All the World's Dreadnoughts

by **Jinos** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:40 am

reposting to fix some stuff.

Time frame: 1922-1960
Pre or post treaty, or both? Exclusionary: Jinos was not a world power at the time the WNT was signed and wasn't included.
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question? 4th rank at the time of the WNT. 3rd rank at the beginning of WWII. 2nd rank by end of WWII.
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically? Mix of Russian and Japanese
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers? I think he came up with the idea of what a modern battlecruiser was.
What do you think of German style battlecruisers? Obsolete way of thinking. A battlecruiser shouldn't be a less armored battleship.
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional: superior technological advantage; better naval tacticians; superior torpedo technology
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional: lower quality parts due to rapid industrialization; poor armor welding measures sometimes lead to lower quality armor.
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional: Made less ships but with better specifications (lack of mass production played a part); tended to trade armor for speed and maneuverability
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built: Jinos was a newly emerging nation struggling to secure its position as a world power. The top priority at the time was to get a decent sized navy that could stand up to the IJN, as the fleet it had inherited from Russia was sorely lacking.
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc): All Jinos ships had to be outfitted with armored bows to withstand the natural ice flows that form during the winter; caused more mass in tonnage but eliminated the torpedo vulnerability most capital ships had at their bow.

by **Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient)** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:43 am

Mount Shavano wrote:
Greater Kaliningrad wrote:Time frame (max. 1906-1945):1936
Pre or post treaty, or both?Post treaty
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question?2nd class
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically?Soviet Union Geography and Modern Russia Government
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers?Bad armor but fast
What do you think of German style battlecruisers?High Quallity
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional:High Grade armor and a tendency to build large amounts of ships
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional:Incompetent admirals
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional:Shallow draught to operate in the Baltic and a Fetish for Battleships to enable Black Sea fleet to operate in the Medditeranian
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built:Defend the Country against totalitarian and Authotaritarian regimes
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc):Laws banning carriers from crossing the Bospherous and Dardanneles.*Fascist Dictatorships are running China,Germany,Finland,Romania,Bulgaria,Turkey,Hungary,and Iran.Japan is a democratic ally.

When the Washington Treaty began collapsing in in the mid-1930s, a new wave of battleship construction began worldwide. The government of Greater Kaliningrad was no exception; at around the time the Bismarcks were laid down in Germany and the Italias in Italy, she also began design work for a new class of ships.

The initial order and design reviews were delayed almost two full months by a debate between the senior admirals and the government that would be funding the ships; the initial government proposal had been for a ship of 35,000 tons mounting 15" guns to match the latest German, Italian, and Chinese battleships, while avoid the massive costs and potential arms race a larger design might bring on. The admirals, for their part, held that this design was not powerful enough, on paper, to give Greater Kaliningrad the international prestige they also wanted from the project, or even to provide a superior fighting unit to some of the 1920 vintage battleships still in the Confederacy's arsenal. Ultimately, the 16" proposal won out, although some insist to this day that the deciding factor wasn't the admirals insistence on trumping their own elderly ships, but rather that the firms with the most experience with 15" were in fascist Germany and potentially fascist Italy, while 16" design work would instead best be conducted by firms in the less hostile F.R.R. or Harberian Empire.

The increase in caliber to 16" also necessitated an increase in the displacement of the ship. The government was not too concerned about this, despite treaty obligations limiting ships to 35,000 tons. Words on paper were, of course, of less import than national security - a stance that also applied to patent law, as we shall see. The final design was 44,500 tons (although the Confederacy did not admit to a standard displacement greater than 35,000 for years), and carried nine 16" guns in two triples superfiring forward, and another aft. The influence of an Italian design submitted but not accepted could be seen in the raised aft turret. The armor scheme chosen harkened back to the lessons of Tsushima, with a relatively thin belt covering nearly the entire ship. This was in direct contrast to the All-or-Nothing policy adopted by most of the world's major navies after Jutland; Greater Kaliningrad, however, rejected the "armored raft" as dangerously inadequate. There was a also a heavy emphasis on deck armor to protect against long range fire; while its usefulness against shellfire is debatable, it proved most fortuitous when the dive bomber came into its own. The design had a relatively slow 26 knot speed, as more was not seen as necessary for the narrow waters of the Baltic and Black Seas. The peculiarities of those seas drove several other design decisions; first, a relatively shallow draft. This was a boon for ships that might be fighting in the Skagerrak, but impended their seaworthiness and stability in heavy weather. Second, the confined seas were seen as making ships especially vulnerable to destroyer torpedo attack; accordingly, the secondary armament of 24x6" (a design gifted by GK's Japanese allies) was very heavy, although the selection of the longer ranged 6" over the more versatile 5" forced the inclusion of a separate anti-air armament, of less strength than it might have been. Finally, torpedo protection was excellent.

