Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.IV

[Ea90]

What is the heaviest a tank can get and still remain air-droppable?

[Risen Britannia]

What is the heaviest a tank can get and still remain air-droppable?

well it depends on what is carrying the tank.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Everything is air-droppable once
Also, is it just me, or does the CH-54 look quite unstable due to lack of fuselage?

Also

Are light tanks such as the M551 Sheridan armed with high-calibre gun-launchers still a viable part of armoured doctrine? I'm wondering if I should consider a gun-launcher equipped variant of my light tank to complement the autocannon variant.

After all, with its gun launcher the Sheridan could have supported infantry by destroying enemy tanks with Shillelagh, and destroying buildings and fortifications with a variety of other munitions. Or it could have functioned in a Tank Destroying role, being dropped behind enemy lines and wreaking havoc upon defensive formations of enemy tanks.

[The Akasha Colony]

Everything is air-droppable once
Also, is it just me, or does the CH-54 look quite unstable due to lack of fuselage?

Also

Are light tanks such as the M551 Sheridan armed with high-calibre gun-launchers still a viable part of armoured doctrine? I'm wondering if I should consider a gun-launcher equipped variant of my light tank to complement the autocannon variant.

After all, with its gun launcher the Sheridan could have supported infantry by destroying enemy tanks with Shillelagh, and destroying buildings and fortifications with a variety of other munitions. Or it could have functioned in a Tank Destroying role, being dropped behind enemy lines and wreaking havoc upon defensive formations of enemy tanks.

The development of GLATGMs shows it can be done, but overall, it seems that the light tank platform in general is just not a popular platform. An IFV can do everything a light tank can, but can also carry troops. It ultimately depends on your doctrine, and whether or not your infantry could call on heavy support from another source, such as an MBT, or if light tanks are the biggest things they're likely to have. The alternative is to issue recoilless weapons to infantrymen, but the utility of that depends on how light you want those infantrymen to be, and how much vehicle support is available.

Technologically, it can be done. Whether or not it should be done is a matter of each nation's doctrine.

[Risen Britannia]

If you want an air portable tank with a 120mm, why not use the GIAT FER 120mm low-recoil tank gun?

"The French company GIAT is developing a low-recoil 120mm gun to equip future air transportable armored fighting vehicles weighing around 18 tons. The 120 FER is a derivative of the F1 gun mounted on the Leclerc main battle tank, retaining the same qualities, such as a long barrel, providing better accuracy, trunnion balance and stabilization. The main difference is the lower recoil forces extracted to the turret and, therefore, reducing integration constraints. The new 52 Cal. Smooth bore, chromium plated gun weighs 2.5 tons (including cradle) and measures 7.1 meters in length (barrel length is 6.2 meters). It can fire all current NATO ammunition (STANAG 4385) as well as newly developed ammunition and is suitable for future ETC-ignited ammunition."

Its basically what I use in my "Rapier"

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Do want, how does it work?

[Cyprum Xecuii]

Everything is air-droppable once
Also, is it just me, or does the CH-54 look quite unstable due to lack of fuselage?

Also

Are light tanks such as the M551 Sheridan armed with high-calibre gun-launchers still a viable part of armoured doctrine? I'm wondering if I should consider a gun-launcher equipped variant of my light tank to complement the autocannon variant.

After all, with its gun launcher the Sheridan could have supported infantry by destroying enemy tanks with Shillelagh, and destroying buildings and fortifications with a variety of other munitions. Or it could have functioned in a Tank Destroying role, being dropped behind enemy lines and wreaking havoc upon defensive formations of enemy tanks.

Well regardless, I'd use a Sheridan, i mean since most of my vehicles don't have large barrels (mainly use missiles and HE shells) I'd rather use that with indigenous made ATGMs rather then conventional MBTs with the long cannons and what not. but that's just me.

I do have a question somewhat relating to that though. Is it possible to use a tandem DU penetrator + HE burst shell all in one? Here's my new light support tank with the round to show what it would look like.

See, when the shell is fired, the cap breaks off to allow for higher velocity and range (stabilized by the fins, which connect to the HE portion of the round), and so when the penetrator penetrates through APC or medium / light vehicle armor, it goes in and then bursts HE which fragments and kills those inside. Why not simply one long DU penetrator or HEAT? well it's just a concept i thought could work with my basic observations of a tandem charge. The main point of it was that, if the DU penatrator actually dug into the armor but didn't actually go all the way through, a HE explosion could break away the armor, allowing for a another hit to possibly make it in.

[Risen Britannia]

Do want, how does it work?

Im not sure, there isn't much on-line about it that I can find. All I know is that it was at EUROSATORY.

Its where I get allot of my inspiration for vehicles

[Anomalous Research and Containment]

Everything is air-droppable once
Also, is it just me, or does the CH-54 look quite unstable due to lack of fuselage?

Also

Well regardless, I'd use a Sheridan, i mean since most of my vehicles don't have large barrels (mainly use missiles and HE shells) I'd rather use that with indigenous made ATGMs rather then conventional MBTs with the long cannons and what not. but that's just me.

