Main Military Weapon of Your Country (Mk. IV) The Proper Un

[Spirit of Hope]

Ugh, make me catch up on like five pages of arguments and topic swaps. I am of the opinion that the Gyrojet program took too much FlAK at the time because it was a great idea dumped into the wrong platform. As most of you are aware, Gyrojets get faster further from the barrel (the opposite of booletz), and as such are unsuited for anything in the immediate threat range of 300 meters. So as Para mentions, the ideal platform is the Sniper Rifle. I'm working on a theoretical Gyrojet HMG (mostly cause itd look cool to see the rounds go faster towards the enemy over a good distance), and I wonder what the topics opinions are on this.

Replies may be slow, im on my phone.

You seam aware of the main problem of Gyrojet, the inability to work at close range targets. One thought is a HMG could get around this by putting small explosives in the round. Also a sniper or HMG used to engage targets at long ranges probably wouldn't be that bad an idea.

[Indeos]

Ugh, make me catch up on like five pages of arguments and topic swaps. I am of the opinion that the Gyrojet program took too much FlAK at the time because it was a great idea dumped into the wrong platform. As most of you are aware, Gyrojets get faster further from the barrel (the opposite of booletz), and as such are unsuited for anything in the immediate threat range of 300 meters. So as Para mentions, the ideal platform is the Sniper Rifle. I'm working on a theoretical Gyrojet HMG (mostly cause itd look cool to see the rounds go faster towards the enemy over a good distance), and I wonder what the topics opinions are on this.

Replies may be slow, im on my phone.

You seam aware of the main problem of Gyrojet, the inability to work at close range targets. One thought is a HMG could get around this by putting small explosives in the round. Also a sniper or HMG used to engage targets at long ranges probably wouldn't be that bad an idea.

That basically makes it a bolter round. Which wouldn't be bad at all.

[Spirit of Hope]

That basically makes it a bolter round. Which wouldn't be bad at all.

Which is partially where I got the idea from. Go Space Marines! Secondly they already make .50 caliber rounds with explosive tips.

[Indeos]

That basically makes it a bolter round. Which wouldn't be bad at all.

Which is partially where I got the idea from. Go Space Marines! Secondly they already make .50 caliber rounds with explosive tips.

Yeah, but IIRC you can actually justify much bigger man-portable gyrojet rounds.

[Gawdzendia]

Which is partially where I got the idea from. Go Space Marines! Secondly they already make .50 caliber rounds with explosive tips.

Yeah, but IIRC you can actually justify much bigger man-portable gyrojet rounds.

It's an advantage of the system, low initial recoil. I imagine one could even go as high as a full inch on projectile diameter before encountering serious recoil on a man portable level. As well at that size making them HE rounds is not unreasonable.

[Purpelia]

Bolter shells are not gyrojets thou. They have a pusher charge just like a RPG warhead. That charge gives them the initial velocity needed for accuracy and close in lethality. The engine is just a sustainer motor and nothing else. The two are completely different. And as shocking as this sounds I firmly believe that a bolter is the superior weapon here.

[Celtic Colonies]

The I-127
12.7mm bolt-action AMR. With several ergonomic features.
Because when you need to comfortably shoot 12.7x108mm, AOI is there for you!

Trigger group looks too far forward from the grip - unless all your users have unfeasibly long fingers?
(Maybe you intend marketing to scalie types only, in which case that may be perfectly appropriate of course.)
Vertical foregrip also looks like its meant for extremely long limbed users (same rider applies here I suppose).
Ejection port?

[Galla-]

Yeah, but IIRC you can actually justify much bigger man-portable gyrojet rounds.

It's an advantage of the system, low initial recoil. I imagine one could even go as high as a full inch on projectile diameter before encountering serious recoil on a man portable level. As well at that size making them HE rounds is not unreasonable.

I don't think a 1" gyrojet's recoil would be able to felt by the average shooter tbh.

You could probably go up to about as big as you want. Weight, and size, would become an issue before recoil does.

Bolter shells are not gyrojets thou. They have a pusher charge just like a RPG warhead. That charge gives them the initial velocity needed for accuracy and close in lethality. The engine is just a sustainer motor and nothing else. The two are completely different. And as shocking as this sounds I firmly believe that a bolter is the superior weapon here.

I can't see a bolt pistol being useful if the bolt bounces off an Ork ten feet away from you.

[Indeos]

Bolter shells are not gyrojets thou. They have a pusher charge just like a RPG warhead. That charge gives them the initial velocity needed for accuracy and close in lethality. The engine is just a sustainer motor and nothing else. The two are completely different. And as shocking as this sounds I firmly believe that a bolter is the superior weapon here.

Besides the initial charge, they're literally the exact same thing. IIRC 40k canon even states that they're a form of gyrojet weapon. In any case, they operate on virtually the same principles, and "gyrojet" doesn't preclude an initial booster charge. I think I actually mentioned it earlier. (And I know I've had this discussion before.)

It's an advantage of the system, low initial recoil. I imagine one could even go as high as a full inch on projectile diameter before encountering serious recoil on a man portable level. As well at that size making them HE rounds is not unreasonable.

