Battlecruiser?
That ship is about the same size and armament of a light cruiser.
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by Jinos » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:22 am
by Sciox » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:32 am
by Jinos » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:25 am
by Sciox » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:29 am
by The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:54 am
Sciox wrote:Jinos wrote:
Considering the firepower and defenses of an Iowa? No.
Also, Arleigh Burke is still a destroyer, even if a big one.
I said the Arleigh Burke was a destroyer. My point was that in modern naval combat guns, armour and a heavy displacement aren't everything. If an Arleigh Burke and an Iowa went two to two the Arleigh Burke would come out on top simply by spamming missiles from far beyond the range of the Iowa's guns.
by Mount Shavano » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:26 pm
by Jinos » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:23 pm
Sciox wrote:Jinos wrote:
Considering the firepower and defenses of an Iowa? No.
Also, Arleigh Burke is still a destroyer, even if a big one.
I said the Arleigh Burke was a destroyer. My point was that in modern naval combat guns, armour and a heavy displacement aren't everything. If an Arleigh Burke and an Iowa went two to two the Arleigh Burke would come out on top simply by spamming missiles from far beyond the range of the Iowa's guns.
by Inutoland » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:56 pm
Mount Shavano wrote:Back in town, and so the table has been accordingly updated and bumped.
Sciox, I'm leaning towards not including the Pegasus in the table. Not because it's not a good design (and good art too. Do it yourself?), or because it's not a battlecruiser (In the modern world, I'm not really inclined to with how any government chooses to sub-classify its cruisers!), but because up until this point my criteria for including or not including ships has been whether the primary armament is guns or missiles, and Pegasus appears to be a missile boat, first and foremost. If I am wrong, I will revise the table to include her.
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:58 am
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:12 am
by Chinese Regions » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:17 am
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:33 am
Chinese Regions wrote:Class Name:Sun Zhong-Shan Class
Displacement (standard):101,400 long tons (It is an Aircraft Carrier)
Primary Armament (in inches, please): 2 20"
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness (in inches, please): 15"
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing or Incremental):Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbo-electric
Oil fired, coal fired, or mixed: (ignore if N/A) n/a
Speed (in knots): 32 Knots
Endurance (in nmi): 10,000 at 15 knots
Year in service: 2020
Year last unit retired or sunk: In service
Number of units: 2
by Cyborg Holland » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:15 am
by Mount Shavano » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:08 am
by Hippostania » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:26 am
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:17 pm
Mount Shavano wrote:
When the Washington Treaty began collapsing in in the mid-1930s, a new wave of battleship construction began worldwide. The government of Greater Kaliningrad was no exception; at around the time the Bismarcks were laid down in Germany and the Italias in Italy, she also began design work for a new class of ships.
The initial order and design reviews were delayed almost two full months by a debate between the senior admirals and the government that would be funding the ships; the initial government proposal had been for a ship of 35,000 tons mounting 15" guns to match the latest German, Italian, and Chinese battleships, while avoid the massive costs and potential arms race a larger design might bring on. The admirals, for their part, held that this design was not powerful enough, on paper, to give Greater Kaliningrad the international prestige they also wanted from the project, or even to provide a superior fighting unit to some of the 1920 vintage battleships still in the Confederacy's arsenal. Ultimately, the 16" proposal won out, although some insist to this day that the deciding factor wasn't the admirals insistence on trumping their own elderly ships, but rather that the firms with the most experience with 15" were in fascist Germany and potentially fascist Italy, while 16" design work would instead best be conducted by firms in the less hostile F.R.R. or Harberian Empire.
The increase in caliber to 16" also necessitated an increase in the displacement of the ship. The government was not too concerned about this, despite treaty obligations limiting ships to 35,000 tons. Words on paper were, of course, of less import than national security - a stance that also applied to patent law, as we shall see. The final design was 44,500 tons (although the Confederacy did not admit to a standard displacement greater than 35,000 for years), and carried nine 16" guns in two triples superfiring forward, and another aft. The influence of an Italian design submitted but not accepted could be seen in the raised aft turret. The armor scheme chosen harkened back to the lessons of Tsushima, with a relatively thin belt covering nearly the entire ship. This was in direct contrast to the All-or-Nothing policy adopted by most of the world's major navies after Jutland; Greater Kaliningrad, however, rejected the "armored raft" as dangerously inadequate. There was a also a heavy emphasis on deck armor to protect against long range fire; while its usefulness against shellfire is debatable, it proved most fortuitous when the dive bomber came into its own. The design had a relatively slow 26 knot speed, as more was not seen as necessary for the narrow waters of the Baltic and Black Seas. The peculiarities of those seas drove several other design decisions; first, a relatively shallow draft. This was a boon for ships that might be fighting in the Skagerrak, but impended their seaworthiness and stability in heavy weather. Second, the confined seas were seen as making ships especially vulnerable to destroyer torpedo attack; accordingly, the secondary armament of 24x6" (a design gifted by GK's Japanese allies) was very heavy, although the selection of the longer ranged 6" over the more versatile 5" forced the inclusion of a separate anti-air armament, of less strength than it might have been. Finally, torpedo protection was excellent.
