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Your Nation's Main Battle Tank [Part 2]

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Zeiffelheim
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Postby Zeiffelheim » Mon May 30, 2011 9:06 pm

Inutoland wrote:
Zeiffelheim wrote:Zeiffelheim's MBT is currently the T-98 "Leonidas" MPABP (Multi-Purpose Armored Battle Platform). It is armed with: 1x smooth-bore 100mm cannon capable of firing several types of rounds, including: Solid Tungsten slugs, Tungsten HESH shells, and Anti-infantry Shrapnel Burst Rounds (ASBRs). 2x Mk.7 .50 Caliber anti-infantry machine guns, mounted on opposite sides of the main turret and capable of rotating 360 degrees. 2x Type-19 Spearmaster missile launchers housed alongside the main cannon inside the top of the turret, armed with anti-aircraft, anti-personnel, and anti-armor warheads. 2x Type-84 Trebuchet heavy missile launchers mounted inside the main body of the tank, designed to act as artillery support for units in combat, and to destroy heavily fortified enemy installations. The T-98 is protected by 4.5" reactive Durasteel armor, and a Karlin EKFSN (Explosive Kinetic Force and Shrapnel Net) Point Defense System capable of detecting any incoming projectile with a mass of at least 3 kg, and defeating any incoming projectile with a velocity of up to 1200 m/s. The engine driving the T-98 is highly classified (The T-98's power system is its one drawback, as the T-98 requires a tremendous amount of fuel, and they are prone to engine overheat in the middle of combat when the tank is being heavily taxed. The tank itself utilizes a quad-tred system (with four sets of treds, two of equal length along each side) The T-98 is manned by a crew of 4, including a Commander, a Pilot, a Gunner, and a Systems Engineer. The crew positions are found in the rear half of the vehicle (the forward half being devoted to the engine and Trebuchet missiles). The pilot is seated on the left, just fore of the turret, the commander is seated to his immediate right. The Gunner is seated just beneath the main cannon, within the turret itself, and the systems engineer is seat to the rear, below the gunner (his station is bisected by the rearmost portion of the turret. There is an escape hatch to the left and above of the pilot, one to the right and above of the commander, and one to the immediate rear of the systems engineer (the gunner uses the systems engineer's escape hatch.) The gunner has control of the main cannon and the turret's swivel (the .50 cal machine guns rotate independent of the main turret). All other positions have full access to the other weapons (save the Trebuchet missiles, which can only be controlled by the commander or gunner). The pilot has full control of the tanks movements, but the commander has an override control, in the event that the pilot should be unable to continue functioning.

Potential upgrades to the T-98 include: A Mark 2 Railgun, to replace the main cannon. A Korchevski Fusion generator to replace the current engine and power system. A 2" upgrade to the exterior armor. and A Moradin-HESG (High Energy Shield Generator) to compliment the Karlin point defense system.

Currently under development is the XT-100 "Sabre", which may potentially replace the T-98 "Leonidas" as Zeiffelheim's MBT in the near future.

The T-98 replaced the Hadrian line of tanks, which included the T-32 LBT, T-34 MBT, and T-36 HBT.


The density of technobabble in this is quite intense.

-100mm smoothbore gun won't even dent most RL modern tanks, and is woefully undergunned by the standards of NS, unless you RP in the 1950s. If you're PMT, you want at least an ETC gun, of at least 140mm calibre.
-Housing your missile tubes inside the turret or inside the hull is a bad idea. Just use GLATGMs.
-Durasteel sounds like badly-named Wankonium
-No details on how this point defence net is supposed to work
-Why a 4-man crew? Use the space taken up by your Systems Engineer for something worthwhile, like more ammunition stowage.
-A railgun in MT is totally unworkable. You can't make a power source small enough until (high-end) PMT. I guess you're at least PMT, though, as you mention a shield generator upgrade.


