NS Military Realism Consultation Thread

[Allanea]

Aren't there some jamming suites for tanks intended to screw with ATGMs?

Yes, Russian shtora system.

Well there you go. That qualifies as a tank EW suite, no?

[Crookfur]

Yes, Russian shtora system.

Well there you go. That qualifies as a tank EW suite, no?

There are also the ECM systems deployed on pretty much every bit of british Armour that has been to iraq or afghanistan. Admitedly they are for messing up IED command signals.

[The Kievan People]

If you can land APCs you can land LCACs or LCUs.

Ok, now that I have that out of the way, would it be wise to build in a small electronic warfare suite into my MBT?

Be more specific please.

What threats do you want to counter? If we try to list every conceivable EW system that has or could be strapped to a AFV we will be here a very long time.

[Bafuria]

http://i50.tinypic.com/5x1o3r.png

BMG-3 "Longbow"

Type: IRBM
Introduced: 1992
Range: 4500 km
Throw weight: 600 Kg
Length: 12.5 m
Width: 1.2 m
Weight: 10,400 Kg
Warhead: 1x 60 Kt atomic bomb
Guidance: Inertial
CEP: 90 m
Engine: Two-stage, solid-fuel engine.
Launch platform: Silo
Flyaway cost: $8,000,000

It's designed for a small nuclear power with a limited budget and big, scary neighbors. Countries such as Israel, Pakistan or Bafuria in SMS.

[United Districts of 1]

Ok, now that I have that out of the way, would it be wise to build in a small electronic warfare suite into my MBT?

Be more specific please.

What threats do you want to counter? If we try to list every conceivable EW system that has or could be strapped to a AFV we will be here a very long time.

Mainly to scramble targeting systems and help counter-act jammers.

Stats

Weight: 62.3 tonnes (61.3 long tons; 68.7 short tons)
Length: 9.97 m (393 in) (gun forward)
Width: 3.75 m (148 in)
Height: 3.0 m (120 in)
Crew: 4
Armour: 4th generation composite; including high-hardness steel, tungsten and plastic filler with ceramic component.
Main
armament: 1 x 120 mm Vael Heavy Industries smoothbore gun
62 rounds
Secondary
armament: 2 x 7.62 mm MG36A2
5,000 rounds
Engine: MTU MB 873 Ka-501 liquid-cooled V-12 Twin-turbo diesel engine
1,500 PS (1,479 hp, 1,103 kW) at 2,600 rpm
Power/weight: 24.1 PS/t (17.7 kW/t)
Transmission: Renk HSWL 354
Suspension: Torsion-bar suspension
Fuel capacity: 1,150 liters(317 gallons)
Operational
range: 550 km (340 mi) (internal fuel)
Speed: 68 km/h (45 mph)

[The Kievan People]

What kind of targeting systems?

[United Districts of 1]

What kind of targeting systems?

EMES 15 dual magnification stabilised primary sight that feeds telemetry data and live recording to command. Compiled telemetry and combat data will be compiled real time and used to correct targeting parameters.

[The Kievan People]

No, the ones you want to jam.

[Evil Xyborgs]

wat

What kind of targeting systems?

EMES 15 dual magnification stabilised primary sight that feeds telemetry data and live recording to command. Compiled telemetry and combat data will be compiled real time and used to correct targeting parameters.

wat

[United Districts of 1]

No, the ones you want to jam.

Oh.... durr
An E-warfare suite wont phase thermal or laser guiding would it? What type of systems would be vulnerable to a localized attack?

[The Kievan People]

Forget aircraft electronic warfare, it has no real relevance here.

A basic tank self protection system would be something like this:
- Laser Warning Receiver
- Radar Warning Receiver
- VIS/IR Smoke Grenades
- Chaff Grenades

When either of the warning receivers detects a laser designator, beamrider, rangefinder or radar emitter it will automatically slew the turret towards the threat and either fire smoke/chaff automatically or cue the crew to fire them manually. The the smoke/chaff will hopefully break the lock and allow the tank to drive to safety.

This isn't an ideal system though. Expendables run out, smoke prevents the tank from responding, beam riders and MMW radars are both difficult to detect and the system does nothing against missiles which do emit. To extend the system's capabilities you'll need a way to detect all kinds of missiles, there three options:
- UV: Reliable, long range, but only detects missiles during their boost phase and cannot detect many newer ATGM's at all.
- IR: Can detect all forms of incoming projectiles. Unreliable and prone to false alarms though, not very effective against subsonic unpowered targets like mortar shells.
- Radar: Can detect all kinds of projectiles, reliable, provides highly accurate information on trajectory and time to hit. As an active emitter it can compromise the vehicle, susceptible to jamming.

