Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.IV

[Rich and Corporations]

Is there any way for things to not get that bulky? As in that sight is almost the size of the rifle.

No, the French army are simply a mixture of sadists and masochists, which is why they are adding a few extra pounds of kit to an already overburdened soldier to fight a poorly equipped and poorly skilled force for which this equipment would provide marginal advantage against.

I actually use something very similar to this. It's a base radio/GPS that comes with some basic "smartphone" capabilities. The system can pass on position and other information to the authorized higher level officers. Also ties in with my vehicles for a better battlefield network.

Naturally to play devil's advocate, I'm just going to put out that electricity is a premium on the frontlines, and that:
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/attr ... -letters-1
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/arti ... -letters-2

[Spirit of Hope]

Is there any way for things to not get that bulky? As in that sight is almost the size of the rifle.

No, the French army are simply a mixture of sadists and masochists, which is why they are adding a few extra pounds of kit to an already overburdened soldier to fight a poorly equipped and poorly skilled force for which this equipment would provide marginal advantage against.

I actually use something very similar to this. It's a base radio/GPS that comes with some basic "smartphone" capabilities. The system can pass on position and other information to the authorized higher level officers. Also ties in with my vehicles for a better battlefield network.

Naturally to play devil's advocate, I'm just going to put out that electricity is a premium on the frontlines, and that:
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/attr ... -letters-1
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/arti ... -letters-2

Which is why my armored vehicles have plugs for the soldiers to recharge from. Plus I hand the center modules out rather easily so most transports have a spare sitting around for the troops to swap out, also helps incase equipment gets broken.

[Dostanuot Loj]

([url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg/220px-FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg]Image)[/url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%89LIN
It's exactly how I say it is.

The only reason why NS doesn't appear (I haven't read all RPs mind you) to make use of FELIN is probably because they read firearms blogs, and think 100 round capacity magazines are best.

Is there any way for things to not get that bulky? As in that sight is almost the size of the rifle.

A note, the FELIN computer weighs almost as much as the unloaded rifle, and is all far forward. It's quire awkward. French army is planning to issue FELIN on a per-squad basis, leading fireteams using cut-down FAMAS.

The planned move to the new rifle might change things though.

[Registug]

([url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg/220px-FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg]Image)[/url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%89LIN
It's exactly how I say it is.

The only reason why NS doesn't appear (I haven't read all RPs mind you) to make use of FELIN is probably because they read firearms blogs, and think 100 round capacity magazines are best.

Us Aussies must be geniuses then because we've come up with PUT A FUCKING MIRROR ON YOUR SIGHT AND YOU CAN SEE AROUND CORNERS NOW.



http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/tech ... uture.aspx

Registug, being not-Australia of year 2030, has already do stuff what with networks and shit. Don't ask for a full explanation now, I just woke up.

[Triplebaconation]

The "FELIN computer" (I assume we're talking about the Sword rather than the PEP) weighs less than 1.5kg in the operational version. An ACOG or something weighs roughly .5kg. A kilogram isn't bad for an incredible advantage, particularly at night.

[The Kievan People]

Mounting the engine in the back of an APC or IFV is a bad idea. Do not do it.

So what's the deal with the BMP-3?

It's not the greatest configuration...

The rear mounted engine forces the passengers to expose themselves when exiting the vehicle and it makes the crew compartment very cramped relative to other APCs and IFVs of comparable size.

[The Kievan People]

That looks like the M116 Howitzer.
No one uses 75mm howitzers anymore,
because a 75mm howitzer would make a decent vehicle-mounted fire support weapon, and would be an excellent airdroppable piece of kit.

A 75mm pack howitzer weighs about as much as three 120mm mortars, but has a fraction of the firepower of one 120mm mortar.

[San-Silvacian]

That looks like the M116 Howitzer.
No one uses 75mm howitzers anymore,
because a 75mm howitzer would make a decent vehicle-mounted fire support weapon, and would be an excellent airdroppable piece of kit.

A 75mm pack howitzer weighs about as much as three 120mm mortars, but has a fraction of the firepower of one 120mm mortar.

I think a 75mm could still be useful. The M116 has 2,000 or so more yards of effective range than a K6. Its also a good direct-fire piece, while a K6 is indirect only.

I could also see the M116 being more accurate than the mortar. Certainly you could lighten a 75mm howitzer more.

[Rich and Corporations]

That looks like the M116 Howitzer.
No one uses 75mm howitzers anymore,
because a 75mm howitzer would make a decent vehicle-mounted fire support weapon, and would be an excellent airdroppable piece of kit.

A 75mm pack howitzer weighs about as much as three 120mm mortars, but has a fraction of the firepower of one 120mm mortar.

Define "firepower."
High explosives makes bigger craters, but a high HE to weight ratio reduces the size of shell fragments.
Furthermore, that howitzer is from the mid cold war era, and that mortar is from after the cold war.
Don't make me make arguments about modern turbines being better then 80s turbines.
Besides, different roles. If you're somehow implying my dismissal of Grom, then well, there's a reason why the Russians have moved away from Grom.

