MMW MkV thread. It's been fun.

[Galla-]

Here is a thought. I know that in WW1 I can't really make bulletproof armor. But I have seen images of soldiers wearing steel plates like these things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Infan ... r_1918.jpg And that gave me an idea.

Infantry wearing these breastplates and medieval style face covering helmets made along the same line would basically be impervious to stuff like pistol and maybe even SMGs and shotguns. More importantly thou, they would be (more importantly appear to be) immune to bayonets. Now obviously this is not for everyone due to the weight and other issues. But assault squads armed with grenades and shotguns and armored with these things could be a devastating force. Not only would they be hard to take down but the image of a masked bulletproof (or at least appearing to be bulletproof) and bayonet-proof attacker charging you with a bayonet might lead enemy infantry to panic and avoid proper bayonet drill in favor of retreating to rifle range.

Supposedly, these things were incredibly effective against handgun and I think even rifle (and therefore a smattering of machine gun) fire. They were just stupidly weighty. I mean, more than what troops lug about today. I think. Probably because modern armoured vests feature significantly less armour, whereas that is one huge piece of the stuff.

No, probably because wearing a helmet + body vest heavy enough to stop rifle rounds was tried and found lacking.

The body armor was comparable to modern armor, at a comparable weight.

[Purpelia]

Armoring the body won't help, he'll just go for the jugular.

I did specificly note that I would also be issuing knight like armored helmets. Althou the helmet would just be knife/pistol proof.

[Indeos]

Your sentence doesn't make sense.

Maybe it doesn't since the defender's artillery and machine guns failed to fire upon the incoming attackers in the first place.

Why would the defender be wondering if the other side's arty and MGs stopped working if they're the ones under attack?

So why the fuck would an SMG make any difference?

Rate of fire and ammunition carried.

Ammo is not a shock thing, and RoF is probably relatively negligible. They'll probably be just as afraid of a large, bullet-and-bayonet-proof man with a shotgun as a large, bullet-and-bayonet-proof man with an SMG.

Tell me more about it.

well I am thinking it would keep the Kurz round and it would be a little slimmer, and smaller and have some rails on it. I can get a PMG of what I am thinking of. on an unrelated note I made this WWI SMG

http://i.imgur.com/Qatn0.png

The Kurz round was not a very good intermediate compared to modern ones. And the StG-44 isn't worth modernizing.

[Nua Corda]

I know, I've tried editing it like 10 times but it's buggy or something. For the record I was promoting 7x40mm

That's .280 British...

Nope, .280 British is 7.1x43mm. THIS is 7mm SPAC:

[The Republic of Lanos]

Armoring the body won't help, he'll just go for the jugular.

I did specificly note that I would also be issuing knight like armored helmets. Althou the helmet would just be knife/pistol proof.

Quick! Aim for the head!

[Den Svenska Riket]

well I am thinking it would keep the Kurz round and it would be a little slimmer, and smaller and have some rails on it. I can get a PMG of what I am thinking of. on an unrelated note I made this WWI SMG

http://i.imgur.com/Qatn0.png

The Kurz round wasn't very good, if my recollection is correct, and your SMG has an AR magazine.

its a drum

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Well no...
Because you've still not included the edited original post :')

I know, I've tried editing it like 10 times but it's buggy or something. For the record I was promoting 7x40mm

It's not a bug, it's to prevent quote pyramiding. Sometimes it only allows two quotes, sometimes it allows three.

I know, I've tried editing it like 10 times but it's buggy or something. For the record I was promoting 7x40mm

That's .280 British...

No, 7x40 is a Cordian cartridge.
.280B is more analogous to 7x43.

[Galla-]

Rate of fire and ammunition carried.

Ammo is not a shock thing, and RoF is probably relatively negligible. They'll probably be just as afraid of a large, bullet-and-bayonet-proof man with a shotgun as a large, bullet-and-bayonet-proof man with an SMG.

This has literally no relevance to my post. Carrying 300 rounds of 9mm is better than carrying 100 rounds of 7.92x57mm. SMGs can also mount bayonets like rifles, and the lack of armor makes you able to carry more ammunition for the SMG, and more grenade bags.



The above is what you should be aiming for any sort of storm troopers/infiltration troops. Massive amounts of lightweight automatic weapons, a few shotguns or carbines distributed around, and grenade bags. No obscenely heavy body armor that makes getting over obstacles and through mud an even more dangerous/deadly task, otherwise you end up like the French.

