MMW MkV thread. It's been fun.

[New Corda]

Hey, I can always sell it small-scale. And have you tried it? Anyway, at the very least I can say I did it

I already drew some of my lineart stuff in Dassault CATIA, took several days for even minor stuff. You have to think of all the interior stuff, how you fit everything in the right position, and so on. Making guns yourself, even if you're a professional gunsmith, can get extremely dangerous. A gunsmith doesn't automatically know how to manufacture every little piece of weapon technology used nowadays.

I already did all that stuff, talked it over with the guy, revised, re-revised. I know what I'm doing

[New Corda]

Ever heard of an FFL? Or a semi-automatic civilian version? Or having it made by an ATF licensed gunsmith with an FFL?

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't sell that much.

And how can you be so sure that the Gunsmith will make it, let alone make multiple copies?

Well, arn't you an asshole.

Because I know him, he already agreed, and he contributed to the design.

[Fischermann]

Well, there is the way in which the M16 often does worse in tests than competing rifles, yet is never replaced...
Plus, they are built down to a price, being government issue. Remember the (former?) Coast Guard here who kept dissing the M92 because of what he believed were its US-mandated parts being of poor quality?

1) Yet the M16 performs with adequate reliability in field conditions. One improvement would be the addition of a spring attached dust cover, that closes automatically. That would help prevent dust and sand from getting inside the rifle and sticking to the heavily lubricated internals.

That's so not worth the cost of recalling all M16/M4s to armories to be fitted with the bulk orders of new dust covers that it isn't even funny.

2) The early Beretta 92Fs had issues with the slide flying off and hitting the user in the face. That was fixed when the -FS was introduced.

That's about the only serious issue I can think of, ignoring the 9mm NATO's own problems.

Wouldn't the M16 work with a dust cover placed on the top of the ejection port so it automatically closes after a round is fired?

[New Corda]

I wish the same could be done about Anemos' weaponry.

I could do mine on the cheap. Just fudge about with the internals so they are actually other weapons (rather than the mishmashing of parts they are currently), then just manufacture the polymer gun bodies. I feel that the Doberman would be the easiest of all. Just need a FAL Para upper/lower receiver and internals, then arrange it in bullpup format.

Mine uses a lot of existing parts as well, it's only a few things that need to be custom made

[Veceria]

I already drew some of my lineart stuff in Dassault CATIA, took several days for even minor stuff. You have to think of all the interior stuff, how you fit everything in the right position, and so on. Making guns yourself, even if you're a professional gunsmith, can get extremely dangerous. A gunsmith doesn't automatically know how to manufacture every little piece of weapon technology used nowadays.

I already did all that stuff, talked it over with the guy, revised, re-revised. I know what I'm doing

We'll see. Good luck anyways from a designer-in-training.

[Fischermann]

I wish the same could be done about Anemos' weaponry.

I could do mine on the cheap. Just fudge about with the internals so they are actually other weapons (rather than the mishmashing of parts they are currently), then just manufacture the polymer gun bodies. I feel that the Doberman would be the easiest of all. Just need a FAL Para upper/lower receiver and internals, then arrange it in bullpup format.

You could do a primitive version of yours with a spare pistol grip, some tools (stuff like screws) a wire and a homemade buttplate.

Which would be the best gun ever IMO (I have a thing for primitive bullpup concepts).

Example.

[Spreewerke]

I'm going to address several things New Corda (hope I got that right) brought up regarding several platforms. I will start off with the ACR.

The ACR sucks because the quality control is horrible while the rifle itself offers very little more than any other assault rifle/carbine.

Next, I shall move onto the M16/AR-15. The first thing you mentioned (or someone else mentioned) was that they crap where they eat, need to be cleaned constantly, and fellate hardcore. The first AR-15 I fired was not clean when I first shot it. The last time it had been cleaned before then was probably about 400 - 500 rounds previous. I am also a member on a separate forum (won't mention it) where there is a massive section devoted entirely to firearms. Their local expert (on about anything: he runs a lot of platforms and intentionally abuses them to get the results he needs) and several others have ran their AR-15s "dirty" for 3,000+ rounds. A piston system will not solve anything in the AR-15. Currently, no piston manufacturer for the rifle has a uniform dimension of the piston. I don't know what companies produce pistons, but I will use Bushmaster and Colt names here for the sake of an example: basically, if you got a Bushmaster piston system for your AR-15, it would not share any parts with a Colt piston system. If you needed spare parts, you'd either have to buy from Bushmaster only (which sucks if their product sucked) or buy an entirely new upper. Pistons only complicate the AR-15 further by making it more difficult to maintain.

