Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mk.IV

[Indeos]

On FT planet taking: (because I just showed up) depend on assumptions.

Here their are 2 assumptions that can be made
Assumption 1: Planets will not be able to defend themselves from an enemy fleet. If this assumption is followed their is no real need for a dedicated army with heavy vehicles, any resistance nuke it from orbit. What you would need is a police force to keep planet populations in line, and carry out occupation duty. Maybe some specialty units for the very rare situation where you need a persuasion strike on a planet but can't or won't just capture/nuke the planet.

Assumption 2: Planets will be able to defend themselves form enemy fleets. The idea is here, if you can build missile capable of pulling lots of g's in acceleration then it could leave the gravity well and go and attack enemy fleet units. Here you see the need for a landing force as they could attempt to pass through enemy defenses and take out said defenses.

There's also orbital defenses and such, which would presumably be why Galla's example didn't involve even approaching the planet.

[Sevvania]

I'm looking into creating a WWII-era assault gun.

"An assault gun is a gun or howitzer mounted on a motor vehicle or armored chassis, designed for use in the direct fire role in support of infantry when attacking other infantry or fortified positions." - Wikipedia

With that in mind, what kind of armaments caliber gun should this thing have?

[Galla-]

I'm looking into creating a WWII-era assault gun.

"An assault gun is a gun or howitzer mounted on a motor vehicle or armored chassis, designed for use in the direct fire role in support of infantry when attacking other infantry or fortified positions." - Wikipedia

With that in mind, what kind of armaments should this thing have?

Presumably a howitzer...

[Sevvania]

Poor wording on my part, lol. I suppose a better question would be, what caliber should the main gun be? Should I go with something light, because it's primary targets are infantry and structures, or should I mount something with a bit more kick?

[The Akasha Colony]

I'm looking into creating a WWII-era assault gun.

"An assault gun is a gun or howitzer mounted on a motor vehicle or armored chassis, designed for use in the direct fire role in support of infantry when attacking other infantry or fortified positions." - Wikipedia

With that in mind, what kind of armaments should this thing have?

If you're looking for an infantry-support gun, then it'd be a large-caliber, generally short-barrel howitzer, or perhaps even a very large mortar. Some assault guns ended up with variants of tank cannons that made them useful tank destroyers, but for the pure infantry support role, the bigger the shell, the larger the explosive filler, so the greater the use. Caliber depends on the actual size of the vehicle, since they can range from light tanks with 75 mm guns to heavy tank behemoths with 150+ mm guns.

And then probably at least one machine gun to round out the armament.

[Spirit of Hope]

-snip myself-

There's also orbital defenses and such, which would presumably be why Galla's example didn't involve even approaching the planet.

Yes, but orbital defenses would lose some of the ability of planet based defenses. The atmosphere would protect against laser and particle weapons while the size of the planet and the ability to barry things would protect against missiles.

The thing is in such a universe it would be hard to take a system without taking the planet, think about it, missiles could have massive ranges, especially if they can turn their engines on and off. If you don't try and take the planet it could continuously shoot missiles at you, and because its a planet it would likely be able to keep producing missiles so you couldn't just "siege" the planet to force its surrender.

Personally my image of FT is massive warships that are almost impossible to kill. To take out a planet you just ask them to surrender or you grab a massive asteroid form the belt or the Oort cloud and send it on a collision course for the planet. If they somehow destroy or move it off of a collision course then grab another rinse and repeat. Eventually it would get through and the planet would die very messily.
Happily for me my vision of the future includes boarding actions...

Poor wording on my part, lol. I suppose a better question would be, what caliber should the main gun be?

Something like a 70-80mm gun would probably do the trick...

[Sevvania]

Here are four concept tanks.

Top-Left: A StuG-inspired assault gun with a fixed casemate and a stubby 88mm gun.
Top-Right: A 100mm cannon with a simple gunshield offering moderate protection.
Bottom-Left: Rotating turret with 120mm gun. But I dunno how I feel about it, it's kinda ugly.
Bottom-Right: Another open-top design, albeit with a more protective gunshield. This variant sports a 150mm howitzer.

Thoughts?

[Hladgos]

What is the largest rifled hunk of metal you could possibly move using modern methods. No railguns.

[The Grand World Order]

Mmm. Ohh myyy.

The Divine Tiger's primary armament is a modern high-pressure 152mm gun/missile system, which, given the technology available today, gives the Divine Tiger some serious firepower potential. The on-board computers allow for the gunner to cycle through thermal "hotspots" (which another tank would most certainly be) for automatic aiming, though of course, manual aiming via side-stick or yoke is certainly a feature. Said computer targeting programs also permit the gunner to target signals given by friendly forces, thus allowing for much easier indirect fire. The DT's secondary armament is typically a 20mm autocannon, though a good number (dubbed Fat Mamas or Longcats) are equipped with .50BMG machine guns. Tertiary (as in, the commander's gun) armament is typically a Browning M2, either on an electronic mount or with a ballistic shielding system surrounding the hatch. There is also room for a fourth machine gun, as the DT can carry an optional fourth crew member for in-field maintenance or as a reserve. This fourth gun is never one weapon in particular; it can range from an M-MG42 to a GMG to a TOW.