---

I'm going to be writing a book: "M1A3: A History of the American Main Battle Tank, Volume 3" (completely fictional of course)
This probably means I won't bother you guys as much.
Although I have one question: how much volume is the engine compartment for a sedan? Google seems to think displacement is a synonym for volume, which is styming my efforts.

---

I'm being trolled by the internets. I googled M1A3 Abrams.
http://armada.ge/?p=523
I get that ^

[Vitaphone Racing]

how much volume is the engine compartment for a sedan? Google seems to think displacement is a synonym for volume, which is styming my efforts.

What kind of sedan?

This is the sort of question you're likely to never going to get a straight answer on because it's a pretty meaningless set of dimensions. The best way to figure this out would be to measure the l/w/h of any random car's engine bay front and back with a tape measure, try to plot that as curves and use a double integral function on a CAS calculator to get the volume.

[Immoren]

So what's the deal with the BMP-3?

It's not the greatest configuration...

The rear mounted engine forces the passengers to expose themselves when exiting the vehicle and it makes the crew compartment very cramped relative to other APCs and IFVs of comparable size.

Do remember wrongly, but wasn't BMP-3 "light tank turned into IFV" instead of being IFV from ground up?

High explosives makes bigger craters, but a high HE to weight ratio reduces the size of shell fragments.

But smaller fragments means more even coverage.

[Rich and Corporations]

But smaller fragments means more even coverage.

1000 fragments versus a hundred thousand.

Do remember wrongly, but wasn't BMP-3 "light tank turned into IFV" instead of being IFV from ground up?

Oddly enough, according to wikipedia, the BMP-3 was based upon a light tank prototype.
For some reason they decided not to rotate the hull around 180 degrees.

[Purpelia]

Naturally to play devil's advocate, I'm just going to put out that electricity is a premium on the frontlines, and that:
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/attr ... -letters-1
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/arti ... -letters-2

I have the power issue solved quite elegantly actually. But everyone here knows about that part so I won't bother repeating the details.

A note, the FELIN computer weighs almost as much as the unloaded rifle, and is all far forward. It's quire awkward. French army is planning to issue FELIN on a per-squad basis, leading fireteams using cut-down FAMAS.

The planned move to the new rifle might change things though.

Is there any place where I can find more details on this computer? Wikipedia seems to be lacking.

[Kouralia]

([url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg/220px-FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg]Image)[/url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%89LIN
It's exactly how I say it is.

The only reason why NS doesn't appear (I haven't read all RPs mind you) to make use of FELIN is probably because they read firearms blogs, and think 100 round capacity magazines are best.

Us Aussies must be geniuses then because we've come up with PUT A FUCKING MIRROR ON YOUR SIGHT AND YOU CAN SEE AROUND CORNERS NOW.



http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/tech ... uture.aspx

Registug, being not-Australia of year 2030, has already do stuff what with networks and shit. Don't ask for a full explanation now, I just woke up.

Fucking Aussies, how do they work?

I'm going to use that on my rifles.

[The Kievan People]

Define "firepower."
High explosives makes bigger craters, but a high HE to weight ratio reduces the size of shell fragments.
Furthermore, that howitzer is from the mid cold war era, and that mortar is from after the cold war.
Don't make me make arguments about modern turbines being better then 80s turbines.
Besides, different roles. If you're somehow implying my dismissal of Grom, then well, there's a reason why the Russians have moved away from Grom.

A 75mm pack howitzer is like three interwar 120mm mortars strapped together:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MORTARS6.htm

More powerful shells, higher ROF, higher angle of impact. Compare the firing norms for a 76mm gun/howitzer and a 120mm mortar. To neutralize one hectare of dug-in troops in prepared defense strongpoint positions with a battalion of eighteen 76mm guns or howitzers would require over four minutes of continuous fire. The same mission could be accomplished by a battalion of eighteen 120mm mortars in under a minute.

Or to put it another way a battery of 120mm mortars would take about as long to complete the mission as a battalion of 76mm guns/howitzers.

[Hurdegaryp]

([url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg/220px-FELIN-openphotonet_PICT6047.jpg]Image)[/url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%89LIN
It's exactly how I say it is.

The only reason why NS doesn't appear (I haven't read all RPs mind you) to make use of FELIN is probably because they read firearms blogs, and think 100 round capacity magazines are best.

Us Aussies must be geniuses then because we've come up with PUT A FUCKING MIRROR ON YOUR SIGHT AND YOU CAN SEE AROUND CORNERS NOW.

Hax!

[Purpelia]

Fucking Aussies, how do they work?

I'm going to use that on my rifles.

It seems to just be a detachable periscope. As in a nothing fancy at all. You could probably make one as back as WW1 or something. (And IIRC they even did so back than.)

[Registug]

Fucking Aussies, how do they work?

:p I'm going to use that on my rifles.