Also, the AR-15 system is not at all superior to the military models. The Colt 6920 I fired was made on the same machines as Colt's M4 carbines (heck, the lower receiver on the 6920 was even stamped "M4 Carbine"). It is, without a doubt, the most high-quality assault rifle/sporting rifle I have ever handled fit and finish-wise. I managed to get chest-sized groupings at ~30 yards while moving, and this was the first time I had ever attempting firing while mobile. Had I been more familiar with the system, I am sure my groupings would have been far better (especially with more mobile-firing training itself). The only reason I'm an AK-lover is due to personal preference. I own an "assault" rifle in .223/5.56x45mm. It is a Daewoo K2 clone (DR200) and it features things from the AR-15, AK(M), and FAL. It was designed as a piston-AR from the ground up, just like the H&K416: as a reminder, the 416 is not an AR-15. It looks very similar to one and has the same controls, but it was designed from the start as a piston system and not an AR-15 with a piston thrown in. I hear it is actually far more similar to the G36 series.

On to my favourite; the AK and its variants. I just got finished firing an underfolding model I'm currently borrowing. I also fired a plain-Jane AKM clone (GP WASR-10/63) and a new Russian-made AK-103 clone (SGL 21-94). I did this as a "see how it goes" shoot and not a "see how I can group" shoot. Here is a photo of the three firearms I fired today.



None of these firearms are US-made. You claimed that US-made AKs are the best. This is, literally, the exact opposite of the truth. US-based manufacturers of AKs have done two things: failed horribly, or cost as much as two "just as good" foreign-made AKs. Lancaster Firearms, Red Jacket Firearms, Krebs, and Rifle Dynamics comes to mind. Few of these companies, if any, use chrome-lined barrels. "Big deal, Yugoslavia didn't either!" Yugoslavia also ceased to exist. Not only that, but the non-chrome-lined barrels have a drastically shorter life than their chrome-lined counterparts and are more difficult to adequately clean (yes, clean). I shall stray from this particular topic of the AKs now and move on to general accuracy.

An AK is entirely, 100%, without a doubt, bet-my-firstborn-son "combat accurate." Your target doesn't care how small of a grouping you had when you put three rounds in his chest. As long as you hit him, he's not going to like it. That being said, pretty much any AK variant is capable of hitting a target at 300m using iron sights. This is good because of two things: 1) Most firefights occur at ranges not exceeding 300m, but usually quite closer, and 2) Identifying a man-sized target as "friend" or "foe" at 300+ metres is very difficult, if not impossible.

That being said, of the two AKs I have sat down and shot for "tightest groupings possible," they have average 2.5MOA between them. That is, grouping sizes of 2.5 inches at 100 yards. If I'm using my conversions in my head right, that's roughly 6cm at 96m -- I'm not going to bother getting precise and using a converter at the moment. Either way, this is definitely accurate enough to make reliable kill-shots at any practical range using iron sights. If you really wish to use the "ARs get 1MOA argument," I ask you to look at the VEPR rifle. It is an RPK variant that gets roughly 1.0MOA out of the box. That's correct: an AK system is capable of 1.0MOA out-of-the-box.