Thanks, I don't really know too much about armor, 100mm is a lot beefier than a 5.56 or 7.62, so it seemed good to me. Obviously I was wrong. 180mm ETC should do the trick.
-As far as the GLATGMs go, the idea behind the turret mounted missiles was to be able to fire both the main cannon and two different missiles at once (allowing the tank to engage three enemies simultaneously). The GLAT is fired from the main barrel, so that kind of defeats the purpose (also the Type-19 missiles aren't really that big, more like rpg's on steroids than real bunker busters).
-Durasteel is just something I picked up somewhere, I wanted something better than regular steel, and that's what popped into my head.
-You mentioned how the techno-babble was intense, that's why there's not more about the PD system, I thought about adding it but then realized how many words that would take and I thought better of it.
-The Systems Engineer is mainly responsible to seeing to the engine, because it is so temperamental. Without him the tank wouldn't really be able to run during combat (or while going up a relatively steep hill). He also serves as a secondary gunner, operating the Type-19 missiles and the coaxial guns (if those guns can be considered coaxial). Still, with a fusion reactor upgrade, he could be obsolete. The responsibilities of the extra weapons can be passed on to the remaining crew.
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Zeiffelheim
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Postby Zeiffelheim » Mon May 30, 2011 9:11 pm

United States of PA wrote:
-100mm smoothbore gun won't even dent most RL modern tanks, and is woefully undergunned by the standards of NS, unless you RP in the 1950s. If you're PMT, you want at least an ETC gun, of at least 140mm calibre.


Yes it will, a Flak 18/36 from WW2 will dent a Abrams pretty well if used properly.


Thanks, but regardless, I think I'll go with the 180mm ETC, I'm just not that knowledgeable regarding tanks and I didn't really want to give my tank something ridiculous.
President: Brian Sjorfreid
Prime Minister: Michael Thomas
High Commander of the Armed Forces of the Republic: Grand Admiral John Reicher
Army:
Infantry Corps
Armored Corps
Artillery Corps
Airborne Infantry Corps (Rangers)
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Field Reconnaissance Force (Ghosts)
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Navy:
Republican Naval Force
Republican Marine Corps
Naval Special Warfare Division (Strikers)
Field Reconnaissance Force (Ghosts)
Department of Naval Intelligence

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Indeos
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Postby Indeos » Mon May 30, 2011 9:14 pm

Interstellar Britannia wrote:
New Zepuha wrote:Im going to settle this leman russ thing once and for all. If you have read Gunheads, which takes place from the point of view of a tank commander fighting the orks for a relic baneblade tank [Ends up fighting a Squiggoth with whats left of the company.]. Now, its actually quite spacious inside, it has to be, for two gunners, a commander a driver all have to fit in there. the gunners double as loaders while the tank commander usually aims the gun. Now when it comes down to it suspension isn't needed when you are fighting in mass wave charges and all that jazz. And infact the WW1 design is actually pretty damn sexy, and Titans aren't tanks, they are considered Dreadnoughts. Now why sponsons, i'll tell you, have you evered faced a crazed ork horde climbing all over tanks? or perhaps frenzied cultists armed with grenades trying to lob a grenade down your hatch, I thought so. Baneblades are about the size of a modern home or two depending on the variant, bristleing with gargantuan guns and a massive grenade launcher. Trust me, I have seen them in action. So *deep breath* any questions?


They fit five fellas into the Pkzf III, the Leman russ is none too impressive in that respect. The turret on the other hand is absurdly small, and as most nations learned in WW2, single man turrets are inefficient. The commander is supposed to command, not aim.

Suspension is especially needed in mass wave charges. The Leman russ is also an infantry support tank rather then a breakthrough tank.

Infantry support is integral to armour success in any situation.

And the Baneblade is small.


TBH the codex pretty much states that the LR was a cheap PoS that they could make tons of and modify easily, and that was really the advantage.
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Interstellar Britannia
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Postby Interstellar Britannia » Mon May 30, 2011 9:20 pm

Indeos wrote:
Interstellar Britannia wrote:
They fit five fellas into the Pkzf III, the Leman russ is none too impressive in that respect. The turret on the other hand is absurdly small, and as most nations learned in WW2, single man turrets are inefficient. The commander is supposed to command, not aim.

Suspension is especially needed in mass wave charges. The Leman russ is also an infantry support tank rather then a breakthrough tank.

Infantry support is integral to armour success in any situation.

And the Baneblade is small.


TBH the codex pretty much states that the LR was a cheap PoS that they could make tons of and modify easily, and that was really the advantage.


Except ingame, its the best tank available to anyone :/

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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Mon May 30, 2011 9:20 pm

Zeiffelheim wrote:I think I'll go with the 180mm ETC...