I don't think a 1" gyrojet's recoil would be able to felt by the average shooter tbh.

You could probably go up to about as big as you want. Weight, and size, would become an issue before recoil does.

Bolter shells are not gyrojets thou. They have a pusher charge just like a RPG warhead. That charge gives them the initial velocity needed for accuracy and close in lethality. The engine is just a sustainer motor and nothing else. The two are completely different. And as shocking as this sounds I firmly believe that a bolter is the superior weapon here.

I can't see a bolt pistol being useful if the bolt bounces off an Ork ten feet away from you.

They don't bounce off; bolt weapons actually have the problem of overpenetration at close ranges because the explosive won't prime.

[Purpelia]

They don't bounce off; bolt weapons actually have the problem of overpenetration at close ranges because the explosive won't prime.

As far as I am concerned. Anything that goes in and out the other side is quite lethal enough.

[Galla-]

They don't bounce off; bolt weapons actually have the problem of overpenetration at close ranges because the explosive won't prime.

*whoosh*

[Indeos]

They don't bounce off; bolt weapons actually have the problem of overpenetration at close ranges because the explosive won't prime.

As far as I am concerned. Anything that goes in and out the other side is quite lethal enough.

For humans, yes, but Orkz (and basically everything that isn't IG or Eldar) can survive .5/.75-inch holes in their chests. Apparently.

[Gawdzendia]

As far as I am concerned. Anything that goes in and out the other side is quite lethal enough.

For humans, yes, but Orkz (and basically everything that isn't IG or Eldar) can survive .5/.75-inch holes in their chests. Apparently.

Their weapons also only work because they want them to, they are, as the AdMech puts it, 'mechanically impossible.' This lends credit to the idea that the Orks are the single largest psychic entity in the galaxy, but other factors prevent them from understanding, or even being aware of it.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Quick question; is it worth putting integrated ironsights on a weapon these days or have they basically been superseded by sticking a scope or holo-sight on a rail? I ask because I'm debating whether to add ironsights to my current lineart for a railgun machine pistol or just leave it with a rail for the operator to add their own sights. It seems like ironsights are already falling out of favour on today's battlefields, suggesting they'll be non-existent even as backups in NSFT and I'm as well not bothering to include them.

For reference, here's the mock-up of the gun which I did in PMG. At the moment I'm tracing it in Paint.NET to get it exactly how I want it.

(Image)

yer missin yer trigger der, boy. IRL iron sights will be around long after we're dead and gone. Here on NS though, a lot of people use native optics. Basically suped up holosites welded to the gun.

[Indeos]

For humans, yes, but Orkz (and basically everything that isn't IG or Eldar) can survive .5/.75-inch holes in their chests. Apparently.

Their weapons also only work because they want them to, they are, as the AdMech puts it, 'mechanically impossible.' This lends credit to the idea that the Orks are the single largest psychic entity in the galaxy, but other factors prevent them from understanding, or even being aware of it.

Arguably the largest; the Tyranids are pretty goddamn huge too and the Chaos Gods sorta rule everything. (I don't actually know if the combined psychic power of the Orkz could hold them off like the Emperor can.)

[Gawdzendia]

Their weapons also only work because they want them to, they are, as the AdMech puts it, 'mechanically impossible.' This lends credit to the idea that the Orks are the single largest psychic entity in the galaxy, but other factors prevent them from understanding, or even being aware of it.

Arguably the largest; the Tyranids are pretty goddamn huge too and the Chaos Gods sorta rule everything. (I don't actually know if the combined psychic power of the Orkz could hold them off like the Emperor can.)

The chaos gods are too busy being dicks to each other and Abbadon is so totally incompetent he's failed thirteen separate crusades. The 'Nids aren't all here yet (and knowing how 40k lore works, never will be).

So what's the opinion on a 1" Gyrojet HMG? If the recoil will be as low as we all suspect it might be better as a LMG.

[Indeos]

Arguably the largest; the Tyranids are pretty goddamn huge too and the Chaos Gods sorta rule everything. (I don't actually know if the combined psychic power of the Orkz could hold them off like the Emperor can.)

The chaos gods are too busy being dicks to each other and Abbadon is so totally incompetent he's failed thirteen separate crusades. The 'Nids aren't all here yet (and knowing how 40k lore works, never will be).

So what's the opinion on a 1" Gyrojet HMG? If the recoil will be as low as we all suspect it might be better as a LMG.

That doesn't mean the Orkz are more powerful; they're all trying to break into the Materium.

Go for it. I was thinking about making a 25+mm gyrojet sniper rifle a while back, I just never got around to it.

[Katzen]

Quick question; is it worth putting integrated ironsights on a weapon these days or have they basically been superseded by sticking a scope or holo-sight on a rail? I ask because I'm debating whether to add ironsights to my current lineart for a railgun machine pistol or just leave it with a rail for the operator to add their own sights. It seems like ironsights are already falling out of favour on today's battlefields, suggesting they'll be non-existent even as backups in NSFT and I'm as well not bothering to include them.

