Main Military Weapon of Your Country (Mk. IV) The Proper Un

[Risen Britannia]

Possible "large pistol round" SMG using a Helical mag with a ~13inch barrel and low recoil*. Based on the SRM shotgun platform.

could this actually work?

*it has a nice long recoil spring in the stock

[Indeos]

Possible "large pistol round" SMG using a Helical mag with a ~13inch barrel and low recoil*. Based on the SRM shotgun platform.
(Image)
could this actually work?

*it has a nice long recoil spring in the stock

Seems like it to me. I'm not familiar with the SRM, though, so I don't know if it feeds stupidly or something like that.

After a quick read, make sure it has an autorotate thing. Technically speaking the SRM just uses a rotating tube-mag setup, not helical, so if you're keeping that you'll want to make it rotate on its own.

[Risen Britannia]

Possible "large pistol round" SMG using a Helical mag with a ~13inch barrel and low recoil*. Based on the SRM shotgun platform.
(Image)
could this actually work?

*it has a nice long recoil spring in the stock

Seems like it to me. I'm not familiar with the SRM, though, so I don't know if it feeds stupidly or something like that.

Its not so much the internals that are based off the SRM. Just the aesthetics.

[Indeos]

Seems like it to me. I'm not familiar with the SRM, though, so I don't know if it feeds stupidly or something like that.

Its not so much the internals that are based off the SRM. Just the aesthetics.

Ah. I'm personally not a huge fan, and I have concerns regarding reloading. It probably wouldn't be a simple process.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Does anyone know where I might be able to find dimensions of the DSA SA58 FAL bull barrels? They seem to be able to accommodate the standard FAL gas block, so they're clearly much smaller than the bull barrels I drew for my AR-1, so I probably misunderstood the point of a bull barrel.
The fact that my bull barrels couldn't accommodate the gas block is why I made my bull barrel FAL (police and civilian models) straight-pull bolt action instead of semi-automatic restricted.

However, if anyone can find these dimensions for me, that would be fantastic. Google just gets me shopping results and low resolution pictures of the barrels in the rifles, I'm afraid.

[Indeos]

Does anyone know where I might be able to find dimensions of the DSA SA58 FAL bull barrels? They seem to be able to accommodate the standard FAL gas block, so they're clearly much smaller than the bull barrels I drew for my AR-1, so I probably misunderstood the point of a bull barrel.
The fact that my bull barrels couldn't accommodate the gas block is why I made my bull barrel FAL (police and civilian models) straight-pull bolt action instead of semi-automatic restricted.

However, if anyone can find these dimensions for me, that would be fantastic. Google just gets me shopping results and low resolution pictures of the barrels in the rifles, I'm afraid.

Bull=heavy, correct? As far as I know they use the same metric dimensions as the original FAL.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Does anyone know where I might be able to find dimensions of the DSA SA58 FAL bull barrels? They seem to be able to accommodate the standard FAL gas block, so they're clearly much smaller than the bull barrels I drew for my AR-1, so I probably misunderstood the point of a bull barrel.
The fact that my bull barrels couldn't accommodate the gas block is why I made my bull barrel FAL (police and civilian models) straight-pull bolt action instead of semi-automatic restricted.

However, if anyone can find these dimensions for me, that would be fantastic. Google just gets me shopping results and low resolution pictures of the barrels in the rifles, I'm afraid.

Bull=heavy, correct? As far as I know they use the same metric dimensions as the original FAL.

I believe a bull barrel is the same external diameter along its entire length, rather than having a bulged chamber and tapered barrel.
However, the FAL bull barrel sold by DSA is clearly not the same external diameter as the FAL's standard barrel chamber external diameter.
Or, my definition of bull barrel is incorrect, and they do taper, just significantly less than a standard barrel.

So yes, a bull barrel would indeed be a form of HBAR.

[Indeos]

Bull=heavy, correct? As far as I know they use the same metric dimensions as the original FAL.

I believe a bull barrel is the same external diameter along its entire length, rather than having a bulged chamber and tapered barrel.
However, the FAL bull barrel sold by DSA is clearly not the same external diameter as the FAL's standard barrel chamber external diameter.
Or, my definition of bull barrel is incorrect, and they do taper, just significantly less than a standard barrel.