The missiles the DT can carry vary, with some of them guided by infrared, others by active RADAR homing, some by wire, and so on and so forth. One of the most commonly carried missiles is a 152mm tank-launched top-attack missile, with three main variants: one designed for anti-tank purposes (obviously), one as an anti-personnel beehive (flechette) munition, and one as a cluster bomb for mechanized infantry detachments. The Divine Tiger is also capable of firing a 152mm version of the SADARM shell.

The DT is also equipped with an Infantry Denial System, which is to prevent the tank from getting mobbed from all sides. The general workings of it feature grenade launchers positioned to give a 360 degree field of fire, with the launchers defaulting to firing at 30 feet from the tank. As said before, this is designed to prevent the tank from being mobbed by hostile infantry. Obviously, the IDS is not to be used if the DT is supported by friendly infantry.

Armor also varies on the Divine Tiger. The DT was designed to have almost all of its armor easily removed at a proper depot, thus allowing for easier maintenance and modularity. The standard Army package (and it should be noted that the Army makes the most use of these) makes the Divine Tiger weigh 88 tons, equipped with Chobham-Dorchester composite armor, depleted uranium mesh, et cetera. The DT comes equipped with a noble gas fire suppression system and blowout panels. Newer Divine Tigers are being built with automated active protection systems, and operations are underway to equip the GWO's current tanks with them. Certain tanks that are deemed more important (i.e. commanding tanks, specialized equipment tanks), or tanks about to go into an area with an even higher danger than usual, are also equipped with a complete ERA suite.

The DT's communications systems are designed to work with the GWO's BattleCOM network, displaying GPS, friendly/hostile forces (via the transmission and automated response to certain radio signals), live satellite uplink, remote vehicle slaver, and, of course, direct contact with the force's BattleCOM operators.

That's the DT in a nutshell.

[The Akasha Colony]

What is the largest rifled hunk of metal you could possibly move using modern methods. No railguns.

Why would it need to be rifled? And by modern methods, huge, since Dora in WWII could fire a ten-tonne projectile.

[Galla-]

There's also orbital defenses and such, which would presumably be why Galla's example didn't involve even approaching the planet.

Yes, but orbital defenses would lose some of the ability of planet based defenses. The atmosphere would protect against laser and particle weapons while the size of the planet and the ability to barry things would protect against missiles.

The thing is in such a universe it would be hard to take a system without taking the planet, think about it, missiles could have massive ranges, especially if they can turn their engines on and off. If you don't try and take the planet it could continuously shoot missiles at you, and because its a planet it would likely be able to keep producing missiles so you couldn't just "siege" the planet to force its surrender.

You do realise that a grain of sand moving at something like ~0.85c would have the equivalent energy of a large tactical nuclear weapon (something like 40 KT) when it hits the atmosphere.

Millions of grains of sand (or a Valkyrie rocket) hitting a planet would exterminate almost all life on it, if not immediately then within a couple years.

Best chance of survival for pre-Singularity societies is dispersal. Moderately sized colonies of ~1,000 people each would be sufficient to persist populations for hundreds of generations without inbreeding, and be a far, far harder target for any RKV-happy alien species floating around, waiting for you to fire up that Valkyrie drive.

[Hladgos]

What is the largest rifled hunk of metal you could possibly move using modern methods. No railguns.

Why would it need to be rifled? And by modern methods, huge, since Dora in WWII could fire a ten-tonne projectile.

Dosen't rifleing make a projectile more accurate or something?

[The Grand World Order]

Dosen't rifleing make a projectile more accurate or something?

It lets you use HESH rounds.

[Hladgos]

Dosen't rifleing make a projectile more accurate or something?

It lets you use HESH rounds.

I know nothing of weapons, other than what I make up.

[Sevvania]

Yes, but orbital defenses would lose some of the ability of planet based defenses. The atmosphere would protect against laser and particle weapons while the size of the planet and the ability to barry things would protect against missiles.

The thing is in such a universe it would be hard to take a system without taking the planet, think about it, missiles could have massive ranges, especially if they can turn their engines on and off. If you don't try and take the planet it could continuously shoot missiles at you, and because its a planet it would likely be able to keep producing missiles so you couldn't just "siege" the planet to force its surrender.

You do realise that a grain of sand moving at something like ~0.85c would have the equivalent energy of a large tactical nuclear weapon (something like 40 KT) when it hits the atmosphere.

