NS Military Realism Consultation Thread

[The Corparation]

I originally wrote my specs in Imperial as well, but switched to metric a few years ago when I began doing basic physics and design equations on my equipment. Now, I'm almost better at using metric measurements than imperial, at least for length, volume, and of course energy.

In 1790, during the French Revolution, the National Assembly of France requested the French Academy of Sciences to “deduce an invariable standard for all the measures and all the weights.” Napoleon once banned its use. The standardized structure and decimal features of the metric system made it well suited for scientific and engineering work. Originally this system included changing the week from a seven day week to a ten day week but this did not last as the people couldn't handle working nine days in a row then only having one day off for more then a month.

Pah, any wuss can count to ten, but only big headed American minds can memorize that there are three inches to a foot, 12 feet to a mile, and keep track of two units both called ounces.

[DASHES]

If you are asking why the Wasp uses the UH-1N, it's because when the ship was designed, the UH-1N would have been the mainstay of the US Navy's force. Nothing to do with which helicopter is the best.

I also can't see why you would choose the H variant over the N where the N has more lifting power (although none of the UH's were any good at lifting shit) and two engines in case one breaks. Payload and reliability are the factors most crucial to a utility helicopter. If you must avoid the twin-huey for whatever reason, go with the UH-1J which has been nicely overhauled already. Truth be told the only way you could acquire a UH-1H these days would be to get an aircraft that's dangerously close to it's flying limit or to get the 1H produced again in favour of far more modern, capable, reliable and just all-round better UH's.

VR's right. The reason why the Wasp-class uses UH-1N is because the USMC hasn't completed upgrading all of its existing stockpiles to the UH-1Y. Not because they're better. If you're buying new helos, you'll end up with the UH-1Y, no other model is in production. Unless you're going to pay extra to get the factories converted to produce an obsolete helicopter. There isn't really a reason to pick the UH-1H unless the 300 kg of extra weight in the UH-1N is really that important. Which it probably isn't.

The twin-engine variants are more reliable, with greater payload capacity. They have younger airframes, with fewer flight hours on them. They're also more fuel-efficient and have better avionics. The old UH-1 single-engine variants can't even be called a medium helicopter these days, and the twin-engine ones just barely can.

The one thing I love about NS is its storefronts. United Earthling's storefront sells UH-1Y's for a very low price, so I'll go ahead and upgrade.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

In 1790, during the French Revolution, the National Assembly of France requested the French Academy of Sciences to “deduce an invariable standard for all the measures and all the weights.” Napoleon once banned its use. The standardized structure and decimal features of the metric system made it well suited for scientific and engineering work. Originally this system included changing the week from a seven day week to a ten day week but this did not last as the people couldn't handle working nine days in a row then only having one day off for more then a month.

Pah, any wuss can count to ten, but only big headed American minds can memorize that there are three inches to a foot, 12 feet to a mile, and keep track of two units both called ounces.

I honestly do not know any of the volumetric Imperial measurements despite living in the US. I know how much a gallon is and a liter is, and the former is only because milk comes from gallon containers, and water comes from liter sized bottles. I have absolutely no clue how many ounces are in a gallon. For all I know an ounce could be bigger than a gallon.

[The UK in Exile]

Pah, any wuss can count to ten, but only big headed American minds can memorize that there are three inches to a foot, 12 feet to a mile, and keep track of two units both called ounces.

I honestly do not know any of the volumetric Imperial measurements despite living in the US. I know how much a gallon is and a liter is, and the former is only because milk comes from gallon containers, and water comes from liter sized bottles. I have absolutely no clue how many ounces are in a gallon. For all I know an ounce could be bigger than a gallon.

What's a gill... Is that metric?

[Cyprum Xecuii]

Pah, any wuss can count to ten, but only big headed American minds can memorize that there are three inches to a foot, 12 feet to a mile, and keep track of two units both called ounces.

I honestly do not know any of the volumetric Imperial measurements despite living in the US. I know how much a gallon is and a liter is, and the former is only because milk comes from gallon containers, and water comes from liter sized bottles. I have absolutely no clue how many ounces are in a gallon. For all I know an ounce could be bigger than a gallon.

OOC: my world history teacher tells me that we made the imperial system to be "special"...then he said we were just stupid.

[Cyprum Xecuii]

I honestly do not know any of the volumetric Imperial measurements despite living in the US. I know how much a gallon is and a liter is, and the former is only because milk comes from gallon containers, and water comes from liter sized bottles. I have absolutely no clue how many ounces are in a gallon. For all I know an ounce could be bigger than a gallon.