The three ships in the class were all completed to slightly different designs. The Sevastopol ship was armed with 16"/45 guns left over from a cancelled unit of the 1920 class, allowing her to be the first completed. She likely would have beaten the lead Bismarcks and Italias into service had it not been for delays in procuring her armor. The Kaliningrad ship was armed with 16"/50 guns ordered from Navato Naval Construction in the Front Range; these were the same type as those carried by the Silver Dawn. She was about 1,000 tons heavier than her sisters, due to the thick face armor on the turrets, and had even more trouble with rough seas. The St. Petersburg battleship, the last to be completed, used Confederacy-built 16"/50s, which were probably better for use in this class than the heavier Front Range guns. All three ships used GK manufactured armor, made to the same formula as the high-quality Krupp steel protecting Bismarck and Tirpitz. Exactly how this formula was acquired is still a state secret.

Kaliningrad, Greater Kalningrad Battleship laid down 1935 (Engine 1936)

Displacement:
41,248 t light; 43,962 t standard; 44,500 t normal; 44,931 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
765.96 ft / 750.00 ft x 120.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
233.47 m / 228.60 m x 36.58 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (3x3 guns), 2,048.00lbs / 928.96kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (12x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
on side, all amidships
24 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 21,348 lbs / 9,683 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 525.00 ft / 160.02 m 13.15 ft / 4.01 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 224.98 ft / 68.57 m 13.15 ft / 4.01 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 525.00 ft / 160.02 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 525.00 ft / 160.02 m 22.85 ft / 6.96 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 89,714 shp / 66,927 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 969 tons

Complement:
1,531 - 1,991

Cost:
£20.555 million / $82.221 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,669 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 16,678 tons, 37.5 %
- Belts: 5,062 tons, 11.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,775 tons, 4.0 %
- Armament: 2,468 tons, 5.5 %
- Armour Deck: 7,102 tons, 16.0 %
- Conning Tower: 271 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,517 tons, 5.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,384 tons, 43.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,252 tons, 7.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
74,875 lbs / 33,963 Kg = 36.6 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 10.2 ft / 3.1 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.95

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.721
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.12 ft / 9.18 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 19.17 ft / 5.84 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.17 ft / 5.84 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.17 ft / 5.84 m
- Stern: 19.17 ft / 5.84 m
- Average freeboard: 19.83 ft / 6.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.1 %
Waterplane Area: 76,781 Square feet or 7,133 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1,049 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 0.99
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

What do you think?

Have the cancelled battleships be converted to Russia's first big Carreirs.They built upon the converted Protected Cruiser Askold.

by **Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient)** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:27 am

Design 1
Time frame (max. 1906-1945):1935
Pre or post treaty, or both?China was too minor to be a world power at that time to be represented in the WNT
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question?4th rate by WNT but 2nd rate by this time
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically?A mixture of Nazi Germany and Nationalist China
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers?Very bad
What do you think of German style battlecruisers?The best in the world
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional:Krupp is willing to send us steel for armor and we have an emphasis for big guns and high prestige
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional:Bad indegenous engines and the engines must be flown from germany
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional:Low speed for High Manouverability
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built:Japan and Russia has signed an alliance to defend democracy in Asia in 1919.The aim is to invade them
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc):Elements in the armed forces want a bigger army or more aircraft carriers
Design 2
Time frame (max. 1906-1945):1920
Pre or post treaty, or both?Both
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question?2nd rate
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically?Modern Russia with Soviet union Geography
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers?Cool but badly armored
What do you think of German style battlecruisers?Poor man's battleships
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional:High Quality Steel and a tendancy to build large amounts of ships
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc):We have converted the old protected cruiser Askold to an Aircraft carrier.

by **Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient)** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:37 am

Jinos wrote:reposting to fix some stuff.

