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Spreewerke
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Postby Spreewerke » Sat May 19, 2012 11:33 am

Indeos wrote:
Risen Britannia wrote:totally original design /sarcasm
(Image)
WIP

Were rails in general use during the cold war? (60s/70s era)


As far as I can tell, they weren't even invented till the 90s.


Picatinny rails were made in the mid-'90s, but I'm still trying to find out when the weaver rails came about.

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Indeos
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Postby Indeos » Sat May 19, 2012 11:34 am

Spreewerke wrote:
Indeos wrote:
As far as I can tell, they weren't even invented till the 90s.


Picatinny rails were made in the mid-'90s, but I'm still trying to find out when the weaver rails came about.


That's the problem I've been having. I figure they were made around the same time, though.
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Crookfur
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Postby Crookfur » Sat May 19, 2012 11:35 am

Risen Britannia wrote:totally original design /sarcasm
(Image)
WIP

Were rails in general use during the cold war? (60s/70s era)


nope.

There was a NATO rail spec that came around in the late 1980s and was used on the SA80 (and AK5 IIRC) but it was just for scopes

The common picatinny rail came about in the 80s but only actually featured on service firearms from the mid 90s onwards
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Sat May 19, 2012 11:35 am

Risen Britannia wrote:totally original design /sarcasm
(Image)
WIP

Were rails in general use during the cold war? (60s/70s era)

Weaver Pattern rails were invented in 1969.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat May 19, 2012 11:53 am

Purpelia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Random question of the day time!

I was looking for rifle grenades recently, trying to find some data to help me design a new one to augment my arsenal when my search took me to world.guns.ru. There I ran into something quite interesting. And after a while of searching I ran into this: http://ebookbrowse.com/soviet-taubin-40 ... d140335000

Three questions now:
1) How effective do you think something like this would be in WW2?
2) How realistic do you think it would be for me to make a claim to have developed and used it during said period?
3) Can anyone find me more data about it?

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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Indeos
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Postby Indeos » Sat May 19, 2012 11:55 am

Purpelia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Repeated for great justice.

Great justice is upset...


I couldn't find any more data, and you should be able to figure out #1. It's an AGL; it'd be hugely effective.
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Celtic Colonies
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Postby Celtic Colonies » Sat May 19, 2012 11:56 am

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:Is there any reason why machine gun covers don't hinge sideways?


Image

Like that you mean?
Honestly not sure, I can see there being a slight issue with that particular layout drawing the rounds up really close to the trigger hand, unless the gun body is very wide, but that's about the only thing springing to mind right now.
Actually, just realised it could also make reloading more awkward if you have the stock of the gun pulled in close against you - you'd have to move yourself away from it somewhat to get that open.
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Sat May 19, 2012 12:01 pm

Celtic Colonies wrote:
Samozaryadnyastan wrote:Is there any reason why machine gun covers don't hinge sideways?


Image

Like that you mean?
Honestly not sure, I can see there being a slight issue with that particular layout drawing the rounds up really close to the trigger hand, unless the gun body is very wide, but that's about the only thing springing to mind right now.
Actually, just realised it could also make reloading more awkward if you have the stock of the gun pulled in close against you - you'd have to move yourself away from it somewhat to get that open.

More a sort of rotating action. The cover is still on the top, but hinges over and to the left in a right-feeding weapon.
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Sat May 19, 2012 12:07 pm

On an unrelated law, why does the Hague convention on expanding small arms rounds only apply to military use?
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Spreewerke
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Postby Spreewerke » Sat May 19, 2012 12:08 pm

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:On an unrelated law, why does the Hague convention on expanding small arms rounds only apply to military use?



Are you asking why civilians can still use expanding ammunition?

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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Sat May 19, 2012 12:10 pm

Spreewerke wrote:
Samozaryadnyastan wrote:On an unrelated law, why does the Hague convention on expanding small arms rounds only apply to military use?



Are you asking why civilians can still use expanding ammunition?

Basically yeah.
I don't feel it's less inhumane for a man to use an 'inhumane' round to defend himself and his property than for a soldier to do the same for himself and his comrades.
Last edited by Samozaryadnyastan on Sat May 19, 2012 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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^ trufax
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Spreewerke
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Postby Spreewerke » Sat May 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:
Spreewerke wrote:

Are you asking why civilians can still use expanding ammunition?

Basically yeah.



Expanding rounds are far more effective against soft targets. It makes hunting far more humane as it really helps in making sure the hit does as much damage as possible (basically meaning a one-shot-kill is far more likely while hunting). Same concept for self-defense ammunition: more tissue damage per shot.

I think the military is restricted to FMJ/non-expanding only simply because people are pussies and want more of their soldiers wounded rather than killed. Granted, I'm sure the soldiers want that, too, it is really a hindrance in many situations. I would personally prefer expanding ammunition for insurgent-type forces without armor (see Afghanistan and Iraq) since the FMJ/N.E. ammunition would just punch through with minimal damage to tissues.

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Indeos
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Postby Indeos » Sat May 19, 2012 12:14 pm

Spreewerke wrote:
Samozaryadnyastan wrote:Basically yeah.