I will now move on to another thing that makes me prefer the AK over ARs. Folding stocks. "That crap's flimsy, isn't comfortable, doesn't offer a cheek weld, and makes the gun suck even more!" This is only true (and even at that, just barely) on tantal-style folders, underfolders, and, to a certain degree, triangle side-folders. Tantals and underfolders weren't made to be comfortable. They were made to be a cheap solution to using an AK inside a vehicle. Since the AK uses a piston design, it is capable of having a folding stock. This helps immensely for getting in and out of vehicles. In my experiences, yes: the underfolding design isn't the best folding stock style I've encountered. It helps with mobility, but that's about it. I found it more difficult to control muzzle rise on the underfolder than with a conventional stock. However, I have found that not all side-folding stocks suck. My SGL 21-94 features a Russian-made AK-74M-style stock. It is the same general size and shape of a fixed stock, but it has the added benefit of being able to fold to the left side. It locks up in both open and closed positions rock-solid. I have experience zero movement with the stock in either location. Since it is a synthetic material, it also does not get super cold during the winter or super hot during the summer, contrary to metal. Since it retains the conventional stock shape, my cheek weld is just like it is on a regular wooden stock. Since it folds, however, I get the major bonus of vehicle and close-quarters mobility. This AK is a 100% Russian-made SAIGA that was converted back into AK configuration (per 922r) by Arsenal, Inc. in Las Vegas, Nevada. It gets ~2.0MOA to ~2.5MOA.

I would also like to note that, even though the underfolder was a bit less comfortable to shoot, it was not impossible to shoot. All three AKs I shot today were capable of hitting a head-sized target at aprox. 80m off-hand using only a sling as support. This was with the rear sights on all three set to the "battlefield" setting, making it combat-accurate from 0m to roughly 350m if I remember correctly. All rounds between those two ranges will easily land center-mass.

As a final note, I would like to say that the AK must be kept just as clean as any other rifle. The difference is the style of maintenance. An AR-15 (and similar rifles) need to be wet to function; lubrication is key. They can be dirty, but if they aren't lubricated properly, they will not function correctly. An AK is the exact opposite. If you over-lube an AK (which nearly means any lubricant at all), it will become less reliable. The AK is more likely to get dirt in the receiver, but this is no problem if the internals are kept relatively dry. If you over-do the lube inside the receiver, that dirt and dust will gum up and jam your rifle. I learned this by accidentally over-lubing my AK and then noticing that the bolt wouldn't fully seat the cartridge after I threw the rifle up and down a creek bank a few dozen times, crawled 30m through a plowed field with it, and then drug it about 10-15m more by its front sight post across even more plowed soil. The lubricants gummed it up and prevented the rifle from fully seating the round. Know how I fixed this, though? Remove magazine, charge handle a handful of times, reinsert magazine, chamber the round. It is that easy to clear a jam on an AK.

I like the AK for various reasons. One of those reasons is the 7.62x39mm round it fires. I like being able to make .30-caliber-sized holes. You also mentioned you were aware of the 5.45x39mm-chambered AKs. I remember you said that they were even worse than 7.62x39mm. When range is taken out of the equation, the 5.45x39mm is equally effective as (if not more due to its design being far more prone to tumbling) the 5.56x45mm round. The 5.45x39mm round is also accurate; my brother fired a thirty-shot group at ~90m using a log as a rest. The rifle had a red-dot sight equipped, and the red dot itself was 4.0MOA in size (the size of the dot you see in the scope would be equal to a 4-inch circle at 100 yards). Obviously not the most accurate optic, but a very handy one (currently resides on the 'Woo). His fairly quickly-fired 30 rounds all landed in a grouping the size of two fists put together. This was his first time firing the rifle.

The AK is an amazing weapon. Due to its design, it is almost jam-proof. If you do encounter a jam, however (I have), it is very simple to correct. Simply removing the magazine and charging the handle once or twice will clear about 99% of jams encountered with the AK. The platform is also battlefield accurate out to 300m with iron sights, assuming you actually train with your AK instead of just shoot stuff for the sake of popping off rounds at pop cans. Thanks to its handy piston return system, the rifle can also feature various styles of side-folding (and, commercially, adjustable AR-clone) stocks. This makes the weapon just as compact, if not more, as the M4 carbine. The best part is that these stocks can be then unfolded to provide a more stable shooting platform while having a barrel length longer than said M4 carbine. The platform is also very easy and cheap to produce with good quality. Ammunition is inexpensive, magazines are inexpensive, and the rifles themselves are inexpensive. For the price of a self-built AR-15 and 1,000 rounds of 5.56x45mm ammunition, you could have purchased a GP WASR-10/63, fixed any potential problems it may have (if you hand inspect it first, don't worry about this), get a $12 muzzle nut to improve its accuracy... Well, that there is about $650 at the absolute most. Since a self-built AR typically runs ~$850 and 1k rounds of 5.56 typically runs $300... That's $1,150 for an AR and ammo. $1,150 minus $650 is how much money you'd have available for ammunition alone if you had gone the AK route. Hint: that's $500 set aside for ammunition which equals out to 2,000 rounds of 7.62x39mm ammunition.