What's a gill... Is that metric?

it's imperial, but no longer used...it's a quarter of a pint.

[Spirit of Hope]

Imperial existed before metric, and stays around through shear inertia in the United States. (fun fact Metric is the official system in the US, just nobody uses it.) I'm slowly getting more used to metric through physics forcing me to use it.

[The Akasha Colony]

Most Americans are taught metric in basic science classes. But most never really get the mental conversions or ideas down, and promptly forget them after graduation. I would've forgotten them too were it not for nations-related activity, which forces me to use it for most basic calculations. Having a basic grasp of it is essential for even semi-hard sci-fi, since most people have a hard time really envisioning how vast space is, or how much energy stars and other interstellar phenomena emit. Hell, I have a hard time with that too unless it can be translated into something I know. That's why I normally translate weapon yields (which I normally put in watts for continuous weapons, or joules for single-fire weapons) into tons of TNT even though it's not metric. It's easier to put into scale.

[Cyprum Xecuii]

Imperial existed before metric, and stays around through shear inertia in the United States. (fun fact Metric is the official system in the US, just nobody uses it.) I'm slowly getting more used to metric through physics forcing me to use it.

oh? then my teacher must be wrong about this...then again he doesn't like how the united states was created in general...if that's the case, why would everyone else use the metric system instead? did everyone have to use the imperial system beforehand?

EDIT: wait a minute...the metric system was brought first being derived from the french...1790s...whatever...

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

Imperial existed before metric, and stays around through shear inertia in the United States. (fun fact Metric is the official system in the US, just nobody uses it.) I'm slowly getting more used to metric through physics forcing me to use it.

oh? then my teacher must be wrong about this...then again he doesn't like how the united states was created in general...if that's the case, why would everyone else use the metric system instead? did everyone have to use the imperial system beforehand?

EDIT: wait a minute...the metric system was brought first being derived from the french...1790s...whatever...

Imperial System is British, and the entire empire used it.

[The Akasha Colony]

'The Imperial System' is really just one of many systems that existed before the world basically split into the Metric and British Imperial systems. Prior to the invention of metric, and its use in France, France had its own imperial system, which was not the same as the British. This is why Napoleon is always considered 'short.' He was 5' 2" in the French system, but French inches were larger than English ones, so he was actually of above-average height for the time. He was also commonly depicted with his large Imperial guardsmen, who were themselves selected for their size.

Following the rise of the metric system it slowly overtook and replaced most other systems in smaller and more disparate countries for its ease of use. The exceptions were the British Empire and the US, both of which were large enough to form their own 'ecosystem' economically that justified keeping it around. When the British Empire broke up, most of its now-independent nations switched to metric for ease of use and commonality, although the UK took a long time to switch. The US public hasn't switched to metric, but a lot of companies, and all scientists, already have. Particularly those doing business overseas.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

After far longer than I would have liked, I've come up with this

Dropship


Length: 30.5m
Wingspan: 25m
Hight: 10m (1.75m w/landing gear deployed)
Crew: 2-3 (two pilots, optional crew chief)
Capacity: 30 (seated), 65 (floor loaded), up to 30,000lbs internally, or 35,000lbs externally.
Rotor: 2) ducted coaxial fans
Empty weight: 19,500lbs (8,845kg)
Max takeoff weight: 67,000lbs (30,390.6kg)
Power plant: 2) hybrid electric turboshaft, generating 5,000kw each
Max speed: 300kn (555.6km/h) at sea level. 330kn (611km/h) at 15,750ft
Cruising speed: 250kn (463km/h)
Range: 1,318nmi (2,441km)
Combat range: 585nmi (1,083.4km)
Ferry range: 2,910nmi (5,389.3km) w/internal fuel bladders.
Service ceiling: 25,000ft (7,620m)
Armament: 1) nose mounted 9.5x40mm minigun, 4) external hard points

better?

[Spirit of Hope]

After far longer than I would have liked, I've come up with this

Dropship


Length: 30.5m
Wingspan: 25m
Hight: 10m (1.75m w/landing gear deployed)
Crew: 2-3 (two pilots, optional crew chief)
Capacity: 30 (seated), 65 (floor loaded), up to 30,000lbs internally, or 35,000lbs externally.
Rotor: 2) ducted coaxial fans
Empty weight: 19,500lbs (8,845kg)
Max takeoff weight: 67,000lbs (30,390.6kg)
Power plant: 2) hybrid electric turboshaft, generating 5,000kw each
Max speed: 300kn (555.6km/h) at sea level. 330kn (611km/h) at 15,750ft
Cruising speed: 250kn (463km/h)
Range: 1,318nmi (2,441km)
Combat range: 585nmi (1,083.4km)
Ferry range: 2,910nmi (5,389.3km) w/internal fuel bladders.
Service ceiling: 25,000ft (7,620m)
Armament: 1) nose mounted 9.5x40mm minigun, 4) external hard points

better?

