Main Military Weapon of Your Country (Mk. IV) The Proper Un

[Svormannhelm]

The extractor is a spring-loaded arm on the bolt face that grips the cartridge rim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kgnh4neVaY&t=10m38s
Glorious video is glorious - shows how triggers and loading works.

Note that the link is for 10:38, but each time you F5, it just goes about 10 seconds back from where it last loaded.

I know that. The question is, how does it move without making the cartridge hit the ejector (thinking AK style) before it goes into the chamber?

And no comments on the FGR-AK mix?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The extractor can be seen properly from 19:52 onwards.

It doesn't eject rounds undergoing loading because they aren't free to pivot on the ejector for long enough for the spring to expand again. By the time the spring even can expand, it's being forced to remain compressed because the round it now seated within the chamber.

As for the AK FGR, looks quite cool, but the long handguard with the short protruding barrel makes it look like a carbine. Unless it is one.
I also have a thing (which may well be baseless) where I believe that gas ports right at the muzzle are ineffective for a variety of possible reasons.

[Svormannhelm]

The extractor can be seen properly from 19:52 onwards.

It doesn't eject rounds undergoing loading because they aren't free to pivot on the ejector for long enough for the spring to expand again. By the time the spring even can expand, it's being forced to remain compressed because the round it now seated within the chamber.

As for the AK FGR, looks quite cool, but the long handguard with the short protruding barrel makes it look like a carbine. Unless it is one.
I also have a thing (which may well be baseless) where I believe that gas ports right at the muzzle are ineffective for a variety of possible reasons.

That's not a gas port. It uses BARS System.

And the barrel's as long as an AK-107 barrel, I can't see the problem.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The extractor can be seen properly from 19:52 onwards.

It doesn't eject rounds undergoing loading because they aren't free to pivot on the ejector for long enough for the spring to expand again. By the time the spring even can expand, it's being forced to remain compressed because the round it now seated within the chamber.

As for the AK FGR, looks quite cool, but the long handguard with the short protruding barrel makes it look like a carbine. Unless it is one.
I also have a thing (which may well be baseless) where I believe that gas ports right at the muzzle are ineffective for a variety of possible reasons.

That's not a gas port. It uses BARS System.

And the barrel's as long as an AK-107 barrel, I can't see the problem.

Short protruding barrel as in not much beyond the handguard. Makes it look like an AK-74u. And fair enough on the BARS.

[Fischermann]

That's not a gas port. It uses BARS System.

And the barrel's as long as an AK-107 barrel, I can't see the problem.

Short protruding barrel as in not much beyond the handguard. Makes it look like an AK-74u. And fair enough on the BARS.

Better?

[Amastol]

I don't see much FGR in it.

[Svormannhelm]

I don't see much FGR in it.

It's more AK than FGR. It's essentially an AK mocked up to look like a FGR.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

SA-AR-3 update.
Added fire selector and magazine, minute tweaks to the muzzle brake. Straight magazine because trying to draw a curve was irritating me, and couldn't be bothered - chambered in my 5.45x45mm Samozniy cartridge.
(Image)

Had a thought - the pistol grip/foregrip module is supposed to be removable, to aid maintenance. I was planning on having two handguards, the one shown above and a 'plain' RIS handguard, just a box around the barrel and gas cylinder plug with RIS on its four sides.

I was originally considering to have underbarrels like GLs and shotguns to be mounted on this RIS variant like they normally would, and the foregrip acts as an impromptu pistol grip for them.
Would it have any technical/tactical merit for the underbarrels to be directly attached to the pistol grip/foregrip module, and interchanged that way? You would have the 'rifleman' form as above, a 'marksman' form where the foregrip holds a bipod like the 'gripod' on SA80 rifles, and then a shotgun/GL form with the underbarrel directly integrated into the system. Might whip up a quick image to help illustrate. Basically, imagine a Vepr with a Tishina attached, and the Tishina, grip and all, is a part of the rifle's pistol grip.

lolcack image to show what I mean.

Seeing how this turned out, I might just go conventional and use the foregrip as an impromptu pistol grip, as I originally planned.

[Faolinn]

Modern
Main Rifle: TAR 21 (trained with the AK as well)
Handgun: Colt .45 model 1911
Sniper rifle: PSG1
SMG: MP7
Missle launcher: RPG7
Combat knife: KA-BAR/ Traditional dirk
Light machine gun: FN Minimi

[Samozaryadnyastan]

So, you have your main rifle and your LMG share ammunition. That's good, that's modern doctrine in an infantry squad. Your PDW weapon, whilst excellent in its role, has very special ammunition which is not fantastically common in RL usage, nor can it share ammunition with your pistol which is powerful, yet old and not as good all-round as modern, lower-calibre systems.
Your rocket launcher is also very old, and far surpassed not just by other contemporary systems, but also in its own product line. I would suggest an RPG-29, as an upgrade and maybe something more in line with the AT-4 M136.