So yes, a bull barrel would indeed be a form of HBAR.

Something I read in Jane's said DSA used standard FAL measurements for the barrel you're referring to, if that's any clearer. So maybe you can find those easier.

[Risen Britannia]

Its not so much the internals that are based off the SRM. Just the aesthetics.

Ah. I'm personally not a huge fan, and I have concerns regarding reloading. It probably wouldn't be a simple process.

it shouldn't be a problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xP20#t=42s
changing the mag is between 40s-55s

[Indeos]

Ah. I'm personally not a huge fan, and I have concerns regarding reloading. It probably wouldn't be a simple process.

it shouldn't be a problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xP20#t=42s
changing the mag is between 40s-55s

I figured the SRM had a fixed mag. That concern's gone, then. Any idea what the unloaded magazine weight is?

[Indeos]

Ah. I'm personally not a huge fan, and I have concerns regarding reloading. It probably wouldn't be a simple process.

it shouldn't be a problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xP20#t=42s
changing the mag is between 40s-55s

I figured the SRM had a fixed mag. That concern's gone, then. Any idea what the unloaded magazine weight is?

[Risen Britannia]

i dont know the mag weight. But the 12round version unloaded is ~3kilograms


EDIT: I'm thinking maybe ".45 Winchester Magnum" for my SMG

[Moribundustan]

Moribundustan Combined Field Force Command Basic Equipment Guide

Service Rifle: FN-FAL 50.61 [1], [2]
Militia Rifle: FN 49, Argentine Modification [1]

Field Sniper System: M21 Sniper Weapon System
HRT Sniper System: L115A3

Handgun: Mk23 Mod 0 [3]

Tactical Shotgun: AA-12
Military Police Shotgun: Remington 870

SMG: MAC-10 [3]

GPGM: M60E4
HMG: M2HB

60mm Mortar: M6C-210
81mm Mortar: L16
120mm Mortar: Soltam K6

MLRS: LAR-160

Moribundustani Special Armed Services: MSAS deploys whatever arms and equipment is requested by Troops and Squadrons that is available, per classified request for Open Equipment Purchase Orders.

[1] May be fitted with an M203 Grenade Launcher
[2] Capable of launching all types of 22mm rifle grenades
[3] Issued in .45 ACP

[Indeos]

Moribundustan Combined Field Force Command Basic Equipment Guide

Service Rifle: FN-FAL 50.61 [1], [2]
Militia Rifle: FN 49, Argentine Modification [1]

Field Sniper System: M21 Sniper Weapon System
HRT Sniper System: L115A3

Handgun: Mk23 Mod 0 [3]

Tactical Shotgun: AA-12
Military Police Shotgun: Remington 870

SMG: MAC-10 [3]

GPGM: M60E4
HMG: M2HB

60mm Mortar: M6C-210
81mm Mortar: L16
120mm Mortar: Soltam K6

MLRS: LAR-160

Moribundustani Special Armed Services: MSAS deploys whatever arms and equipment is requested by Troops and Squadrons that is available, per classified request for Open Equipment Purchase Orders.

[1] May be fitted with an M203 Grenade Launcher
[2] Capable of launching all types of 22mm rifle grenades
[3] Issued in .45 ACP

I'm pretty sure the FN 49 can't mount an M203, and I have no idea why your militia isn't getting FALs if you can afford modern equipment everywhere else.

[Moribundustan]

I'm pretty sure the FN 49 can't mount an M203, and I have no idea why your militia isn't getting FALs if you can afford modern equipment everywhere else.

The FN49/M203 was a fluke/typo - that should have been a rifle grenade note, instead.

On the 'militia rifle', I went back and forth over that for a while. Ultimately, dropping it in favor of the FAL might be a better idea, after all....

[Indeos]

I'm pretty sure the FN 49 can't mount an M203, and I have no idea why your militia isn't getting FALs if you can afford modern equipment everywhere else.

The FN49/M203 was a fluke/typo - that should have been a rifle grenade note, instead.

On the 'militia rifle', I went back and forth over that for a while. Ultimately, dropping it in favor of the FAL might be a better idea, after all....

