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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Thu May 03, 2012 3:08 pm

Questers wrote:
Allanea wrote:Aren't there some jamming suites for tanks intended to screw with ATGMs?
Yes, Russian shtora system.


Well there you go. That qualifies as a tank EW suite, no?
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Crookfur
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Postby Crookfur » Thu May 03, 2012 3:17 pm

Allanea wrote:
Questers wrote: Yes, Russian shtora system.


Well there you go. That qualifies as a tank EW suite, no?


There are also the ECM systems deployed on pretty much every bit of british Armour that has been to iraq or afghanistan. Admitedly they are for messing up IED command signals.
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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Thu May 03, 2012 3:23 pm

United Districts of 1 wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:If you can land APCs you can land LCACs or LCUs.


Ok, now that I have that out of the way, would it be wise to build in a small electronic warfare suite into my MBT?


Be more specific please.

What threats do you want to counter? If we try to list every conceivable EW system that has or could be strapped to a AFV we will be here a very long time.
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Bafuria
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Postby Bafuria » Thu May 03, 2012 3:49 pm

http://i50.tinypic.com/5x1o3r.png

BMG-3 "Longbow"

Type: IRBM
Introduced: 1992
Range: 4500 km
Throw weight: 600 Kg
Length: 12.5 m
Width: 1.2 m
Weight: 10,400 Kg
Warhead: 1x 60 Kt atomic bomb
Guidance: Inertial
CEP: 90 m
Engine: Two-stage, solid-fuel engine.
Launch platform: Silo
Flyaway cost: $8,000,000

It's designed for a small nuclear power with a limited budget and big, scary neighbors. Countries such as Israel, Pakistan or Bafuria in SMS.
Last edited by Bafuria on Thu May 03, 2012 4:23 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Economic 3.1, Social -4.1

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United Districts of 1
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Postby United Districts of 1 » Thu May 03, 2012 3:57 pm

The Kievan People wrote:
United Districts of 1 wrote:
Ok, now that I have that out of the way, would it be wise to build in a small electronic warfare suite into my MBT?


Be more specific please.

What threats do you want to counter? If we try to list every conceivable EW system that has or could be strapped to a AFV we will be here a very long time.


Mainly to scramble targeting systems and help counter-act jammers.

Image
Stats
    Weight: 62.3 tonnes (61.3 long tons; 68.7 short tons)
    Length: 9.97 m (393 in) (gun forward)
    Width: 3.75 m (148 in)
    Height: 3.0 m (120 in)
    Crew: 4
    Armour: 4th generation composite; including high-hardness steel, tungsten and plastic filler with ceramic component.
    Main
    armament: 1 x 120 mm Vael Heavy Industries smoothbore gun
    62 rounds
    Secondary
    armament: 2 x 7.62 mm MG36A2
    5,000 rounds
    Engine: MTU MB 873 Ka-501 liquid-cooled V-12 Twin-turbo diesel engine
    1,500 PS (1,479 hp, 1,103 kW) at 2,600 rpm
    Power/weight: 24.1 PS/t (17.7 kW/t)
    Transmission: Renk HSWL 354
    Suspension: Torsion-bar suspension
    Fuel capacity: 1,150 liters(317 gallons)
    Operational
    range: 550 km (340 mi) (internal fuel)
    Speed: 68 km/h (45 mph)
Please refer to me as The Kyoto Trade Union at all times in IC
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Lenehen wrote:
Wamitoria wrote:Getting 90% of his military killed during an unnecessary, botched invasion of Russia?

Exactly! He killed a lot of frenchmen- something any englishman should aspire to!
My name in cat= Aknò:ziˑn rnckxx zeˑx

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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Thu May 03, 2012 4:04 pm

What kind of targeting systems?
RIP
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10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

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United Districts of 1
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Postby United Districts of 1 » Thu May 03, 2012 4:09 pm

The Kievan People wrote:What kind of targeting systems?