Your sniper system uses yet another kind of ammunition, yet this isn't a huge issue. However, I would recommend a system chambered in a heavier sniper cartridge such as .308 or .338 - the PSG1 is used almost exclusively by police and other law enforcement agencies around the world - meaning its main plus point is short-range accuracy, which is fine in a squad-level support weapon as a DMR, but a heavier, dedicated SRS would be better as a main sniper rifle.

[TTTA]

While I maintain a proportionally large standing army, I have chosen to invest a large chunk of the defense budget in space-based weapons. As such, the first weapon I reach for in an engagement is my orbital kinetic bombardment system. Chunks of tungsten the size of a telephone pole (or smaller, if collateral damage is an issue) are dropped from LEO, reaching speeds in excess of Mach 10. They hit with the force of a tactical nuke, completely unrivaled bunker-busting capabilities, and no radioactive fallout (though some highly toxic tungsten compounds may find their way into the local water supply). I've been accused of god-modding in the past for using (or attempting to use) this technology , but the idea has been around since the 60's, and hasn't been implemented only because of the political ramifications of possessing the technology to summarily execute anyone on the planet with little to no warning. If you doubt me, google "kinetic bombardment."

As for my standard grunts, they employ the AK-74, DMR roles employ the SCAR-H, and snipers use the CheyTac Intervention .408.

[Crookfur]

So, you have your main rifle and your LMG share ammunition. That's good, that's modern doctrine in an infantry squad. Your PDW weapon, whilst excellent in its role, has very special ammunition which is not fantastically common in RL usage, nor can it share ammunition with your pistol which is powerful, yet old and not as good all-round as modern, lower-calibre systems.
Your rocket launcher is also very old, and far surpassed not just by other contemporary systems, but also in its own product line. I would suggest an RPG-29, as an upgrade and maybe something more in line with the AT-4 M136.

Your sniper system uses yet another kind of ammunition, yet this isn't a huge issue. However, I would recommend a system chambered in a heavier sniper cartridge such as .308 or .338 - the PSG1 is used almost exclusively by police and other law enforcement agencies around the world - meaning its main plus point is short-range accuracy, which is fine in a squad-level support weapon as a DMR, but a heavier, dedicated SRS would be better as a main sniper rifle.

A fair bit of nonse here I have to say.

Fair comment on the SMG btu to be hoenst there is nothign what so ever wrong with the 1911. The 1911 alogn with the .45 ACP roudns is well rpoven package and argueably does the job just as well as some kind of wonder 9.

The RPG-7 offers unrivaled versatility and perfromance for its class and it has no possible direct repacements, these closest repalcement would be the M3 model of the carl gustav but even its a bit too heavy. Neither the RPG-29 or the AT4 are repalcements. The RPG-29 is a big heavy system that lends itself to fire support squads rather than being part of a infantry section/squad. The likes of the AT4 and the various russian disposable launchers are things you would have to supplement the RPG-7.

The PSG-1 is chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO, and it does have a fairly wide military user base it just tends to be a bit expensive and repudely a little fragile, hence the cheaper and strong MSG-90. Yes today a bolt action .338 lapua is the ideal solution but that doesn't the vast majority of military snipers from using 7.62mm rifles of various flavours.

[Crookfur]

While I maintain a proportionally large standing army, I have chosen to invest a large chunk of the defense budget in space-based weapons. As such, the first weapon I reach for in an engagement is my orbital kinetic bombardment system. Chunks of tungsten the size of a telephone pole (or smaller, if collateral damage is an issue) are dropped from LEO, reaching speeds in excess of Mach 10. They hit with the force of a tactical nuke, completely unrivaled bunker-busting capabilities, and no radioactive fallout (though some highly toxic tungsten compounds may find their way into the local water supply). I've been accused of god-modding in the past for using (or attempting to use) this technology , but the idea has been around since the 60's, and hasn't been implemented only because of the political ramifications of possessing the technology to summarily execute anyone on the planet with little to no warning. If you doubt me, google "kinetic bombardment."

As for my standard grunts, they employ the AK-74, DMR roles employ the SCAR-H, and snipers use the CheyTac Intervention .408.

There are very good reasons why orbital kinetics aren't used today:

The astronomical cost ( you are talking $10,000 plus for each kg of stuff you want to put into space)

The limted terminal effects (yes they penetrate well but they don't really do much else)

The inabiliy to hit moving targets.

