MMW MkV thread. It's been fun.

[New Corda]

Apart from the M-4 Jamming Device and popgun rounds like 5.56 and 9 Para, that's a pretty decent list. I mostly use existing tech, it's only Assault Rifles and Pistols that I feel are not well done today

[Coltarin]

The Modular Assault Scatter Weapon (MASW-8)

now this taser and frag rounds

[-Costa Luna-]

Apart from the M-4 Jamming Device and popgun rounds like 5.56 and 9 Para, that's a pretty decent list. I mostly use existing tech, it's only Assault Rifles and Pistols that I feel are not well done today

The popgun rounds as you call them do just as well as the idiots running around using nitro express rounds.

[Coltarin]

Apart from the M-4 Jamming Device and popgun rounds like 5.56 and 9 Para, that's a pretty decent list. I mostly use existing tech, it's only Assault Rifles and Pistols that I feel are not well done today

my personal advice is to use the ACR (remington or bushmaster) in 6.8 SPC and a USP in .45 ACP

[-Costa Luna-]

No thank you...Fine as I am not using unnecessarily expensive equipment or retrograding back to .45s.

[Ularn]

It sounds like you want to go for caseless ammunition, in which case the propellant will likely form part of the casing so that bullet and propellant can stay a single unit. This will make for much faster reloading than having to load bullet and propellant separately.

On a vaguely related note, does anyone have any thoughts on needle guns?

Ok. Noted thanks. Also. Needle guns...Like Flechete ammo?

No; like an early caseless rifle design. Look at the link. The propellant was contained in a paper cartridge with a percussion cap. The firing pin was a thin needle which would pierce the paper and strike the cap, igniting the propellant which would burn away the paper case while forcing the bullet forwards. As I said, the paper cartridge sounds awfully flimsy and I imagine a lot of bullets would fall apart before you ever loaded them but it's still a nifty idea.

[Coltarin]

No thank you...Fine as I am not using unnecessarily expensive equipment or retrograding back to .45s.

The 9mm and 5.56 are pretty under powered rounds for today, if you want a better pistol round the 10mm is where its at, but seriously ditch the 5.56

[New Corda]

Apart from the M-4 Jamming Device and popgun rounds like 5.56 and 9 Para, that's a pretty decent list. I mostly use existing tech, it's only Assault Rifles and Pistols that I feel are not well done today

The popgun rounds as you call them do just as well as the idiots running around using nitro express rounds.

I'm not talking about idiots hot loading, I'm talking about modern calibers like 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, the list goes on. And both 5.56 and 9mm Para have repeatedly failed to put the bad guy down in the field. And I'm not talking about leathality, because it's no good if the bad guy limps home and dies AFTER shooting you to death with an effective round. These rounds I've mentioned are better in almost every way except cost and a negligible amount of weight. It's a "why not?" question, unless you value money over you're troops lives like the US today.

[-Costa Luna-]

No thank you...Fine as I am not using unnecessarily expensive equipment or retrograding back to .45s.

The 9mm and 5.56 are pretty under powered rounds for today, if you want a better pistol round the 10mm is where its at, but seriously ditch the 5.56

No. This is a very simple word to understand, I don't quite comprehend why so many of you here have problems with that. I'm not changing it.

[New Corda]

No thank you...Fine as I am not using unnecessarily expensive equipment or retrograding back to .45s.

How about upgrading? The 9mm Para is barely newer then the ACP, I mean it's an old German caliber from before the first world war.

[Coltarin]

The 9mm and 5.56 are pretty under powered rounds for today, if you want a better pistol round the 10mm is where its at, but seriously ditch the 5.56

No. This is a very simple word to understand, I don't quite comprehend why so many of you here have problems with that. I'm not changing it.

because the 556 is possibly the worst round to use in most rifle platforms

[Coltarin]

No thank you...Fine as I am not using unnecessarily expensive equipment or retrograding back to .45s.

How about upgrading? The 9mm Para is barely newer then the ACP, I mean it's an old German caliber from before the first world war.

which I only think became NATO standard because every country in europe used it or another very similar round save for the soviets until the makarov

[Lazssia]

No. This is a very simple word to understand, I don't quite comprehend why so many of you here have problems with that. I'm not changing it.

because the 556 is possibly the worst round to use in most rifle platforms

^ This.

It does well against soft tissue targets, but very poorly against armored ones. Talk to any NATO serviceman/woman that has gone on tour and seen combat, and they'll tell you that they'd much rather have something like 6.5 or 6.8 in their mags than 5.56.

[New Corda]

Apart from the M-4 Jamming Device and popgun rounds like 5.56 and 9 Para, that's a pretty decent list. I mostly use existing tech, it's only Assault Rifles and Pistols that I feel are not well done today

my personal advice is to use the ACR (remington or bushmaster) in 6.8 SPC and a USP in .45 ACP

I use 6.8 SPC in my assault rifles, it's likely the best infantry rifle round to date. I've shot USPs, and I really don't like the muzzle climb you get with high caliber plastic pistols. I use my MP-L with a steel slide, ceramic body and 10pm Auto, which outperforms the ACP in both magazine capacity and power. Accuracy is still up for debate, but at least they're equal in that respect

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Actually, the Brits beat Remington to it by a few decades
When NATO was first created, there was competition for the new standard rifle cartridge - America's influence got it to be the 7.62x51mm round, despite British (and even some American) science that stated that other rounds were superior. Front of the pack - the .280 British (7x43mm), which is what small arms rounds (5.56 replacements especially) are slowly moving towards, ballistically and in terms of round capability. It's a two-cartridge issue with stopgap rounds everywhere that could have been solved once and for all in the 1950s.

