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Referendum in Scientar[CLOSED]

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Conscentia
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Referendum in Scientar[CLOSED]

Postby Conscentia » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:45 pm

Hello people! ((Your NS nations are individuals living in Scientar, not nations, for this thread.))
A petition asking for a referendum on the economy has gained enough popularity to receive what it asks for.
Today begins a referendum which questions our enforced socialism.

Referendum is over - the No Campaign succeeded.

Referendum Information
The Referendum is over!
A no victory on this referendum will lead to no change at all, and this referendum would have been a big waste of taxes, whilst a yes victory will allow people to sell their labour to entrepreneurs hoping to earn money and will open up the market - which according to capitalists will benefit our economy, a boost which anti-capitalists claim will only be temporary, and shall end in a huge market crash, or won't happen at all.
Capitalism is not technically illegal in Scientar, but only due to the wording of the law. Instead Capitalism violates current laws which maintain every business in Scientar as a cooperative in our currently Market Socialist and Syndicalist economy.
If you have questions to the Yes campaign or No campaign, or comments, or you wish to give your support to your choice of campaign or you wish to ask people to vote for a campaign then please feel free to do that by posting.

Yes Campaign
The yes campaign is led by Howard Ken, Dr. Ayn Ricard and Dr. Marx Weber. They were the the three people who began petition asking for the referendum. They have actually petitioned in the past, in 2017 to be specific, but that attempt did not succeed.
"Vote yes, you'll have more freedom, more rights, and more money. If you don't, this whole referendum would have been a great big waste of money to find out that most people were happy with things the way they already are."

A yes victory would mean:
- Taxes would no longer be mandatory. One will be able to opt of out them after you have paid off any remaining taxes you have to pay. Opting out of paying taxes will mean you will not be able to receive any free state provided services, like healthcare, national television and national public transport among the other services supplied by Central Services.
The freedom to not have to pay taxes is important in the opinion of Howard Ken, Dr. Ricard and Dr. Weber. They also claim that by allowing people to opt out of taxes, Central Services will have to improve in order to compete because their flow of money will no longer secure.
- One would of course be able to opt back into paying taxes in order to be able to receive free Central Services once more.
Education will still be mandatory, but if the student or their guardian opts out then someone will have to pay for it or they child will have a debt to pay off to the school or state.
- One will be able to opt out of some specific taxes, for example you can opt out of all taxes except the tax which pays for the police. Or you can option out of all taxes except healthcare and education.
- Entrepreneurs will be free to buy the labour and produce of people. Currently when you set up a business, the workers are not employees, but your partners with part ownership of your business. A yes victory will change this to allow cooperatives and entrepreneurs to hire employees, to work in the place of the members of the cooperative/the entrepreneur.

Image

No campaign
The no campaign is led by Dr. Karl Picard, Dr. Eve Maynard Jefferson, Dr. Ricardo Owen. They are firmly anti-capitalist, and opposed the referendum in the first place - dismissing it as a waste of money.

They argue that Capitalism will lead to wage slavery and higher inequality. It is argued by many anti-capitalists, including Dr. Ricardo, that society under capitalism deems "waste" valueless; even when much of this "waste" can be used and reused almost indefinitely. This means tonnes of usable resources gets dumped in the cheapest way possible to preserve profits, at the expense of the environment.
They also claim that Capitalism may lead to an increased change of market failure and market instability, which will harm the economy.
They also criticise allowing people to opt out of taxes. They say that this will drain money out of the national budget supply, leaving the people that use Central Services with worse quality services; and forcing Central Services to fire their staff. They also point out that some of the tax money is spent on things that benefit everyone, like the emergency services. Surely it's not right to charge people for protection and help.

"Vote no! By doing so you will have voted against inequality, inefficiency, and exploitation!"

A no vote will mean:
- No change at all.

Image
Last edited by Conscentia on Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:23 am, edited 5 times in total.


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Hwanghaebuk
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Postby Hwanghaebuk » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:04 pm

The Management Corporation unofficially commends the possible increase in your citizens' right and ability to choose should "yes" win the referendum. We are especially pleased to see the opt-out taxation scheme as it will help keep the state accountable to its customers, sorry, citizens and its services worth their price. While we may disagree with you on economical ideology and the ideal form of government we recognize that people must be free to personally choose what kind of a society they want to live in and your plan would enable it to a much higher degree than in the vast majority of countries. :clap:

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:13 am

Hwanghaebuk wrote:The Management Corporation unofficially commends the possible increase in your citizens' right and ability to choose should "yes" win the referendum. We are especially pleased to see the opt-out taxation scheme as it will help keep the state accountable to its customers, sorry, citizens and its services worth their price. While we may disagree with you on economical ideology and the ideal form of government we recognize that people must be free to personally choose what kind of a society they want to live in and your plan would enable it to a much higher degree than in the vast majority of countries. :clap:


Dr. Marx Weber, of the Yes Campaign: Thank-you, foreign corporation.We are pleased to hear foreign support for our cause.