[Alimeria II]

I could do mine on the cheap. Just fudge about with the internals so they are actually other weapons (rather than the mishmashing of parts they are currently), then just manufacture the polymer gun bodies. I feel that the Doberman would be the easiest of all. Just need a FAL Para upper/lower receiver and internals, then arrange it in bullpup format.

You could do a primitive version of yours with a spare pistol grip, some tools (stuff like screws) a wire and a homemade buttplate.

Which would be the best gun ever IMO (I have a thing for primitive bullpup concepts).

Example.

[Veceria]

You could do a primitive version of yours with a spare pistol grip, some tools (stuff like screws) a wire and a homemade buttplate.

Which would be the best gun ever IMO (I have a thing for primitive bullpup concepts).

Example.

That's not primitive, that's art.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

-snip

You've just made me want to move the States and drown in a house full of Kalashnikovs even more than I wanted to before.

[Indeos]

-snip

You've just made me want to move the States and drown in a house full of Kalashnikovs even more than I wanted to before.

Idea: MMW/MBT thread people buy a complex in the US to build a massive armaments collection.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

ALL OF THE GUNS
And each member gets a wing with a personal collection :3

[Spreewerke]

I call AK variants.

[Purpelia]

Don't forget a huge field many kilometers across for us to stage live fire mock battles. Dibs on the high ground!

[Samozaryadnyastan]

I call the forest!

[Immoren]

Should I at sometime continue that light AGL "project" I previously was doing?

[Indeos]

ALL OF THE GUNS
And each member gets a wing with a personal collection :3

I dunno, I was thinking 90% of them would be basically "public" property, meaning that it could be used by anyone with permission from the actual owner. Personal wings just seem silly; it'd be a more impressive display if all the surfaces were covered in things that go bang.

[Former Wellboneland]

ALL OF THE GUNS
And each member gets a wing with a personal collection :3

I call revolving weapons.

[Former Wellboneland]

A S.N.I.P.E.R. rifle used by rangers on patrol in the Wilderness and the Saiyan Homelands.

More modern variant.

[Romanium Imperium]

Well, since this seems to revolve around the service-rifle to answer that the primary service rifle of the Roman Legion is the Beretta AR70/90.

Sidearm wise there's either a Beretta M9 or a Gladius, yes, a sword; yes I know its not original, no I don't care what your opinion is about "ew no swords and all their extra added weight".

[Indeos]

(Image)

A S.N.I.P.E.R. rifle used by rangers on patrol in the Wilderness and the Saiyan Homelands.

I'm pretty sure any place with a Saiyan population isn't going to need guns. Nor will they be helpful, since Saiyans flat-out ignored bullets in DBZ.

[Spreewerke]

(Image)

More modern variant.

I thought this was a lever-action at first considering the hand loop and feeding tube. Since it's a break-top revolver carbine, I am not really seeing the usefulness of either of the two features I mentioned.

[Spirit of Hope]

You've just made me want to move the States and drown in a house full of Kalashnikovs even more than I wanted to before.

Idea: MMW/MBT thread people buy a complex in the US to build a massive armaments collection.

Not to late for me to jump in?

All of the black powder weapons for the lolz

[Former Wellboneland]

(Image)

A S.N.I.P.E.R. rifle used by rangers on patrol in the Wilderness and the Saiyan Homelands.

I'm pretty sure any place with a Saiyan population isn't going to need guns. Nor will they be helpful, since Saiyans flat-out ignored bullets in DBZ.

1. Raditz blocked a shotgun slug that goes pretty slow, to my knowledge
2. We mostly use martial arts.
3. Bonobos

[Former Wellboneland]

(Image)

More modern variant.

I thought this was a lever-action at first considering the hand loop and feeding tube. Since it's a break-top revolver carbine, I am not really seeing the usefulness of either of the two features I mentioned.

No.
You can load faster.
EDIT: Whoops, I see why it sucks.