No. This is a very simple word to understand, I don't quite comprehend why so many of you here have problems with that. I'm not changing it.

because the 556 is possibly the worst round to use in most rifle platforms

556 has its disadvantages and there are far better rounds yes, but M855A1 EPR alleviates most of the perceived issues.
Frankly, the bigger issue with 556 is its platforms.

[New Corda]

because the 556 is possibly the worst round to use in most rifle platforms

^ This.

It does well against soft tissue targets, but very poorly against armored ones. Talk to any US serviceman/woman and they'll tell that they'd much rather have something like 6.5 or 6.8 in the mag than 5.56.

Not even against soft targets, especially with the Geneva Convention laws on expanding bullets. It either just goes right through or tumbles, which is deadly, but not immediately so. It doesn't knock them down, and they just die slowly later. Its very inhumane, really. But that's what you get when you use a varmit round on humans

[New Corda]

because the 556 is possibly the worst round to use in most rifle platforms

556 has its disadvantages and there are far better rounds yes, but M855A1 EPR alleviates most of the perceived issues.
Frankly, the bigger issue with 556 is its platforms.

Why is it that so many 556 platforms are so Jam-prone?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Very few actually. Only (notably) the AR-15 platform because direct impingement allows any particulates from incomplete combustion to travel directly into the components of the gun.
Frequent cleaning alleviates this, however.

[Ularn]

^ This.

It does well against soft tissue targets, but very poorly against armored ones. Talk to any US serviceman/woman and they'll tell that they'd much rather have something like 6.5 or 6.8 in the mag than 5.56.

Not even against soft targets, especially with the Geneva Convention laws on expanding bullets. It either just goes right through or tumbles, which is deadly, but not immediately so. It doesn't knock them down, and they just die slowly later. Its very inhumane, really. But that's what you get when you use a varmit round on humans

Suddenly its use in the weakest gun in Fallout: New Vegas makes sense to me! For ages I was wondering what an assault rifle cartridge was doing in a gun intended to keep mole rats off your lawn

[New Corda]

Very few actually. Only (notably) the AR-15 platform because direct impingement allows any particulates from incomplete combustion to travel directly into the components of the gun.
Frequent cleaning alleviates this, however.

Yeah, I know all about DI. Like shitting where you eat, if you ask me. And frequent cleaning is fine, if your on a nice comfy range in an urban or American rural area. In combat... Not so much. And an AR can be made relible, but only with a lot of aftermarket parts and a well made starting unit. With a piston system. And at that point you might as well just find something else

[Lazssia]

Not even against soft targets, especially with the Geneva Convention laws on expanding bullets. It either just goes right through or tumbles, which is deadly, but not immediately so. It doesn't knock them down, and they just die slowly later. Its very inhumane, really. But that's what you get when you use a varmit round on humans

Suddenly its use in the weakest gun in Fallout: New Vegas makes sense to me! For ages I was wondering what an assault rifle cartridge was doing in a gun intended to keep mole rats off your lawn

Lol.

[New Corda]

Not even against soft targets, especially with the Geneva Convention laws on expanding bullets. It either just goes right through or tumbles, which is deadly, but not immediately so. It doesn't knock them down, and they just die slowly later. Its very inhumane, really. But that's what you get when you use a varmit round on humans

Suddenly its use in the weakest gun in Fallout: New Vegas makes sense to me! For ages I was wondering what an assault rifle cartridge was doing in a gun intended to keep mole rats off your lawn

Yeah, it was originally designed by Remmington as a small game cartridge. We only use it militarily because it's cheap

[Samozaryadnyastan]

SALVO decided that a four-round burst of just about any calibre into a circle of a certain size would yield roughly double the casualties of a fully-automatic burst by a battle rifle firing 7.62x51
Quite how they arrived at this conclusion, I have no idea. So, since calibre of a round supposedly makes no difference, the US army went with the cheap option.

Obviously, while the four-round burst may yield more casualties, these casualties are obviously less serious.

[New Corda]

At that point it's basically advocating no training and "spray 'n' pray" tactics. No wonder we lost Iraq, Vietnam and Korea...

Look at Israel (who's tactics and organization I've loosely modeled mine on), they believe in highly trained small units, and they've won every war they've fought. They only use 556 because they want NATO to like them, and they think the skill of their troops can componsate for it.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Actually, the whole point of SALVO's finding was based on a limited burst of fire, compared to spray 'n' pray.
Funny you should mention Israel's use of 556, the US Army recently had to buy Israeli surplus ammunition because they're using so much of it in Afghanistan, and couldn't manufacture enough of it themselves.

1 billion small arms rounds fired per year with 250,000 per insurgent dropped is pretty astounding statistics, though also understandable.