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Democratic Koyro
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Postby Democratic Koyro » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:00 am

The Koy People's Democratic Republic offically supports the "no" campagin, recognising that capitalism is a flawed, outdated and oppressive ideology, the result of a capitalist economic system is slavery, poverty, wage slavery, inequality, inefficeny, inferior goods, inferior products, in short, the creation of a capitalist economy will create evils unknown to a Socialist economy, thus the Koy People's Socialist Revolutionary Party of the Koy People's Democratic Republic encourages the people of Scientar to vote for socialism and reject capitalism.
Last edited by Democratic Koyro on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THERMOBARIC THERMITE

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:06 am

Democratic Koyro wrote:The Koy People's Democratic Republic offically supports the "no" campagin, recognising that capitalism is a flawed, outdated and oppressive ideology, the result of a capitalist economic system is slavery, poverty, wage slavery, inequality, inefficeny, inferior goods, inferior products, in short, the creation of a capitalist economy will create evils unknown to a Socialist economy, thus the Koy People's Revolutionary Party of the Koy People's Democratic Republic encourages the people of Scientar to vote for socialism and reject capitalism.


Dr. Ricardo Owen: "Thank-you for your support of the No Campaign. We hope that our citizens will also see that Capitalism has far too many flaws to be allowed by law."
Last edited by Conscentia on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Voerdeland
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Postby Voerdeland » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:42 am

Government of the Voerdish Free State officially supports the "No!" campaign. As Abel Thiers (our President and former Secretary-General of the Communist Party) said: "Freedom in a capitalist system means freedom to exploit, freedom to steal, and freedom to fraud".

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:40 pm

Voerdeland wrote:Government of the Voerdish Free State officially supports the "No!" campaign. As Abel Thiers (our President and former Secretary-General of the Communist Party) said: "Freedom in a capitalist system means freedom to exploit, freedom to steal, and freedom to fraud".


Dr. Ricardo Owen: "Thank-you for your support of the No Campaign. Indeed, the freedom of Capitalism is the freedom to exploit and the freedom to lower the freedom of others. Though call it the freedom to steal and the freedom to fraud is going a bit far."

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Voerdeland
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Postby Voerdeland » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:51 pm

Conscentia wrote:
Voerdeland wrote:Government of the Voerdish Free State officially supports the "No!" campaign. As Abel Thiers (our President and former Secretary-General of the Communist Party) said: "Freedom in a capitalist system means freedom to exploit, freedom to steal, and freedom to fraud".


Dr. Ricardo Owen: "Thank-you for your support of the No Campaign. Indeed, the freedom of Capitalism is the freedom to exploit and the freedom to lower the freedom of others. Though call it the freedom to steal and the freedom to fraud is going a bit far."

Maybe it is. This exaggeration is typical for the Voerdish political culture. Apparently, according to our politicians, electoral campaign without calling your opponents freedom-hating traitors is a wasted electoral campaign.
Dr Abigail Russouw, teacher of political science at the Kronstadt University
Last edited by Voerdeland on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Syvorji
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Postby Syvorji » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:58 pm

We, the government of Syvorji personally vote No, arguing that it is a waste of resources, and that under capitalism, it gives an excuse to commit human rights violations, like Bristain did against Syvorjins when it occupied it after deposing the communist regime.

Signed,
Emperor Honox I

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:38 pm

Syvorji wrote:We, the government of Syvorji personally vote No, arguing that it is a waste of resources, and that under capitalism, it gives an excuse to commit human rights violations, like Bristain did against Syvorjins when it occupied it after deposing the communist regime.

Signed,
Emperor Honox I


Dr. Eve M. Jefferson: Thank-you for the support.


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Accoltia
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Founded: Jul 19, 2011
Free-Market Paradise

Postby Accoltia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:30 pm

Accoltia can not and will not support a system which does not allow capitalism. We support the Yes Campaign.

- President Alfred E. Smith, Jr.


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Byer
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Postby Byer » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:18 am

The Republic of Byer backs the NO campaign.

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Flaming Soul Forces
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Postby Flaming Soul Forces » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:26 am

'Say NO to Capitalism!'

said Alican Relenoris, the Minister of External Affairs of Flaming Soul Forces (and member of the Egalitarian Party)
Founder of ''THE ALTERNATIVE LEFT'' Now in ESQUARIUM!
Bachelor of Arts in European Studies
BISEXUAL
Economic Left/Right: -5.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95
Not the average Greek-Cypriot

''In most countries, when people see a same-sex couple they assume they're gay and when they see an opposite-sex couple they assume they're straight. In Codifin, when we see a same-sex couple we think that they're acting on their same-sex attraction and when we see an opposite-sex couple we think that they're acting on their opposite-sex attraction. And the reason is that everyone is assumed to be bisexual, until stating otherwise.''
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Remember remember, the 26 of November (2015): the day the civil partnership bill became a law in CYPRUS

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TurtleShroom
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Postby TurtleShroom » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:37 am

FROM THE HOLY REPUBLIC OF TURTLESHROOM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
JONESBORO OFFICE #2
BUREAURAT

SCIENTARITE PEOPLE:

Your "YES" campaign is backed by the full sponsorship and approval of the Holy Republic of TurtleShroom.