Zeiffelheim wrote:...and I didn't really want to give my tank something ridiculous.


Does not compute.

Seriously, you'd be better off with something 115-155mm.
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Indeos
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Postby Indeos » Mon May 30, 2011 9:21 pm

Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Indeos wrote:
TBH the codex pretty much states that the LR was a cheap PoS that they could make tons of and modify easily, and that was really the advantage.


Except ingame, its the best tank available to anyone :/


The Leman Russ isn't. Baneblade might be in tabletop but idk cause I haven't had a chance to play tabletop.
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Interstellar Britannia
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Postby Interstellar Britannia » Mon May 30, 2011 9:22 pm

Indeos wrote:
Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Except ingame, its the best tank available to anyone :/


The Leman Russ isn't. Baneblade might be in tabletop but idk cause I haven't had a chance to play tabletop.


In terms of cost to firepower without bringing in superheavies.

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Postby Tergnitz » Mon May 30, 2011 9:24 pm

Interstellar Britannia wrote:
New Zepuha wrote:Im going to settle this leman russ thing once and for all. If you have read Gunheads, which takes place from the point of view of a tank commander fighting the orks for a relic baneblade tank [Ends up fighting a Squiggoth with whats left of the company.]. Now, its actually quite spacious inside, it has to be, for two gunners, a commander a driver all have to fit in there. the gunners double as loaders while the tank commander usually aims the gun. Now when it comes down to it suspension isn't needed when you are fighting in mass wave charges and all that jazz. And infact the WW1 design is actually pretty damn sexy, and Titans aren't tanks, they are considered Dreadnoughts. Now why sponsons, i'll tell you, have you evered faced a crazed ork horde climbing all over tanks? or perhaps frenzied cultists armed with grenades trying to lob a grenade down your hatch, I thought so. Baneblades are about the size of a modern home or two depending on the variant, bristleing with gargantuan guns and a massive grenade launcher. Trust me, I have seen them in action. So *deep breath* any questions?


They fit five fellas into the Pkzf III, the Leman russ is none too impressive in that respect. The turret on the other hand is absurdly small, and as most nations learned in WW2, single man turrets are inefficient. The commander is supposed to command, not aim.

Suspension is especially needed in mass wave charges. The Leman russ is also an infantry support tank rather then a breakthrough tank.

Does the IG have a tank that isn't an infantry support tank?

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Interstellar Britannia
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Postby Interstellar Britannia » Mon May 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Tergnitz wrote:
Interstellar Britannia wrote:
They fit five fellas into the Pkzf III, the Leman russ is none too impressive in that respect. The turret on the other hand is absurdly small, and as most nations learned in WW2, single man turrets are inefficient. The commander is supposed to command, not aim.

Suspension is especially needed in mass wave charges. The Leman russ is also an infantry support tank rather then a breakthrough tank.

Does the IG have a tank that isn't an infantry support tank?


Armageddon Steel Legion and that Lemon Russ variant I can't be bothered to name that could fire on the move.

And plenty of other stuff from Imperial Armoury books if those count.

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Postby Indeos » Mon May 30, 2011 9:28 pm

Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Indeos wrote:
The Leman Russ isn't. Baneblade might be in tabletop but idk cause I haven't had a chance to play tabletop.


In terms of cost to firepower without bringing in superheavies.


Well, maybe the codex info I'm reading is wrong. It just says that it's the MBT pattern because it was relatively cheap, hardy, and efficient. And easy to modify.
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Postby The Soviet Technocracy » Mon May 30, 2011 9:30 pm

Tergnitz wrote:
Interstellar Britannia wrote:
They fit five fellas into the Pkzf III, the Leman russ is none too impressive in that respect. The turret on the other hand is absurdly small, and as most nations learned in WW2, single man turrets are inefficient. The commander is supposed to command, not aim.

Suspension is especially needed in mass wave charges. The Leman russ is also an infantry support tank rather then a breakthrough tank.

Does the IG have a tank that isn't an infantry support tank?


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Indeos
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Postby Indeos » Mon May 30, 2011 9:32 pm

Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Tergnitz wrote:Does the IG have a tank that isn't an infantry support tank?


Armageddon Steel Legion and that Lemon Russ variant I can't be bothered to name that could fire on the move.

