NS Military Realism Consultation Thread

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

As proof that the 93rd should have been destroyed look at the Charge of the Light Brigade, a calvary unit charged and defeated a cannon position.

How many cannon and crew? Also cavalry numbers. Last time I checked if you send horsemen against a cannon the cannon wouldn't reload fast enough for a second shot and easily be cut down.

IIRC it was a tiny number of cannons, like 6 or 10. May be way off.

[Spirit of Hope]

How many cannon and crew? Also cavalry numbers. Last time I checked if you send horsemen against a cannon the cannon wouldn't reload fast enough for a second shot and easily be cut down.

IIRC it was a tiny number of cannons, like 6 or 10. May be way off.

50 cannons, supported by 20 battalions of infantry, around 670 calvary. The main thing is that most of the enemy force was in hills around the valley the calvary charged. Latter the cavalry was forced to withdraw because support did not drive, its possible they could have maintained their position if the support had arrived. Google it then read the wiki is my advice.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

IIRC it was a tiny number of cannons, like 6 or 10. May be way off.

50 cannons, supported by 20 battalions of infantry, around 670 calvary. The main thing is that most of the enemy force was in hills around the valley the calvary charged. Latter the cavalry was forced to withdraw because support did not drive, its possible they could have maintained their position if the support had arrived. Google it then read the wiki is my advice.

The British didn't have the forces to maintain any position, hell the entire forces involved in the battle were just 4,500 British who suffered about 600 casualties. Besides the Light Brigade had a chance to butcher the Russian cavalry after charge of the heavy brigade (or the leisurely walk of the heavy brigade as I just decided to call it), they just didn't charge to fleeing Russians.

[Spirit of Hope]

50 cannons, supported by 20 battalions of infantry, around 670 calvary. The main thing is that most of the enemy force was in hills around the valley the calvary charged. Latter the cavalry was forced to withdraw because support did not drive, its possible they could have maintained their position if the support had arrived. Google it then read the wiki is my advice.

The British didn't have the forces to maintain any position, hell the entire forces involved in the battle were just 4,500 British who suffered about 600 casualties. Besides the Light Brigade had a chance to butcher the Russian cavalry after charge of the heavy brigade (or the leisurely walk of the heavy brigade as I just decided to call it), they just didn't charge to fleeing Russians.

The Heavy Brigade could have advanced and supported the light brigade like the French calvary did. The french cleared out an entire side of the valley, the Heavy Brigade could have done the same thing or advanced directly to support the Light Brigade.

[Yes Im Biop]

Anglo i was screwing with a new guy and thought of you

[Vitaphone Racing]

or both at once.

or even been around a horse? I have, I have helped take care of horses. They are some of the stupidest animals in the world, also in many ways one of the worlds most fragile animals. Horses get spooked by almost anything, do you know why horses that pull carriages had blinders? So they don' see anything and thus don't get spooked.

-snip-

A heavily injured horse will likely collapse, this includes a horse that gets shot baldly but non fatally. Second even if it is injured lightly that horse will spook, which means it ill try and run away from the noise and smoke (aka the infantry formation) which destroys your tight calvary charge, make it much less efficient.

Correct, what matters is how far that horse travels before it collapses. A late shot from an infantry man will easily see the horse stagger into the formation and collapse. Stabbing it with a bayonet will see the horse plow through the formation and probably die on the otherside. The mass of a horse and the speed it travels is what kills here, I don't see why you're arguing against this.

If I jump up and down in the air, I'm not going to break my leg. I don't see why you think a horse breaking it's leg is likely for jumping over another dead horse on the ground, assuming it doesn't decide to trample it. You're trying to present a very rare occurence as a factor which must be considered; it doesn't work that way.

You don't do "harrassing fire" with limited ammunition and with guns that have the potential to fire only 12 rounds per minute. Harrassing fire is also going to be pretty pointless because:

What makes you think the horses in this scenario aren't trained?

How is a horse going to know what something sharp is if it has never been stabbed on a speak or a pike before? This is really basic psychology; don't touch the fire because it will burn stuff. Your points when it comes to horses abandoning the charge has also been proved wrong by centuries of warfare.

[Registug]

It would certainly do more, however it would attract MUCH more attention and their cause might be halted by military intervention.

Duct tape 20oz Bottle of Napalm around it just for the hell of it whale your at it

The whole point of the AGA is to provoke violent military responses from the government in an effort to make the government look bad and to cause a widespread revolution. After a decade, they still haven't succeeded.

I also like the napalm. What sort of damage would a home made thermite grenade do to a police APC? I want to know without needing to go and make some home made thermite myself. Home made incendiary grenades are frowned on in urban Australia.