Time frame: 1922-1960
Pre or post treaty, or both? Exclusionary: Jinos was not a world power at the time the WNT was signed and wasn't included.
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question? 4th rank at the time of the WNT. 3rd rank at the beginning of WWII. 2nd rank by end of WWII.
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically? Mix of Russian and Japanese
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers? I think he came up with the idea of what a modern battlecruiser was.
What do you think of German style battlecruisers? Obsolete way of thinking. A battlecruiser shouldn't be a less armored battleship.
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional: superior technological advantage; better naval tacticians; superior torpedo technology
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional: lower quality parts due to rapid industrialization; poor armor welding measures sometimes lead to lower quality armor.
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional: Made less ships but with better specifications (lack of mass production played a part); tended to trade armor for speed and maneuverability
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built: Jinos was a newly emerging nation struggling to secure its position as a world power. The top priority at the time was to get a decent sized navy that could stand up to the IJN, as the fleet it had inherited from Russia was sorely lacking.
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc): All Jinos ships had to be outfitted with armored bows to withstand the natural ice flows that form during the winter; caused more mass in tonnage but eliminated the torpedo vulnerability most capital ships had at their bow.

You can take the *NAZI Chinese

by **Marcheria** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:06 am

Class Name:Royal-class
Displacement (standard):52,000 long tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please):9 x 18 in guns
6 × 6.1 in guns
12 × 5 in guns
20 30mm AA guns
3 SA-2 SAMs
4 Longbow-class early cruise missile launchers
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please):26in
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):All or nothing
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Nuclear with back up diesel
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A)Back up
Speed (in knots):29 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 1,000nmi on diesel, unlimited on nuclear power
Year in service:1957
Year last unit retired or sunk:2003
Number of units:6

by **Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient)** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:19 am

Time frame (max. 1906-1945):Present
Pre or post treaty, or both?Post Treaty
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question?4th rate
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically?Russia
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers?Good but explosive
What do you think of German style battlecruisers?Symbols of Imperialism
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional:Good quality armor and a fascination with nuclear reactors
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional:Meltdown prone
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional:Shallow Draught for use in the Baltic
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built:Kaliningrad is beggining to be involved in foreign affairs.Liberate the Jews in Palestine
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc):Regionnal prestige is important and showing of big guns is important.

by **United States of PA** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:01 am

Class Name: Berchtesgaden Class Fast Battleship
Displacement (standard): 53,751 tonnes
Primary Armament: Nine 16in L/52 Guns in Three Triple Turrets
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness: 15.35in at thickest point and angled at 20 Degrees
Armor Layout: All or Nothing
Powerplant Type: Oil Fired Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: Oil Fired
Speed (in knots): 33 knots max sustained, 35 knots achieved on Light Weight Trials
Endurance (in nmi): 7,559nmi
Year in service: 1941
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1963
Number of units: 8

List of Units
BB-45 Berchtesgaden, BB-46 Haguenau, BB-47 Foy, BB-48 Bastogne, BB-49 Eindhoven, BB-50 Nuenen, BB-51 Carentan, BB-52 Brecourt

Class Name: St. Mihiel Class Battlecruiser
Displacement (standard): 29,289 tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please): Nine 12inch L/52 Guns in Three Triple Turrets
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 9in
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): All or Nothing
Powerplant Type: Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: Oil Fired
Speed (in knots): 32 knots max sustained, 34 achieved on trials
Endurance (in nmi): 12,000nmi
Year in service: 1943
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1972
Number of units: 5

List of Units
CB-1 St Mihiel, CB-2 Meuse, CB-3 Argonne, CB-4 Vaucouleurs, CB-5 St-Juvin

by **Mount Shavano** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:06 am

Centropyge wrote:Well, after a long absence, here is a link to the design of my newest ship class, a modern battlecruiser with large-caliber main gun armament: http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Indefatigable-class_Battlecruiser

What's holding back my application to submit this, and some of my other ship classes, to All the World's Battleships is the fact that I still have to work out some of the armor details--which will likely affect weight estimates; 120,000 tons is sort of a placeholder--and decide whether to tweak the beam dimension given. I believe it is possible to achieve 50 knots in a PMT (think c. 2030-2100 A. D.) battlecruiser with a massive powerplant and long hull, but I want to make sure it's at least plausible before finally submitting this. Also going to decide whether to go with a bulbous bow (as pictured) or possibly something more like the American Freedom-class LCS's semi-planing bow. The Freedom class can make up to 45-50 knots.

I guess I figured I'd post that just as a heads up that I will make some submissions eventually...and also to see if any advice/criticism rolls in.

