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by Awesomeland » Mon May 14, 2012 12:51 am

by Grays Harbor » Mon May 14, 2012 6:44 am
Awesomeland wrote:We use nuclear-powered submarine aircraft carriers (SSVN), which can launch both manned and unmanned naval aircraft using vertical launch tubes, and then recovering them from the ocean, so that the carrier does not need to remain surfaced to recover aircraft. This allows us to strike anywhere without warning and not present an obvious surface target for missiles.

by Inutoland » Mon May 14, 2012 12:06 pm
Grays Harbor wrote:Awesomeland wrote:We use nuclear-powered submarine aircraft carriers (SSVN), which can launch both manned and unmanned naval aircraft using vertical launch tubes, and then recovering them from the ocean, so that the carrier does not need to remain surfaced to recover aircraft. This allows us to strike anywhere without warning and not present an obvious surface target for missiles.
Because seeing aircraft landing in the open ocean then going underwater wouldn't be at all obvious, or that MAD and Sonar don't exist, or that ASW weapons are completely useless ...

by Awesomeland » Mon May 14, 2012 12:36 pm
Radar doesn't exactly do a wonderful job at low altitudes for various reasons, and no one said these things were invincible.Grays Harbor wrote:Because seeing aircraft landing in the open ocean then going underwater wouldn't be at all obvious, or that MAD and Sonar don't exist, or that ASW weapons are completely useless ...
Not as Failtastic as you'd think. The concept has popped up before, and continues to pop up over and over. And in a thread where people are posting monster-sized carriers, you're complaining that a concept that actually has historical and current backing is too out there?Inutoland wrote:Besides all the other reasons submersible carriers are failtastic, you mean?

by Gig em Aggies » Mon May 14, 2012 12:40 pm


by The Republic of Legantus » Mon May 14, 2012 12:48 pm


by Harkonna » Mon May 14, 2012 1:04 pm

Heavy Aircraft Carrier; FHAAF Katerby-Ulntra [Manufacturing] Type-093HAC "Gladius." (KU-T093 HAC)
Armament; 28x KU-T144 S/MRSAMPs, 6x KU-T045 M/LRSAMPs
(Short/Medium Range Surface to Air Missile Platforms [Anti-Ballistic Ship Missile Defense],
Medium/Long Range Surface to Air Missile Platforms [Anti-Ballistic Ship Missile Defense]).
Standard Carrier Air Wing; 25x Type-072AF (KU-T072 AF) Attack Fighters, 20x SF-Series, Model-147 (JSF-M147) Strike Fighters,
15x CF-Series, Model-98 (JCF-M98) Assault Fighter, 15x Type-127AH (LBT-127 AH) Attack VTOLs,
5x Type-0019 L SA (ST-0019L SA) Recon Aircraft.
by Ainin » Mon May 14, 2012 1:07 pm

by Orussia » Mon May 14, 2012 3:54 pm
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

by Albion Rhodesia » Tue May 15, 2012 3:13 pm
Awesomeland wrote:Radar doesn't exactly do a wonderful job at low altitudes for various reasons, and no one said these things were invincible.Grays Harbor wrote:Because seeing aircraft landing in the open ocean then going underwater wouldn't be at all obvious, or that MAD and Sonar don't exist, or that ASW weapons are completely useless ...Not as Failtastic as you'd think. The concept has popped up before, and continues to pop up over and over. And in a thread where people are posting monster-sized carriers, you're complaining that a concept that actually has historical and current backing is too out there?Inutoland wrote:Besides all the other reasons submersible carriers are failtastic, you mean?
The facts: Being on the surface is increasingly a death trap. As the saying goes, there are submarines, and there are targets. If you are not a submarine, then you are a sitting duck for one. This is the unpleasant truth that has come up in every military exercise to date.

by Fransikania » Tue May 15, 2012 3:39 pm



by United Marxist Nations » Tue May 15, 2012 4:56 pm
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

by Legokiller » Tue May 15, 2012 5:05 pm



by New Neoria » Tue May 15, 2012 5:29 pm



by Northwest Slobovia » Tue May 15, 2012 5:36 pm
Albion Rhodesia wrote:Awesomeland wrote:Radar doesn't exactly do a wonderful job at low altitudes for various reasons, and no one said these things were invincible.
Not as Failtastic as you'd think. The concept has popped up before, and continues to pop up over and over. And in a thread where people are posting monster-sized carriers, you're complaining that a concept that actually has historical and current backing is too out there?
The facts: Being on the surface is increasingly a death trap. As the saying goes, there are submarines, and there are targets. If you are not a submarine, then you are a sitting duck for one. This is the unpleasant truth that has come up in every military exercise to date.
No military has ever actually suggested the use of a submersible carrier.

