NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #2

[Kouralia]

This

(Image)
(Image)

Or this

(Image)
(Image)

This thread isn't really for that, try the Main Military Weapon thread.

However, as a regular on that thread, I'd say that the bottom is better looking, however fix the curved bit at the end of the rails It looks plain weird...

[Arkania 5]

Is there any kind of acid that can eat through boron carbide?

EDIT:

16 Emergency Experimental Crisis Suits (Armed with 2 Miniguns on the arms, A jetpack on the back, Specialized Targeting systems, And able to resist 70% of Attacks under the explosive force of C4 and under the power of a 50 Cal shot.)

What's wrong with this picture?

[The UK in Exile]

Is there any kind of acid that can eat through boron carbide?

EDIT:

16 Emergency Experimental Crisis Suits (Armed with 2 Miniguns on the arms, A jetpack on the back, Specialized Targeting systems, And able to resist 70% of Attacks under the explosive force of C4 and under the power of a 50 Cal shot.)

What's wrong with this picture?

hows he humping all of the link around?

[Spirit of Hope]

Is there any kind of acid that can eat through boron carbide?

EDIT:

16 Emergency Experimental Crisis Suits (Armed with 2 Miniguns on the arms, A jetpack on the back, Specialized Targeting systems, And able to resist 70% of Attacks under the explosive force of C4 and under the power of a 50 Cal shot.)

What's wrong with this picture?

The fact that two mini guns would weigh to much for a single suit to carry not including the ludicrous amount of ammo they would need and the power system required for both...Oh and hay a jetpack like those are possible!

[Lubyak]

Is there any kind of acid that can eat through boron carbide?

EDIT:

What's wrong with this picture?

The fact that two mini guns would weigh to much for a single suit to carry not including the ludicrous amount of ammo they would need and the power system required for both...Oh and hay a jetpack like those are possible!

Somehow I think he wanted a MT version of this.

[Spirit of Hope]

The fact that two mini guns would weigh to much for a single suit to carry not including the ludicrous amount of ammo they would need and the power system required for both...Oh and hay a jetpack like those are possible!

Somehow I think he wanted a MT version of this.

Which wouldn't work for various reasons, plus a walker? Those have almost no place on any battle field, and twin gatling guns is a stupid armament.

[El Gran Tropico]

How useful would a single small V/STOL carrier like the Principe de Asturias or its derrivative the HTMS Chakri Naruebet be in fleet-to-fleet combat? Would a V/STOL carrier be useful for a small navy otherwise consisting of multirole corvettes and destroyers, in terns of repelling hostile fleets? Or would a single ship like that necessarily be relegated to disaster relief efforts and service as a 'governmental yacht' like the Chakri Naruebet has been IRL?

[The UK in Exile]

How useful would a single small V/STOL carrier like the Principe de Asturias or its derrivative the HTMS Chakri Naruebet be in fleet-to-fleet combat? Would a V/STOL carrier be useful for a small navy otherwise consisting of multirole corvettes and destroyers, in terns of repelling hostile fleets? Or would a single ship like that necessarily be relegated to disaster relief efforts and service as a 'governmental yacht' like the Chakri Naruebet has been IRL?

it would be a major asset against surface vessels. once it starts facing an air threat it rapidly starts to be out-classed. since it can carry helicopters its also probably quite handy at sub hunting.

[Ularn]

Somehow I think he wanted a MT version of this.

Which wouldn't work for various reasons, plus a walker? Those have almost no place on any battle field, and twin gatling guns is a stupid armament.

I could see the application of small walkers in a fast-attack role with jetpacks or something akin to the Tau Battlesuit or Heinlien's Mobile Infantry. If possible, such units would be good for hit and run style attacks, but using walkers as something like a tank is retarded.

[Spirit of Hope]

Which wouldn't work for various reasons, plus a walker? Those have almost no place on any battle field, and twin gatling guns is a stupid armament.

I could see the application of small walkers in a fast-attack role with jetpacks or something akin to the Tau Battlesuit or Heinlien's Mobile Infantry. If possible, such units would be good for hit and run style attacks, but using walkers as something like a tank is retarded.

Which starts getting into a grey area, certainly in even the near future I think we are going to start seeing infantry equipped with something like exoskeletons and stuff that will start to look like powered armor. (I did some looking into it and it would be possible to make a power armor like system in MT, it would just have huge reliability, duration, and power problems) I also think systems that are slightly larger than that that are bipedal would make some sense, like Heinliens MI or slightly smaller Tau Battlesuits. However I sought they will be equipped with anything like jet packs (lots of problems there) and certainly not mini guns, heavy rifles (or the FT/PMT equivalent), missiles, and large grenade launcher/mortar type weapons. Using walkers as a tank is really stupid unless you can come up with a really good justification (like its invincible somehow and carries a Doom Gun that fires on line of sight) and even then you could come up with better platforms to use.