Orbital kinetic stuff has a limited role in htting deeply buried fixed positions and even in that role an ICBM likely still does the job cheaper and better.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

It's been discussed either earlier in this thread or the previous iteration, but a Rod From God is actually of significantly lower power than people think. It'll either shatter on impact, or penetrate and nothing else. No nuke-like detonation from the energy transfer.

SCAR-H is an automatic rifle with a short barrel, if you want a DMR use an M21, M14, or anything with a barrel length of >20 inches. Weapons designed for single-shot roles like being a DMR are typically much more accurate than automatic weapons used in single fire.

@Crook, so far as we're aware, these are the heaviest sniper systems and anti-armour systems he fields.
The RPG-7, we know cannot compete against modern MBTs, as both a Challenger 2 and an Abrams have been pinned in Iraq by insurgents and M/F killed, but the tanks were not destroyed and their crews unharmed. I believe it was the Abrams that took 40 RPG hits, without penetration. The RPG, so far as I'm aware, has no guided warheads, and offers only a single-stage HEAT warhead which is practically useless against ERA or standoff armour. It also has a limited range, and limited accuracy at that range. In the modern combat theatre, it's more effective as anti-infantry support than dedicated anti-tank which can go to much heavier dual-tandem (or even triple tandem, if those exist in man-portable systems) and/or guided AT systems that can engage accurately at far greater range.

The PSG1 firing 7.62 NATO is easily outclassed by a heavier sniper weapon in .308 or .338 or one of the oodles of NS armies fielding the even heavier .408 and .50 rounds as mainline sniper rounds. A .338 rifle in the hands of a God-tier sniper can score a kill at almost two and a half kilometres, well beyond its intended range. I'm not certain a 7.62NATO can actually reach that distance, let alone still have the energy to score a kill.
Plus, as implied by the name itself (German for precision shooting rifle) it's aimed at the law enforcement market. Like you said, the MSG-90 is much more in line with military interests - but I wouldn't consider a 7.62 NATO for a sniper round.

As for the M1911, yes it works fine and its .45 round packs a heavy punch - but it has a 7-round capacity, low range, and .45 has quite a kickback. The M9 fires a perfectly powerful 9mm round with little recoil, in a 16-round magazine. It's also, IIRC, smaller and lighter. As an all-rounder, it becomes a better weapon.

[Senestrum]

The astronomical cost ( you are talking $10,000 plus for each kg of stuff you want to put into space)

Now now Crookfur, modern launch systems can cost as little as 2500-3000 dollars per kilogram.

Not like it really makes much difference.

[Ea90]

Not really. Ea90's RPK barrel in a Vepr is an exception really, most bullpup conversions just move the trigger group and put a stock on the receiver, not altering the barrel.

Yay, I'm special!
Also, Dai Han, please can you do the LMG discussed before. I made an image in JG scale (cos it's easy and I'm lazy) to demonstrate what I would like it to look like:

1972 AA-12 stock on Fishermann's suggestion. Chambered in 7.62x54mmR fired from 35 or 100 round belts stored in box/drum (respectively) mag like containers. Uses 514mm barrel from Mosin carbines.

[Svormannhelm]

Not really. Ea90's RPK barrel in a Vepr is an exception really, most bullpup conversions just move the trigger group and put a stock on the receiver, not altering the barrel.

Yay, I'm special!
Also, Dai Han, please can you do the LMG discussed before. I made an image in JG scale (cos it's easy and I'm lazy) to demonstrate what I would like it to look like:

1972 AA-12 stock on Fishermann's suggestion. Chambered in 7.62x54mmR fired from 35 or 100 round belts stored in box/drum (respectively) mag like containers. Uses 514mm barrel from Mosin carbines.

I can do it, you know. Though you'd have to change the barrel length since I'm not good at those.

Closed bolt or open bolt? I can do both.

[Crookfur]

@Crook, so far as we're aware, these are the heaviest sniper systems and anti-armour systems he fields.
The RPG-7, we know cannot compete against modern MBTs, as both a Challenger 2 and an Abrams have been pinned in Iraq by insurgents and M/F killed, but the tanks were not destroyed and their crews unharmed. I believe it was the Abrams that took 40 RPG hits, without penetration. The RPG, so far as I'm aware, has no guided warheads, and offers only a single-stage HEAT warhead which is practically useless against ERA or standoff armour. It also has a limited range, and limited accuracy at that range. In the modern combat theatre, it's more effective as anti-infantry support than dedicated anti-tank which can go to much heavier dual-tandem (or even triple tandem, if those exist in man-portable systems) and/or guided AT systems that can engage accurately at far greater range.