IRL Radar is the overwhelmingly preferred sensor.

Integrate that to the previously mentioned systems and you have a soft-kill protection system that is relatively effective against the full range of guided munitions. The effectiveness of expendables can be improved by mounting them on directional launchers, much more efficient the the more common fixed tubes. Replace the expendables with grenades and you have a hard kill active protection system.

There is more that can be done with soft-kill systems though. One system that has been mentioned in this thread is Shtora, which is similar to the basic system I described (minus radar warning receiver/chaff) but includes two infrared lamps that can jam SACLOS guided missiles. This is a somewhat dated method though, newer SACLOS missiles include anti-jam features. These days the preferred method is to use a low power laser pointed towards the missiles point of origin to blind the launcher, causing it to lose track of the target and missile it is guiding. For dealing with SACLOS and MCLOS missiles this is a much more efficient method than popping smoke.

MMW and Imaging Infrared/Electro-optical seekers are the most difficult to defeat passively. Jamming them is possible but impractical; the best countermeasures are signature reduction, hard kill APS and expendables. Beamriders are an intermediate case, dazzling the launcher with a laser is generally effective but unlike most other laser based systems it is difficult to accurately locate them from the laser signal alone.

So to recap:
- Smoke and chaff are wonderful and you can never have enough. They are the bread and butter of a ground vehicles ECM
- Laser detectors are almost a necessity, radar detectors are optional (they are very rare on ground vehicles IRL)
- Radar is good
- Laser dazzlers are handy
- APS systems are not really ECM but they are the single best defensive countermeasure you can get

Edit: I almost forgot but it is possible to jam laser range finders too. A Ukrainian company makes such a system as an add on for the Ukrainian version of Shtora (Varta). It's an interesting and potentially useful system but savvy operators can potentially counter it by ranging near the target rather than on it. Many modern LRF's already include anti-jam features.

[The Seven Realms]

Is it possible to use microwaves to destroy missiles?

[Evil Xyborgs]

Yes. Simply launch it in the direction of the missile. For larger missiles I would recommend a dishwasher.

[The Seven Realms]

Yes. Simply launch it in the direction of the missile. For larger missiles I would recommend a dishwasher.

...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....

[Transnapastain]

Yes. Simply launch it in the direction of the missile. For larger missiles I would recommend a dishwasher.

...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....

What about refrigerators and color TV's?

[The Seven Realms]

...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....

What about refrigerators and color TV's?

...I could use the fridge to protect my soldiers from nukes...

[Bafuria]

...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....

What about refrigerators and color TV's?

Screw those, use millionare faggots.

[Transnapastain]

What about refrigerators and color TV's?

Screw those, use millionare faggots.

Oh, the 80's, when, apparently, you could get away with saying such things in media. I noted that when they play the song on the radio here, that verse is omitted.

Also, that came out the year I was born....Christ I'm old :/

[Bafuria]

Screw those, use millionare faggots.

Oh, the 80's, when, apparently, you could get away with saying such things in media. I noted that when they play the song on the radio here, that verse is omitted.

Also, that came out the year I was born....Christ I'm old :/

I thought you were older tbf, you are only three years older than my brother.

[Transnapastain]

Oh, the 80's, when, apparently, you could get away with saying such things in media. I noted that when they play the song on the radio here, that verse is omitted.

Also, that came out the year I was born....Christ I'm old :/

I thought you were older tbf, you are only three years older than my brother.

Haha, I'm not sure how to take that first part. Was just a slight shock to see a song I associated with my parents was actually from closer to my time than I thought.

[Arkania 5]

Is Raufoss Mk 211 a good round for a .50 semi-auto rifle?

[Allanea]

Is Raufoss Mk 211 a good round for a .50 semi-auto rifle?

For what? Most uses won't require a $200 round.

[Ularn]

This article might be interesting for any of you writing about special forces in your nation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17203398

[The New Imperia]

AN/ALQ-212
^This thing. can i put it in a fighter? (F22 specifically)

I put it in my factbook a while ago, but i'm yet to RP with it so i would like to know if i have a green light.

[Transnapastain]

EDIT: Broken Link, looking for a new one
^This thing. can i put it in a fighter? (F22 specifically)

I put it in my factbook a while ago, but i'm yet to RP with it so i would like to know if i have a green light.

I see BAE moving all their shit around got you, too.
Also, is this what you want?