EMES 15 dual magnification stabilised primary sight that feeds telemetry data and live recording to command. Compiled telemetry and combat data will be compiled real time and used to correct targeting parameters.
Please refer to me as The Kyoto Trade Union at all times in IC
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Lenehen wrote:
Wamitoria wrote:Getting 90% of his military killed during an unnecessary, botched invasion of Russia?

Exactly! He killed a lot of frenchmen- something any englishman should aspire to!
My name in cat= Aknò:ziˑn rnckxx zeˑx

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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Thu May 03, 2012 4:17 pm

No, the ones you want to jam.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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Evil Xyborgs
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Postby Evil Xyborgs » Thu May 03, 2012 4:19 pm

wat
United Districts of 1 wrote:
The Kievan People wrote:What kind of targeting systems?

EMES 15 dual magnification stabilised primary sight that feeds telemetry data and live recording to command. Compiled telemetry and combat data will be compiled real time and used to correct targeting parameters.


wat

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United Districts of 1
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Postby United Districts of 1 » Thu May 03, 2012 4:19 pm

The Kievan People wrote:No, the ones you want to jam.


Oh.... durr
An E-warfare suite wont phase thermal or laser guiding would it? What type of systems would be vulnerable to a localized attack?
Please refer to me as The Kyoto Trade Union at all times in IC
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Lenehen wrote:
Wamitoria wrote:Getting 90% of his military killed during an unnecessary, botched invasion of Russia?

Exactly! He killed a lot of frenchmen- something any englishman should aspire to!
My name in cat= Aknò:ziˑn rnckxx zeˑx

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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Thu May 03, 2012 5:09 pm

Forget aircraft electronic warfare, it has no real relevance here.

A basic tank self protection system would be something like this:
- Laser Warning Receiver
- Radar Warning Receiver
- VIS/IR Smoke Grenades
- Chaff Grenades

When either of the warning receivers detects a laser designator, beamrider, rangefinder or radar emitter it will automatically slew the turret towards the threat and either fire smoke/chaff automatically or cue the crew to fire them manually. The the smoke/chaff will hopefully break the lock and allow the tank to drive to safety.

This isn't an ideal system though. Expendables run out, smoke prevents the tank from responding, beam riders and MMW radars are both difficult to detect and the system does nothing against missiles which do emit. To extend the system's capabilities you'll need a way to detect all kinds of missiles, there three options:
- UV: Reliable, long range, but only detects missiles during their boost phase and cannot detect many newer ATGM's at all.
- IR: Can detect all forms of incoming projectiles. Unreliable and prone to false alarms though, not very effective against subsonic unpowered targets like mortar shells.
- Radar: Can detect all kinds of projectiles, reliable, provides highly accurate information on trajectory and time to hit. As an active emitter it can compromise the vehicle, susceptible to jamming.

IRL Radar is the overwhelmingly preferred sensor.

Integrate that to the previously mentioned systems and you have a soft-kill protection system that is relatively effective against the full range of guided munitions. The effectiveness of expendables can be improved by mounting them on directional launchers, much more efficient the the more common fixed tubes. Replace the expendables with grenades and you have a hard kill active protection system.

There is more that can be done with soft-kill systems though. One system that has been mentioned in this thread is Shtora, which is similar to the basic system I described (minus radar warning receiver/chaff) but includes two infrared lamps that can jam SACLOS guided missiles. This is a somewhat dated method though, newer SACLOS missiles include anti-jam features. These days the preferred method is to use a low power laser pointed towards the missiles point of origin to blind the launcher, causing it to lose track of the target and missile it is guiding. For dealing with SACLOS and MCLOS missiles this is a much more efficient method than popping smoke.

MMW and Imaging Infrared/Electro-optical seekers are the most difficult to defeat passively. Jamming them is possible but impractical; the best countermeasures are signature reduction, hard kill APS and expendables. Beamriders are an intermediate case, dazzling the launcher with a laser is generally effective but unlike most other laser based systems it is difficult to accurately locate them from the laser signal alone.