The PSG1 firing 7.62 NATO is easily outclassed by a heavier sniper weapon in .308 or .338 or one of the oodles of NS armies fielding the even heavier .408 and .50 rounds as mainline sniper rounds. A .338 rifle in the hands of a God-tier sniper can score a kill at almost two and a half kilometres, well beyond its intended range. I'm not certain a 7.62NATO can actually reach that distance, let alone still have the energy to score a kill.

As for the M1911, yes it works fine and its .45 round packs a heavy punch - but it has a 7-round capacity, low range, and .45 has quite a kickback. The M9 fires a perfectly powerful 9mm round with little recoil, in a 16-round magazine. It's also, IIRC, smaller and lighter. As an all-rounder, it becomes a better weapon.

Actually he said the RPG-7 was his main missile alucnehr ina lsit of stuff that woudl all be foudn in an infantry squad, by your lien of arguement he has not tanks, trucks or heavier equipment at all.

The challenger 2 that took the 40 rpg hits also took two hits from Milan and the much vaunted RPG-29 could only penetrate challenger 2 through the "toe" plate which has since been up armoured, AT4 would't have done any better.

The RPG-7 has a huge array of warheads including the PG-7VR which is a full tandem charge design and more or less indentical to the RPG-29 warhead. Its range is limited but its effective at the ranges needed by an infantry squad. Niether of the alternatives which you suggested (and my main point is that neither are viable alternatives) have guidance options and to be honest ATGMS are a whole other ball game.

PSG-1 is chambered for .308. As i said a good .338 lapua bolt action is the ideal choice but .30cal rifles still work very very well in most situations. Very rare and very very lucky events should never be taken as a general indicator of a systems overall perfromance and anyone using special purpose long range rifles as mainline sniper rifles reallys need thier head examined or to stop wanking so hard before it falls off.

Neither solution is perfect and both do the job jsut as well why so bother argueing. The M9 is about 150g lighter but is actually slightly bigger and reputedly less comfortable to hold than the 1911.

[Crookfur]

The astronomical cost ( you are talking $10,000 plus for each kg of stuff you want to put into space)

Now now Crookfur, modern launch systems can cost as little as 2500-3000 dollars per kilogram.

Not like it really makes much difference.

Really, i though that kind of price was for the "well really should have these but nobody will invest in us" plans but as ever the more you know.

[Ea90]

Yay, I'm special!
Also, Dai Han, please can you do the LMG discussed before. I made an image in JG scale (cos it's easy and I'm lazy) to demonstrate what I would like it to look like:

1972 AA-12 stock on Fishermann's suggestion. Chambered in 7.62x54mmR fired from 35 or 100 round belts stored in box/drum (respectively) mag like containers. Uses 514mm barrel from Mosin carbines.

I can do it, you know. Though you'd have to change the barrel length since I'm not good at those.

Closed bolt or open bolt? I can do both.

Yes please. What's wrong with the barrel length?
I think probably open bolt (most MGs are, aren't they?)
Thanks in advance.

[Senestrum]

Now now Crookfur, modern launch systems can cost as little as 2500-3000 dollars per kilogram.

Not like it really makes much difference.

Really, i though that kind of price was for the "well really should have these but nobody will invest in us" plans but as ever the more you know.

The SpaceX Falcon Heavy has a projected cost of ~2200 USD per kilo at a launch rate of 4 rockets per year, which is probably a bit optimistic so I rounded up a bit. $10,000 per kilo to LEO is on the high end of launch costs anyways.

Besides, there's always Sea Dragon.
or orion

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Crookfur, you consider .338 rifles as primary sniper weapons to be wank?

Aside from a trio of DMRs, my forces have two .338 rifles, two .50 rifles (that are primarily AMRs) and a 14.5mm 'dedicated' AMR.
Though, since the majority of my nation is tundra and snowy plain, and about half of my region is desert, I could claim it's geographically doctrinal.

[Crookfur]

Crookfur, you consider .338 rifles as primary sniper weapons to be wank?

Aside from a trio of DMRs, my forces have two .338 rifles, two .50 rifles (that are primarily AMRs) and a 14.5mm 'dedicated' AMR.
Though, since the majority of my nation is tundra and snowy plain, and about half of my region is desert, I could claim it's geographically doctrinal.

Not in the slightest. As i have said twice already a .338 bolt action is the ideal choice. Special Purpose Long Range Rifles are your specially biult 2km+ jobs (ie. the 9-20mm catagory). The likes of your cheytacs etc are simply too big and heavy to be used by most main line sniper teams.

[Bajireyn]

(Image)
Updated

Caseless weapons don't need ejection ports

They need bolts, however. And I can't see a bolt working on that gun. (Korobov Bolt doesn't look like it'd fit).

Seriously, the Modular rifle you had earlier with the heat shield is badass. Why not keep on using it?

You mean this?

[Bajireyn]

Updated...again