It might make more sense, given that you don't seem to be playing a nation that can't afford to equip the military well. I'd keep it in ceremonial roles like the US military does with the M14, though. (It might be the M1 Garand that I'm thinking of, actually. Either way, it's used for ceremonial stuff.)

[Spreewerke]

Gotta catch up on the past two days!


Beretta 92FS I borrowed my uncle's about a year or so ago. It had no rust on it and he's owned it since the 1980s. It has been an "everywhere" pistol: rain, snow, mud, M&Ms in the truck seat, sock drawer, you name it. No rust whatsoever. The only cosmetic flaw to it? The white dots on the sights faded a tiny bit, so I touched them up with liquid paper and a toothpick. Accuracy? It's killed a coyote with one shot at ~45m.

Your government M9 is just that: government. It's reused, user to user. I've heard people talk about their M9s failing in training where the slide breaks, detaches from the frame in rearward travel, and hits the user in the face. Common? No: I've only heard of it happened two or three times. As for the 92FS, it has had zero problems and it strips in about five seconds (yay for using the P38 construction!). I've found it to be nothing but accurate, comfortable, and capable of about anything I could throw its way. Also note that this pistol is not government recycled. My second-cousin was issued a 1911 in the 1970s and he said he could rattle the slide horribly just by tilting the gun side to side. He then returned it to the armory and replaced it with a self-purchased Colt Trooper II (which he stills owns: it's pretty nice). He now owns a Remington R1 1911 and it's one of the slickest 1911s I've ever seen. Government weapons are mass produced and experience thousands of rounds in a short amount of time. Civilian weapons not so much. The 92FS I handled was probably one of the most accurate handguns I've fired.

=============================================
GLOCK Screw 'em.

=============================================
5.7 suppressed?! Someone mentioned "low velocity" and something else that the post reviews at the bottom of this reply do not go back far enough to see (cycling?)

Basically, you want low velocity in a suppressed weapon: if it fires sub-sonic, it does not produce a sonic boom when it breaks the sound barrier. Therefore, there is no loud report and, with a suppressor, the vast majority of the sound is, well, suppressed. As for it cycling? Light-weight slides, "low-power" springs. Problem solved.

[Indeos]

Gotta catch up on the past two days!


Beretta 92FS I borrowed my uncle's about a year or so ago. It had no rust on it and he's owned it since the 1980s. It has been an "everywhere" pistol: rain, snow, mud, M&Ms in the truck seat, sock drawer, you name it. No rust whatsoever. The only cosmetic flaw to it? The white dots on the sights faded a tiny bit, so I touched them up with liquid paper and a toothpick. Accuracy? It's killed a coyote with one shot at ~45m.

Your government M9 is just that: government. It's reused, user to user. I've heard people talk about their M9s failing in training where the slide breaks, detaches from the frame in rearward travel, and hits the user in the face. Common? No: I've only heard of it happened two or three times. As for the 92FS, it has had zero problems and it strips in about five seconds (yay for using the P38 construction!). I've found it to be nothing but accurate, comfortable, and capable of about anything I could throw its way. Also note that this pistol is not government recycled. My second-cousin was issued a 1911 in the 1970s and he said he could rattle the slide horribly just by tilting the gun side to side. He then returned it to the armory and replaced it with a self-purchased Colt Trooper II (which he stills owns: it's pretty nice). He now owns a Remington R1 1911 and it's one of the slickest 1911s I've ever seen. Government weapons are mass produced and experience thousands of rounds in a short amount of time. Civilian weapons not so much. The 92FS I handled was probably one of the most accurate handguns I've fired.

=============================================
GLOCK Screw 'em.

=============================================
5.7 suppressed?! Someone mentioned "low velocity" and something else that the post reviews at the bottom of this reply do not go back far enough to see (cycling?)

Basically, you want low velocity in a suppressed weapon: if it fires sub-sonic, it does not produce a sonic boom when it breaks the sound barrier. Therefore, there is no loud report and, with a suppressor, the vast majority of the sound is, well, suppressed. As for it cycling? Light-weight slides, "low-power" springs. Problem solved.

Why all the Glock hate?

[Graditora]

The FN49/M203 was a fluke/typo - that should have been a rifle grenade note, instead.