I don't know if it is plausible or not (warship speeds have essentially been static since the 30s), but it's more than plausible enough for NS, I think. I will note that I will certainly allow revisions to already submitted ships.

Greater Kaliningrad wrote:Please create a drawing of their appearance.

I'm no artist, but their appearance would probably closely resemble the Sovetsky Soyuz design.

Greater Kaliningrad's Japanese Battleship

The two Awa class (Awa and Kazusa) ships were Japan's answer to the new world-wide arms race that began in the late 30s. Coming later to the party than most, Japan's leaders cited massive ships such as Silver Dawn, Fatherland, Mota the Great, and Lohengrin in their justification for ignoring treaty limits.

The ships were a derivative of "Number 13 Battleship" from the old 8-8 plan. However, in light of developments in China, that design's high speed was reduced in exchange for improved armor. Displacement was 47,138 tons as built. The armament was a very heavy 8x18"/45; the secondary armament, while moderate in power, was made quite compact by making use of triple turrets. Torpedo protection and deck protection were both adequate but not outstanding; maneuverabilty disappointingly poor. Anti-Aircraft armament was typical for the time, but still inadequate. The ships were, however, very stable, even in rough seas. They were quite popular with sailors, due to the modern innovation of air conditioning.

Overall, they compared favorably with the Bismarck variants being built in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

GK's Chinese Battleship

When the Germans proposed building battleships in China to off-set Japanese naval power, the fascist government there jumped at the chance to increase their international prestige. Wanting to have "the world's best" battleship, the Chinese insisted on a 16" gunned variant of the Bismarck although without an increase in displacement. Overall, the new design improved the paper factors of the Bismarck, at the expense of hidden but equally important ones.

In addition to the increase in gun caliber, the armor belt and torpedo bulkheads were strengthed, and about an extra knot was squeezed out of the ship. Secondary and anti-aircraft armament was retained as per the orginal design. However, the new ships were top-heavy and rolled in bad weather. Additionally, the cruising speed was sharply reduced.

Lack of industry, lack of shipbuilding skill, and poor political management hampered the construction severely. Many parts had to be imported from Germany, often difficult and tensions rose. Most problematic of all, a year into the project the Chinese Chancellor demanded the ships be re-worked to have four shafts instead of three, essentially setting the project back by that year. The first ship (Dingyuan) was not operational until 1942, the second (Zhenyuan) 1944, and the third un-named unit was never finished.

I haven't done the other two because I'm not quite sure what you want for the first one and the second appears to have been filled in the other thread.

What do you think?

Jinos' 1922 Battlecruiser

The first capital ships of the Jinosian Navy, the two-ship "1922 Battlecruiser" project was intended to be a counterbalance to the Japanese Kongo class battleships; the counterweight to Ise and Fuso, the Quasar class, was a separate project.

Out of a desire to get the first ships into service quickly, the lead ship was built on the hull of the half-finished battlecruiser Izmail, inherited from Russia. However, the ship was significantly re-designed. The bow section was completely reconstructed to give it the structural strength to hold armor, and was given a backwards tilt to help with ice sheets - this gave the ship an archaic "ram bow" appearance. This did result in a wet ship forward.

The originally-intended but never built triple 14" turrets were replace with twin 15" designed to fit the same gunwells - the range advantage over the 14" Japanese battleline was considered important - but the Izmail design's secondary armament was retained. In the post-Jutland world protection obviously needed to be significantly increased, and was, although it was simply not possible to armor the hull to the same standards as contemporary battleships. Improved, oil-fired boilers beat Izmail's design speed by most of a knot, despite the additional weight of guns and armor.

The second ship, new construction to almost the same design (the position of the secondary armament was improved), was completed only shortly ater the first. In addition to unforseen problems improving the existing hull, the lead ship was slowed down by being Jinos' first foray into building large ships, and the attendant teething problems.

The design did what it was intended to do - outclass the Kongos - and had enough speed that with refits it could possibly have been useful into the 1940s.