We are awed and astounded at your decision to let the people choose what economic system you want. The "opt-out of the system" idea is one totally alien in TurtleShroom, where taxes are compulsary, but we look at your nation's idea with shock and amazement. That, good sir or ma'am, is BRILLIANT.

We've been a capitalist nation for over two hundred years, and can attest to its benefits and successes. Letting people make something of themselves through their own hard work, sweat, and toil is a noble and commendable attempt, and capitalism makes it possible.
Sadly, that means some will slip through the cracks, but just add some programs for those who need it most: pensions for elders, checks for the incapacitated, workman's compensation... --but only for those who can not, in any way, help or work for themselves.
That's really the only good thing that Marxism is good for: patching the flaws of its superior system.

Don't look to our people's crappy economy as evidence against capitalism; we tanked our economy because we issue shackling ethics laws and brutal fines for companies found to be corrupt, dishonest, impure, or otherwise unclean. No institution, public or private, is allowed to cheat the system or damage the integrity of the people or the nation. Except oil. Oil is pretty much autonomous unless they spill or make a mess.

(Also, minimum wage is overrated.)


SIGNED
-BUREAUCRAT ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF TURTLESHROOM
Last edited by TurtleShroom on Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dagnia
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Postby Dagnia » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:46 am

Vote Yes for Capitalism. There is no good reason to prevent a law-abiding citizen from marketing his ideas the way he wants to.
Wait an hour, and it will be now again

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:13 am

It's a draw...need a stalemate associate.

TurtleShroom wrote:
FROM THE HOLY REPUBLIC OF TURTLESHROOM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
JONESBORO OFFICE #2
BUREAURAT

SCIENTARITE PEOPLE:

Your "YES" campaign is backed by the full sponsorship and approval of the Holy Republic of TurtleShroom.

We are awed and astounded at your decision to let the people choose what economic system you want. The "opt-out of the system" idea is one totally alien in TurtleShroom, where taxes are compulsary, but we look at your nation's idea with shock and amazement. That, good sir or ma'am, is BRILLIANT.

We've been a capitalist nation for over two hundred years, and can attest to its benefits and successes. Letting people make something of themselves through their own hard work, sweat, and toil is a noble and commendable attempt, and capitalism makes it possible.
Sadly, that means some will slip through the cracks, but just add some programs for those who need it most: pensions for elders, checks for the incapacitated, workman's compensation... --but only for those who can not, in any way, help or work for themselves.
That's really the only good thing that Marxism is good for: patching the flaws of its superior system.

Don't look to our people's crappy economy as evidence against capitalism; we tanked our economy because we issue shackling ethics laws and brutal fines for companies found to be corrupt, dishonest, impure, or otherwise unclean. No institution, public or private, is allowed to cheat the system or damage the integrity of the people or the nation. Except oil. Oil is pretty much autonomous unless they spill or make a mess.

(Also, minimum wage is overrated.)


SIGNED
-BUREAUCRAT ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF TURTLESHROOM


Howard Ken and Dr. Karl Ricard of the Yes Campaign:
Pleased to learn of your support for our campaign. We hope other nations will adopt our opt-out tax scheme if we win the campaign.

You say that you are "astounded" by the nations decision to hold this referendum. The government does not have choice on the matter. We have a system of semi-direct democracy, giving our people the right to referendum. All you need to do is gather enough support, submit your application and if you have enough support then there will be a referendum.
This referendum is the product of a tough campaign to gain support. Cost us a lot of money, but I think it was a worthy cause to spend my money on - especially if the Yes Campaign is successful.

We are pleased to here that you have sacrificed economic success for a better nation and to prevent corruption.
Though we don't have a minimum wage, we have never needed one. (Our laws kind of made it obsolete, but I won't go into that.)

(We are Scientarics, or Scientari People, not Scientarite People.)

Thank-you for contacting us.
Last edited by Conscentia on Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Hun-Jagan Corporation
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Postby Hun-Jagan Corporation » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:48 am

To whom it may concern,

The Directorate of the Hun-Jagan Corporation voted Capitalism with 562 votes vs. 8 votes for Communism. We therefore support the Capitalistic Movement of Scientar and would congratulate its populace if they decided to follow the true, efficient and, let's face it, most profitable path of economy. Maybe you are even interested in our newest hovertanks? How about our soap products? We can also support the communists. We still have large weapon stocks free for sale!

H/J Corp. wants to join a trade-treaty with your benevolent nation.

Sincerely,
Jenny Brisbane, MSc Financial Mathematics, Associate Principal for Tourism, Foreign Affairs and Nuclear Warfare.
Factbook: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=130011If you are interested- I think the satiric factbook is quite condensed and worth a read

"Do whatever you have to do, set fire to some more oil wells, because the price is going to go higher."

Recently regarding the daily issues: "(...)Hun-Jagan Corporation should take a more active, and by 'active' I mean 'hostile', role in international politics! This ethnic squabbling will be over when the war is over, and WE can end that war and purge the impure! Producing more sophisticated products today!! Sieg Hun-Jagan Corporation!"lolwat?



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