It seems to just be a detachable periscope. As in a nothing fancy at all. You could probably make one as back as WW1 or something. (And IIRC they even did so back than.)

The Australians used periscope rifles on the Western Front in WWI.

We should take this to MilReal. In my just-woke-up I misread this to be the milreal thread and posted irrelevant shit here.

[Purpelia]

It seems to just be a detachable periscope. As in a nothing fancy at all. You could probably make one as back as WW1 or something. (And IIRC they even did so back than.)

The Australians used periscope rifles on the Western Front in WWI.

We should take this to MilReal. In my just-woke-up I misread this to be the milreal thread and posted irrelevant shit here.

Speaking of that. This all started about the French and tanks. So I might as well post my question while we are here. Would the AMX-40 make for a good contemporary to the likes of the T-72 and M1? And do you think the platform would be as receptive to upgrades as those two? Because I really like the tank and want to base my own tank on it. But it's sort of old.

[Arthurista]

What do you guys think about the passive armour scheme below for my tank in development? Viable?

...the highly sloped glacis of the tank is protected by a modular composite armour suite. It is fronted by a perforated plate of hardened steel, followed by a laminate of multiple layers of titanium carbide and other ceramics, rubber and RHS, terminating in a backing plate of depleted uranium arranged in a lattice matrix. The crew compartment is encased in an armoured cocoon. Its front wall is composed of a layer of tungsten disulphide sandwiched between more RHS, set at a straight 90 degrees perpendicular to the floor of the tank. The void space between the glacis plate and the crew compartment front wall is filled with foam, which works to further degrade the performance of penetrating HEAT jets. The front plate can be penetrated multiple times and, as long as the crew compartment is not breached, the crew will remain unharmed and the tank fully functional.

[Ea90]

Armour isn't really my forte, but it seems good to me.

[Arthurista]

Armour isn't really my forte, but it seems good to me.

Thanks! I'm most concerned about not applying perforated armour correctly and mischaracterising the void space thingie.

[Connori Pilgrims]

The Australians used periscope rifles on the Western Front in WWI.

We should take this to MilReal. In my just-woke-up I misread this to be the milreal thread and posted irrelevant shit here.

Speaking of that. This all started about the French and tanks. So I might as well post my question while we are here. Would the AMX-40 make for a good contemporary to the likes of the T-72 and M1? And do you think the platform would be as receptive to upgrades as those two? Because I really like the tank and want to base my own tank on it. But it's sort of old.

I do kinda like the AMX-40, its got a good 120mm gun and mobility. Unfortunately from what I know of it its armour is pretty substandard, being only rated for 100mm-level APFSDS and HEAT. So its got the gun and mobility but no armor... which I think partly played towards its failure in the tank export market.

You could cook up some zany reactive/add-on armour upgrade coupled with fire-control, ammunition and engine upgrades; although it might end up being just basically some kind of pseudo-Leclerc without an autoloader.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Any idea how good French weapons are? Given how awesome their tanks tend to be lately (ever since the glorious AMX-30) I am interested to know how they rate in other departments.

You should probably talk to Anemos Major about that one. Though, I have heard him say that Dassault HATES being in the fighter aircraft market, and that they don't market their wares NEARLY as much as they should.

What do Dassault want to do, exactly?

A 75mm pack howitzer weighs about as much as three 120mm mortars, but has a fraction of the firepower of one 120mm mortar.

I think a 75mm could still be useful. The M116 has 2,000 or so more yards of effective range than a K6. Its also a good direct-fire piece, while a K6 is indirect only.

I could also see the M116 being more accurate than the mortar. Certainly you could lighten a 75mm howitzer more.

Eight thousand yards is significantly beyond the horizon.
If you seriously think you need ten thousand yards of range, why not just give targeting whatever the hell it is to a dedicated artillery formation, an armoured formation, or CAS?

[The Akasha Colony]

What do you guys think about the passive armour scheme below for my tank in development? Viable?

...the highly sloped glacis of the tank is protected by a modular composite armour suite. It is fronted by a perforated plate of hardened steel, followed by a laminate of multiple layers of titanium carbide and other ceramics, rubber and RHS, terminating in a backing plate of depleted uranium arranged in a lattice matrix. The crew compartment is encased in an armoured cocoon. Its front wall is composed of a layer of tungsten disulphide sandwiched between more RHS, set at a straight 90 degrees perpendicular to the floor of the tank. The void space between the glacis plate and the crew compartment front wall is filled with foam, which works to further degrade the performance of penetrating HEAT jets. The front plate can be penetrated multiple times and, as long as the crew compartment is not breached, the crew will remain unharmed and the tank fully functional.

IMO, the space between the crew compartment and the forward armor layer is wasted space. Better to either shrink the armor layer to fill that space and save weight and reduce size, or expand the crew armor cocoon to join the external armor and increase troop space.

And of course presumably the outermost layer of steel isn't actually perforated so as to prevent dust/dirt ingress.