On the 'militia rifle', I went back and forth over that for a while. Ultimately, dropping it in favor of the FAL might be a better idea, after all....

It might make more sense, given that you don't seem to be playing a nation that can't afford to equip the military well. I'd keep it in ceremonial roles like the US military does with the M14, though. (It might be the M1 Garand that I'm thinking of, actually. Either way, it's used for ceremonial stuff.)

M1 Garands are used for ceremonies and so are M14's you are correct. I knew that Garands are used for sure cause my dads in the color guard and I watched him practice all the time before he went blind.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

kersnippity

Why all the Glock hate?

I just hate them on personal preference.

[Indeos]

Why all the Glock hate?

I just hate them on personal preference.

I wasn't asking you, unless you're also Spreewerke. And I'm pretty sure you're not.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

I just hate them on personal preference.

I wasn't asking you, unless you're also Spreewerke. And I'm pretty sure you're not.

Just putting my two cents in, Mr. Cranky.

[Indeos]

I wasn't asking you, unless you're also Spreewerke. And I'm pretty sure you're not.

Just putting my two cents in, Mr. Cranky.

I'm not cranky, I'm just not interested. I asked because I wanted to hear what Spreewerke had to say; I know he shoots a lot of guns and an inexperienced friend of mine also isn't fond of Glocks, so I'm curious as to whether they'll have similar complaints. And if it's a personal thing or an actual flaw with Glocks.

[Spreewerke]

The most prominent reason I dislike them is the in-trigger safety. It's totally redundant. Excuse the profanities I'm about to lay down: GLOCK does that to me.

• "Oh, but that's so the gun never fires until you pull the trigger!"
  No fucking shit? You mean it was designed like every other pistol ever created? Holy shit, no way. I mean, the reason that pistols that also fire when you pull the trigger have manual safeties is just because they're squares, right? It isn't so you can't accidentally snag the trigger and be safe from a discharge, of course not. That never happens. Ever. Not while drawing from a holster, not while going through brush, not while keeping it in a vehicle....
  
  Seriously, GLOCK people: every modern pistol in the history of ever has fired when you pull the damned trigger. They just realized that, "Hey! Maybe we should add a safety in case someone gets careless!"
  -----Now, military and police (and a fair number of civilians)? They train with their pistols all the time. A safety for them consists of an index finger and proper discipline. That guy who figured $500 for a GLOCK 17 could be used for a "never shoot it until I have to" nightstand gun? He consists of a fair number of firearm purchasers. He also just increased his chances for an ND by never having trained with his new GLOCK ever.
  
  The guy who's never touched a gun before and went with GLOCK because they're awesomesauce? Same as above: great lack of experience, therefore more prone to an ND.
  
  I'm not saying everyone is retarded, no: only the majority of society is (or so it seems when you work retail: it's a joke). Have people experienced negligent discharges with a firearm that had a safety? Yep. This guy has had exactly one.
  
  I have also noticed that I let a far from gun savvy friend of mine look at my Makarov. I handed it to them and said, "Careful, it's loaded." Next thing I know, they're aiming it at other people in the room, finger on the trigger, practicing their aim. After a "What the fuck, are you stupid?!" and a weapons' retrieval, I told them just how idiotic that was even if "the safety was on, though!"

• IT CAN SURVIVE A DROP FROM A ROFLCOPTER AND 200 MILES PER HOUR AND LAND ON CONCRETE AND STILL SHOOT!!!!!111!11one!
  -----That's cool. The last time I flew in a helicopter at skyscraper levels over concrete was... never.

• It has a consistent trigger pull every time!
  -----Just like single actions: I love single actions. Even on my double-actions I cock the hammer back before the first shot. Pretty consistent and has less of a trigger pull than the GLOCK does.

• It's got a polymer frame, so it can't rust!
  -----Well, hate to break this to you, but basically everything else on it is metal and you'll still have to oil that down. If I'm cleaning the other 90% of the firearm, oiling the frame really isn't a chore whatsoever.

• The polymer makes it lighter!
  -----This I can understand. Considering my primary carry handgun is a Makarov, well: all steel, about the same weight as a GLOCK. As big of a caliber? No. As big of a gun in general? No. Chances are, however, if I'm switching to my Mak, it's because my SGL 21-94 either ran dry or malfunctioned. Lately I've been packing a rifle more than a handgun.