I do have a question somewhat relating to that though. Is it possible to use a tandem DU penetrator + HE burst shell all in one? Here's my new light support tank with the round to show what it would look like.

See, when the shell is fired, the cap breaks off to allow for higher velocity and range (stabilized by the fins, which connect to the HE portion of the round), and so when the penetrator penetrates through APC or medium / light vehicle armor, it goes in and then bursts HE which fragments and kills those inside. Why not simply one long DU penetrator or HEAT? well it's just a concept i thought could work with my basic observations of a tandem charge. The main point of it was that, if the DU penatrator actually dug into the armor but didn't actually go all the way through, a HE explosion could break away the armor, allowing for a another hit to possibly make it in.

Not sure why you want to.

DU penetrators already burst into flames once they've penetrated, and also tend to fragment and spray their hot load all over the crew.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

Do want, how does it work?

A good muzzle brake, increased recoiling mass, and a long recoil length.

[Cyprum Xecuii]

Well regardless, I'd use a Sheridan, i mean since most of my vehicles don't have large barrels (mainly use missiles and HE shells) I'd rather use that with indigenous made ATGMs rather then conventional MBTs with the long cannons and what not. but that's just me.

I do have a question somewhat relating to that though. Is it possible to use a tandem DU penetrator + HE burst shell all in one? Here's my new light support tank with the round to show what it would look like.

(Image)

See, when the shell is fired, the cap breaks off to allow for higher velocity and range (stabilized by the fins, which connect to the HE portion of the round), and so when the penetrator penetrates through APC or medium / light vehicle armor, it goes in and then bursts HE which fragments and kills those inside. Why not simply one long DU penetrator or HEAT? well it's just a concept i thought could work with my basic observations of a tandem charge. The main point of it was that, if the DU penatrator actually dug into the armor but didn't actually go all the way through, a HE explosion could break away the armor, allowing for a another hit to possibly make it in.

Not sure why you want to.

DU penetrators already burst into flames once they've penetrated, and also tend to fragment and spray their hot load all over the crew.

I remember when in the first gulf war, a BMP managed to fire back at a Bradley, since the round from a Abrams didn't slice all the way through went through like butter without killing anyone or damaging the gun equipment itself.

but the main point for the AP + HE tandem round i have is that if a round manages to push in through armor, but not all the way through, it could use an HE explosive to crack it open just a bit more, just so it makes it a bit easier.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

DU penetrators already burst into flames once they've penetrated, and also tend to fragment and spray their hot load all over the crew.

DU aside, the concept is viable, isn't it? I think the Hellfire has provision for a secondary charge to be fired through the hole produced by the main charge's penetration.

[Anomalous Research and Containment]

DU penetrators already burst into flames once they've penetrated, and also tend to fragment and spray their hot load all over the crew.

DU aside, the concept is viable, isn't it? I think the Hellfire has provision for a secondary charge to be fired through the hole produced by the main charge's penetration.

HEAT rounds do not produce massive, gaping wounds in armoured vehicles. Unless you can produce a decent explosive charge the size of a lug nut, it won't work.

Hellfire has a tandem charge for defeating ERA, that's it.

Not sure why you want to.

DU penetrators already burst into flames once they've penetrated, and also tend to fragment and spray their hot load all over the crew.

I remember when in the first gulf war, a BMP managed to fire back at a Bradley, since the round from a Abrams didn't slice all the way through.

but the main point for the AP + HE tandem round i have is that if a round manages to push in through armor, but not all the way through, it could use an HE explosive to crack it open just a bit more, just so it makes it a bit easier.

HEAT vs. Abrams side skirt:



Fit a good sized HE warhead through that.

It gets narrower as it penetrates deeper, too.

[Cyprum Xecuii]

DU aside, the concept is viable, isn't it? I think the Hellfire has provision for a secondary charge to be fired through the hole produced by the main charge's penetration.

HEAT rounds do not produce massive, gaping wounds in armoured vehicles. Unless you can produce a decent explosive charge the size of a lug nut, it won't work.

Hellfire has a tandem charge for defeating ERA, that's it.

I remember when in the first gulf war, a BMP managed to fire back at a Bradley, since the round from a Abrams didn't slice all the way through.

but the main point for the AP + HE tandem round i have is that if a round manages to push in through armor, but not all the way through, it could use an HE explosive to crack it open just a bit more, just so it makes it a bit easier.

HEAT vs. Abrams side skirt:



Fit a good sized HE warhead through that.

It gets narrower as it penetrates deeper, too.

well i never expected to use a light tank against an MBT but i suppose...i just it seemed like a viable idea, and i never said I'd use HEAT rounds.

I said my rounds would be fitted into light tanks to fight IFVs and APCs, just using the AP to go into the vehicles, then use the HE to make sure everyone inside is dead for sure. yes, AP rods will "burn up and splatter" and kill people inside, but you gotta make sure they have no chance of surviving. plus it's a 60mm round, you'll need the extra burst to make sure.

[Ea90]

Is it possible to use a 140mm conventional (i.e. non-ETC) high-velocity gun with a muzzle energy of about 18MJ on a 43 tonne tank?