[Yes Im Biop]

Duct tape 20oz Bottle of Napalm around it just for the hell of it whale your at it

The whole point of the AGA is to provoke violent military responses from the government in an effort to make the government look bad and to cause a widespread revolution. After a decade, they still haven't succeeded.

I also like the napalm. What sort of damage would a home made thermite grenade do to a police APC? I want to know without needing to go and make some home made thermite myself. Home made incendiary grenades are frowned on in urban Australia.

Thermite will Fuck anything up real good. Get enough of it and you can probably melt a hole in teh turrent of a tank. Add the 20oz of napalm in 6-8 bottle s and you have flaming hell. It would cover whatever your melting through. O! Police PAC sorry... Like a Swat truck? Stryker? Ferret? If its less than a few inches of steel then a pound or so of Thermite should do it (Crack a flare into it to add even more Burn to the mix)

[BioHAZARD1]

I've got about a billion population. With top 10% defense forces in the world. I'm using the US military as a guide, as in manpower what is an appropriate size for my branches? Army, Airforce and Navy. I appreciate any advice... Thanks!

[Shuggy555]

Duct tape 20oz Bottle of Napalm around it just for the hell of it whale your at it

The whole point of the AGA is to provoke violent military responses from the government in an effort to make the government look bad and to cause a widespread revolution. After a decade, they still haven't succeeded.

I also like the napalm. What sort of damage would a home made thermite grenade do to a police APC? I want to know without needing to go and make some home made thermite myself. Home made incendiary grenades are frowned on in urban Australia.

If you really wont to damage and armoured vehicle download a free pdf file of the internet titled Improvised Munitions handbook, it will teach you how to make various Armour peircing explosives out of common materials like a coke bottle.

Note, i really do not know the legality of what would happen if you were found to be making the stuff in the booklet so im not responsible for you when you blow your hands off.

[Yes Im Biop]

The whole point of the AGA is to provoke violent military responses from the government in an effort to make the government look bad and to cause a widespread revolution. After a decade, they still haven't succeeded.

I also like the napalm. What sort of damage would a home made thermite grenade do to a police APC? I want to know without needing to go and make some home made thermite myself. Home made incendiary grenades are frowned on in urban Australia.

If you really wont to damage and armoured vehicle download a free pdf file of the internet titled Improvised Munitions handbook, it will teach you how to make various Armour peircing explosives out of common materials like a coke bottle.

Note, i really do not know the legality of what would happen if you were found to be making the stuff in the booklet so im not responsible for you when you blow your hands off.

Archaist's Cookbook. Avable on Amazon for $19.99

[The Kievan People]

I've got about a billion population. With top 10% defense forces in the world. I'm using the US military as a guide, as in manpower what is an appropriate size for my branches? Army, Airforce and Navy. I appreciate any advice... Thanks!

Top 10% is hardly worth making into a sig.

[Registug]

The whole point of the AGA is to provoke violent military responses from the government in an effort to make the government look bad and to cause a widespread revolution. After a decade, they still haven't succeeded.

I also like the napalm. What sort of damage would a home made thermite grenade do to a police APC? I want to know without needing to go and make some home made thermite myself. Home made incendiary grenades are frowned on in urban Australia.

If you really wont to damage and armoured vehicle download a free pdf file of the internet titled Improvised Munitions handbook, it will teach you how to make various Armour peircing explosives out of common materials like a coke bottle.

Note, i really do not know the legality of what would happen if you were found to be making the stuff in the booklet so im not responsible for you when you blow your hands off.

I don't actually want to make the stuff (as I'm likely to be arrested), I just want to know what sort of damage it would do. Currently I've got anarchists throwing the thermite out of windows and onto a police variant LAV convoy. So far I've only had the grenades falling through open hatches, and a partially opened hatch. Now, I don't know what the thermite will do when faced against the actual armour, and not just weakpoints. I also don't know the thickness of the LAV armour, but I've read that it can survive a 155mm airburst. So, yeah.

[Spirit of Hope]

Correct, what matters is how far that horse travels before it collapses. A late shot from an infantry man will easily see the horse stagger into the formation and collapse. Stabbing it with a bayonet will see the horse plow through the formation and probably die on the otherside. The mass of a horse and the speed it travels is what kills here, I don't see why you're arguing against this.

If I jump up and down in the air, I'm not going to break my leg. I don't see why you think a horse breaking it's leg is likely for jumping over another dead horse on the ground, assuming it doesn't decide to trample it. You're trying to present a very rare occurence as a factor which must be considered; it doesn't work that way.