[The Kievan People]

I could see the application of small walkers in a fast-attack role with jetpacks or something akin to the Tau Battlesuit or Heinlien's Mobile Infantry. If possible, such units would be good for hit and run style attacks, but using walkers as something like a tank is retarded.

Humvees and Motorcycles can no longer shoot-move-shoot because...?

Bipedal walking machines larger than a personnel exoskeleton are a solution in search of a problem.

[The Akasha Colony]

I could see the application of small walkers in a fast-attack role with jetpacks or something akin to the Tau Battlesuit or Heinlien's Mobile Infantry. If possible, such units would be good for hit and run style attacks, but using walkers as something like a tank is retarded.

Humvees and Motorcycles can no longer shoot-move-shoot because...?

Bipedal walking machines larger than a personnel exoskeleton are a solution in search of a problem.

Agreed. Exoskeletons are useful because they protect individual men in a package that would prevent the installation of a cockpit or controls. But scale it up larger and you have to justify adding limbs (and thus mechanical complexity and vulnerability) when more reliable modes of transportation already exist. If a mech's limb isn't there to protect the actual limb of the user beneath it, it's excess mechanical complexity for little gain vs. a standard gun turret.

Especially if you're adding jetpacks. If you're jetpacking over rough terrain, you don't need legs at all, which is usually the advantage mech proponents tout vs. normal treads/wheels. Adding a jetpack means the mech is now the perfect storm of bad design, since the limbs are rendered redundant by the jetpack, and all of those systems add additional weight, complexity, and vulnerability. There are a tiny handful of potential places a mech may be more useful than a wheeled vehicle, but those unlikely situations aren't enough to justify their development and use, especially if those walkers get pushed into general operations, where their special-purpose gear is actually a liability, rather than an asset.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

I could see the application of small walkers in a fast-attack role with jetpacks or something akin to the Tau Battlesuit or Heinlien's Mobile Infantry. If possible, such units would be good for hit and run style attacks, but using walkers as something like a tank is retarded.

Humvees and Motorcycles can no longer shoot-move-shoot because...?

Bipedal walking machines larger than a personnel exoskeleton are a solution in search of a problem.

To be fair, both the Tau battlesuit and MI armor are worn, although the Tau thing is in that Landmate-esque grey area.

[Vault 1]

Power armor starts turning useless the moment it starts significantly increasing a soldier's footprint.

Power armor can not protect from: vehicle fire, close artillery impacts, and even direct infantry fire - tech that allows for PA, allows for R2-like firearms even in second tier nations.
Which means you can't stand proud with your minigun at the hip, or AMR snipers and even riflemen from first tier nations will have a field day.

Which means you still have to lay down in ditches, duck into foxholes, pop out of trenches, hide behind walls.
Any PA that is too cumbersome for it (in MT that's any) makes you more, not less vulnerable than a regular soldier.
Any PA that's advanced enough to allow for it, but large, produces diminishing returns as you need to dig a lot more, find larger obstacles to cover behind, get around in larger vehicles, stay further away to avoid sniper fire.
And as for assault use, you still need extra cover in assault, and larger PA's assault value is questionable versus an armored vehicle.

[Arkania 5]

Somehow I think he wanted a MT version of this.

Which wouldn't work for various reasons, plus a walker? Those have almost no place on any battle field, and twin gatling guns is a stupid armament.

Not a walker. Battlesuit. Back in the days of my MT Tau nation, these would just be HULC with extra armor on and maybe a gpmg.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Considering the meagre amounts of lift provided by jetpacks, the short range they have, the amount of weight carried by a soldier and the complete lack of cover when sailing through the air, I really don't think jetpack infantry will ever have a place.

[Spirit of Hope]

Considering the meagre amounts of lift provided by jetpacks, the short range they have, the amount of weight carried by a soldier and the complete lack of cover when sailing through the air, I really don't think jetpack infantry will ever have a place.

I could see jet packs passed out as specialty equipment to specialty troops for specific operations. Put never widespread deployment and even that would require vast improvements in "jetpack" technology before I would think its viable for deployment.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Considering the meagre amounts of lift provided by jetpacks, the short range they have, the amount of weight carried by a soldier and the complete lack of cover when sailing through the air, I really don't think jetpack infantry will ever have a place.

I could see jet packs passed out as specialty equipment to specialty troops for specific operations. Put never widespread deployment and even that would require vast improvements in "jetpack" technology before I would think its viable for deployment.