[Anomalous Research and Containment]

HEAT rounds do not produce massive, gaping wounds in armoured vehicles. Unless you can produce a decent explosive charge the size of a lug nut, it won't work.

Hellfire has a tandem charge for defeating ERA, that's it.



HEAT vs. Abrams side skirt:



Fit a good sized HE warhead through that.

It gets narrower as it penetrates deeper, too.

well i never expected to use a light tank against an MBT but i suppose...i just it seemed like a viable idea, and i never said I'd use HEAT rounds

With a DU penetrator, an HE follow up would be redundant.

The crew is already dead.

[Cyprum Xecuii]

well i never expected to use a light tank against an MBT but i suppose...i just it seemed like a viable idea, and i never said I'd use HEAT rounds

With a DU penetrator, an HE follow up would be redundant.

The crew is already dead.

check above, had something more to say.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Is it possible to use a 140mm conventional (i.e. non-ETC) high-velocity gun with a muzzle energy of about 18MJ on a 43 tonne tank?

That's about one and a half times the muzzle energy of a 120mm conventional.

I believe Sen said ToT has an equation for this sort of thing, brb.
I = m_pV₀ + m_oV_o

I = Impulse (Ns)
m_p = projectile mass
V₀ = muzzle velocity of projectile
m_o = mass of propellant charge
V_o = muzzle velocity of propellant gases

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Do want, how does it work?

Im not sure, there isn't much on-line about it that I can find. All I know is that it was at EUROSATORY.

Its where I get allot of my inspiration for vehicles

I'm fairly certain that two of the vehicles further down the lists were in Endwar, both for European Federation forces.

[Risen Britannia]

Im not sure, there isn't much on-line about it that I can find. All I know is that it was at EUROSATORY.

Its where I get allot of my inspiration for vehicles

I'm fairly certain that two of the vehicles further down the lists were in Endwar, both for European Federation forces.

ENDWAR is very loosely based on RL, some of the units are real or planned.

[The Akasha Colony]

With a DU penetrator, an HE follow up would be redundant.

The crew is already dead.

check above, had something more to say.

The concept you mentioned has been done, but in reverse. Modern High-Explosive Incendiary/Armor Piercing rounds place their explosive charge first, and their penetrator second, which is flanked by zirconium powder, which burns like a mofo. But HEIAP ammunition is generally limited to smaller weapons like 12.7 mm NATO where the explosive charge may be of some benefit against the sort of light vehicle armor a 12.7 mm gun may engage. The zirconium is used since modern HEIAP uses tungsten carbide, rather than DU, as a penetrator, and tungsten carbide won't ignite like DU will.

Generally though, a combined munition will lack the effectiveness of either munition. The explosive filler will be lighter than the equivalent volume of DU/tungsten, reducing the round's kinetic energy and interfering with ballistics. Relative to a pure KE penetrator of the same caliber fired from the same gun, armor penetration will be inferior. But with a smaller explosive charge than a dedicated HEAT round, it will lack the same effectiveness of that round as well. It's easier to just use a normal long-run penetrator to destroy the vehicle, and then just machine gun the crew while they're disoriented after bailing out. That's what your coax is for, or at worst, a follow-up show with anti-personnel munitions.

[Ea90]

Is it possible to use a 140mm conventional (i.e. non-ETC) high-velocity gun with a muzzle energy of about 18MJ on a 43 tonne tank?

That's about one and a half times the muzzle energy of a 120mm conventional.

I believe Sen said ToT has an equation for this sort of thing, brb.
I = m_pV₀ + m_oV_o

I = Impulse (Ns)
m_p = projectile mass
V₀ = muzzle velocity of projectile
m_o = mass of propellant charge
V_o = muzzle velocity of propellant gases

Is the velocity of the gases be the same as that of the projectile?
E: Also, what is ToT?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Technology of Tanks, a $700 tome by Jane's.

Velocity of the propellant gases is expansion of gasses, I believe, and is thus different or they would have stated they are the same.

[Bafuria]

Designation: lolidunno
Introduced: 1968
Type: Main Battle Tank
Number produced: 1100

Weight: 42 tons
Length: 10.96 meters gun forward (Hull length 7.2 meters
Height: 2.6 meters (turret roof)
Width: 3.6 meters
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner Loader)

Primary armament: Rifled 105mm L62. 55 rounds stored in turret bustle
Secondary armament: 2x 7.92mm machineguns (one coaxial and one commander's weapon.)
Frontal armor: 180mm high-hardness steel + Heavy ERA (RHAe total 400-500mm vs KE, 700-800mm vs CE)

Engine: 800 bhp turbocharged diesel engine.
Power to weight ratio: 19 hp/ton
Fuel capacity: 1200 l internally.
Top speed: limited at 65 kph
Range: 400 km on road, 250 km off road.

This is still wip, but please comment.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

Is it possible to use a 140mm conventional (i.e. non-ETC) high-velocity gun with a muzzle energy of about 18MJ on a 43 tonne tank?

The Leclerc 140mm was really pushing it. Given that your 140mm seems to be a bit less powerful than the IRL 140mm, you should be able to get away with putting that gun on that tank provided you have a nice muzzle brake.