And plenty of other stuff from Imperial Armoury books if those count.


The Exterminator and Punisher variants were both basically anti Tyranid rush tanks, if that counts for anything.
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Postby The Soviet Technocracy » Mon May 30, 2011 9:33 pm

Indeos wrote:
Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Armageddon Steel Legion and that Lemon Russ variant I can't be bothered to name that could fire on the move.

And plenty of other stuff from Imperial Armoury books if those count.


The Exterminator and Punisher variants were both basically anti Tyranid rush tanks, if that counts for anything.


i was going to say "i thought the exterminator was a stug" then i realised i was thinking of the executioner
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Tergnitz
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Postby Tergnitz » Mon May 30, 2011 9:34 pm

Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Tergnitz wrote:Does the IG have a tank that isn't an infantry support tank?


Armageddon Steel Legion and that Lemon Russ variant I can't be bothered to name that could fire on the move.

And plenty of other stuff from Imperial Armoury books if those count.

I guess the LR Executioner...or was it Exterminator, the one with the massive plasma cannon, could count as that.

But the majority of IG tanks, even from Imperial Armour books have infantry support as their primary or secondary role.

The Soviet Technocracy wrote:
Tergnitz wrote:Does the IG have a tank that isn't an infantry support tank?


Laser destroyer

Touché

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The Anglo-Saxon Empire
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Postby The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Mon May 30, 2011 9:37 pm

Tergnitz wrote:
Interstellar Britannia wrote:
Armageddon Steel Legion and that Lemon Russ variant I can't be bothered to name that could fire on the move.

And plenty of other stuff from Imperial Armoury books if those count.

I guess the LR Executioner...or was it Exterminator, the one with the massive plasma cannon, could count as that.

But the majority of IG tanks, even from Imperial Armour books have infantry support as their primary or secondary role.

Well the IG can have lots of infantry or tanks, so is it any real surprise?
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Zeiffelheim
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Postby Zeiffelheim » Mon May 30, 2011 9:46 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
Zeiffelheim wrote:I think I'll go with the 180mm ETC...


Zeiffelheim wrote:...and I didn't really want to give my tank something ridiculous.


Does not compute.

Seriously, you'd be better off with something 115-155mm.


Like I said, I don't know too much about tanks...would a 140mm work? That was suggested earlier.
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The Anglo-Saxon Empire
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Postby The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Mon May 30, 2011 9:47 pm

Zeiffelheim wrote:
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:


Does not compute.

Seriously, you'd be better off with something 115-155mm.


Like I said, I don't know too much about tanks...would a 140mm work? That was suggested earlier.

Lots of people in NS use 140mm.
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Postby Tergnitz » Mon May 30, 2011 9:48 pm

The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:
Tergnitz wrote:I guess the LR Executioner...or was it Exterminator, the one with the massive plasma cannon, could count as that.

But the majority of IG tanks, even from Imperial Armour books have infantry support as their primary or secondary role.

Well the IG can have lots of infantry or tanks, so is it any real surprise?

No, but the original question was about whether the IG had anything equivalent to an Earth or modern MBT instead of just tanks devoted to infantry support.

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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Mon May 30, 2011 10:31 pm

Zeiffelheim wrote:
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:


Does not compute.

Seriously, you'd be better off with something 115-155mm.


Like I said, I don't know too much about tanks...would a 140mm work? That was suggested earlier.


Yeah, 140mm is pretty much the standard on NS. I use 135mm, but I'm odd.
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Postby Yohannes » Mon May 30, 2011 10:34 pm

125mm is still enough, pending quality of the gun. The abilities of 140mm gun are varied, in its own right.. in a sense that there are some 140mm that are qualitatively much better than the others. 125mm is enough for NS, iirc.

And 140mm is not the standard.. i have seen a lot of tanks out there, made by reputable NS roleplayers, which use 125mm or lower gun calibre, rather than 140mm.
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Postby The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Mon May 30, 2011 10:37 pm

Yohannes wrote:125mm is still enough, pending quality of the gun. The abilities of 140mm gun are varied, in its own right.. in a sense that there are some 140mm that are qualitatively much better than the others. 125mm is enough for NS, iirc.