Armoring the body won't help, he'll just go for the jugular.

I did specificly note that I would also be issuing knight like armored helmets. Althou the helmet would just be knife/pistol proof.

[Sevvania]

The Kurz round wasn't very good, if my recollection is correct, and your SMG has an AR magazine.

its a drum

But it's an AR-sized drum.

[Indeos]

That's .280 British...

Nope, .280 British is 7.1x43mm. THIS is 7mm SPAC:

So, it's got performance that'll be very similar to .280B but you had to propose it instead because you made it. #CordasgonnaCorda

[Den Svenska Riket]

its a drum

But it's an AR-sized drum.

ok I will fix it

[Purpelia]

(Image)

Ain't that a bit too much? Just imagine that German armor I linked to with a normal steel helmet and a knight like face plate that's pike shaped at the front and made of about 1cm thick steel. After all, these are assault troops meant to fight in close quarters so I don't need perfect all side protection. Their sides will be protected by the trench walls.

[Sevvania]

G.O. Brewster developed a steel body armor that weighed 5 kg in the oughties, although that may have been referring to the body armor of the Brewster Body Shield, which could stop a .30-06 round at 15m.

Regardless of how much it weighs in the first place, body armor that stop bullets is worthless except in COIN, and assault troops should be wearing grenade bags and ammunition vests for their SMGs, not armor. If anything, give them vests that stop grenade or artillery shrapnel, not rifle rounds. The main killer of infantrymen past 1910 was/is artillery, so protect against that.

Speaking of shrapnel protection, would something like this...


...be helpful? Sort of a flak jacket for your legs.

Repost?

[Galla-]

(Image)

Ain't that a bit too much? Just imagine that German armor I linked to with a normal steel helmet and a knight like face plate that's pike shaped at the front and made of about 1cm thick steel. After all, these are assault troops meant to fight in close quarters so I don't need perfect all side protection. Their sides will be protected by the trench walls.

If your don't armor the sides, you get parried and a bayonet through your ribs/kidneys.

That is sufficient to stop pistol/rifle rounds and bayonets at close quarters.

Speaking of shrapnel protection, would something like this...


...be helpful? Sort of a flak jacket for your legs.

Repost?

http://fort.ru/eng/catalog/7/34

[Indeos]

Ammo is not a shock thing, and RoF is probably relatively negligible. They'll probably be just as afraid of a large, bullet-and-bayonet-proof man with a shotgun as a large, bullet-and-bayonet-proof man with an SMG.

This has literally no relevance to my post. Carrying 300 rounds of 9mm is better than carrying 100 rounds of 7.92x57mm. SMGs can also mount bayonets like rifles, and the lack of armor makes you able to carry more ammunition for the SMG, and more grenade bags.



The above is what you should be aiming for any sort of storm troopers/infiltration troops. Massive amounts of lightweight automatic weapons, a few shotguns or carbines distributed around, and grenade bags. No obscenely heavy body armor that makes getting over obstacles and through mud an even more dangerous/deadly task, otherwise you end up like the French.

I'm not saying he had a good idea, just that your claim made no sense. It still doesn't; we were talking about the shock value of different weapons for shock troopers, not the logical reasons to use SMGs.

Speaking of shrapnel protection, would something like this...
(Image)

...be helpful? Sort of a flak jacket for your legs.

Repost?

Probably not. Even if it were leather or kevlar or something else tough it'd have to be pretty thick to reliably stop anything.

[The Ninth Republic]

For obvious reasons, armor was mainly used by people defending trenches - sentries, machine gunners and snipers!

Shotguns, of course, have negligible fighting value.

If you want to attack a trench with armor, put it on tracks!

[Purpelia]

Ain't that a bit too much? Just imagine that German armor I linked to with a normal steel helmet and a knight like face plate that's pike shaped at the front and made of about 1cm thick steel. After all, these are assault troops meant to fight in close quarters so I don't need perfect all side protection. Their sides will be protected by the trench walls.

If your don't armor the sides, you get parried and a bayonet through your ribs/kidneys.

They would be armored. Just not rifle grade armored. Pistol and bayonet grade armored.

