings of various aircraft I tend to think that the number is probably 2-3x that.

Also, I don't know if you all can tell but this is kind of a new and interesting topic for me to learn about. So I am full of questions. It's fun.
So if any of my questions ever seem disrespectful or stupid and you can't make up your mind. It's stupid every time.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

From what I understand, high altitude.
I'd take a stab at 15,000ft plus?

[Purpelia]

I am going to have to learn up a bit on engines. That and radar. But one thing at a time.

[Alowwvia]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

You possibly could, but I don't get your fixation with civil aircraft.

[Alowwvia]

You possibly could, but I don't get your fixation with civil aircraft.

Size, mostly. More space to shove stuff. Readily available airframes.

[Gawdzendia]

You possibly could, but I don't get your fixation with civil aircraft.

Size, mostly. More space to shove stuff. Readily available airframes.

While good points, I still don't think using civvy airframes for anything other than cargo/giant chemical lasers would be... different to say the least.

[Purpelia]

You possibly could, but I don't get your fixation with civil aircraft.

Size, mostly. More space to shove stuff. Readily available airframes.

You will get much more space or alternatively much less wasted space if you design an aircraft from the ground up for your use. Since than you can tailor the aircraft to the equipment and not the other way around.

[Yes Im Biop]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

No because I don't want to see another 5 pages of you arguing a 747 could replace the A-10

[A Hooloovoo]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

They'd need a lot of modification but it could be done.

[Alowwvia]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

No because I don't want to see another 5 pages of you arguing a 747 could replace the A-10

>hurr what is electronic warfare

>is dsat ground attak

[Yes Im Biop]

No because I don't want to see another 5 pages of you arguing a 747 could replace the A-10

>hurr what is electronic warfare

>is dsat ground attak

I knwo what E Warfare is. I also knwo there are plane's designed to do just that and the 747 isn't one of em.

[Rich and Corporations]

I am going to have to learn up a bit on engines. That and radar. But one thing at a time.

I've been reading a fair bit on radar.

---

Weight: 41 tonnes
Length: 6.3 meters hull
Width: 3.1 meters
Height: 2.7 meters

Turret Armament: 76mm, 8mm Coaxial
Turret Armament Elevation: 26 degrees to -8
Secondary Armament: 57mm fixed mortar, 13mm roof mounted HMG

Ground Pressure: .9 kg/cm²
Ground Clearance: 45 cm

Suspension: HVSS
Engine: 1000 hp MTU 881
Fuel Capacity: 750 liters
Range: 200 km roads

My current tank design.

Do you like what you see?

Armor is 120mm frontal, with additional applique ceramic and NERA blocks.

[The UK in Exile]

No because I don't want to see another 5 pages of you arguing a 747 could replace the A-10

>hurr what is electronic warfare

>is dsat ground attak

someone who is asking what the differences between a civilian and military aircraft are, is hardly in the place to throw stones.

[Purpelia]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

They'd need a lot of modification but it could be done.

On the other hand it takes no modification at all for them to replace cruise missiles.

I am going to have to learn up a bit on engines. That and radar. But one thing at a time.

I've been reading a fair bit on radar.

Can you enlighten me a bit? As in, where do I even start?

[Discordant Schism]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

No because I don't want to see another 5 pages of you arguing a 747 could replace the A-10

The E-3 Sentry is based off the 707.

[Alowwvia]

Size, mostly. More space to shove stuff. Readily available airframes.

You will get much more space or alternatively much less wasted space if you design an aircraft from the ground up for your use. Since than you can tailor the aircraft to the equipment and not the other way around.

ll fish around the NS draftroom later to see if there's any god designs for the purpose I need thm for.;

[Purpelia]

I've been reading a fair bit on radar.

Mind if I ask you a few questions? Well just one at this point.

Edit: Fixed quote fail.

[Rich and Corporations]

I've been reading a fair bit on radar.

Can you enlighten me a bit? As in, where do I even start?

Erm. A google search.

Some of the stuff I have...
http://cerno.wordpress.com/2007/07/07/b ... own-radar/ <- this provides an overview for concepts
http://www.exreps.com/Trojan/Developmen ... c%2006.pdf
http://www.mobileradar.org/Documents/43 ... System.pdf
http://rtreport.ksc.nasa.gov/techreport ... h/305.html < - passive radar locator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIRAFFE_Radar
http://www.ndu.edu/press/lib/images/jfq-55/22.pdf
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/06/03/is-stealth-dead/ < - ofc it isn't, but your AA missiles won't be as effective using radar homing anymore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bistatic_radar <- sweden was planning on using this to defeat stealth attack aircraft
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA474069

---

Alowwvia : USE A SUPER GUPPY!
FOR THE WIN.

[Crookfur]

Anyone think I could convert a civilian airliner into a powerful electronic warfare plarform?

You could although a lot would depend on exactly waht kind of Electronic warfare you want do with it.

stand off jamming? probably better using older bomber airframes with large external pods and antennas or a medium to large bizjet. Although saying that you could get msot of what you need into a tactical (fighter) aircraft.

SIGINT/ELINT bird? The EC-135/Ninrod R1 shows this as perfectly practical although again you might get more milage out of a current large bizjet or a smallish jetliner (i.e. C-series, maybe 737 at the largest) thanks to the smaller size of mdoern electronics.