• It comes from Austria!
  -----Just like Hitler.

• It isn't too expensive!
  -----Okay. This is also why they experience the most NDs of any handgun I currently know of. It used to be the 1911 when it was all the rage. Now that the GLOCK is more obtainable by inexperience owners, the chances of a GLOCK being involved in an ND is raised. Is this necessarily GLOCK's fault? No, I will admit that. However, the in-trigger safety probably doesn't help. I hate that so hard.

• It's field-strip is as easy as having inconsequential intercourse with a 36C-24-34!
  -----That's cool. The P38 field-strips into three parts in about three seconds. It was also designed in the 1930s.

• It's so easy to customize!
  -----As is pretty much anything else anymore thanks to the interwebs and people with gumption to do things. Are GLOCK parts easier to get? Yeah, thank your law enforcement agencies. Then again, 1911, CZ, SIG, and HK parts are floating around, too, and not in that small of numbers.

• They're super reliable!
  -----I've never had a malfunction that I can remember with any of my handguns (aside from the TP25: if you don't hold it a certain way, it will literally release the slide from the frame -- I bought it for $40, so I can't complain). What are these SUPER RELIABLE handguns of mine? Must be GLOCKs, eh? No. One's a Spreewerke P38 from 1943, one is a High Standard 1911 from 2010 (I think? Maybe 2009), and the other is a Makarov from the 1980s. No malfunctions even though they've been around blood, guts, dirt, and mud. 'Merica (and Germany and Bulgaria...)

• They make my pee-pee happy.
  -----My P38 does that, too. I understand how you feel.

My hate is not the only thing I have for GLOCKs, though. I have fired one before: G22 like what the police use. It's the full-sized .40S&W model. Was it accurate? Yes. Go bang every time? Yes. Easy to use? Yes. It was accurate, balanced well, and generally felt alright in the hands. However, I find GLOCKs to be an insanely redundant design. I do not find them any better than any other handgun I have ever handled. The fact their safety is pretty much non-existent makes them a downgrade from anything else I've ever handled. I've had things snag trigger guards before: a GLOCK is the last thing I want in that situation.

I prefer all-metal models simply due to the recoil negation granted by the extra weight. I prefer exposed hammers so I can make the choice of DA or SA (it's a given if it's SA only, of course) and because I like being able to drop the hammer as an added 'safety.' I have no problem with all of my handguns having less than ten rounds of ammunition at the most (that's using eight-round mags and one in the pipe). Everything I've shot with a handgun has never required more than two shots (exception being a Daewoo DP51 that was literally inaccurate at 15 feet: ammunition switch changed this problem, however).

Customization? The only thing I've customized so far has been my Daewoo DR200 and that's because I couldn't physically use the iron sights with the stock the previous owner had installed. Therefore: red dot sight. That is it besides the necessary 922r parts. My Arsenal is going to be the only thing I customize out of "want" rather than necessity: it has a Ultimak rail and off-set flashlight in its future. Yes... yes it does... Let's not forget the VTAC sling I've been eyeballing. Regardless: I've never had the need to upgrade any of my handguns. Granted, they're all old military designs, they have served their purposes extremely well. I am no SWAT member.

Can my 1911 survive a helicopter drop? I don't know, but it can survive a drop of three feet onto gravel with one in the chamber, hammer back. How do I know this? Fell out of my vehicle. That's probably the farthest it will ever fall. Didn't even scratch the finish.

Does the lack of a safety (that's what I consider it, anyway) on the GLOCK mean faster shooting times in terms of reaction? Doubt it. If you incorporate safety disengagement in your draw, you pretty much end up with the same times regardless: it isn't just "pull, point, shoot." You need to aim to hit your target. During the time you're bringing the pistol up, Mr. Safety can be given flick into the "off" position.

I've never found the GLOCK to be astounding in any aspect whatsoever. At least not anymore than any other firearms I've handled in my lifetime. The fact they lack a useful safety also makes them the Martin Lawrence of my firearms preferences: the Devil.

[Galla-]

CZ 52 <3