I like that a lot. First I would say downgrade the mini gun nose turret, thats just overkill, also maybe drop the hard points. Last suggestion, some way to mount a general purpose machine gun on the ramp of the transport. All of that is suggestions, so real free to ignore what I just said if you real like it.

[The Corparation]

After far longer than I would have liked, I've come up with this

Dropship


Length: 30.5m
Wingspan: 25m
Hight: 10m (1.75m w/landing gear deployed)
Crew: 2-3 (two pilots, optional crew chief)
Capacity: 30 (seated), 65 (floor loaded), up to 30,000lbs internally, or 35,000lbs externally.
Rotor: 2) ducted coaxial fans
Empty weight: 19,500lbs (8,845kg)
Max takeoff weight: 67,000lbs (30,390.6kg)
Power plant: 2) hybrid electric turboshaft, generating 5,000kw each
Max speed: 300kn (555.6km/h) at sea level. 330kn (611km/h) at 15,750ft
Cruising speed: 250kn (463km/h)
Range: 1,318nmi (2,441km)
Combat range: 585nmi (1,083.4km)
Ferry range: 2,910nmi (5,389.3km) w/internal fuel bladders.
Service ceiling: 25,000ft (7,620m)
Armament: 1) nose mounted 9.5x40mm minigun, 4) external hard points

better?

I like that a lot. First I would say downgrade the mini gun nose turret, thats just overkill, also maybe drop the hard points. Last suggestion, some way to mount a general purpose machine gun on the ramp of the transport. All of that is suggestions, so real free to ignore what I just said if you real like it.

Pretty much this, transports shouldn't really be carrying a lot of weapons systems, that's what escort craft are for. This is a tilt fan you said earlier? I'd suggets looking at some of the proposed armed BA 609 derivatives and such for an something to accompany it if its headed into a combat zone.

[The Akasha Colony]

Not much else to say aside from to agree with those above. You could probably do with a standard machine gun up front, rather than a minigun. And a ramp-gun would be more useful for covering landings and extractions. The hardpoints may or may not be useful, depending on role. If you keep them though, I'd say at least two should be wet hardpoints so you can take fuel from them and extend range, if not on all of them.

[DASHES]

'The Imperial System' is really just one of many systems that existed before the world basically split into the Metric and British Imperial systems. Prior to the invention of metric, and its use in France, France had its own imperial system, which was not the same as the British. This is why Napoleon is always considered 'short.' He was 5' 2" in the French system, but French inches were larger than English ones, so he was actually of above-average height for the time. He was also commonly depicted with his large Imperial guardsmen, who were themselves selected for their size.

Following the rise of the metric system it slowly overtook and replaced most other systems in smaller and more disparate countries for its ease of use. The exceptions were the British Empire and the US, both of which were large enough to form their own 'ecosystem' economically that justified keeping it around. When the British Empire broke up, most of its now-independent nations switched to metric for ease of use and commonality, although the UK took a long time to switch. The US public hasn't switched to metric, but a lot of companies, and all scientists, already have. Particularly those doing business overseas.

Thanks enough. Lets get back on topic.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

In no particular order:
1) jeez, you all make it sound as though I'm using a GAU-8
2) I'm sorry, I neglected to add the, /gunship, bit to the title, hense the minigun and hard points. It's mean to fill a role similar to Halo's pelican, or a Mil Mi-24 (although the Mi-24 is more of a gunship that conveniently carries troops)
3) A fold down, pintle mounted GPMG shall be added
4) if I can have it my way, all four hard points will be able to accept everything from external fuel tanks to gun pods.

[The Corparation]

In no particular order:
1) jeez, you all make it sound as though I'm using a GAU-8
2) I'm sorry, I neglected to add the, /gunship, bit to the title, hense the minigun and hard points. It's mean to fill a role similar to Halo's pelican, or a Mil Mi-24 (although the Mi-24 is more of a gunship that conveniently carries troops)
3) A fold down, pintle mounted GPMG shall be added
4) if I can have it my way, all four hard points will be able to accept everything from external fuel tanks to gun pods.

The thing is though, the Pelican and Mi-24 don't carry the kind of troop your carrying. Either have a transport or a dedicated gunship. Mixing the two isn't effective.