[Galla-]

This has literally no relevance to my post. Carrying 300 rounds of 9mm is better than carrying 100 rounds of 7.92x57mm. SMGs can also mount bayonets like rifles, and the lack of armor makes you able to carry more ammunition for the SMG, and more grenade bags.

(Image)

The above is what you should be aiming for any sort of storm troopers/infiltration troops. Massive amounts of lightweight automatic weapons, a few shotguns or carbines distributed around, and grenade bags. No obscenely heavy body armor that makes getting over obstacles and through mud an even more dangerous/deadly task, otherwise you end up like the French.

I'm not saying he had a good idea, just that your claim made no sense. It still doesn't; we were talking about the shock value of different weapons for shock troopers, not the logical reasons to use SMGs.

Repost?

Probably not. Even if it were leather or kevlar or something else tough it'd have to be pretty thick to reliably stop anything.

1) "Shock value" is about as pointless as "stopping power" when it comes to combat. If you're relying on your enemy to TREMBLE IN FEAR, you're not planning for fighting, you're planning for a costume party.
2) There exist suits today designed to do just such things, weighing less than 6 kg, or 14 lbs.

If your don't armor the sides, you get parried and a bayonet through your ribs/kidneys.

They would be armored. Just not rifle grade armored. Pistol and bayonet grade armored.

At several feet, which means stupidly heavy, thick, bulky armor like Brewster Body Shield. Such things are not meant to be worn by people who must move quickly.

[The Republic of Lanos]

If your don't armor the sides, you get parried and a bayonet through your ribs/kidneys.

They would be armored. Just not rifle grade armored. Pistol and bayonet grade armored.

At this rate, I would imagine the first semi-automatic battle rifles being invented in the 1910s-1920s...

[Galla-]

They would be armored. Just not rifle grade armored. Pistol and bayonet grade armored.

At this rate, I would imagine the first semi-automatic battle rifles being invented in the 1910s-1920s...

Try 1880s.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Nope, .280 British is 7.1x43mm. THIS is 7mm SPAC:

(Image)

So, it's got performance that'll be very similar to .280B but you had to propose it instead because you made it. #CordasgonnaCorda

TBF, I do pretty much the exact same thing. Mine is just a bastardization of the .280 designed to bear hotter loads.

[Indeos]

I'm not saying he had a good idea, just that your claim made no sense. It still doesn't; we were talking about the shock value of different weapons for shock troopers, not the logical reasons to use SMGs.



Probably not. Even if it were leather or kevlar or something else tough it'd have to be pretty thick to reliably stop anything.

1) "Shock value" is about as pointless as "stopping power" when it comes to combat. If you're relying on your enemy to TREMBLE IN FEAR, you're not planning for fighting, you're planning for a costume party.
2) There exist suits today designed to do just such things, weighing less than 6 kg, or 14 lbs.

1. Shock value was what the discussion was about. I don't particularly care whether it's useful or not; I was just pointing out that you kept shifting the discussion around.
2. Presumably those are still fairly thick. 14lbs is a couple times what normal clothes weigh.

[Nua Corda]

Nope, .280 British is 7.1x43mm. THIS is 7mm SPAC:

image

So, it's got performance that'll be very similar to .280B but you had to propose it instead because you made it. #CordasgonnaCorda

It's got performance similar to .280, but it fits in STANAG magazines and loads more modern bullets.

[Sevvania]

Ain't that a bit too much? Just imagine that German armor I linked to with a normal steel helmet and a knight like face plate that's pike shaped at the front and made of about 1cm thick steel. After all, these are assault troops meant to fight in close quarters so I don't need perfect all side protection. Their sides will be protected by the trench walls.

If your don't armor the sides, you get parried and a bayonet through your ribs/kidneys.

That is sufficient to stop pistol/rifle rounds and bayonets at close quarters.

Repost?

http://fort.ru/eng/catalog/7/34

I'm about ~1950 in terms of technology.

[The Ninth Republic]

Ain't that a bit too much? Just imagine that German armor I linked to with a normal steel helmet and a knight like face plate that's pike shaped at the front and made of about 1cm thick steel. After all, these are assault troops meant to fight in close quarters so I don't need perfect all side protection. Their sides will be protected by the trench walls.

Unfortunately the armor-piercing bullets liberally supplied to Great War machine guns and riflemen will penetrate 12-13mm of steel.