You don't do "harrassing fire" with limited ammunition and with guns that have the potential to fire only 12 rounds per minute. Harrassing fire is also going to be pretty pointless because:

What makes you think the horses in this scenario aren't trained?

How is a horse going to know what something sharp is if it has never been stabbed on a speak or a pike before? This is really basic psychology; don't touch the fire because it will burn stuff. Your points when it comes to horses abandoning the charge has also been proved wrong by centuries of warfare.

Its not one man staying a horse, its a dozen men shoulder to shoulder, with more behind them locking them in place staying a horse. The horse likely won't go charging through if it lives, but will attempt to change direction and escape the pain.

The situation would more be along the lines of "you with 40-50 pounds on your back sprinting at full speed, shoulder to shoulder with 100 other men, are forced to jump over a fallen comrade in wooded forest" under that situation you would have a nice chance of tripping and or miss landing falling and hurting yourself. Race horses break their legs on race tracks, yes thats rare but make the horse bigger carrying a cavalry man and charging across a non ideal surface and you will have horses that are injured.

A trained horse with rider will continue the charge. However wound that horse, or remove its rider and its less likely to continue the charge, fouling up the charging formation. Infantry are well known to fire at cavalry as far away as 600 yards and have an effect on the charging cavalry.

A horse doesn't need to know "hey those bayonets can kill me" what it needs to know is that it is galloping at a large group of men, presenting a solid formation making load noises (gunfire) and smoke. The horses first instinct is to run, training can and will overcome this. However training only goes so far and horses try to run from things instead of charge them.

Looking back at the situation its dead cavalry, they are charging across forest having not started their charge until they were 300 meters away from their target, with the rifle men getting of 3 shots per 10 seconds, assuming thats right. Even if its 12 rounds a minute thats aprox. 5 rounds a man or 1,000 rounds. Some of the cavalry would probably make it to the infantry, however they would be few and scattered and having just watched their entire force be decimated. They might be able to do damage with their revolvers at range but it would be fewer shots than what the infantry get off,and much less accurate.

[Shuggy555]

If you really wont to damage and armoured vehicle download a free pdf file of the internet titled Improvised Munitions handbook, it will teach you how to make various Armour peircing explosives out of common materials like a coke bottle.

Note, i really do not know the legality of what would happen if you were found to be making the stuff in the booklet so im not responsible for you when you blow your hands off.

Archaist's Cookbook. Avable on Amazon for $19.99

Most E books you can find free online

is this the book your talking about?
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/pdfs/misc/anarchistcookbook2000.pdf

[Vitaphone Racing]

Its not one man staying a horse, its a dozen men shoulder to shoulder, with more behind them locking them in place staying a horse. The horse likely won't go charging through if it lives, but will attempt to change direction and escape the pain.

Horses don't do that when they are surrounded by horses on either side. They jump over obstacles that are their way. Man sized obstacles.

One horse that weighs 500kg. Travelling at 15 metres per second. This gives it a kinetic energy of 12500 Joules. When this horse plows into the front, where do you think all this energy is going to go? Through every one of the infantry men? Damn straight. Anybody in the horses path will be slightly concussed or bruised at best, dead at worst.

The situation would more be along the lines of "you with 40-50 pounds on your back sprinting at full speed, shoulder to shoulder with 100 other men, are forced to jump over a fallen comrade in wooded forest" under that situation you would have a nice chance of tripping and or miss landing falling and hurting yourself. Race horses break their legs on race tracks, yes thats rare but make the horse bigger carrying a cavalry man and charging across a non ideal surface and you will have horses that are injured.

Again history and reality disagrees with you. Horses breaking their legs are rare occurence and aren't guaranteed to even happen. I don't see why you continue to dispute this as if it makes a world of difference.

A trained horse with rider will continue the charge. However wound that horse, or remove its rider and its less likely to continue the charge, fouling up the charging formation. Infantry are well known to fire at cavalry as far away as 600 yards and have an effect on the charging cavalry.

Provide sources of this that show that infantry firing on horses at 600 yards has a profound effect on the charge. Show several so that we can see it wasn't even a one off.

As I have said before now, history and reality isn't on the same side that you're arguing. If things were the way you are trying to make it seem, cavalry charges would have never happened.

A horse doesn't need to know "hey those bayonets can kill me" what it needs to know is that it is galloping at a large group of men, presenting a solid formation making load noises (gunfire) and smoke. The horses first instinct is to run, training can and will overcome this. However training only goes so far and horses try to run from things instead of charge them.

As above.