So to recap:
- Smoke and chaff are wonderful and you can never have enough. They are the bread and butter of a ground vehicles ECM
- Laser detectors are almost a necessity, radar detectors are optional (they are very rare on ground vehicles IRL)
- Radar is good
- Laser dazzlers are handy
- APS systems are not really ECM but they are the single best defensive countermeasure you can get

Edit: I almost forgot but it is possible to jam laser range finders too. A Ukrainian company makes such a system as an add on for the Ukrainian version of Shtora (Varta). It's an interesting and potentially useful system but savvy operators can potentially counter it by ranging near the target rather than on it. Many modern LRF's already include anti-jam features.
Last edited by The Kievan People on Thu May 03, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RIP
Your Nation's Main Battle Tank (No Mechs)
10/06/2009 - 23/02/2013
Gone but not forgotten
DEUS STATUS: ( X ) VULT ( ) NOT VULT
Leopard 2 IRL
Imperializt Russia wrote:kyiv rn irl

Anemos wrote:<Anemos> thx Kyiv D:
<Anemos> you are the eternal onii-san

Europe, a cool region for cool people. Click to find out more.

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The Seven Realms
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Postby The Seven Realms » Thu May 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Is it possible to use microwaves to destroy missiles?
The Seven Commonwealth Realms of Alestria

DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5|Homefront
(╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
PSICOM Alertness:[1] 2 3|Tier 1 Emergency
Love Dog wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
tank crew wearing skirts? you know the gunner sits between the commanders legs right? :oops:


That's just plain epic.

Flag is accurate
I'm an F-14
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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7.38

I can be pretty authoritarian if I put my mind to it, apparently.

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Evil Xyborgs
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Postby Evil Xyborgs » Thu May 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Yes. Simply launch it in the direction of the missile. For larger missiles I would recommend a dishwasher.

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The Seven Realms
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Postby The Seven Realms » Thu May 03, 2012 6:25 pm

Evil Xyborgs wrote:Yes. Simply launch it in the direction of the missile. For larger missiles I would recommend a dishwasher.


...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....
The Seven Commonwealth Realms of Alestria

DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5|Homefront
(╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
PSICOM Alertness:[1] 2 3|Tier 1 Emergency
Love Dog wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
tank crew wearing skirts? you know the gunner sits between the commanders legs right? :oops:


That's just plain epic.

Flag is accurate
I'm an F-14
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7.38

I can be pretty authoritarian if I put my mind to it, apparently.

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Transnapastain
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Transnapastain » Thu May 03, 2012 6:27 pm

The Seven Realms wrote:
Evil Xyborgs wrote:Yes. Simply launch it in the direction of the missile. For larger missiles I would recommend a dishwasher.


...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....


What about refrigerators and color TV's?
Last edited by Transnapastain on Thu May 03, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Seven Realms
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Postby The Seven Realms » Thu May 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Transnapastain wrote:
The Seven Realms wrote:
...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....


What about refrigerators and color TV's?


...I could use the fridge to protect my soldiers from nukes...
The Seven Commonwealth Realms of Alestria

DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5|Homefront
(╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
PSICOM Alertness:[1] 2 3|Tier 1 Emergency
Love Dog wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
tank crew wearing skirts? you know the gunner sits between the commanders legs right? :oops:


That's just plain epic.

Flag is accurate
I'm an F-14
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 7.38

I can be pretty authoritarian if I put my mind to it, apparently.

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Bafuria
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Postby Bafuria » Thu May 03, 2012 6:31 pm

Transnapastain wrote:
The Seven Realms wrote:
...

I meant actual microwaves, not microwave ovens....


What about refrigerators and color TV's?