What do you think?

by **Inutoland** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:52 am

Class Name:Dragon-class
Displacement (standard):59,000 tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please):12x427.5mm = 16⅞"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 332.5mm = 13.09"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A)Oil-fired
Speed (in knots):34 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,600 nmi at 18 knots
Year in service:1944
Year last unit retired or sunk: One unit still in service
Number of units:4

EDIT: Link to article

by **Inutoland** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:20 pm

<OOC: Heh, double post separated by almost a week. But this thread deserves to be bumped anyway.>

Class Name:Sloth of War-class
Displacement (standard):32,800 tonnes
Primary Armament (in inches, please):8x399mm = 15¾"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 304mm = 11.9"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A)Oil-fired
Speed (in knots):26 knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,000 nmi at 15 knots
Year in service:1924
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1944
Number of units:5

by **Marcheria** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:15 pm

Class Name:Shalom-class
Displacement (standard):25,000
Primary Armament (in inches, please):9x 15in smoothbore
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please):10 in
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):All-or-nothing
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc):Turbines
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Coal-fired
Speed (in knots): 27
Endurance (in nmi):8,000nmi at 18 knots
Year in service: 1918
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1930
Number of units: 7

by **Ataturkiye** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:40 am

Time frame (max. 1906-1945):1918
Pre or post treaty, or both?pre
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question? a 3 or 4
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically? German or Turkish
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers? I don't know
What do you think of German style battlecruisers? I approve
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional: skilled training schools, limited range required
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional: weak navy right now, imports many weapons
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional: sacrifices range for weapons and armour (if possible)
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built: a Turkish Republic spanning the Ottoman Empire's territory of pre-Balkans wars. As if the Central Powers had won WWI.
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc): no
Do you want a proposed design for a single class, or a sketch of all capital ship construction in the time frame in question? a battleship class, and a battlecruiser class
If a single class, BB or BC, and what displacement? BB around 28,000, BC around 23,000

Again, basically interested in possible warship classes as if the Central Powers won WWI and Turkey underwent a reform replacing the Ottomans but retaining their territory (plus Egypt). They could be made overseas (by NS nations if your country makes ships for foreigners).

by **Mount Shavano** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:02 pm

Salient points on the battleship design:
*Ordered from Germany, using some components left over from the unfinished units of the Mackensen class.
*13.8" gun selected for main armament (4x2). Since immediate rivals Russia, Austria-Hungary, and Italy possess only 12" gunned battleships, no need is seen to match the 15" and 16" giants building in the UK, US, Japan, and Germany.
*The demonstrated effectiveness during WWI of light craft in narrow waters led the design team to provisions for an extremely heavy secondary armament.
*The armor belt and internal subdivision are both excellent, but deck armor somewhat inadequate - a typical German armor scheme.
*Speed is a relatively low 21 knots, and range is a very low 3,000 nmi. Both of these were to save weight for use elsewhere.
*This class would probably run two or three units.
*Coal burning rather than oil burning - still seen as more reliable at this point.
*Not really a design feature so much as an accident, but the hull form is equally-well suited to a much higher speed. This could turn out to be useful if the ships are refitted and see service in WWII.

Sorry for short summaries, but I have a lot more demands on my time than a month ago.

Salient points on the battlecruiser design:
*Likewise ordered from German yards, probably a year or two after the battleships.
*Main armament 6x12". Underwhelming for a capital ship of 1918, but the rest of the ship makes up for it.
*Main belt fully equivalent to the battleship design. Turret and deck armor somewhat weaker, but still a very tough ship for the displacement.
*Cruising speed and range relatively low, but tactical speed an excellent 30 knots.
*Excellent gun platform, acceptable seaboat. Engine compartments somewhat cramped.

by **Useful Daveia** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:25 pm

Time frame (max. 1906-1945): 37
Pre or post treaty, or both? Post
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question? 1st
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically? German, with Atlantic bows of course.
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers? Seductive in the original concept, yet lost the moment they're committed to a direct fleet engagement. They've got the guns and the speed, but far too little survivability.
What do you think of German style battlecruisers? 'Pocket Battleships', it's such a cute lil' name isn't it? Although they are a tad undergunned, they don't spontaneously explode like Fishers.
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional: Exceptional fire-control/director systems, well-drilled damage control teams, N3PB-esque seaplane/catapult, vessels are designed for endurance.
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional: No guns above 15 inches, leaning towards overstretched in terms of deployments, lack of spare parts in the outer colonies, limited battleship/cruiser hulls.
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional: Extended endurance at the cost of space aboard vessels, seaplane hangar/catapult aboard wouldn't help in terms of space either.
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built: The Altrienian Empire is the forerunner to the Administratum, the 40s are the swan song of it's existance, steadily winding down as the colonies begin to realise that the lion is busy elsewhere, with other powers looking too take their own slice. As such, the battleships of the day don't just have to travel the length of the Empire to defend their charges, but also face off against multiple vessels. In addition to this, the conversion of hulls to aircraft carriers has stripped the Alrienian Royal Navy of the traditional battlecruisers which would normally serve the commerce raiding roles.
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc): Subcontinent island nation, thus the Navy is the first line of defence, however with the budget split between aircraft carriers and traditional gun-ships, they can't buy or build nearly as many of the old gunners as they might like too. As such, this singular-class is going to turn out to be the primary gun-based capital ship in the Navy 'till the Altrienian Empire reforms into the Administratum in 1947.
Suggested Name Scheme: The Altrienian Empire, as might be expected from one with such a wide reach and position, did have a rather lofty opinion of itself. Thus, the given to the vessels were a mixture of those from various mythological backgrounds within the population. Members of the Nyx-class included... Nyx, Taranis, Toutatis, Koschei, Svarog, Nemesis, Erinyes, Morrigan and Bukavac.