Looking back at the situation its dead cavalry, they are charging across forest having not started their charge until they were 300 meters away from their target, with the rifle men getting of 3 shots per 10 seconds, assuming thats right. Even if its 12 rounds a minute thats aprox. 5 rounds a man or 1,000 rounds. Some of the cavalry would probably make it to the infantry, however they would be few and scattered and having just watched their entire force be decimated. They might be able to do damage with their revolvers at range but it would be fewer shots than what the infantry get off,and much less accurate.

- Any shots fired before the cavalry were 50 metres away are extremely unlikely to have hit them.
- The infantry may have time to fire one or two effective volleys at absolute best, with iron sites, while under pressure, against moving targets. Shots aren't guaranteed to hit.
- Horses that are hit at close range perhaps by a second effective volley are likely to end up in the formation for reasons I explained.

Three key points you still haven't bothered to consider which makes a world of difference.

[Jagalonia]

Have you ever shot a rifle or rode the horse.

or both at once.

I have done both at once. The horse doesn't spook when it gets used to the noise.

[Jagalonia]

If you really wont to damage and armoured vehicle download a free pdf file of the internet titled Improvised Munitions handbook, it will teach you how to make various Armour peircing explosives out of common materials like a coke bottle.

Note, i really do not know the legality of what would happen if you were found to be making the stuff in the booklet so im not responsible for you when you blow your hands off.

I don't actually want to make the stuff (as I'm likely to be arrested), I just want to know what sort of damage it would do. Currently I've got anarchists throwing the thermite out of windows and onto a police variant LAV convoy. So far I've only had the grenades falling through open hatches, and a partially opened hatch. Now, I don't know what the thermite will do when faced against the actual armour, and not just weakpoints. I also don't know the thickness of the LAV armour, but I've read that it can survive a 155mm airburst. So, yeah.

Well, if you get enough, you can cut a car in half....

Wait, thermite, or thermate?

[Yes Im Biop]

If you really wont to damage and armoured vehicle download a free pdf file of the internet titled Improvised Munitions handbook, it will teach you how to make various Armour peircing explosives out of common materials like a coke bottle.

Note, i really do not know the legality of what would happen if you were found to be making the stuff in the booklet so im not responsible for you when you blow your hands off.

I don't actually want to make the stuff (as I'm likely to be arrested), I just want to know what sort of damage it would do. Currently I've got anarchists throwing the thermite out of windows and onto a police variant LAV convoy. So far I've only had the grenades falling through open hatches, and a partially opened hatch. Now, I don't know what the thermite will do when faced against the actual armour, and not just weakpoints. I also don't know the thickness of the LAV armour, but I've read that it can survive a 155mm airburst. So, yeah.

No. Thats tank killing shot...Hell that's City block killing stuff. LAV's don't usually have thick armor. They are made to get in, Get out and do it fast. A few pounds of thermite should melt holes clean through them.

[Registug]

Right, I reckon I've got the info I need now. Thanke.

[Ularn]

Still, it seems like the modern situation has some problems. A recruit might have strong innate leadership and strategic abilities that would make them ideal officer material but, because they did badly at school or didn't get a University/College degree before enlisting, they aren't considered for officer training, thereby depriving the military of the benefit they'd provide if given a commission. It seems to me that there should be some sort of solution to this problem.

this isn't actually a problem for the military. its just unfair on the individual. if the recruiting standards and process deliver enough officer the army is fine. it doesn't matter if theres a good candidate soldiering away in the ranks. if it doesn't they'll simply throw away the requirement for a degree (though in the british army their is no such requirement.)

regarding the overlap between WO2 and 2nd LT. its quite deliberate. one may well have to do the others job on the battlefield.

It's in the military's interests to have the best people possible in the best positions possible. If a soldier would be more useful as a Lieutenant, but the army has him as a Private, then the army ends up poorer for it even if they already have sufficient lieutenants.

And although it's possible to be an officer in the British Army without a university degree or equivalent, I suspect it's not at all common for someone to go into officer training straight out of school.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

Anglo i was screwing a guy and thought of you

Well I don't know how to feel about that. Thank you?

[Bafuria]

I've been thinking, why are electronics in tanks so expensive?

I can understand the need for communications, night vision, gun stabilization, gun temperature calculations and GPS, but those things don't seem very expensive to me. At least not in the range of millions.

What else do modern tanks use that make them so hilariously expensive?

EDIT: I guess I should have posted this in the tank thread, oh well.

[Bajireyn]

Anglo i was screwing with a new guy and thought of you

Thats not creepy at all.... >_>

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

Anglo i was screwing with a new guy and thought of you

Thats not creepy at all.... >_>

Is it gay? No one online knows since no one online definitively knows my sex.