For reference, here's the mock-up of the gun which I did in PMG. At the moment I'm tracing it in Paint.NET to get it exactly how I want it.

(Image)

I would recommend putting a finger stop on the forward hand grip (like the MAGPUL AFG). You wouldn't want anyone to have their finger slide up over the muzzle.

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG411/88

[Samozaryadnyastan]

I wouldn't personally regard an adapted rifle as a true light machine gun, that is a squad automatic weapon. While there's usually little if any difference between those terms, I like to make the distinction. A 'true' light machine gun in my eyes is a purpose built, belt fed support weapon, such as the PKP, M249 et al. Weapons like this fall under all three of my currently existing SAWs, and are in a similar vein to the IAR-27, RPK and similar.

I see. On what level should SAW's be replaced with LMG'S?

Well, SAWs are very good in their own right. There is after all a reason why the RPK has served over the Russian small arms calibre change and is still in use today, and also why the USMC wishes to replace some of their 'dedicated' LMGs with the IAR-27.
The main reason my three rifle families produce SAW variants is because they're intended to appeal to wide markets, and also simplification of logistics.

But the 'dedicated' belt-fed LMG is usually better at providing higher sustained rates of fire, since it fires from a belt of 100-200 rounds, while a SAW is magazine fed and usually limited to 30-45 rounds, or 72 if you're like me and are mental.
I'd say to place magazine-fed SAWs within the individual fireteams (where they can share magazines with riflemen's weapons), and place the LMGs as a support weapon for the squad in which that fireteam is. And then the platoon support section can take a GPMG as their machine gun. Everyone's weapon goes up a step, the further up the command chain you go.

[Gawdzendia]

I see. On what level should SAW's be replaced with LMG'S?

Well, SAWs are very good in their own right. There is after all a reason why the RPK has served over the Russian small arms calibre change and is still in use today, and also why the USMC wishes to replace some of their 'dedicated' LMGs with the IAR-27.
The main reason my three rifle families produce SAW variants is because they're intended to appeal to wide markets, and also simplification of logistics.

But the 'dedicated' belt-fed LMG is usually better at providing higher sustained rates of fire, since it fires from a belt of 100-200 rounds, while a SAW is magazine fed and usually limited to 30-45 rounds, or 72 if you're like me and are mental.
I'd say to place magazine-fed SAWs within the individual fireteams (where they can share magazines with riflemen's weapons), and place the LMGs as a support weapon for the squad in which that fireteam is. And then the platoon support section can take a GPMG as their machine gun. Everyone's weapon goes up a step, the further up the command chain you go.

So if a squad of ten splits into two fireteams of five, each of those groups of five would have a SAW, then what determines the placement of the LMG? I'll be the first to admit im not in any way knowledgeable of the levels of deployment outside of parade formations.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Nor am I, really, as you can tell from this crits discussion of my proposed platoon level structure.
Note how the platoon is about twice the size of platoons in most other armies.

However, going by the USMC system - A squad has three fireteams of four plus SSgt, each fire team would have a magazine-fed SAW and the third fireteam would either have a SAW and an LMG, or just an LMG.
Note on my platoon structure, I keep my 'squad' level elements together, not splitting them into fireteams. I also have a dedicated 'support' squad for GPMGs and DMRs, then each of the remaining infantry squads has magazine-fed SAWs.

[Sevvania]

Full Size: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6860 ... de5a_b.jpg

Revisiting my old CT-42A1 service rifle, I've further refined the concept into the CT-42A2. Semi-automatic top-ejecting 7.62x54mmR carbine and marksman rifle, respectively. The scope is mounted on the left, so as to avoid spent brass. Now featuring a twin-trigger safety.

[Spirit of Hope]

(Image)
Full Size: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6860 ... de5a_b.jpg

Revisiting my old CT-42A1 service rifle, I've further refined the concept into the CT-42A2. Semi-automatic top-ejecting 7.62x54mmR carbine and marksman rifle, respectively. The scope is mounted on the left, so as to avoid spent brass. Now featuring a twin-trigger safety.

Looks good, does the top rifle have a back sight? I didn't see anything that aligns with the front sight.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

(Image)
Full Size: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6860 ... de5a_b.jpg

Revisiting my old CT-42A1 service rifle, I've further refined the concept into the CT-42A2. Semi-automatic top-ejecting 7.62x54mmR carbine and marksman rifle, respectively. The scope is mounted on the left, so as to avoid spent brass. Now featuring a twin-trigger safety.

Looks good, does the top rifle have a back sight? I didn't see anything that aligns with the front sight.

It has an AK-style rear sight at the front of the receiver.

[Sevvania]

(Image)
Full Size: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6860 ... de5a_b.jpg

Revisiting my old CT-42A1 service rifle, I've further refined the concept into the CT-42A2. Semi-automatic top-ejecting 7.62x54mmR carbine and marksman rifle, respectively. The scope is mounted on the left, so as to avoid spent brass. Now featuring a twin-trigger safety.

Looks good, does the top rifle have a back sight? I didn't see anything that aligns with the front sight.

Yeah, it's in front of the bolt, but right before the wood furniture starts. AK rear sight.