Additional Fluffy Information: Capital of the Atrienian Empire, Nyx. Sub-continental name, Heartland. Mythological background is a whirlpool blended infusion of Greek, Celtic and Slavic melted together by time and peace. Head of state at the time was Queen Irene the Second, and ship's cats are plentiful. :3

I've been trying to draw up ideas for the modern Regional Navy, and setting up a few things for the ol' Royal Navy prievious too it could serve as points of reference and something to extend traditions/battle honours et al from.

by **Galla-** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:55 pm

Class Name: Tulip-class (1980s refit)

Displacement (standard): 47,000 tons, 60,000 tons full load

Primary Armament (in inches, please): 12x 16"/50 Mark 7 guns, 8x 5"/38 Mark 12 guns, 48x BGM-109 TLAMs, 8x RGM-84 Harpoon AShMs; 4x 35mm Oerlikon Millennium CIWS; 2x 11-cell RIM-116 RAM CIWS

Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 12"

Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): All or nothing

Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): 8x General Electric LM-2500 gas turbines

Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Diesel

Speed (in knots): 32 knots maximum

Endurance (in nmi): 21,000 km

Year in service: 1940, 1957, 1965, 1981

Year last unit retired or sunk: N/A

Number of units: 2

by **Mount Shavano** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:18 pm

Want to note that I have seen the new posts, but it may be some time before I can get to them, due to increased demands on my time now school has restarted.

MS

by **Radictistan** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:32 pm

When you have time, could you update my entry for the Norucstsur-class to reflect my retcon towards a 13" belt?

by **Caturdays** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:14 am

Class Name: Buckura Class Heavy Battleship
Displacement (standard): 70,000 Long Tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9x 16 inch/50 cal Mark 8 Guns, 12x 5 inch/54 cal Mark 16 guns, 30x BGM-109 Tomahawk Cruise Missile
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): Side Belt-18 inches, Lower Side Belt-10 inches, Bulkheads-22 Inches Forward and 16 inches Rear, Turrets-28 Inches, Decks-12 Inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): All-ir-Nothing
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Main Powerplant is the Georgetown B2G Nuclear Reactor. The back powerplant is a Diesel.
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Backup is Deisel
Speed (in knots): 27 Knots
Endurance (in nmi):1,050 Nautical Miles on Diesel, Limited by only food on Nuclear.
Year in service: 2003-Present Currently Active
Year last unit retired or sunk: Unit is currently Active
Number of units: 21

by **Altaiire** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:47 am

Class Name: Judicator-class Battleship
Displacement (standard): 45,000 tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please):9× 3.5 inch Railguns*
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): Belt: 13 in
Armor Layout: All or Nothing
Powerplant Type: Turbines
Speed (in knots): 30 knots
Range (in nmi): 12,940 nautical miles
Year in service: 2021-present
Year last unit retired or sunk: In service
Number of units: 10

*the Judicator's railguns fire 7 pound projectiles at a muzzle velocity over 5,800 m/s (Mach 17), accurate enough to hit a 5 meter target over 200 nmi (370 km) away while firing ten shots per minute. The kinetic energy of these rounds far surpass the energy yield of much heavier and larger explosive rounds.

by **New York - New Jersey** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:10 am

ANS New Jersey BB-62

The flagship/largest ship in the Allied navy is the ANS New Jersey BB-62. It was reactivated in 2061 to defend the recently declared independent New Jersey from the United States as well as potential attack's by China or any other countries and recently independent states. A modern sister ship yet to be named is in production based on the original design.