The three ships in the class were all completed to slightly different designs. The Sevastopol ship was armed with 16"/45 guns left over from a cancelled unit of the 1920 class, allowing her to be the first completed. She likely would have beaten the lead Bismarcks and Italias into service had it not been for delays in procuring her armor. The Kaliningrad ship was armed with 16"/50 guns ordered from Navato Naval Construction in the Front Range; these were the same type as those carried by the Silver Dawn. She was about 1,000 tons heavier than her sisters, due to the thick face armor on the turrets, and had even more trouble with rough seas. The St. Petersburg battleship, the last to be completed, used Confederacy-built 16"/50s, which were probably better for use in this class than the heavier Front Range guns. All three ships used GK manufactured armor, made to the same formula as the high-quality Krupp steel protecting Bismarck and Tirpitz. Exactly how this formula was acquired is still a state secret.
What do you think?
by Mount Shavano » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:46 pm
Greater Kaliningrad wrote:Ok,but state what are the Newest Chinese Battleships and the ship's carrers
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:28 pm
by Neo-axis Zeon » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:11 pm
by Useful Daveia » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:17 pm
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:14 pm
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:29 pm
Mount Shavano wrote:
When the Washington Treaty began collapsing in in the mid-1930s, a new wave of battleship construction began worldwide. The government of Greater Kaliningrad was no exception; at around the time the Bismarcks were laid down in Germany and the Italias in Italy, she also began design work for a new class of ships.
The initial order and design reviews were delayed almost two full months by a debate between the senior admirals and the government that would be funding the ships; the initial government proposal had been for a ship of 35,000 tons mounting 15" guns to match the latest German, Italian, and Chinese battleships, while avoid the massive costs and potential arms race a larger design might bring on. The admirals, for their part, held that this design was not powerful enough, on paper, to give Greater Kaliningrad the international prestige they also wanted from the project, or even to provide a superior fighting unit to some of the 1920 vintage battleships still in the Confederacy's arsenal. Ultimately, the 16" proposal won out, although some insist to this day that the deciding factor wasn't the admirals insistence on trumping their own elderly ships, but rather that the firms with the most experience with 15" were in fascist Germany and potentially fascist Italy, while 16" design work would instead best be conducted by firms in the less hostile F.R.R. or Harberian Empire.
The increase in caliber to 16" also necessitated an increase in the displacement of the ship. The government was not too concerned about this, despite treaty obligations limiting ships to 35,000 tons. Words on paper were, of course, of less import than national security - a stance that also applied to patent law, as we shall see. The final design was 44,500 tons (although the Confederacy did not admit to a standard displacement greater than 35,000 for years), and carried nine 16" guns in two triples superfiring forward, and another aft. The influence of an Italian design submitted but not accepted could be seen in the raised aft turret. The armor scheme chosen harkened back to the lessons of Tsushima, with a relatively thin belt covering nearly the entire ship. This was in direct contrast to the All-or-Nothing policy adopted by most of the world's major navies after Jutland; Greater Kaliningrad, however, rejected the "armored raft" as dangerously inadequate. There was a also a heavy emphasis on deck armor to protect against long range fire; while its usefulness against shellfire is debatable, it proved most fortuitous when the dive bomber came into its own. The design had a relatively slow 26 knot speed, as more was not seen as necessary for the narrow waters of the Baltic and Black Seas. The peculiarities of those seas drove several other design decisions; first, a relatively shallow draft. This was a boon for ships that might be fighting in the Skagerrak, but impended their seaworthiness and stability in heavy weather. Second, the confined seas were seen as making ships especially vulnerable to destroyer torpedo attack; accordingly, the secondary armament of 24x6" (a design gifted by GK's Japanese allies) was very heavy, although the selection of the longer ranged 6" over the more versatile 5" forced the inclusion of a separate anti-air armament, of less strength than it might have been. Finally, torpedo protection was excellent.
The three ships in the class were all completed to slightly different designs. The Sevastopol ship was armed with 16"/45 guns left over from a cancelled unit of the 1920 class, allowing her to be the first completed. She likely would have beaten the lead Bismarcks and Italias into service had it not been for delays in procuring her armor. The Kaliningrad ship was armed with 16"/50 guns ordered from Navato Naval Construction in the Front Range; these were the same type as those carried by the Silver Dawn. She was about 1,000 tons heavier than her sisters, due to the thick face armor on the turrets, and had even more trouble with rough seas. The St. Petersburg battleship, the last to be completed, used Confederacy-built 16"/50s, which were probably better for use in this class than the heavier Front Range guns. All three ships used GK manufactured armor, made to the same formula as the high-quality Krupp steel protecting Bismarck and Tirpitz. Exactly how this formula was acquired is still a state secret.
What do you think?
by Costa Fiero » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:35 am
by Greater Kaliningrad (Ancient) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:38 am
by Centropyge » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:24 am
Also going to decide whether to go with a bulbous bow (as pictured) or possibly something more like the American Freedom-class LCS's semi-planing bow. The Freedom class can make up to 45-50 knots.Return to Factbooks and National Information
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