Millions of grains of sand (or a Valkyrie rocket) hitting a planet would exterminate almost all life on it, if not immediately then within a couple years.

Wouldn't a grain of sand like, disintegrate if it was going that fast?

[Indeos]

Yes, but orbital defenses would lose some of the ability of planet based defenses. The atmosphere would protect against laser and particle weapons while the size of the planet and the ability to barry things would protect against missiles.

The thing is in such a universe it would be hard to take a system without taking the planet, think about it, missiles could have massive ranges, especially if they can turn their engines on and off. If you don't try and take the planet it could continuously shoot missiles at you, and because its a planet it would likely be able to keep producing missiles so you couldn't just "siege" the planet to force its surrender.

You do realise that a grain of sand moving at something like ~0.85c would have the equivalent energy of a large tactical nuclear weapon (something like 40 KT) when it hits the atmosphere.

Millions of grains of sand (or a Valkyrie rocket) hitting a planet would exterminate almost all life on it, if not immediately then within a couple years.

I was going to refer him to that, but you already said it. The whole idea of space warfare carried out via sand is kinda lulzy, tbh. I know it's legit, but still hilarious. IIRC Scott Westerfeld had something like that in a series he wrote.

Dosen't rifleing make a projectile more accurate or something?

It lets you use HESH rounds.

Aren't those basically obsolete? There's gotta be some reason only one NATO nation uses rifled guns.

[The Grand World Order]

Aren't those basically obsolete? There's gotta be some reason only one NATO nation uses rifled guns.

The British are really fond of HESH for some reason.

Rifled barrels don't agree too well with sabots, which are Pretty Damn Epic^TM.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Millions of grains of sand (or a Valkyrie rocket) hitting a planet would exterminate almost all life on it, if not immediately then within a couple years.

Assuming the planet has no atmosphere, sure. In that case there wouldn't be any life on it to begin with.

[Hladgos]

Aren't those basically obsolete? There's gotta be some reason only one NATO nation uses rifled guns.

I thought that if a bullet wasn't rifled, it would veer around a bit randomly, like muskets and their shots. Or does it just make the round go further?

[TheFall]

MBT=Morning Star

Uses a photon cannon that fires photon shells. Think of Star treks photon torpedos, but on extremely smaller scale.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

Personally my image of FT is massive warships that are almost impossible to kill. To take out a planet you just ask them to surrender or you grab a massive asteroid form the belt or the Oort cloud and send it on a collision course for the planet. If they somehow destroy or move it off of a collision course then grab another rinse and repeat. Eventually it would get through and the planet would die very messily.
Happily for me my vision of the future includes boarding actions...

If the planet is able to intercept something large and slow, you just move to something REALLY FUCKING BIG.

Bitches didn't expect me to turn a KBO into a solar-thermal rocket and drop it on them from 50 AU out.

You do realise that a grain of sand moving at something like ~0.85c would have the equivalent energy of a large tactical nuclear weapon (something like 40 KT) when it hits the atmosphere.

Millions of grains of sand (or a Valkyrie rocket) hitting a planet would exterminate almost all life on it, if not immediately then within a couple years.

Wouldn't a grain of sand like, disintegrate if it was going that fast?

Everything will disintegrate if it hits something going that fast.

Then, you have a cloud of plasma which is still traveling that fast.

[Radictistan]

Aren't those basically obsolete? There's gotta be some reason only one NATO nation uses rifled guns.

I thought that if a bullet wasn't rifled, it would veer around a bit randomly, like muskets and their shots. Or does it just make the round go further?

Modern tank ammunition is all fin-stabilized so rifling isn't necessary. Rifling actually shortens your absolute range, I think, because it reduces the muzzle velocity compared to a smoothbore weapon.

[Galla-]

You do realise that a grain of sand moving at something like ~0.85c would have the equivalent energy of a large tactical nuclear weapon (something like 40 KT) when it hits the atmosphere.

Millions of grains of sand (or a Valkyrie rocket) hitting a planet would exterminate almost all life on it, if not immediately then within a couple years.

Wouldn't a grain of sand like, disintegrate if it was going that fast?

Yes.

It wouldn't be fun.

[Hladgos]

I thought that if a bullet wasn't rifled, it would veer around a bit randomly, like muskets and their shots. Or does it just make the round go further?

Modern tank ammunition is all fin-stabilized so rifling isn't necessary. Rifling actually shortens your absolute range, I think, because it reduces the muzzle velocity compared to a smoothbore weapon.

Well then, what is the largest hunk of metal you can throw more than a mile with modern means.

[The Kievan People]

Would a relativistic projectile even disintegrate though? Does it even interact with the target long enough?

Maybe if you tried to shoot THROUGH a planet.