And 140mm is not the standard.. i have seen a lot of tanks out there, made by reputable NS roleplayers, which use 125mm or lower gun calibre, rather than 140mm.

Main calibers in NS in order are probably
125mm
120mm
140mm

Mostly because stupid people believe that the extra 5mm offer a major advantage, when in reality an extra 5mm won't matter much unless you are talking autocannon size. Really it depends on how your tanks are gonna fight, mine use 140mm since I mostly use HEAT for AP work and thus need the added diameter, if you are using KE, you could get away with 120mm easy, I think someone in NSD even made a 103mm gun tank to take on NS tanks.
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Mon May 30, 2011 10:42 pm

Yohannes wrote:125mm is still enough, pending quality of the gun. The abilities of 140mm gun are varied, in its own right.. in a sense that there are some 140mm that are qualitatively much better than the others. 125mm is enough for NS, iirc.

And 140mm is not the standard.. i have seen a lot of tanks out there, made by reputable NS roleplayers, which use 125mm or lower gun calibre, rather than 140mm.


I'm not suggesting all 140mm guns are identical, or that something smaller wouldn't be suitable. The advantage with a larger calibre is you'll get higher HEAT penetration without needing to resort to exotic metals for the lining.
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Postby Munathanura » Mon May 30, 2011 10:43 pm

The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:
Yohannes wrote:125mm is still enough, pending quality of the gun. The abilities of 140mm gun are varied, in its own right.. in a sense that there are some 140mm that are qualitatively much better than the others. 125mm is enough for NS, iirc.

And 140mm is not the standard.. i have seen a lot of tanks out there, made by reputable NS roleplayers, which use 125mm or lower gun calibre, rather than 140mm.

Main calibers in NS in order are probably
125mm
120mm
140mm

Mostly because stupid people believe that the extra 5mm offer a major advantage, when in reality an extra 5mm won't matter much unless you are talking autocannon size. Really it depends on how your tanks are gonna fight, mine use 140mm since I mostly use HEAT for AP work and thus need the added diameter, if you are using KE, you could get away with 120mm easy, I think someone in NSD even made a 103mm gun tank to take on NS tanks.


To add to ASE's post, there are also plenty of things that you can do to improve the effectiveness of a 120mm gun, such as the use of a munition similar to the XM1111 MRM-KE, which is basically a guided rocket with a KE penetrator in the place of a warhead. It can also be fire beyond visual range and will acquire the target on its own.
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The Anglo-Saxon Empire
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Postby The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Mon May 30, 2011 10:45 pm

Munathanura wrote:
The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:Main calibers in NS in order are probably
125mm
120mm
140mm

Mostly because stupid people believe that the extra 5mm offer a major advantage, when in reality an extra 5mm won't matter much unless you are talking autocannon size. Really it depends on how your tanks are gonna fight, mine use 140mm since I mostly use HEAT for AP work and thus need the added diameter, if you are using KE, you could get away with 120mm easy, I think someone in NSD even made a 103mm gun tank to take on NS tanks.


To add to ASE's post, there are also plenty of things that you can do to improve the effectiveness of a 120mm gun, such as the use of a munition similar to the XM1111 MRM-KE, which is basically a guided rocket with a KE penetrator in the place of a warhead. It can also be fire beyond visual range and will acquire the target on its own.

Problem I have with KE is that effectiveness diminishes as velocity diminishes, unlike HEAT, which can punch through the same amount of armour whether traveling 1,200 m/s, or 120 m/s.
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Yohannes
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Founded: Mar 17, 2010
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Postby Yohannes » Mon May 30, 2011 10:46 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
Yohannes wrote:125mm is still enough, pending quality of the gun. The abilities of 140mm gun are varied, in its own right.. in a sense that there are some 140mm that are qualitatively much better than the others. 125mm is enough for NS, iirc.

And 140mm is not the standard.. i have seen a lot of tanks out there, made by reputable NS roleplayers, which use 125mm or lower gun calibre, rather than 140mm.


I'm not suggesting all 140mm guns are identical, or that something smaller wouldn't be suitable. The advantage with a larger calibre is you'll get higher HEAT penetration without needing to resort to exotic metals for the lining.


Yeah, don't worry mate, i am not suggesting that. I am merely saying that 140mm is not the end all be all of NS-grade tank. =)
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