Class Name: New Jersey-Class Battleship (formerly Iowa-Class Battleship)
Displacement (standard): 45,000 tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 9x16 inches
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 12.1 inches
Armor Layout: All-or-Nothing
Powerplant Type: Steam Turbine
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) Distillate Fuel Oil
Speed (in knots): 33 Knots
Endurance (in nmi): 23,960 km @ 15 Knots
Year in service: Commissioned May 23, 1943
Year last unit retired or sunk: In Service
Number of units: 1 in service, 1 in production

by **Southern Patriots** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Interesting to see how many try to keep battleships in the modern era.

by **United States of PA** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:05 pm

Southern Patriots wrote:Interesting to see how many try to keep battleships in the modern era.

Shore bombardment.

by **Marcheria** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:13 pm

Class Name:Stern-class battlecruiser
Displacement (standard): 34,000 long tons
Primary Armament (in inches, please):3x3 12 inch guns, 6x2 5 inch guns, 60-cell VLS
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 6.5in
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Nuclear
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) N/A
Speed (in knots): 38.3 kts
Endurance (in nmi): Unlimited
Year in service: 2001-present
Year last unit retired or sunk:N/A
Number of units:16

by **Sigvardia** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:40 pm

Time frame (max. 1906-1945): 1937
Pre or post treaty, or both? Not part of any treaty.
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question? 4th rank
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically? German.
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers? I do not know enough about them.
What do you think of German style battlecruisers? Nice concept.
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional: Copious high quality steel, experienced sailors and long naval tradition
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional: Rather conservative officers.
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional: They traded endurance for survivability.
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built: A prosperous island kingdom in the atlantic with a few small colonies, the objectives at the time were to be prepared against an invasion of mainland Sigvardia by the allies and/or Germany.
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc): Converted to specialized command-and-control ships after the seventies.
Do you want a proposed design for a single class, or a sketch of all capital ship construction in the time frame in question? Single class
If a single class, BB or BC, and what displacement? BB, 4,6000 tons standard

by **Mount Shavano** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:24 pm

Useful Daveia wrote:Time frame (max. 1906-1945): 37
Pre or post treaty, or both? Post
How significant a naval power was your nation in the time frame in question? 1st
Which RL nation's would your ships most resemble aesthetically? German, with Atlantic bows of course.
What do you think of Fisher style battlecruisers? Seductive in the original concept, yet lost the moment they're committed to a direct fleet engagement. They've got the guns and the speed, but far too little survivability.
What do you think of German style battlecruisers? 'Pocket Battleships', it's such a cute lil' name isn't it? Although they are a tad undergunned, they don't spontaneously explode like Fishers.
List some strengths of your navy (e.g. high quality armor steel) - optional: Exceptional fire-control/director systems, well-drilled damage control teams, N3PB-esque seaplane/catapult, vessels are designed for endurance.
List some weaknesses of your navy (e.g. unreliable engines) - optional: No guns above 15 inches, leaning towards overstretched in terms of deployments, lack of spare parts in the outer colonies, limited battleship/cruiser hulls.
List some "trade-offs" your navy made (e.g. lower speed for better maneuverability) - optional: Extended endurance at the cost of space aboard vessels, seaplane hangar/catapult aboard wouldn't help in terms of space either.
Give an overview of your nation's geopolitical position & objectives at the time the ships are being designed and built: The Altrienian Empire is the forerunner to the Administratum, the 40s are the swan song of it's existance, steadily winding down as the colonies begin to realise that the lion is busy elsewhere, with other powers looking too take their own slice. As such, the battleships of the day don't just have to travel the length of the Empire to defend their charges, but also face off against multiple vessels. In addition to this, the conversion of hulls to aircraft carriers has stripped the Alrienian Royal Navy of the traditional battlecruisers which would normally serve the commerce raiding roles.
Any other relevant factors (budget constraints, canal widths, etc): Subcontinent island nation, thus the Navy is the first line of defence, however with the budget split between aircraft carriers and traditional gun-ships, they can't buy or build nearly as many of the old gunners as they might like too. As such, this singular-class is going to turn out to be the primary gun-based capital ship in the Navy 'till the Altrienian Empire reforms into the Administratum in 1947.
Suggested Name Scheme: The Altrienian Empire, as might be expected from one with such a wide reach and position, did have a rather lofty opinion of itself. Thus, the given to the vessels were a mixture of those from various mythological backgrounds within the population. Members of the Nyx-class included... Nyx, Taranis, Toutatis, Koschei, Svarog, Nemesis, Erinyes, Morrigan and Bukavac.