Expanding rounds are far more effective against soft targets. It makes hunting far more humane as it really helps in making sure the hit does as much damage as possible (basically meaning a one-shot-kill is far more likely while hunting). Same concept for self-defense ammunition: more tissue damage per shot.

I think the military is restricted to FMJ/non-expanding only simply because people are pussies and want more of their soldiers wounded rather than killed. Granted, I'm sure the soldiers want that, too, it is really a hindrance in many situations. I would personally prefer expanding ammunition for insurgent-type forces without armor (see Afghanistan and Iraq) since the FMJ/N.E. ammunition would just punch through with minimal damage to tissues.


I think the idea was also to make injuries less severe, so wounded troops could recover easier.
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat May 19, 2012 12:26 pm

Speaking of, is it just me or does it seem that all first world nations are geared for now is counter-insurgency?
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Sevvania
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Postby Sevvania » Sat May 19, 2012 12:28 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Speaking of, is it just me or does it seem that all first world nations are geared for now is counter-insurgency?


How often do we really encounter anything else, though?
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Crookfur
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Postby Crookfur » Sat May 19, 2012 12:32 pm

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:On an unrelated law, why does the Hague convention on expanding small arms rounds only apply to military use?


Because the entire Hague convention was on rules of war between nations and nothing to do with internal security or regulating civilian affairs.

The expanding bullet thign was IIRC due to a a lack of knowledge and a lot scare mongering. It was thought that expandign bullets (particularly the british "dum-dum" ammo) was far more likely to injure rather than kill out right and that the injuries induced would be more difficult to treat and lead to "greater suffering" and disability.

This was of coruse contrary to what actual experiemental shooters and ballisticians were discovering but what politician is goign to let science get in the way of making a stance on "cleaning up warfare!".

On the other hand the 37mm minimum size for HE rounds was actually based on the fact that HE in anything smaller than that was totally pointless at the time and nobody really saw the potential of HE-Frag to any great degree (msot of the major pwoers started WW1 with feild gun ammo laods that were 70-90% old school shrapnel.
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Sat May 19, 2012 12:42 pm

So, realistically, the Hague ought to be massively updated, but no one ever will because of political reasons?
Sevvania wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Speaking of, is it just me or does it seem that all first world nations are geared for now is counter-insurgency?


How often do we really encounter anything else, though?

This is an excellent point.

In fact, the Russian ground forces are undergoing a 90% reduction in manpower according to wiki (probably more due to general reorganisation of priorities) and the US is thinking about changing to much smaller units sizes to make them more suitable to COIN.
Last edited by Samozaryadnyastan on Sat May 19, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spreewerke
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Postby Spreewerke » Sat May 19, 2012 12:43 pm

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:
Sevvania wrote:
How often do we really encounter anything else, though?

This is an excellent point.

In fact, the Russian ground forces are undergoing a 90% reduction in manpower according to wiki (probably more due to general reorganisation of priorities) and the US is thinking about changing to much smaller units sizes to make them more suitable to COIN.



But then those Commie Reds from Chian will invade our sea-ports in Kalifornia! Since there's no effective firearms in the state, they'll be overrun in a matter of seconds! Think of the children!

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Sevvania
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Postby Sevvania » Sat May 19, 2012 12:49 pm

Spreewerke wrote:
Samozaryadnyastan wrote:This is an excellent point.

In fact, the Russian ground forces are undergoing a 90% reduction in manpower according to wiki (probably more due to general reorganisation of priorities) and the US is thinking about changing to much smaller units sizes to make them more suitable to COIN.



But then those Commie Reds from Chian will invade our sea-ports in Kalifornia! Since there's no effective firearms in the state, they'll be overrun in a matter of seconds! Think of the children!


But they won't make it past Texas.

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Risen Britannia
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Postby Risen Britannia » Sat May 19, 2012 12:53 pm

Samozaryadnyastan wrote:
Risen Britannia wrote:totally original design /sarcasm
(Image)
WIP

Were rails in general use during the cold war? (60s/70s era)

Weaver Pattern rails were invented in 1969.

YAY. So I could add some to my "totally original"cold war rifle?
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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Sat May 19, 2012 12:54 pm

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Yes Im Biop
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Postby Yes Im Biop » Sat May 19, 2012 12:58 pm



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New Corda
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Postby New Corda » Sat May 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Image
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I'm a gun-toting liberal. I support gay rights, abortion, social democracy, high taxes on the rich and the right to own an automatic grenade launcher. I'll tolerate your beliefs if you tolerate mine
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The Reliquary
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Postby The Reliquary » Sat May 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Speaking of, is it just me or does it seem that all first world nations are geared for now is counter-insurgency?

They're not really, they're just focusing on the current operations; there's no need to stop Third Shock Army in its tracks anymore.

Plus defence budgets are coming down to realistic levels. Which isn't a bad thing.

But non-COIN training continues:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/defenceimages/7090851985/
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Defen ... avalry.htm
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/02/n ... ch-020612/
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Risen Britannia
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Postby Risen Britannia » Sat May 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Speaking of, is it just me or does it seem that all first world nations are geared for now is counter-insurgency?

England doesn't even need an army to stop invaders.

"England has been invaded at various points throughout its history. Fortunately, every invader mysteriously became English when they took over, thus leaving England undefeated."
Last edited by Risen Britannia on Sat May 19, 2012 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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