[Transnapastain]

In no particular order:
1) jeez, you all make it sound as though I'm using a GAU-8
2) I'm sorry, I neglected to add the, /gunship, bit to the title, hense the minigun and hard points. It's mean to fill a role similar to Halo's pelican, or a Mil Mi-24 (although the Mi-24 is more of a gunship that conveniently carries troops)
3) A fold down, pintle mounted GPMG shall be added
4) if I can have it my way, all four hard points will be able to accept everything from external fuel tanks to gun pods.

I think the Mi-24 is a fluke of design You should, in my opinion, design your transports, to transport, and your gunships, to gun....ship?


What I mean, is, I don't think that making everything multi-role is the best thing to do. Make this thing a dropship, it drops troops, transports them where they need to go. Has minimal weapons to protect them as they dismount, or suppress enemy fire in an LZ during extraction.

Then, and you can even use the same air frame if desired, make a gunship, with hard points, that carries more weapons. These vehicles should work in tandem, as I think you'll see better results from two vehicles, fulfilling their roles, than one vehicle, trying to do both.

[The Corparation]

Then, and you can even use the same air frame if desired, make a gunship, with hard points, that carries more weapons. These vehicles should work in tandem, as I think you'll see better results from two vehicles, fulfilling their roles, than one vehicle, trying to do both.

Unless he's making a C-130 like gunshipt, 90 feet long is a bit big for a gunship. Also wouldn't have the speed or maneuverability of a smaller craft.

[Transnapastain]

Then, and you can even use the same air frame if desired, make a gunship, with hard points, that carries more weapons. These vehicles should work in tandem, as I think you'll see better results from two vehicles, fulfilling their roles, than one vehicle, trying to do both.

Unless he's making a C-130 like gunshipt, 90 feet long is a bit big for a gunship. Also wouldn't have the speed or maneuverability of a smaller craft.

Yeah, thats a good point, I didn't really, honestly, read everything he said. I was moreover commenting on the same thing you touched on, that dedicated designs are going to get the job done a lot better than multirole monstrosities.

[The Akasha Colony]

Which isn't necessarily to say that you can't roll all of those... roles... into one package. But it's not as efficient financially or tactically to put all of your eggs in one basket. If that tilt-rotor is going to be carrying all of those things at once (gunship armament, infantry, and vehicles), it's going to be pretty big, pretty heavy, and reasonably expensive. That means you can't have as many for the same budget, yet enemies can down it more easily than a smaller, faster, and more agile craft.

At the same time, if it'll only be doing a few of those things at once (carrying equipment OR shooting), then all of the other features are being wasted. If you're carrying troops, the guns and hardpoints are deadweight you're paying the fuel cost for to fly around. If you're shooting things, then the troop bay is deadweight all the same. Better, IMO, to split the roles, and have a gunship escort your transport, so that if one goes down, the other's still there, and if you don't need one, you can just send the other for a lower operating cost.

[Spirit of Hope]

1) jeez, you all make it sound as though I'm using a GAU-8

Modern rotary cannons are really only useful for high speed aircraft fighting, otherwise they just waste ammo, are big, expensive and heavy and do very little better than a similar caliber machine-gun.

2) I'm sorry, I neglected to add the, /gunship, bit to the title, hense the minigun and hard points. It's mean to fill a role similar to Halo's pelican, or a Mil Mi-24 (although the Mi-24 is more of a gunship that conveniently carries troops)

The thing is, as has been stated, mixing the roll of gunship and troop transport just doesn't go well. Look at the Apache attack helicopter and the Black Hawk. Apache is thiner and more agile, better armed and all around more dangerous. The Black Hawk can act as an attack helicopter, but really is a transport helicopter being bigger, slower yet also more powerful and versatile.

3) A fold down, pintle mounted GPMG shall be added

Yay!!!

4) if I can have it my way, all four hard points will be able to accept everything from external fuel tanks to gun pods.

That works, I would still say get rid of them, but the extra fuel might be useful in some circumstances.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Point taken, remove two hard points, and replace the minigun with a standard MG. I'll also begin work on my standard and UCAV gunships.

On a somewhat separate note, how nesicarry is an AC-130-esque gunship?

Since my gunships won't likely need to land in the middle of dusty assed nowhere, do you think I could use gimbal mounted turbofans?

[Foguk]

What do we think of small-to-medium sized isolationist nation who maintains a large nuclear arsenal as a deterrent to other nations?

Does this sound somewhat like Israel minus the isolationist?