by La Espanol Medita » Tue May 15, 2012 5:43 pm

by Orussia » Tue May 15, 2012 5:44 pm
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:His penetrator is MASSIVE!
Talon independent nation wrote:And so missiles did come unto man, and man did see it was good, and did smite down the land battleships of his foe with totally awesome explosions.

by Inutoland » Tue May 15, 2012 5:51 pm

by Northwest Slobovia » Tue May 15, 2012 6:14 pm

by Saurisisia » Tue May 15, 2012 6:17 pm

by The Seven Realms » Tue May 15, 2012 6:47 pm
DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5|Homefront
(╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
PSICOM Alertness:[1] 2 3|Tier 1 Emergency

by Awesomeland » Tue May 15, 2012 8:12 pm
Not true at all, in fact. All major militaries have experimented with the use of submarine carriers. The Americans, the British, the Japanese, the French, the Italians, the Germans, all have either built, or attempted to build, aircraft-carrying submarines.Albion Rhodesia wrote:No military has ever actually suggested the use of a submersible carrier.
Funny, this is exactly the problem that happens in reverse when a standard aircraft carrier is put up against a third-rate naval power. So far, the US military has basically "lost" carriers in wargames and exercises to fearsome naval adversaries like Canada, China, and "Iranistan".Albion Rhodesia wrote:It's a terrible idea, due to the simple fact that any third rate naval power with a marginal ASW capability can blow that impractical naval aviation platform out of the water, long before it can even launch a flight in response.
Fielding all these things involves considerably more effort than fielding a single submarine which can doom an entire carrier. Even if you nail that submarine after the fact, your expensive carrier is now an expensive scrapheap at the bottom of the sea.Albion Rhodesia wrote:Also it's been proven that in both practical and on ex. that though subs may prove to be a threat, a good ASW capability with a combination of aircraft, helos and frigates rigged up for ASW duties can quickly send most subs to the bottom, or make them think twice about sending their fish.
Indeed, all these are true, but not insurmountable with modern material science. Which is why it has not been practical before to build giant aircraft-carrying submarines before...and it still might not be. Of course, we never said that we did. You will note that the exact numbers of planes carried per submarine was not, in fact, specified. Hint: It's not a very big number.Inutoland wrote:One of the big problems with the idea is internal hangar space. Submarines have to resist seriously large amounts of pressure, and the needs of resisting pressure (lots of bulkheads and small compartments) are diametrically opposed to those of handling aircraft efficiently (large hangar space, unobstructed access to planes).
Damn, you noticed? I mentioned just that very thing in the part about "unmanned" aircraft.The Seven Realms wrote:What if it was a submarine carrier that launched UCAVs?

by The Seven Realms » Tue May 15, 2012 8:15 pm
DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5|Homefront
(╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
PSICOM Alertness:[1] 2 3|Tier 1 Emergency

by The UK in Exile » Tue May 15, 2012 8:22 pm
Awesomeland wrote:Not true at all, in fact. All major militaries have experimented with the use of submarine carriers. The Americans, the British, the Japanese, the French, the Italians, the Germans, all have either built, or attempted to build, aircraft-carrying submarines.Albion Rhodesia wrote:No military has ever actually suggested the use of a submersible carrier.Funny, this is exactly the problem that happens in reverse when a standard aircraft carrier is put up against a third-rate naval power. So far, the US military has basically "lost" carriers in wargames and exercises to fearsome naval adversaries like Canada, China, and "Iranistan".Albion Rhodesia wrote:It's a terrible idea, due to the simple fact that any third rate naval power with a marginal ASW capability can blow that impractical naval aviation platform out of the water, long before it can even launch a flight in response.Fielding all these things involves considerably more effort than fielding a single submarine which can doom an entire carrier. Even if you nail that submarine after the fact, your expensive carrier is now an expensive scrapheap at the bottom of the sea.Albion Rhodesia wrote:Also it's been proven that in both practical and on ex. that though subs may prove to be a threat, a good ASW capability with a combination of aircraft, helos and frigates rigged up for ASW duties can quickly send most subs to the bottom, or make them think twice about sending their fish.Indeed, all these are true, but not insurmountable with modern material science. Which is why it has not been practical before to build giant aircraft-carrying submarines before...and it still might not be. Of course, we never said that we did. You will note that the exact numbers of planes carried per submarine was not, in fact, specified. Hint: It's not a very big number.Inutoland wrote:One of the big problems with the idea is internal hangar space. Submarines have to resist seriously large amounts of pressure, and the needs of resisting pressure (lots of bulkheads and small compartments) are diametrically opposed to those of handling aircraft efficiently (large hangar space, unobstructed access to planes).Damn, you noticed? I mentioned just that very thing in the part about "unmanned" aircraftThe Seven Realms wrote:What if it was a submarine carrier that launched UCAVs?

by Synaxis » Tue May 15, 2012 8:50 pm



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