Additional Fluffy Information: Capital of the Atrienian Empire, Nyx. Sub-continental name, Heartland. Mythological background is a whirlpool blended infusion of Greek, Celtic and Slavic melted together by time and peace. Head of state at the time was Queen Irene the Second, and ship's cats are plentiful. :3

I've been trying to draw up ideas for the modern Regional Navy, and setting up a few things for the ol' Royal Navy prievious too it could serve as points of reference and something to extend traditions/battle honours et al from.

(As always, consider this a draft and suggest any revisions you want. Ship will be added to chart after revised as needed and approved by you.)

During the late 1930s the unraveling of the Atrienian Empire had begun but had yet begun to make serious inroads on that nation's defense budget, nor hampered her desire to retain her increasingly restive colonies. The Nyx class design was her answer to the resumption in world-wide battleship building in the late 1930s.

The designers needed to stretch the ship as far as possible in terms of both role and endurance, and most inhabitants of the former Empire would argue that they did their job quite admirably.

The ships were designed around a standard, middle of the road primary armament of 8x15"/50 in four twin turrets, two each fore and aft. This was a development of an old, reliable gun model to increase range, rate of fire, and accuracy. Although outgunned by many of their contemporaries, the Nyx class had an enviable reputation for barrel life and dependability.

The secondary armament, over the objections over many senior admirals, was a relatively light 4.9" dual purpose weapon. While conventional thinking held that the longer range of 6" weapons was necessary to deter destroyer attacks and smaller, faster firing weapons were necessary to deal with aircraft, the improved range of the modern 4.9", helped offset the first concern, and of course D.P. weapons proved quite effective against aircraft.

The speed was a relatively pedestrian 27 knots (and the trials crew might have been rounding to get even that figure) but the ship's range was excellent, which was seen as far more important in defending a wide ranging empire or raiding enemy shipping - after all, warships rarely require 30 knots to catch a merchantman. Time on station was considered far more important.

Where the class shone the most was in protection. An excellent 42% of their weight was devoted to protection; the belt thickness was a very solid 15.3", and its coverage was excellent. Torpedo protection was very solid, and although the deck armor was a little deficient in the original design that was more than corrected when the treaty limits on weight were relaxed - only the class ship required a refit to reach this new standard, and that was promptly received.

(As always, consider this a draft and suggest any revisions you want. Ship will be added to chart after revised as needed and approved by you.)

While the island nation of Sigvardia had a long and proud naval tradition, like many others in the same position it found itself falling behind the great industrial powers as the prime determinant of naval power became industrial might and not familiarity with the sea. A moderate sized, well trained navy was maintained until the mid-30s, when a worldwide naval arms race brought concerns of foreign invasion to the island's shores.

Accordingly, she elected to re-enter the battleship game (likely for the first time since the early 1910s). The design ultimately selected was intended to fulfill the duty of coast defense - fighting a surface action against an unspecified opponent close to friendly shores. Accordingly, the ship was large, heavily armed, and heavily protected, but short ranged and of only typical-for-the-genre tactical speed.

The main battery was 8x16.14" (410 mm, to be precise) laid out in traditional Germanic fashion with a pair of twin turrets forward and a pair aft. This was seen as optimal to minimize the potential damage from loss of a single turret, although 10x15" was also considered. The secondary armament was split between 6.1" anti-surface weapons and 2.9" anti-air; the split battery was seen as possible due to the deck space and weight available and desirable due to the heavy 6.1" being optimal for engaging light enemy units but too heavy for anti-air work - it was assumed that the latter was not going to be overly important, since the ships were expected to be in home waters and have air cover.

Armor protection was extremely heavy, with a long, thick belt, strong torpedo bulkheads, and thick deck armor. While a rule of thumb in most navies was that a ship should be able to match her own guns with her armor, the Sigvardian ships would likely have found themselves quite well protected against even their own heavy artillery had they ever faced it.

Speed was a nondescript 28 knots; strategic speed was underwhelming, but not so bad as to be useless. Range was 8,000 nmi, and considered the ship's weaknesses.

Note: Given your position/naval rank these ships were likely ordered from abroad. Germany is your best bet if you use and IRL nation; if you want to use an NS state there are several candidates.

Stat summaries for both units from SpringSharp

All the World's Dreadnoughts

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