Screw those, use millionare faggots.
Last edited by Bafuria on Thu May 03, 2012 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Economic 3.1, Social -4.1

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Transnapastain
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Postby Transnapastain » Thu May 03, 2012 6:36 pm

Bafuria wrote:
Transnapastain wrote:
What about refrigerators and color TV's?


Screw those, use millionare faggots.


Oh, the 80's, when, apparently, you could get away with saying such things in media. I noted that when they play the song on the radio here, that verse is omitted.

Also, that came out the year I was born....Christ I'm old :/

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Bafuria
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Postby Bafuria » Thu May 03, 2012 6:45 pm

Transnapastain wrote:
Bafuria wrote:
Screw those, use millionare faggots.


Oh, the 80's, when, apparently, you could get away with saying such things in media. I noted that when they play the song on the radio here, that verse is omitted.

Also, that came out the year I was born....Christ I'm old :/


I thought you were older tbf, you are only three years older than my brother.
Economic 3.1, Social -4.1

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Transnapastain
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Postby Transnapastain » Thu May 03, 2012 6:50 pm

Bafuria wrote:
Transnapastain wrote:
Oh, the 80's, when, apparently, you could get away with saying such things in media. I noted that when they play the song on the radio here, that verse is omitted.

Also, that came out the year I was born....Christ I'm old :/


I thought you were older tbf, you are only three years older than my brother.


Haha, I'm not sure how to take that first part. :P Was just a slight shock to see a song I associated with my parents was actually from closer to my time than I thought.

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Arkania 5
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Postby Arkania 5 » Thu May 03, 2012 7:01 pm

Is Raufoss Mk 211 a good round for a .50 semi-auto rifle?
Last edited by Arkania 5 on Thu May 03, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MT <Compatible with FanT if needed>: The Shattered Enclave [INACTIVE]
FT: Aperture Industries
"The Shattered Enclave is technically a failed nation, but through all odds, they have survived as a million-headed hydra, all ready to simultaneously attack each other as their enemies. Wildly different factions, each with cultures that simply could not have developed within a hundred years, kept in a temporum of chaos...one wonders if more unexplained powers were involved in the creation of this monstrosity..."
WE ARE THE COLOR RED IN A WORLD FULL OF BLACK AND WHITE.....
tl;dr: Not a country or a nation. More like an entire world divided into a trillion pieces. Near impossible to invade. FanT/FT origins, MT/PMT technology.
Allanea wrote:evil shithole of a country

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Allanea
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Thu May 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Arkania 5 wrote:Is Raufoss Mk 211 a good round for a .50 semi-auto rifle?



For what? Most uses won't require a $200 round.
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

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Ularn
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Postby Ularn » Fri May 04, 2012 1:24 am

This article might be interesting for any of you writing about special forces in your nation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17203398
ULARN INTERSTELLAR FEDERATION
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FACTBOOK | Q&A | EMBASSIES & FOREIGN OFFICE | #NSFT | #NSLegion | TRIPLICATE DEFENCE INDUSTRIES
P2tM
Broken World: Beastmasters | Of Zombies and Men
Jesus was a carpenter, so really I'm the one doing God's work - all anyone else cares about is what he got up to on the dole!

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The New Imperia
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Founded: Aug 18, 2011
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Postby The New Imperia » Fri May 04, 2012 2:26 am

AN/ALQ-212
^This thing. can i put it in a fighter? (F22 specifically)

I put it in my factbook a while ago, but i'm yet to RP with it so i would like to know if i have a green light.
Last edited by The New Imperia on Fri May 04, 2012 2:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Transnapastain
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Postby Transnapastain » Fri May 04, 2012 2:28 am

The New Imperia wrote:EDIT: Broken Link, looking for a new one
^This thing. can i put it in a fighter? (F22 specifically)

I put it in my factbook a while ago, but i'm yet to RP with it so i would like to know if i have a green light.


I see BAE moving all their shit around got you, too.
Also, is this what you want?
Last edited by Transnapastain on Fri May 04, 2012 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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