I can't. Jetpacks aren't small or light and you need to carry around fuel so they aren't a piece of equipment able to be taken on patrol. Jetpacks aren't rugged, dependable gear either so they aren't the kind of equipment you'd take anywhere in the field. They aren't quiet so they are no good for sneak attacks. They aren't invisible to infra-red, nor visual light. They aren't cheap. They aren't easy to maintain and frankly, they don't offer nearly enough benefit for their long, long list of drawbacks. Short of an anti-gravity system, personal lift isn't going to be something seen on the battlefield.

[The Kievan People]

The Crisis is no exoskeleton. It's clearly much bigger than the occupant and needs to be piloted somehow.

[Yes Im Biop]

I have a Question, Is there any difference from a Side loading magazine to a normal Bottom loading? Advantage or disadvantage i mean?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

You've greatly reduced the vertical profile of your weapon, aiding using it from the prone, but it's a great imbalance. As the magazine empties, especially if you use a heavy BR cartridge rather than an intermediate, you will also experience changing balance of the weapon over the side.

[Jagalonia]

Humvees and Motorcycles can no longer shoot-move-shoot because...?

Bipedal walking machines larger than a personnel exoskeleton are a solution in search of a problem.

Agreed. Exoskeletons are useful because they protect individual men in a package that would prevent the installation of a cockpit or controls. But scale it up larger and you have to justify adding limbs (and thus mechanical complexity and vulnerability) when more reliable modes of transportation already exist. If a mech's limb isn't there to protect the actual limb of the user beneath it, it's excess mechanical complexity for little gain vs. a standard gun turret.

Especially if you're adding jetpacks. If you're jetpacking over rough terrain, you don't need legs at all, which is usually the advantage mech proponents tout vs. normal treads/wheels. Adding a jetpack means the mech is now the perfect storm of bad design, since the limbs are rendered redundant by the jetpack, and all of those systems add additional weight, complexity, and vulnerability. There are a tiny handful of potential places a mech may be more useful than a wheeled vehicle, but those unlikely situations aren't enough to justify their development and use, especially if those walkers get pushed into general operations, where their special-purpose gear is actually a liability, rather than an asset.

The only reason I could see justifying a mech, is if you need a moving tower for long-range attacks, or spotting...

[Grand Britannia]

Agreed. Exoskeletons are useful because they protect individual men in a package that would prevent the installation of a cockpit or controls. But scale it up larger and you have to justify adding limbs (and thus mechanical complexity and vulnerability) when more reliable modes of transportation already exist. If a mech's limb isn't there to protect the actual limb of the user beneath it, it's excess mechanical complexity for little gain vs. a standard gun turret.

Especially if you're adding jetpacks. If you're jetpacking over rough terrain, you don't need legs at all, which is usually the advantage mech proponents tout vs. normal treads/wheels. Adding a jetpack means the mech is now the perfect storm of bad design, since the limbs are rendered redundant by the jetpack, and all of those systems add additional weight, complexity, and vulnerability. There are a tiny handful of potential places a mech may be more useful than a wheeled vehicle, but those unlikely situations aren't enough to justify their development and use, especially if those walkers get pushed into general operations, where their special-purpose gear is actually a liability, rather than an asset.

The only reason I could see justifying a mech, is if you need a moving tower for long-range attacks, or spotting...

Me thinks threaded vehicles can do that better.

[Spirit of Hope]

I could see jet packs passed out as specialty equipment to specialty troops for specific operations. Put never widespread deployment and even that would require vast improvements in "jetpack" technology before I would think its viable for deployment.

I can't. Jetpacks aren't small or light and you need to carry around fuel so they aren't a piece of equipment able to be taken on patrol. Jetpacks aren't rugged, dependable gear either so they aren't the kind of equipment you'd take anywhere in the field. They aren't quiet so they are no good for sneak attacks. They aren't invisible to infra-red, nor visual light. They aren't cheap. They aren't easy to maintain and frankly, they don't offer nearly enough benefit for their long, long list of drawbacks. Short of an anti-gravity system, personal lift isn't going to be something seen on the battlefield.

As I said vast improvements would be required, maybe not anti grav but improvements. Even then they only really have a couple of uses and would see very limited use. However on a similar note everyone know squirrel suits? A company makes those with mini engines so special forces can use them for inserting into hostile countries, how cool is that?

[Vault 1]

Side loading magazines can give you that special gangsta look, without actually shooting sideways.

A simple jetpacks isn't really that hard to build, and it doesn't have to be very heavy. But there just isn't a particular role for them. They don't have the range to replace other transportation, don't have much loiter time, and it's hard to imagine a combat situation where even a perfectly functional and compact Duke Nukem 3D jetpack would really be useful.

Hollywood style storming a compound atop a cliff certainly springs to mind, but jetpacks cause so much noise that you'd be more discreet dropping from an armed helicopter.

With mass cryogenics I can think of ways to make usable jetpacks, but it's still a so-so solution looking for a problem.